Driver fitting at the Scottsdale ClubChampions

[EnderinAZ]

My driver is toast. It is a Taylormade Sim 2 with which I have hit somewhere near 2000 ball.  

Two things are wrong with it. The “speed slot” has a plastic insert that is cracked and getting worse and it has a flat spot on the face that is oval shaped and about an inch and a quarter both width and height.  

I currently have a Veylix 573 Alpina shaft in it. It was fitted for a Taylormade M2 at Club Champions some years ago. The shaft worked for me so I just moved it when I upgraded the clubs. 

I went back to Club Champions because of the experience and service I received from the guys in Scottsdale. This was my third driver fitting at Club Champions, Scottsdale.  

 

 

For this review I asked the fitters “how do you approach a fitting?” You will note; no place in the fitters answer do they discuss cost of equipment. It is something you, as the customer have to bring up. It is better to bring it up BEFORE you start testing shafts. Once you find the shaft – head combination that works for you it is very difficult to move to a less expensive component with less favorable results. 

According to Don Kinney, Club Champions Western Reginal Trainer, these are the steps Club Champions takes to fit a club to a specific golfer 

• 1. Baseline Assessment 

         We begin by gathering information on the golfer's current clubs and shafts, as well as their playing experience and goals.

         The golfer hits shots with their current setup to establish a performance baseline. This gives us key metrics like swing speed, ball speed, launch angle, spin rate, and dispersion pattern. 

• 2. Analyzing the Data 

         Using tools like TrackMan, we analyze the golfer’s swing dynamics, paying attention to factors like tempo, transition, and load. 

         We consider how their swing mechanics interact with the current shaft’s characteristics (flex, torque, weight, and bend profile). 

 

• 3. Shaft Selection 

            Based on the data, we experiment with different shafts. We focus on matching the shaft's weight, flex, and bend profile to the golfer’s unique swing. 

            By changing one variable at a time—typically starting with shaft weight—we can assess how each adjustment impacts performance. 

• 4. Testing and Feedback 

             The golfer tests a variety of shafts, and we monitor their performance using1 TrackMan data. 

             While data is crucial, we also consider how the shaft feels to the golfer. Comfort and confidence in the equipment are key to maximizing their performance. 

• 5. Fine-Tuning 

             Once we find a shaft that optimizes launch conditions and feel, we fine-tune other factors such as length, swing weight, and grip size to ensure a perfect fit. 

• 6. Education 

             We educate the golfer on why the recommended shaft works best for them, breaking down how it will help with consistency, distance, and accuracy. “ 

My Fitter was Seth Farmer. Great guy to work with and very knowledgeable in both shaft and head selection. I asked him his point of view on how he helps people in the fitting process.  

“We are the only fitting company in the world that uses AI. Combined with our experience over time we are able to make decisions based off of that. We also want to take a look at ball flight as well as tenderizes in the golf swing to make sure when the misses do happen, they are consistent towards one side of the golf course. In addition to that we have almost 80 years or golf experience between everyone at the store so the great thing about that is if someone is lost in a fit someone here will more than likely to have the answer. Club and swing path really affects what happens to the golf ball itself and how it wants to fly through the air as well as how far it goes. If we have someone whose golf swing is not very consistent and needs to find something more stable, than we as fitters know what to pull off the wall. That ensures that we are not wasting any time or energy on golf shafts that do not fit the profile we need to make that golfer consistent. “ 

Before I get into the fitting I must throw a disclaimer out. I have a damaged right shoulder. In my swing, I clamp my right arm from my elbow to my shoulder to the right side of my chest. The only part of my right arm that helps with the swing is from my elbow to my finger tips. 

I currently carry a 9.6 handicap index. I am 66 years old and play well over 150 rounds a year.  

I went back to Club Champions in Scottsdale because golf technology has move forward enough in both head design and shaft design to dramatically tighten my dispersion and increase my distance. 

I tried 3 different club heads: 

The Taylormade QI10 Max 

The Ping G430 Max 

The Mizuno ST Max 

I tried 4 different shafts

The Accra 140 gx M3  (https://accragolf.com/product/gx-series/?radius=300)

The LA golf A series Mid 50 cat 3  (https://lagolf.com/products/a-series?_gl=1%2Ai08z5c%2A_up%2AMQ..&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI39nspbWsiAMVwM_CBB1c9iXkEAAYASAAEgLxtfD_BwE )

The Fujikura Speeder in both the regular and stiff shaft (https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/speeder-nx/ )

But before I get into the meat of the fitting here is how my current Sim 2 driver with the Veylix Alpina shaft started the fitting.

Carry Distance

Dispersion

I had hit several balls to warm up. The Trackman data ( Club Champions gave me access to my Trackman data as part of the fitting process) above shows my driver results. My “push “ shots are longer and to the right side of the fairway and into the rough. When I am in the center of the fairway the shots are shorter. And, yeah, those screen shots above are indicative of my driver off the tee.   

Shot data 

 

My final choice was the Taylormade QI10 Max.  

 

With a Fujikura Speeder NX Blue shaft 

QI10 Max carry distance while installed on the Blue Speeder shaft. 

The QI10 total distance with the regular Speeder shaft. 

Data

As you can see the difference between my current in both dispersion and distance was enough to make me decide on a new driver.   

For me the QI10 Max with the Fujikura Speeder shaft was hands down the best choice. Below are the graphs of the other shafts and club heads I tried.  

QI10 max 9 degree Accura carry distance 

IQ10 Max 9 degree Accura total distance 

The LA Golf A series mid 50 cat 3. This shaft felt whippy in my hands and I struggled to get it to square the club face. It only took a swing or two to tell this was not the shaft for me.

Carry distance with the Taylormade head. Notice the push to the right side of the centerline.

Total distance

The Ping G 430 Max felt heavy against the Mizuno and Taylormade club heads. Other than that it moved the ball pretty much the way I wanted it to,  

 

Carry distance was slightly less than either my current gamer and the QI10 

The total distance again was slightly less and slightly more spread out than the QI10. But, because there was absolutely no difference in cost for the club heads I chose the QI10. My last 3 drivers have been Taylormade and I am comfortable with them. 

The Mizuno ST Max was my dark horse. I had read about the driver online and seen some online reviews. They all said the ball goes straight and far with this driver. 

 

Mizuno ST Max carry 

Mizuno ST Max Total distance 

I was not impressed. The Mizuno ST Max was hard to work  and control. The head felt heavy and the balls felt dead as they came off the face. It did not take long to put that club down.  

 

To me the fitting process is a necessary requirement in order to achieve my best golf.  I need the expert observations of the fitter, the combination of Trackman/Club Champion AI, and a room full of golf shafts to override my swing flaws caused by too many shoulder surgeries.  

 

There are a couple of things about Club Champions in Scottdale that bring me back every couple of years. The first is the people. I have worked with 4 different fitters there and they have all been very qualified to get the right clubs and shafts into my bag, as well as being genuinely nice guys.  

 

The second is it is my fitting. I set the tone and direction; they work with that and produce the finer points. Another thing to note, the guys at Club Champions work with your swing. The fitters are NOT swing trainers although I am sure they could be. They do not try to adjust your swing, although they will point out things like swing path to help get you dialled in. In my experience with Club Champions both being fitted and watching the fitting process,  their job is to fit you with clubs that make your swing produce the best results possible. 

 

Third is costs for the fittings. I paid for the initial full bag fitting back in 2018. Everything after that is a “re-fit” and those do not cost anything. That re-fit point is a Club Champions staple.  

My conclusion: 

 

Initial conversations: 4.5 out of 5 

              Pros  

              Very thorough in their questions on what you are looking for in both club type and results. 

              Cons 

              They do not talk money when the fitters start their conversations. If you are on a budget you have to mention that to start. 

       2.   The fitting process:  5 out of 5 

              Pros 

              Well trained fitters can adjust the equipment after watching only a swing or two. 

              They listen to what you want. 

              They do not give swing instruction, instead they fit you to your swing.  

              Very knowledgeable on current brands, but do not represent any manufacturer.  

              Cons 

              You hit lots of golf balls in the fitting and the fitter will put clubs in your hands as   

              long as you want to hit them. A full bag fitting takes 3 hours. You may need to  

              set up more than one appointment. Fatigue can become an issue. The fitters will  

              discuss this if asked.   

       3.  Costs: 4.5 out of 5 

             Pros 

             They do not hide any costs and will give you options. But, like any custom made  

             Item, custom clubs can be expensive. 

             One time fitting cost. Refits and adjustments are part of the fitting experience  

             are included in the initial cost 

             Cons 

             You have to ask specific questions to get specific answers.   

       4.  Overall:  4.7 out of 5 

             The Scottsdale Club Champions is a quality fitting operation. The staff know golf  

             equipment, Trackman, and how to read the data to put the best clubs for 

             your swing in your hands. Refits, tweaks, or just wanting to try the next iteration  

             of a club is all part of the after fitting experience that they offer.  

             Cons 

             Clubs are built in Chicago. Depending on volume can take up to 6 weeks for  

             delivery.  

               

My final take on fitting and Scottsdale Club Champions 

 

Golf equipment manufactures make little tweaks every year to the equipment they sell. These tweaks produce about 3 yards of improvement in distance for a driver on average. Put a new shaft in that new head and you may get an additional 3 yards. 18 feet in an upgrade for now 600+ dollars for the head and an additional couple hundred for a good shaft. 800+ dollars for a ball that will roll an extra distance of a Ford F150 pickup truck.  Yeah, not for me. But.... 

 

Wait 4 years and suddenly that distance increase is in the 25 to 30 yard gain, and that is some serious distance increase. Plus with the new measuring devices and AI tighter more precise dispersion is achievable.   

 

The fitting process can and will make you a better golfer. Even if you only get out a few times a year, dialled in clubs will make the round a lot more fun.  

 

Club Champions can make that fun happen for you. 

 

If you are interested in the Scottsdale Club Champions here is the contact information for the two fitters I mentioned in the review. 

 

Seth Farmer 

Regional Support Fitter  

CLUB CHAMPION 
9015 E Via Linda Suite 100, Scottsdale, AZ 85258 
Mobile: 928-554-5906— Email: seth.farmer@clubchampion.com 
Office: 602-946-4878— Web: clubchampiongolf.com 

 

If you contact Seth Farmer here is a promo code that could save you some money on the initial fitting process. SFarm2023 

 

Don Kinney, PGA 
Western Region Field Trainer 
CLUB CHAMPION 
9015 E Via Linda, Suite 100, Scottsdale, AZ 85258 
Mobile: 623-570-1024— Email: don@clubchampion.com 
Scottsdale Store: 602-946-4878  -   Web: clubchampion.com 

 

 

Edited October 10 by EnderinAZ
Finished the right up

[Golfspy_CG2]

Very thorough review and well done.  Amazing consistency to manage a consistent 1.49 smash factor on all the Qi10 shots or did they delete some poorer ones

I don’t quite have as positive things to say about CC.  But thats a personal opinion not for this thread. 

[EnderinAZ]

3 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Very thorough review and well done.  Amazing consistency to manage a consistent 1.49 smash factor on all the Qi10 shots or did they delete some poorer ones

I don’t quite have as positive things to say about CC.  But thats a personal opinion not for this thread. 

They did not delete any of the shots. The combinations of shafts and heads is a piece of what fitters do there. The other part is the knowledge of the equipment and of individual swings. The guys at club champions can and will put clubs in your hands that will bring out your best swing. 

I hate to say it this way, but if you have the time and money you can BUY a decent golf game. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

45 minutes ago, EnderinAZ said:

They did not delete any of the shots. The combinations of shafts and heads is a piece of what fitters do there. The other part is the knowledge of the equipment and of individual swings. The guys at club champions can and will put clubs in your hands that will bring out your best swing. 

I hate to say it this way, but if you have the time and money you can BUY a decent golf game. 

Well if money could buy a decent game, I’d be holding a Tour Card right now.

Again those were impressive smash factors.  And we are right at the same driver speed.  Technically you have me by 2-3 mph.  So it’s nice to see 15-20 more yards are only a few more mph away.   I need to work on the quality of my contact, as i’ve been in the 1.44 to 1.46 area of late.  

[Shankopotomous]

Very good write up.

I hope the wait isnt the full 6 weeks for you, that would be tough.

Isnt the max smash factor 1.5?  @GolfSpy_APH i would not be unhappy with a 1.46.

[EnderinAZ]

I actually got the club in about a week. I did not put the write up in until I had a chance to play the driver a few rounds. 

For me the combination of the Fujikura shaft and the QI10 Max head is a fantastic combination. I can work the ball, left or right and straight down the middle is long and fun!

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Shankopotomous said:

 

Isnt the max smash factor 1.5? 

Yes and no . It is possible to get 1.51 or 1.52 type readings depending on where you strike the ball and what part of the clubhead gets read.  Toe moves faster and might get you a little more ball speed but the LM read the center if the head for speed. 

[Rob Person]

Fantastic and thorough insights to your fitting experience!

Very detailed too.  This should be a great baseline for anyone looking to get fitted.

[GolfSpy_APH]

5 hours ago, Shankopotomous said:

Very good write up.

I hope the wait isnt the full 6 weeks for you, that would be tough.

Isnt the max smash factor 1.5?  @GolfSpy_APH i would not be unhappy with a 1.46.

Technically but also depends on the system. Radar and camera systems read/calculate differently. Also think I was the wrong person tagged.

[Shankopotomous]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Technically but also depends on the system. Radar and camera systems read/calculate differently. Also think I was the wrong person tagged.

Oops ... Sorry jamie..i picked your userid instead of robs when they popped up in the list next ro each other as i was typing the username.  

[cksurfdude]

@EnderinAZ glad this worked out so well for you!

Clearly your Club Champion is much better quality vs one near me - which in all likelihood I will never ever never visit again ('nuff said).

[EnderinAZ]

1 hour ago, cksurfdude said:

@EnderinAZ glad this worked out so well for you!

Clearly your Club Champion is much better quality vs one near me - which in all likelihood I will never ever never visit again ('nuff said).

That's too bad. I went to the PXG Driver challenge last spring and ran into this kid working there who couldn't fit you with a pair of socks much less a driver shaft. So I know what you mean.