Different Classes of DTC

[GolfSpy_APH]

While I try and wait for my son to go to sleep whole watching Winnie the Pooh for the 400th time in 3 days I was thinking about DTC brands and how they may fit under the same umbrella, but there are really starting to be different segments within that grouping.

What do I mean? Well you have PXG that is technically a DTC brand but had expanded with their own stores and seem a lot more like a big boy brand versus many others.

Then there are what I will call in house DTC brands. These for me are Sub 70, New Level, Haywood ane maybe another few. These have their own shops, generally their own designs and build their clubs in house as well.

*Vice Golf for me is in-between just because they do their own building, design and more but aren't quite as big as PXG but have a bigger infrastructure than the others given their golf ball market. 

MacGregor and Ben Hogan are also in this in-between land I would say, just by being more recognized brand names.

Then you have your full kit DTC brands..think Stix and Robin golf that traditionally cater more to full sets, not necessarily for beginners but that is often the perception. Byrdie Golf design is another which could be put here.

Then you have your drop ship DTC brands. Takomo is likely the biggest name here with Caley being a close second. Ram? Not sure if they drop ship or not.

Finally we have the specialty DTC brands which will only do putters or limited selections/specialize in a single product. Too many to list here, but again just a different segment of the market.

DTC used to be pretty simple or easy to follow, now there is a lot more complexity to the category which may or may not be fully flushed out and I think is worth a deeper dive to better inform the customer.

[Shankster]

The only DTC brand I ever considered was Hogan.  I’ve looked at all of the current brands s Why? Because I like information, I like knowing things.  There is a young gentleman at work that is in dire need of a new set, and I’m actually considering recommending Stix to him.  Partly because of the review here, and also because of the price point.  He is a once a month type of golfer.  I think they are perfect for him.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

 

*Vice Golf for me is in-between just because they do their own building, design and more but aren't quite as big as PXG but have a bigger infrastructure than the others given their golf ball market. 

 

Vice is probably teetering on not being DTC anymore.  You have been able to buy their golf balls in golf shops and larger brick and mortar shops like Target and Walmart.   My guess is that their clubs will reach that point soon.  

[Rob Person]

Vice will elevated to sub70 levels pretty quickly. Maybe even go to pxg level quicker with in store fitting opportunities with growth.

Pxg for me is no longer a dtc, as they have certified fitters everywhere now, and on the road demo and order fitters too. plus their own shops.

Lazrus is stepping into the irons arena too now. They offer a full.set with wedges for umder $450 shipped. 

I hear Stix is about to make a big announcement soon as well. The most recent is their partnership with Costco.

Ram is a DTC but announced they will be offering demo event setups soon ,.possibly 2025.

Edit- RIVL is starting with wedges and a putter lineup, but moving to irons as well for 2025. They also have a golf bag on their site too.

 

 

Edited October 14 by Rob Person

[rkj427]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

Vice is probably teetering on not being DTC anymore.  You have been able to buy their golf balls in golf shops and larger brick and mortar shops like Target and Walmart.   My guess is that their clubs will reach that point soon.  

The Golf Galaxy store near me also has Vice balls in stock and out on display.

[cnosil]

22 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

 

Pxg for me is no longer a dtc, as they have certified fitters everywhere now, and on the road demo and order fitters too. plus their own shops.

 

I’d say they are still DTC because you have to buy directly from PXG. When I can buy PXG product from a non PXG entity then I’ll say they are no longer DTC.  

[Josh Parker]

36 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Pxg for me is no longer a dtc, as they have certified fitters everywhere now, and on the road demo and order fitters too. plus their own shops.

I would say they are absolutely still a DTC brand. However, unlike most DTC brands, they have the capital to market like the Big Boys. 

I don't think we will ever see them in PGASS or GG

[Rob Person]

32 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

 

I don't think we will ever see them in PGASS or GG

I agree, I think they will keep expanding and adding more stand alone stores too.

However, they have certified fitters in private stores, and clubs to demo and be fitted to. Like all major brands, your custom order has to be sent in and then shipped.  The only difference is you can't walk in and buy off the rack at those.  Can you buy off the rack at their brick and mortars? If so, that's not DTC.  Just my opinion, nothing more.

 

Edited October 14 by Rob Person

[Shrek74]

1 hour ago, Rob Person said:

Just my opinion, nothing more.

No, there is no off the rack option. It's either get fit and order, get on the website and build what you want, or call their player support staff and custom order through them.

[Erin B]

I’m all about DTC and especially sub 70, PXG, and New Level. It will be hard for me to go back to the big boys except for Drivers. Especially that I know what I’m fitted for (fittings are NOT a scam) and can order exactly what I need.

[Coulter]

21 minutes ago, Erin B said:

Especially that I know what I’m fitted for (fittings are NOT a scam) 

I see what you did there

[Erin B]

3 minutes ago, Coulter said:

I see what you did there

I couldn’t help myself!

[Coulter]

It really is interesting to see and I’ve kind of thought this recently. You see some of these brands like PXG and Vice that EVERYONE already knows about and in vice’s case you see their products in Walmart and other stores. So it’s hard to see them as DTC just for the recognition. Then Takomo is the hot new thing with Sub70 being pretty highly noticed now. I guess for me I’ve always thought of DTC products and companies in general to be a lesser known and much more difficult to acquire thing but these top few seem to really be breaking that mold in my mind at least.

[Josh Parker]

9 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Can you buy off the rack at their brick and mortars? If so, that's not DTC.  Just my opinion, nothing more.

They are only custom order.  I agree, they are so well known that it makes it hard to see them as a DTC but they really are in my opinion.  

[cnosil]

8 hours ago, Coulter said:

I guess for me I’ve always thought of DTC products and companies in general to be a lesser known and much more difficult to acquire thing but these top few seem to really be breaking that mold in my mind at least.

I’ve never thought about it in that way.  To me direct to consumer (DTC) is that you buy directly from the OEM with no middleman.   Maxfli balls are DTC since you can only buy them from the OEM which is Dicks/Golf Galaxy.   

[GolfSpy_APH]

By definition it is Direct To Consumer so no middleman, more just interesting how this has taken on several different forms over the years. 

Used to be no fitting just see and buy online, but has expanded and become a lot more mainstream.

I would agree with @Coulter that many view them as "lesser" or smaller with less R&D. However I do think that perception has also changed over the years in large part due to more people becoming more knowledgeable and a lot of the experiences shared here.

[Dan1247]

This is a hard question to answer. I think Vice can no longer be considered DTC due to their availability in stores. 

PXG is blurring the lines with their own stores, however you can't go into a box store and buy off the shelf. I can go get fitted at a simulator location near me, but I can do the same with Sub 70. I would still have to place a 'custom' order and wait for those to be shipped to me.

Other than that I would break the tiers down into do they design their own clubs (PXG, Sub 70, New Level, Maltby, etc) or seem to order blanks and add their names to it. I think brand recognition of all DTC brands is growing as OEM club prices continue to go up, but we here a small subset of the overall golfing community. How many of these DTC brands have we only heard about because of a comment or test on this site?

[RyanGi]

To me, it’s all about following the money. DTCs don’t use middlemen, so the pricing only has to support their efforts at large. Anything else…R&D expenditures, advertising, whatever, is just a generalization since it can/will be different for each mfg., but they’re still DTC.

Without middlemen, the prices are lower because there’s no markup needed. Once a mfg starts using third parties to sell their product, there has to be a markup…unless your Apple or Lego…or if you take an internal loss to give the distributor a cut…

The successful DTC brands will continue to grow…that’s what businesses try to do. The question is, what changes as they grow? And how do they expand?

[Shrek74]

I'm not going to get into what makes up DTC and what doesn't, as that's been hit on already and can have varied opinions. My thoughts are around DTC as a whole and what we're finding out there.

I feel there are many types of DTC's at this point. You have some with in-house fitters as well as fitting carts out in the field. Some are online orders only with no fittings available. Some have good phone/email support to do virtual-type fittings, and some leave much to be desired. Some have demo programs, to allow you to try out a particular model before buying a full set. Some don't really have any type of demo program, so you're either all in or not. Some have high quality CS, some leave much to be desired there too.

Depending on what the company offers can determine really where they fall in the DTC environment. I see 2-3 tiers of DTC at this point. These tiers mainly refer to what they offer in terms of clubs, shafts, grips, customization, original designs, fittings, demo program, CS quality, etc.

Tier 1 are the full-service companies that offer a full level of clubs from driver to putter along with fittings (both at HQ and at outside fitting carts), have a large level of customization (shafts/grips/alterations), are not "catalog" clubs, have a high quality CS, and are just all-around a full-service company. PXG and Sub70 are fully in this tier, in my opinion. I can see an argument for Haywood as well, but they do fall short in a few things in my eyes.

Tier 2 tend to fall a bit short in a few of the above categories. Maybe they don't have a full set of clubs to choose from or they have limited customization or they don't have fittings available. Something causes them to just not be a full-service tier 1 DTC. I can see Vice, Takomo, and NLG in this tier, among others (MacGregor, Ram, Hogan, etc).

Tier 3 are those that offer either niche products, or just one type of club, or a small amount of options. They have virtually no customization, low quality CS, offer mainly catalog clubs, etc. Some I'd put here are Caley, Indi Golf, etc.

Where what company falls is debatable. But this is really where I see the differentiation within the DTC space.

[Rob Person]

5 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

I'm not going to get into what makes up DTC and what doesn't, as that's been hit on already and can have varied opinions. My thoughts are around DTC as a whole and what we're finding out there.

I feel there are many types of DTC's at this point. You have some with in-house fitters as well as fitting carts out in the field. Some are online orders only with no fittings available. Some have good phone/email support to do virtual-type fittings, and some leave much to be desired. Some have demo programs, to allow you to try out a particular model before buying a full set. Some don't really have any type of demo program, so you're either all in or not. Some have high quality CS, some leave much to be desired there too.

Depending on what the company offers can determine really where they fall in the DTC environment. I see 2-3 tiers of DTC at this point. These tiers mainly refer to what they offer in terms of clubs, shafts, grips, customization, original designs, fittings, demo program, CS quality, etc.

Tier 1 are the full-service companies that offer a full level of clubs from driver to putter along with fittings (both at HQ and at outside fitting carts), have a large level of customization (shafts/grips/alterations), are not "catalog" clubs, have a high quality CS, and are just all-around a full-service company. PXG and Sub70 are fully in this tier, in my opinion. I can see an argument for Haywood as well, but they do fall short in a few things in my eyes.

Tier 2 tend to fall a bit short in a few of the above categories. Maybe they don't have a full set of clubs to choose from or they have limited customization or they don't have fittings available. Something causes them to just not be a full-service tier 1 DTC. I can see Vice, Takomo, and NLG in this tier, among others (MacGregor, Ram, Hogan, etc).

Tier 3 are those that offer either niche products, or just one type of club, or a small amount of options. They have virtually no customization, low quality CS, offer mainly catalog clubs, etc. Some I'd put here are Caley, Indi Golf, etc.

Where what company falls is debatable. But this is really where I see the differentiation within the DTC space.

Well written variations!

 

[ashmore72]

Marketing wins all battles. That is the only reason the big names are still around. If these DTC companies, take out PXG, had players on tour with their clubs or influencers to a lesser extent then you would see them become household names. 
 

I mentioned Foreward golf in another post where I will be purchasing these clubs in 2025. This is a brand that literally fits you with no questions asked. Designed in house. Fit in house. It’s like nothing else I have seen from a true DTC base.

golf in Asia is all about boutique brands running the shows. You still have the big names but there are so many golf companies out there in that industry it’s crazy. I think this is a prime example of what could be in the US if people migrate away from there trusted box stores. 

Edited October 16 by ashmore72

[Rob Person]

Posted this elsewhere too

I just saw Bombtech dropped a complete bag set today for sub $500.  I've seen the wedges and woods mentioned here, didn't know they did irons until today.  

I know you can buy them direct, or through e-tail stores.  Not sure on custom options, but i think they were the first to do those rainbow hued style clubs

[Louis_Posture]

I believe Callaway, Mizuno, Titleist, Cobra and more well known brand names all have their own web site stores from which consumers may buy direct from the brand.

[cnosil]

34 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

I believe Callaway, Mizuno, Titleist, Cobra and more well known brand names all have their own web site stores from which consumers may buy direct from the brand.

Yes, but since you can buy them from places like PGA Superstore, Golf Galaxy, and many other golf merchants they are not DTC.  

[Louis_Posture]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Yes, but since you can buy them from places like PGA Superstore, Golf Galaxy, and many other golf merchants they are not DTC.  

If a brand has a  website store which sells directly to consumers that brand is literally direct-to-consumer (DTC). It is simply a fact that brand does sell direct-to-consumer.

I understand that some internet forum participants for some reason don't want to consider Callaway, Mizuno, Cobra, Titleist etc.. as "DTC", but they're wrong.

[cnosil]

54 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

If a brand has a  website store which sells directly to consumers that brand is literally direct-to-consumer (DTC). It is simply a fact that brand does sell direct-to-consumer.

I understand that some internet forum participants for some reason don't want to consider Callaway, Mizuno, Cobra, Titleist etc.. as "DTC", but they're wrong.

Depends on the definition you want to follow.  Most here typically discuss pure DTC companies and not those that follow a hybrid model where they use both third party sellers and DTC sales strategies.

[GolfSpy_APH]

4 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

If a brand has a  website store which sells directly to consumers that brand is literally direct-to-consumer (DTC). It is simply a fact that brand does sell direct-to-consumer.

I understand that some internet forum participants for some reason don't want to consider Callaway, Mizuno, Cobra, Titleist etc.. as "DTC", but they're wrong.

For the purpose of this discussion we are but involving these brands and staying to those brands that either only sell online or in stores which are ones they own (ie don't have other brands available for purchase). Meaning PXG, Sub 79, Haywood and some others.

The big brands are not included in this, despite your loop hole definition.

[Josh Parker]

9 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

I understand that some internet forum participants for some reason don't want to consider Callaway, Mizuno, Cobra, Titleist etc.. as "DTC", but they're wrong

It's not just some "forum participants" that don't consider the big OEMs DTC, it's 99.9% of the golf world wouldn't consider them a DTC company. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

7 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

It's not just some "forum participants" that don't consider the big OEMs DTC, it's 99.9% of the golf world wouldn't consider them a DTC company. 

He has some hot takes which I think are generally go against the opinion of most. Fair for him to have his take, but hopefully after clarifying things in my post we can move past this and if he wants to create his own thread about all brands being DTC he can do that while not infecting this thread.