Wedge Gapping

[ShortGameSavesLies]

I fit into new irons this year (2023 Cobra Aerojet). I was aware the lofts were very strong (41.5 deg PW), but it created a huge gap between the PW and 50. Should I add another wedge or bend the PW weak and the 50 strong? Ideally I get this yardage gap cut in half, or close. 

 

 

For reference:

9.8 hcp

Carry yardages

PW: 115-120

50: 95-100

Thinking 43.5 (or as far as they can bend it) and 49. 

Thanks in advance.

[NM01]

Go hit a bunch of wedges and see what distances you get. A certain loft number may or may not get you the distance you need.

Bending a wedge also changes the bounce so you have to consider that change as well. It’s 1:1 relationship. Every degree stronger reduces bounce by the same. Vice versa for going weak

[Josh Parker]

1 hour ago, ShortGameSavesLies said:

I fit into new irons this year (2023 Cobra Aerojet). I was aware the lofts were very strong (41.5 deg PW), but it created a huge gap between the PW and 50. Should I add another wedge or bend the PW weak and the 50 strong? Ideally I get this yardage gap cut in half, or close. 

 

 

For reference:

9.8 hcp

Carry yardages

PW: 115-120

50: 95-100

Thinking 43.5 (or as far as they can bend it) and 49. 

Thanks in advance.

You could add a 46* wedge and split the difference. 

[Hacker60521]

@ShortGameSavesLies not sure what else is in your bag or the distances between the clubs. But I’d rather add a another wedge to get the right gapping than bending the PW.

[ShortGameSavesLies]

14 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

@ShortGameSavesLies not sure what else is in your bag or the distances between the clubs. But I’d rather add a another wedge to get the right gapping than bending the PW.

I should have just added the whole WITB.

Driver,3w,5w,3h,4i-pw, 50/54/58, putter

5w, 3h, 4i rotate through the bag depending on conditions and the course. I'm struggling with the thought of another wedge because the PW isn't really a PW with the way it's lofted.

Carry yardages:

D 250-260, 3w 230-240, 5w 210-220,  3h 195-205, 5i - 185-190, 6i 170-175, 7i 160-170, 8i, 150-155, 9i 130-140, PW 115-120, 50 95-100, 54 85-90, 58 75-80

Edited July 22 by ShortGameSavesLies

[Hacker60521]

@ShortGameSavesLies maybe instead of a 50 consider a 48?  My PW is 43 degrees so I play PW, 48, 54, 58

[Wolfstrum]

9 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

You could add a 46* wedge and split the difference. 

This was my first thought as well.

[cnosil]

13 hours ago, ShortGameSavesLies said:

Carry yardages:

D 250-260, 3w 230-240, 5w 210-220,  3h 195-205, 5i - 185-190, 6i 170-175, 7i 160-170, 8i, 150-155, 9i 130-140, PW 115-120, 50 95-100, 54 85-90, 58 75-80

Why aren’t you concerned about the gap between the 8 and 9; it is basically the same as your PW and 50?   I’d probably try delofting the 50 to get another 5 yards but that starts to create a big gap between 50 and 54.   Might just be something you have to manage with swing.  

[ShortGameSavesLies]

43 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Why aren’t you concerned about the gap between the 8 and 9; it is basically the same as your PW and 50?   I’d probably try delofting the 50 to get another 5 yards but that starts to create a big gap between 50 and 54.   Might just be something you have to manage with the swing. 

It's not that I'm not concerned about it, it's just lower priority because the 50 and PW are my most used scoring clubs. I *can* absolutely manage the swing for yardage, I'm just exploring how to bridge that 8.5 degree gap first.

[OssiansFolly]

How sure are you on your distances? I just have trouble with seeing your top end and bottom end distances and knowing mine. I know irons are tough because nobody follows a consistent numbering, but I hit a 7w what you hit a 5w, my 5h what you hit a 3h, and my wedges are 48/52/56 with average full swing carries of 110/100/90. I can drop down on any wedge with less swing so I don't have concerns that my PW averages 120 because I know if I need to drop something in 110-120 that I'll just take an inch down the grip to account for the difference. I'm not a huge fan of changing clubs a bunch because it just causes problems over thinking and adjusting. I'm always used the same wedges because those are like you said the scoring clubs that need to be consistent.

[NM01]

On 7/23/2024 at 9:26 AM, ShortGameSavesLies said:

It's not that I'm not concerned about it, it's just lower priority because the 50 and PW are my most used scoring clubs. I *can* absolutely manage the swing for yardage, I'm just exploring how to bridge that 8.5 degree gap first.

One option without changing lofts or adding a club is to learn to flight your scoring irons to hit different shot trajectories and distances. Learning that less than full swings with scoring clubs is needed to be a better golfer 

[ShortGameSavesLies]

2 hours ago, OssiansFolly said:

How sure are you on your distances? I just have trouble with seeing your top end and bottom end distances and knowing mine. I know irons are tough because nobody follows a consistent numbering, but I hit a 7w what you hit a 5w, my 5h what you hit a 3h, and my wedges are 48/52/56 with average full swing carries of 110/100/90. I can drop down on any wedge with less swing so I don't have concerns that my PW averages 120 because I know if I need to drop something in 110-120 that I'll just take an inch down the grip to account for the difference. I'm not a huge fan of changing clubs a bunch because it just causes problems over thinking and adjusting. I'm always used the same wedges because those are like you said the scoring clubs that need to be consistent.

With irons and wedges, especially the the low end, very confident right now. It's worth noting that I've been working with a new pro, rebuilding my swing from the ground up since the beginning of June.  Yardages are changing quickly as I continue to put in the work. D-3h can basically be ignored right now as they're lower priority and I haven't put in much work on the long end since the rebuilding process started. 

 

Edited July 25 by ShortGameSavesLies

[Hacker60521]

37 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

One option without changing lofts or adding a club is to learn to flight your scoring irons to hit different shot trajectories and distances. Learning that less than full swings with scoring clubs is needed to be a better golfer 

@RickyBobby_PR this is great advice. I’ll admit I’m guilty of always trying to have my next shot get it as close to the pin as possible. But I recently read that Jack Nicklaus would often set up his shots so that his approach shot was at his most comfortable distance and not necessarily as close as possible. 

[NM01]

6 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

@RickyBobby_PR this is great advice. I’ll admit I’m guilty of always trying to have my next shot get it as close to the pin as possible. But I recently read that Jack Nicklaus would often set up his shots so that his approach shot was at his most comfortable distance and not necessarily as close as possible. 

So that mentality has kind of changed thanks to strokes gained data.

Some still play to a number or to avoid a number. I’ve seen an interview from meandmygolf with DJ and he said he hates 50 yard wedge shots and prefers a 90 yard shot. But the numbers don’t lie that from closer to the hole gets one a better proximity to the hole number 

 But learning that hitting a full speed pw isn’t always the best option as an example for whatever one’s pw distance is. Pin location, what the green is like from a design standpoint with tiers, speed, firmness angle into the green, lie all come into play for determining the type of shot. Controlling spin is important

Edited July 25 by RickyBobby_PR

[Hacker60521]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

So that mentality has kind of changed thanks to strokes gained data.

Some still play to a number or to avoid a number. I’ve seen an interview from meandmygolf with DJ and he said he hates 50 yard wedge shots and prefers a 90 yard shot. But the numbers don’t lie that from closer to the hole gets one a better proximity to the hole number 

I think when you look at large data sets and averages, I’d agree closer is better. But if we look at each player the data might be different. I feel more comfortable with 50 yard wedge over a 25 yard shot. That’s just me 

[NM01]

3 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

I think when you look at large data sets and averages, I’d agree closer is better. But if we look at each player the data might be different. I feel more comfortable with 50 yard wedge over a 25 yard shot. That’s just me 

Like i said there are distances that people are comfortable with including the pros. There is also course management that goes into decision making which people don’t consider when they read people saying closer is better. So one has to take into consideration a lot of factors including what I mentioned about pin location, angle into the green and so on

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

I think when you look at large data sets and averages, I’d agree closer is better. But if we look at each player the data might be different. I feel more comfortable with 50 yard wedge over a 25 yard shot. That’s just me 

Sure, if a player chunks or thins let’s say 80% of their shots from a particular distance then yes try to avoid that distance and practice that distance to get better.   
 

laying up to a distance is an extremely difficult task as we don’t hit shots exact distance due to ball contact and rollout variations so your goal of hitting to 50 may end up at 25.   

[ShortGameSavesLies]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

One option without changing lofts or adding a club is to learn to flight your scoring irons to hit different shot trajectories and distances. Learning that less than full swings with scoring clubs is needed to be a better golfer 

I'm starting to get a good handle on that in the low end with some consistency. I guess my thought process was getting all full swing gaps ironed out first and work backwards from there. My short game is actually pretty good - I'm going through a significant swing change currently (where I've gained a ton of consistency and additional distance, and am improving pretty rapidly). I'm lucky. I have a range a mile from my house and the owner no longer allows me to pay for balls.. So I practice almost daily. 

[NM01]

9 minutes ago, ShortGameSavesLies said:

I'm starting to get a good handle on that in the low end with some consistency. I guess my thought process was getting all full swing gaps ironed out first and work backwards from there. My short game is actually pretty good - I'm going through a significant swing change currently (where I've gained a ton of consistency and additional distance, and am improving pretty rapidly). I'm lucky. I have a range a mile from my house and the owner no longer allows me to pay for balls.. So I practice almost daily. 

That makes sense and I’m all for proper gapping and I prefer to base gapping off my 9i based on fittings and information from titleist for gapping.

Ive also changed my approach about what full swing means with scoring irons. It’s a shorter swing than with longer mid-long irons. So example in most 7i I can probably get 165 maybe a hair more of an all out swing. But I rarely do that. My swing with the 7i isn’t as long and my distance is closer to 155ish carry for normal swing and can drop down to 135-140 if needed.

Which comes in handy when I take my miura cb301s out. I have then tw wedges in that bag. I go from 46° pw to 50° to 56° and keep a vokey 60° just in case I need it.

Being able to hit the 9,pw and 50 with different speeds and swing length as well as choking down some gives me several distance options

[Hacker60521]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Like i said there are distances that people are comfortable with including the pros. There is also course management that goes into decision making which people don’t consider when they read people saying closer is better. So one has to take into consideration a lot of factors including what I mentioned about pin location, angle into the green and so on

@RickyBobby_PR sorry I didn’t see your second paragraph when I posted my reply. I was just focused on the “closer is better” paragraph. that course management matters. 

[OssiansFolly]

2 hours ago, ShortGameSavesLies said:

With irons and wedges, especially the the low end, very confident right now. It's worth noting that I've been working with a new pro, rebuilding my swing from the ground up since the beginning of June.  Yardages are changing quickly as I continue to put in the work. D-3h can basically be ignored right now as they're lower priority and I haven't put in much work on the long end since the rebuilding process started. 

 

If you're working with someone then I wouldn't change anything with clubs. Finish the swing adjustments and lessons. For now, go hit shots where you just choke up on the PW. Either take pictures or make a mark on the grip to keep you consistent. Just use that to knock down into that gap until the swing changes settle.