Club fitting is a scam!

Louis_Posture · October 9

1) 90% of golfers shoot 90 or worse and don't know what they're doing with their swing or equipment, so that equals a vulnerable consumer

2) fitters have a customer swing a dozen 6-irons in a row or a dozen consecutive driver shots, which is nothing at all like playing a golf course where a player may have 30 minutes or more in between driver swings

3) on the course a player may swing driver then wedge then putter then 7-iron then play a chip shot then putter then 3-wood then 8-iron then bunker shot etc... and a fitting does not simulate this process of alternating clubs-swings

4) on the course a player faces uphill lies, sidehill lies, downhill lies, lies within the rough, hardpan lies, fairway bunker lies etc... and a fitting does not simulate any of these various lie types.

5) on the course a player may play full, 3/4, half shots, low punch shots, higher trajectory shots, fades, draws etc... and a fitting does not provide the environment to play this range of shot types.

6) on the course a player faces into the wind , downwind, cross wind etc... shots, but a fitting does not simulate any of these various wind conditions

7) company employees assigned to fit consumers and independent fitters both tell me their goal is not to teach swing technique or improve the customer's scoring average, but only to try and marginally improve the customer's shots; for example reduce a bad driver shot from 30 yards off line to 25 yards off line.

So, I believe club fitting is a scam, a marketing strategy aimed at selling fitting-service-fees and, or selling equipment. That said, if a customer enjoys the experience of being fitted for clubs, has fun doing it, I can respect and appreciate the value of that.

mynerds · October 9

I think this dead horse has been beaten before somewhat recently in another thread so I won’t venture too far into the mud here.

I suspect you have either had poor fitting experiences in the past, or may be judging the fittings on some ill-conceived notions. In either case, I hope you find a competent fitter someday and reap the benefits it can provide.

GolfSpy_APH · October 9

Given how the consistency in my game has improved since being properly fit for my clubs I'm going to wholly disagree.

Not only do I wish I had done it sooner, but going to add how much money it would she saved me from the endless cycle of buying something new that I think would have been a better fit.

Done properly fittings are crucial tools to helping golfers improve their games and get them into the proper equipment for them and their games.

cody81 · October 9

Optimizing performance by finding the right shaft/loft/lie etc. is right for you can possibly be a scam. An unqualified fitter can inadvertently "rip you off" if he/she doesn't know what they're doing. If you've ever swapped shafts out of demo club at a box store you know that the performance of the club varies wildly based on just that.

Golfspy_CG2 · October 9

Wow, i’ll take the approach of @mynerds and say you’re entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

SBH93458 · October 9

My experiences have varied based on 1) my own golf “shape” and 2) the capabilities of the person who is the “fitter.” Getting fit in February where I live is in the dead of winter with limited swings and golf being played… hard for any fitter to fit a person without a swing. And, if the fitter isn’t into the gig, and is less of a gear head than I am, it is hard for them to optimize something for me. But… getting a fitting when your swing is in good shape by a person who knows what they’re doing and likes the process can yield excellent results that can save you a lot of cash by getting it right the first time.

mikeva · October 9

I am not sure I understand the strength of your concerns.

1) I don't see where trying to fit a club for various swings is realistic - your points 3,4,5 and 6. If the club specifications were different for each of those activities, you can not carry that many clubs in your bag.

2) Taking 30 minutes between swings would take more time for a fitting that I could handle, and the time involved would be costly for me and the fitter.

3) I don't really expect a fitter to fine-tune my swing as that is not he purpose of this engagement. If the clubs I am trying are improving my normal results, then I am interested.

I have never taken the opportunity to pay for a non-vendor specific fitting, which I would expect would be quite detailed and intensive. I have had vendor based fittings from PXG, Callaway, and Titleist. Those fitting were pretty much what I expected - could they find one of their clubs that outperforms my current one. They tried a couple of their specific lines and maybe one or two shafts and that was the extent of the tuning. I knew that their objective was to show me an improvement (no matter how small) in their branded club so I would switch.

In summary, my view of a fitting is to see if there is a club and shaft combination that is better than what I am currently playing as measured by a comparison between my current club and the new candidate. I don't really expect the ability to fit me for the optimal club and shaft combination for ANY shot I may need to execute during a round.

LWD · October 9

Getting fit for your new club(s) is definitely the way to go, but it has to be done right. Going to a big box specialty store and working with someone a few minutes, while you hit the driver you picked out, isn't the same as going to a fitter who is there to spend quality time with you.

My big box experience in a hitting bay has been poor. MAYBE they'll recommend a more flexible shaft of a loft change, but not much more. I've bought more drivers that didn't work out than I care to admit.

My best fitting experience was at the PXG location in Houston, about an hour from my home. I'd been fit by a major brand at our driving range, and it wasn't much better than the big box experience. At PXG, I tried multiple shafts with different weights and flexes, different lengths and of course different lofts on the driver heads. I ended up with a lightweight shaft, 0.5" shorter than "normal" and a much higher loft (14*) due to my angle of attack. I'm now longer and MUCH straighter than I was with my fairly new driver that had been fit by the major brand on my club's driving range.

I went back to PXG for my irons. I tried both Gen 5 and Gen 6 irons, and ended up with the Gen 6 311XP's, with an upgraded shaft, albeit shafts that didn't carry the price tag of the driver's shaft! These irons are amazing. I credit getting fit for my much improved game.

The key is finding a fitter that will take their time in finding what works for your swing. Don't give me a lesson, look at my swing and use data to show why a particular setup works for me. As a consumer, don't hesitate to set price limits. You have a $500 shaft option? For me, no thanks. But a $200 shaft upgrade for a driver might be worth it. For someone else, it might not be worth it. That's OK.
Go with a specific goal in mind, don't kid yourself as to your expectations, and feel free to think about it if you're not sure.

Josh Parker · October 9

19 minutes ago, SBH93458 said:

My experiences have varied based on 1) my own golf “shape” and 2) the capabilities of the person who is the “fitter.” Getting fit in February where I live is in the dead of winter with limited swings and golf being played… hard for any fitter to fit a person without a swing. And, if the fitter isn’t into the gig, and is less of a gear head than I am, it is hard for them to optimize something for me. But… getting a fitting when your swing is in good shape by a person who knows what they’re doing and likes the process can yield excellent results that can save you a lot of cash by getting it right the first time.

You are correct, if you can't swing a club in the first place then lessons should come before a fitting.

Fittings do absolutely change the game for the better. I dropped my handicap 5 strokes with being fit into the right set up.

JohnFP · October 9

After lessons and having a consistent swing, for me, fitting to a Lie is the most important (if you are a decent golfer and have been playing for a while). I dropped my handicap by several shots once I was fitted to 2 up irons, and eliminated a lot of pushes and over fades due to the toe digging in first.

Being realistic about your game plays a big part - if you are playing blade irons and don't have the game for it, you are only hurting yourself. So put the ego aside and get the right iron (blade, better player, forgiveness)

I feel all the quality irons are similar and it becomes a question of look and taste. Same for drivers

SkinsNiblick · October 9

I would not categorize fittings as a scam as long as a few items are in check.

Assuming you have a trained and skilled fitter, a fitting will deliver meaningful results if your swing is fairly consistent. I'm not saying a perfect swing but if every swing is different then the fitting will deliver little more than providing a static fitting to get the right theoretical length, lie, flex with a suggestion for a forgiving head and advice to take some lessons.

It is important to recognize that not all “fitters” are created equal. Ask around, do your homewor. I'm not suggesting it is Club Champion or nothing as I am not fan of their “we assemble everything custom” inclination.

If cost was not a concern, or I was a scratch golfer I probably would subscribe to CC’s approach.

Edited October 9 by SkinsNiblick

bmess51 · October 9

I think the value of a club fitting depends on several factors, the knowledge and experience of the fitter, the materials at his disposal, and the expectations of the golfer. Getting fit for clubs can be a great experience. Some golfers just want to hit 3 different clubs to see which one feels better and call it a fitting. Others want to get into all the numbers and try different shafts, lofts, etc which for a player with a repeatable swing can be an eye opener. My opinion, a fitting with a knowledgeable fitter is a worthwhile experience.

kovek · October 9

This reminds me of

I've had both good and bad fittings and I can understand why people think it's useless when it's not done correctly.

I personally would approach this from a different perspective and build a list of trusted fitters, where we can post our own experiences.

Sometimes people just don't get fitted because they don't know (or trust) anyone in their area. I've been there unfortunately...

Not sure how we could create that list here, but it would help a lot of people

Lou Caracappa · October 9

I think its valuable for a driver but honestly dont see a lot of differene with irons. Got fitted for my current set of TM P790s and dont think I hit the ball any better with them vs my old set of Ping i25s

I gave the old set to my son who is not fitted for them and he crushes them, straight and at distances I could not imagine. However he could not hit my olf TM M2 and got fitted for a Callaway Paradigm and its made a lot of differene for him

MBW137 · October 9

I wouldn't say it is a scam when you trust the fitter. However, I am fully convinced the reps that show up to driving ranges with a trackman set the trackman up as if you are hitting at altitude to sell golf clubs. It is easy to go into settings and adjust elevation to show numbers as if you were playing in say, Utah. I have gone to several fittings and I gain 30-40 yards with my 3 wood or driver without a gain in ball speed or a drastic change in spin. My advice is if you do go to a range fitting pay attention to those numbers and not total distance.

kovek · October 9

Just now, Lou Caracappa said:

I think its valuable for a driver but honestly dont see a lot of differene with irons.

A fitting goes beyond suggesting clubs. It's about optimizing conditions for your swing, complexion, capacities, etc.

This could be suggesting a specific model of irons, yes, but it also includes which configuration those irons should have. E.g. loft, lie, length, shaft, ... and the most overlooked area: grips

I could talk more about how a grip size change saved my finger from surgery but that's probably for a separate post

Bob Daniel · October 9

My fitting experience has been marginally successful. I’ve returned multiple clubs that were fitted for me and kept some. I’m certain there are some really good fitters, but honestly I’ve not worked with them.

Medfloat · October 9

Disagree. Face at impact effects direction of the ball start line. If you start out your swing making compensations for one club then have to make more compensations for each and every other club, how can you swing consistently? Yes, fittings matter to include ball fittings (testing). The fitting can help reduce compensations in the swing leading to more consistency ergo more enjoyment of the game.

Braehead · October 9

That's the photo from my GT review - would have been nice if you'd asked to use it or if you included the review itself.....

RetiredBoomer · October 9

10 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

So, I believe club fitting is a scam, a marketing strategy aimed at selling fitting-service-fees and, or selling equipment. That said, if a customer enjoys the experience of being fitted for clubs, has fun doing it, I can respect and appreciate the value of that.

I think that the concept of fitting is certainly legitimate, but I question how many of the fitters are actually qualified.

If we're paying extra for fitting, the fitter should be really, really good,
and I doubt that many are in a league with the fitters like Ian Fraser that we see on YouTube.

Larry14 · October 9

Golf is very much a mental game and fitting, like lessons, new clubs or even a new pair of "golf Soaks" can make a difference. I lean towards unless your very short or very tall or have a constant swing fitting is not necessary.

Louis_Posture · October 9

2 hours ago, mikeva said:

I am not sure I understand the strength of your concerns.

If you play golf and understand the variety of lie types, weather conditions, range of distance differences among shots etc... then it should be obvious why striking the same club a dozen times or more from a perfect level lie is not a good sense method for fitting clubs.

Cfhandyman · October 9

10 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

1) 90% of golfers shoot 90 or worse and don't know what they're doing with their swing or equipment, so that equals a vulnerable consumer

2) fitters have a customer swing a dozen 6-irons in a row or a dozen consecutive driver shots, which is nothing at all like playing a golf course where a player may have 30 minutes or more in between driver swings

3) on the course a player may swing driver then wedge then putter then 7-iron then play a chip shot then putter then 3-wood then 8-iron then bunker shot etc... and a fitting does not simulate this process of alternating clubs-swings

4) on the course a player faces uphill lies, sidehill lies, downhill lies, lies within the rough, hardpan lies, fairway bunker lies etc... and a fitting does not simulate any of these various lie types.

5) on the course a player may play full, 3/4, half shots, low punch shots, higher trajectory shots, fades, draws etc... and a fitting does not provide the environment to play this range of shot types.

6) on the course a player faces into the wind , downwind, cross wind etc... shots, but a fitting does not simulate any of these various wind conditions

7) company employees assigned to fit consumers and independent fitters both tell me their goal is not to teach swing technique or improve the customer's scoring average, but only to try and marginally improve the customer's shots; for example reduce a bad driver shot from 30 yards off line to 25 yards off line.

So, I believe club fitting is a scam, a marketing strategy aimed at selling fitting-service-fees and, or selling equipment. That said, if a customer enjoys the experience of being fitted for clubs, has fun doing it, I can respect and appreciate the value of that.

I would humbly, respectfully and strongly disagree. Now, are there poor fitters or one has had a poor fitting experience. Absolutely. Are there certain stores, where the primary purpose of a fitting is to sell you clubs. True. Yet, what are the alternatives? Do nothing and buy whatever is on sale or hot at the moment or what your buddy is playing/recommends and hope you will improve, but never do. Getting new clubs can be a daunting experience these days with so many options and so many good clubs available. A fitting is one of the steps to help you narrow down the choices. That’s why there are also driver fittings, woods/hybrid fittings, iron fittings, wedge and putter fittings to help you optimize the components in your bag.

Now, if you have a good and competent fitter, it will result in a significant and positive difference. A good fitting is an enjoyable and worthwhile experience. At the very least, it will help you decide, what may or may not work for you and give you information to make an informed decision. It is ultimately up to you to make the final decision to purchase or not purchase. Now, I am rather fortunate in that I have been fitted many times by one of the best in the business, TXG (now Club Champion Canada) and it has had a huge and positive impact on my game. But having well fitted clubs is only one piece of the equation. Finding a good coach and getting lessons is the first step in the process. Getting equipment that is fitted to you and your swing is the next step. Diligent and structured practice as well as good course management are other pieces. But most importantly have fun and enjoy your golf journey.

Sorry, you may disagree, but that is my humble opinion. One more piece to help.

Marty2Shanks · October 9

It is not a scam…HOWEVER….there are limitations that are hard to overcome. Most fittings will involve the standard length club, with a standard swing weight, with lighter weight shafts with the goal of maximizing distance. My experience playing with golfers post fitting is that the clubs are typically too light (in both swingweight and total weight), too long, too flat and have wrong sized grips. How many fitters start with a heavier shaft (which forces golfers to get the club into better position) and only work down if necessary? How many fitters start with shorter shafts and more upright angles and only lengthen if the ball is hooking/drawing too much? How many fitters start with a heavier swingweight and work down to ensure the golfer can feel/sense the head of the club? (bTw - I’ve gone through three fittings and none of them have adjusted a swingweight). How many fitters have started with a midsize or jumbo grip and dialed it down to standard if the golfer couldn’t control the club? This is the level of detail pros go through to dial in their equipment; but I understand this type of personalization is well beyond the means of most golfers and most fitters to stock all this fitting equipment. I just don’t understand how the majority of golfers still slice if the equipment is so dialed in at a fitting? The easiest way to get rid of a slice is to go shorter, heavier, and more upright; yet how many fitters out there are telling their customers to go with a 44.5” driver, with a 70-80 gram regular or stiff flex shaft, and more loft and upright angle to get rid of the slice? Few that I have seen; even many of the youtube fitters rarely do this…TXG (now Club Champion) being a rare exception.

I am 6 feet tall, 200lbs, with a 105mph driver swing speed. The irons I hit best are typically 1/4” short, 130g X-flex (Project X 6.5 or DG X100), and 2-3 degrees upright with either a midsize or jumbo grip, with a swingweight of ~D4. The irons the fitters say I should use are 1/4” long, ~100g S-flex, 1-degree upright, D1-2 swingweight with standard grips. I actually have this build in a JPX-800 Pro setup and I outhit that set with pretty much every other set I have that is configured to the specs I have worked out. At one point a fitter tried to get me into a set of TM Burners with 85g shafts and 1/2” long???!!! This person was obsessed with distance and not playability. So, understand the limitations and the potential biases in the fitter. Bottom line for me - If a fitter at a minimum never hands you different weight shafts to try, that fit is probably not going to be worth anything.

JDFish · October 9

I believe the problem is that a consumer does not have any idea who they can "trust" as a fitter is. Here is a recent case in point. I have a good friend who was a collegiate golfer, now age 54, still a 2-3 handicap and plays a lot of golf. Distance is not a problem for him - ex. driver about 280+. About 2 years ago he had a fitting at his club with the club pro (and a "certified" fitter) who found his "best" numbers were with Callaway Apex DCB with steelfiber i95 stiff shafts, so he bought them. Flash forward to March of this year - he did a fitting at his father's club with the club pro (a "certified" fitter) who said that the Apex irons had way too much spin and he was fitted for Titleist T100s (I think - could be 150s, whichever is the newest model) with Nipon Modus 85 stiff shafts, which he is now gaming. So, which fitter was right? I think fitters are great for helping choose a shaft because of the limited "off the rack" options, and I have a "trusted" fitter myself.

Edited October 9 by JDFish

frazzman80 · October 9

I CAN paint my own car. It would work and I could choose to do it rather inexpensively with brushes and paint that I already have on hand. Or, I can use spray paint. Yeah…spray paint is definitely the way to go!

Will it be perfect? Probably not. Will I second guess myself about the job I did? Probably so. But will there be new paint on my car? Can I use my car with that paint? YOU BET!

OR, I can take my car to a professional paint and body shop and have them paint my car. Will they have the proper equipment to make sure it is done right? Will they use the correct paint type? Will they offer me options they think are best given their expertise? YOU BET!

Now, is every paint and body shop created equal? Is “Bob’s discount paint and body” on a street corner in the bad side of town the same as “Royal Paint and Collision repair” in the half-million dollar building with 30 enclosed bays?

That’s where you as the consumer have to decide. If Bob’s is $5,000 cheaper, there will still be paint on your car and you can still use it and it DEFINITELY WILL BE BETTER than you doing it yourself. Will it be as good as Royal’s job? Depends on the number of 5-star ratings right?

Don't sell yourself short. You’ll be driving that car and you’ll have to pay money for the paint regardless.

Edited October 9 by frazzman80

Tom54 · October 9

It’s not a scam, but it’s not a panacea, either.

Hwexler317 · October 9

No, club fitting is not a scam for some players. I was fitted with my Callaways 2 years ago. I have a nine index and have played much better. Definitely increase distance. I am also 5’ 3 so it helped that I was able to get shorter shafts and the correct lie angle.

Louis_Posture · October 9

24 minutes ago, Marty2Shanks said:

Most fittings will involve the standard length club, with a standard swing weight, with lighter weight shafts with the goal of maximizing distance. My experience playing with golfers post fitting is that the clubs are typically too light

Yes, I've learned the same thing from talking to people selling fittings as well as customers who've been for for new club specifications. Again the problem is that striking the same club several consecutive times in a studio or driving range environment allows the player the opportunity to groove an effective swing tempo-rhythm with a lighter weight shaft, and lighter weight produces the "best numbers", so the fitter recommends lighter weight.

However, on the course when swinging that super light weight driver shaft only once every 15 to 30 minutes, and when playing a 6-iron into a 15 mph wind, or when standing on the tee box of a 180 yard par-3 hole upset after having made double the previous hole, the "light weight shaft grooved swing from the fitting" is gone and the player struggles.

Julius · October 9

I think like all complex areas, it depends. If you are a beginner or high handicapper, probably better to invest in quality lessons to find a repeatable swing that you can actually take a qualified fitter. Going to a fitter (good or bad fitters) with a highly variable swing is likely not going to yield big benefits. I was fitted for PING clubs, I think the second time was better as I was able to really discuss specs with the owner and we spent good quality time on that, but I did it early in the season and was not really in "golf swing" shape - so I would also do this next time after being in better golf swing shape with some rounds behind me. Overall I will never buy clubs again without the fitting and a proper one, not a big box (which I never did) as those are going to be highly variable.