jbern Unofficial Review: Sub70 659 CB Long Term Review

[jbern]

Introduction:

I’ve done a couple of introductions on the forum. The main one is on my WITB post here, but there’s also intros on the Clicgear 4.0 testing thread and the L.A.B. DF3 testing thread! 

I purchased the Sub70 659 CB irons in the spring of 2023. So I’ve now had the irons for almost two full seasons. I was looking between the 699 v1 or v2 pro’s and the 639 CB’s. These 659 CB irons 5i through 50* came up on Facebook marketplace, matched my fitting specs perfectly, and was a very good deal. They were a little beat up with a lot of nicks and dings, but at least I didn’t have to worry about putting the first mark in them!  

 

First impressions (9/10):

I read a number of very positive reviews on the 639 CBs and the MGS iron testing gave them good marks. The 659s were improved 639s, so my first impression was basically, I can't believe I got the 659s for cheaper than 639s were listed for (I was excited). I took this photo and sent it to anyone I had ever golfed with and told them I'm ready to get after it. 

The grips were in mediocre to poor shape and they were standard size. I knew I was going to have to replace them as soon as I put my hands on them. 

The milled sole with the slight V looks nice, but I had never used Irons with a V-sole before. I'm not sure what the pros/cons of the V-sole are, but I've enjoyed the turf interaction with these irons (especially the shorter irons) more than any other previous iron set I've ever used. They don't dig like other players irons I've used and they don't bounce like other Game Improvement irons I've used. I might even make it a requirement for future iron purchases (TBD) because it feels so nice. 

My initial round with these irons was in 4 hours of rain, so it wasn't the greatest first impressions environment. I didn't perform well with the irons that day. A lot of bad swing fat shots and extreme thin shots. I think I was wanting the irons to be perfect and was making poor swings. I did have several clean shots, and those were great, but of course, all of my distances and gapping were off because I didn't do any range/simulator session before taking these to the course. Note to self: hit up a range or simulator before taking the irons straight to the course. 

 

Aesthetics (10/10):

In short, these irons look great! I've seen better looking irons (I still visit the Edel iron testing thread for photo browsing), but the milled sole and back of these things is beautiful. At address, the satin finish is done perfectly to where it's not too dull or too shiny. The size at address is small enough to give that "players iron" look, but big enough to instill confidence. The text on the irons is great and the simple black text paint suites me. 

My only complaints are that they have a lot of dings in them from the previous owner and there looks to be more offset than I expected. Neither bother me and the offset is probably part of what instills a little extra confidence.  

 

Numbers (17/20):

I took these irons to a simulator and a trackman range to test distance deviations on off-center strikes and to just get my average carry numbers. My average carry numbers with each club are below:

My numbers from the simulator are a little "juiced" and the numbers from the trackman range are what I use on-course. Unfortunately, I lost the trackman numbers other than the average values that I put into a separate spreadsheet, so I need to use the simulator data to explain misshit carry distances. 

Using the 7i as the example, I removed severe mishits that were shanked or severely thinned and ended up with 36 shots over 2 different simulator sessions. The 7i had a carry distance minimum and maximum of 167-190 yards. Most were going 178-182 yards. The few that carried close to 190 had more club head speed. 

My common miss with all of my irons is a thin-heal miss. For the 659CB, that thankfully does not equate to very much carry distance loss. There were 6 shots that I documented as thin-heal misses and the average carry distance was still 174 yards. The worst distance loss came from high-toe strikes. I only documented 3 high-toe strikes, but they were my three lowest carry distances.

The photo below is with a PW. A good PW goes 125 and I had 122 to the pin, no wind. I hit the shot off the toe and it went 106. 

On-course Performance (18/20):

My favorite thing about these irons is that I can count on the distances. I know my good shot distance and my traditional thin-heal miss distance. I VERY rarely hit a shot where feel does not match the distance result (direction result is another story haha). 

They still allow me to hit towering high shots into greens, so I can get the 5i-AW to hit and stop on the soft Michigan greens I typically play. 

I like to hit shots with as straight of a ball flight as possible and workability isn’t something that I value in an iron. That being said, when I have to bend an iron shot it is very easy to pull off with the 659 CBs. 

The turf interaction is great! Definitely the best turf interaction I’ve ever felt with an iron. The irons glide nicely through all sorts of Michigan grasses and conditions. 

It is a fact that my hdcp has improved dramatically since picking these irons up. I am hitting more greens, getting closer to the hole on approach shots and par 3s. It would be remiss of me if I didn’t mention that I have practiced significantly and also improved other areas of my game beyond iron play. I do think these irons have helped my game, but not as much as other things. 

I haven’t mentioned any good shots specifically, but over the last two seasons, there has been plenty of nice ones. I had a round recently where I was within 12’ of the hole on 4 out of 5 par 3s. Below are breakdown photos from two  of those Par 3s. 

The Good, the Bad, the Inbetween (16/20):

The Good:

• Distance control
• Great height
• Turf interaction
• Looks
• Good shot feel
• Feel = result

The Bad:

• Toe strikes are penalizing
• Thin and toe shots can hurt the hands 
• Sometimes have too much side spin 

The in-between:

• No big wow factor
• The 5 iron has holes milled out of the back. The 5i is one of my favorite irons so maybe they are on to something with the milled out “undercut technology“?!?

• I take very good care of my clubs and they have still gotten many additional dings on them from the soft forged material. 

Play it or Trade it? (17/20)

I think it’s fairly obvious because I’ve played these irons for two seasons that I’m in the “Play it” camp! Haha These irons feel incredible when hit well and provide feedback when not it well.

Distance control is top notch!  The turf interaction with Michigan weather/grasses is so nice! They look good!

All of that being said, I do think I would benefit from something a LITTLE more forgiving. I also like to hit iron shots as straight as possible and more forgiving irons usually keep the ball flying straighter. I’m certainly in no hurry to replace them and I may try things like lighter graphite shafts or JumboMax grips on these 659 CBs before moving to a different iron. 

 

TL;DR: Final score (87/100):

I have thoroughly enjoyed using the Sub70 659 CB irons since April 2023! They look good! Distance control for me and my main miss is great! Turf interaction with the mini V-sole I love! All that being said, where I’m at in my game, I could benefit from irons that are a bit more forgiving!

If you’re looking for an iron set that looks good and can get the job done without shelling out for big OEM prices, these irons should be on your short list! 

[mpatrickriley]

Nice review!

I've been playing my 639 CBs for the past two seasons now and love them. They replaced another set of Sub 70 irons: the 699 Pro set that I reviewed here for MGS. Here's a shot of the my 639s the day I opened the box:

 

Like you, I have no complaints about these irons. I might have to give some attention to the v3 699 Pro set that is coming out next year, simply because it's reasonable to take all the forgiveness I can get. That said, for those who like playing a smaller, simpler iron, it's hard for me to recommend paying more when Sub 70 exists.

[WaffleHouseTour]

Back spin off your 5 iron?

All this just makes me want to try their newest models coming soon. 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, mpatrickriley said:

Nice review!

I've been playing my 639 CBs for the past two seasons now and love them. They replaced another set of Sub 70 irons: the 699 Pro set that I reviewed here for MGS. Here's a shot of the my 639s the day I opened the box:

 

Like you, I have no complaints about these irons. I might have to give some attention to the v3 699 Pro set that is coming out next year, simply because it's reasonable to take all the forgiveness I can get. That said, for those who like playing a smaller, simpler iron, it's hard for me to recommend paying more when Sub 70 exists.

Those look great! Nice job on the color coordinating! What shaft is that? How does the black finish hold up for you?

Like you, I'm very intrigued by the 699 Pro v3 irons that are coming out, assuming they offer that touch of more forgiveness I'm thinking my game could benefit from! 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Back spin off your 5 iron?

All this just makes me want to try their newest models coming soon. 

Yes, I probably should've mentioned that I do spin all of my clubs more than most and have a higher ball flight than most. With the softer greens (especially in the fall), I frequently have 5i backspin on a well struck shot!

I needed to get this long-term review wrapped up before the new stuff comes out because, I have a feeling, I'm going to make a trip to "The Seventy" around that time 

 

[Dan1247]

You finally got this review out! 

Very informative with plenty of real world experience to back up the data. Still excited to have a full season with mine next year, but I do wish I would've known the 699 V3s were coming out for the same reason as you.

[WaffleHouseTour]

3 hours ago, jbern said:

Yes, I probably should've mentioned that I do spin all of my clubs more than most and have a higher ball flight than most. With the softer greens (especially in the fall), I frequently have 5i backspin on a well struck shot!

I needed to get this long-term review wrapped up before the new stuff comes out because, I have a feeling, I'm going to make a trip to "The Seventy" around that time 

 

Yeah, a better 699, a more forgiving CB... need to actually hit them to see what is better for the individual player. 

And good on you if you can spin that 5 iron.  I'm envious. 

[jbern]

3 hours ago, Dan1247 said:

You finally got this review out! 

Very informative with plenty of real world experience to back up the data. Still excited to have a full season with mine next year, but I do wish I would've known the 699 V3s were coming out for the same reason as you.

Yea, I don’t know if Sub70 is on any sort of release cycle or not. It doesn’t really seem like it. I think the 659s have been out for just over 2 years. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed you bought them, because they are solid! It’s just a bummer that you haven’t had yours long at all and something newer and hopefully improved is coming out to replace them

[Rob Person]

@jbern. Great review and detail!

Love the designer look to these too

you mentioned swapping grips and shafts. Do you think one or the other (or both) will help you reach the desired feel you are looking for?

Have you looked into finding a shop that can clean up the scratches and dings without compromising the heads?

[Erin B]

On 10/25/2024 at 11:08 AM, jbern said:

Yes, I probably should've mentioned that I do spin all of my clubs more than most and have a higher ball flight than most. With the softer greens (especially in the fall), I frequently have 5i backspin on a well struck shot!

I needed to get this long-term review wrapped up before the new stuff comes out because, I have a feeling, I'm going to make a trip to "The Seventy" around that time 

 

I do the same thing. I generate a ton of spin, was wondering what shafts were in the clubs. I am thinking about another set, just can't decide between the New Levels and the Sub 70's. Leaning New Levels with KBS C Taper Lite, but my favorite shaft, Project X LZ, can be put in the Sub 70 clubs. I may search on ebay and have them bent to my fit at Collindale CO. Anyway, great write-up!

[jbern]

2 hours ago, Erin B said:

I do the same thing. I generate a ton of spin, was wondering what shafts were in the clubs. I am thinking about another set, just can't decide between the New Levels and the Sub 70's. Leaning New Levels with KBS C Taper Lite, but my favorite shaft, Project X LZ, can be put in the Sub 70 clubs. I may search on ebay and have them bent to my fit at Collindale CO. Anyway, great write-up!

The shafts in my irons are Project X 6.0 Rifle steel shafts. I would like to try some lower spinning graphite models. If I'm being honest with myself, I don't really know where to start on that.

[jbern]

12 hours ago, Rob Person said:

you mentioned swapping grips and shafts. Do you think one or the other (or both) will help you reach the desired feel you are looking for?

In my experience with JumboMax grips, they have allowed a looser grip. I believe this would lead to more consistent strikes over time. I have also read that graphite shafts allow more forgiveness in general. I have no data to back that up.

12 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Have you looked into finding a shop that can clean up the scratches and dings without compromising the heads?

No, I haven't looked for a fix-it-shop for these irons. I think it would require too much material to be removed to make it worth it. I think the soft iron material just leads itself to more dings. I also think this is true of a lot of softer forged irons. Maybe the answer is IRON COVERS (which is know is controversial on this forum) ! 

[Rob Person]

1 hour ago, jbern said:

Maybe the answer is IRON COVERS (which is know is controversial on this forum) ! 

After what I saw on my hotels and backs of the heads, this will be a tiny investment for me next!

[Erin B]

2 hours ago, jbern said:

The shafts in my irons are Project X 6.0 Rifle steel shafts. I would like to try some lower spinning graphite models. If I'm being honest with myself, I don't really know where to start on that.

I’m thinking Aerotec steel fiber, but I love the Project X LZ shaft so much. That’s why I’m thinking about the Sub 70s. 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, Erin B said:

I’m thinking Aerotec steel fiber, but I love the Project X LZ shaft so much. That’s why I’m thinking about the Sub 70s. 

No upcharge with Sub70 on the Project X LZ? Or minimal upcharge?

[William P]

1 hour ago, Erin B said:

I’m thinking Aerotec steel fiber, but I love the Project X LZ shaft so much. That’s why I’m thinking about the Sub 70s. 

I love my Aerotech Steel Fiber i95's. But I recommend you take the time for a fitting to ensure you get the performance characteristics you are looking for. As a point of reference, my shafts are 1" longer than Titleist standard, and I generate, what some would say, is more spin due to my swing characteristics. 

[Erin B]

20 minutes ago, jbern said:

No upcharge with Sub70 on the Project X LZ? Or minimal upcharge?

$50

12 minutes ago, William P said:

I love my Aerotech Steel Fiber i95's. But I recommend you take the time for a fitting to ensure you get the performance characteristics you are looking for. As a point of reference, my shafts are 1" longer than Titleist standard, and I generate, what some would say, is more spin due to my swing characteristics. 

I concur sir!!!

[RyanGi]

Just finishing my first season on the 699 v2s. They’re an awesome club and, I think, a great value. I’m interested see how the v3 series does! I haven’t hit the  ‘59s, but I’d like to compare them at some point. 

[jbern]

2 minutes ago, RyanGi said:

Just finishing my first season on the 699 v2s. They’re an awesome club and, I think, a great value. I’m interested see how the v3 series does! I haven’t hit the  ‘59s, but I’d like to compare them at some point. 

I would also like to compare them!

As I mentioned in my review, I was debating between the 699 Pro's & 639 CB's, but when these 659 CB's came up on fb for a great deal and in my fitting specs, I couldn't pass it up. It felt like destiny 

I live about 3 hours from Sub70's fitting HQ called "The Seventy" and I'd like to go there when the V3 stuff is released to test them all versus the 659CBs. I have a hunch I'm going to like the extra forgiveness in the 699 Pro v3's over the 659CBs and the 669 lineup. There's only one way to find out though and that's to make the trip to get fit!

[Cfhandyman]

On 10/25/2024 at 11:03 AM, jbern said:

Introduction:

I’ve done a couple of introductions on the forum. The main one is on my WITB post here, but there’s also intros on the Clicgear 4.0 testing thread and the L.A.B. DF3 testing thread! 

I purchased the Sub70 659 CB irons in the spring of 2023. So I’ve now had the irons for almost two full seasons. I was looking between the 699 v1 or v2 pro’s and the 639 CB’s. These 659 CB irons 5i through 50* came up on Facebook marketplace, matched my fitting specs perfectly, and was a very good deal. They were a little beat up with a lot of nicks and dings, but at least I didn’t have to worry about putting the first mark in them!  

 

First impressions (9/10):

I read a number of very positive reviews on the 639 CBs and the MGS iron testing gave them good marks. The 659s were improved 639s, so my first impression was basically, I can't believe I got the 659s for cheaper than 639s were listed for (I was excited). I took this photo and sent it to anyone I had ever golfed with and told them I'm ready to get after it. 

The grips were in mediocre to poor shape and they were standard size. I knew I was going to have to replace them as soon as I put my hands on them. 

The milled sole with the slight V looks nice, but I had never used Irons with a V-sole before. I'm not sure what the pros/cons of the V-sole are, but I've enjoyed the turf interaction with these irons (especially the shorter irons) more than any other previous iron set I've ever used. They don't dig like other players irons I've used and they don't bounce like other Game Improvement irons I've used. I might even make it a requirement for future iron purchases (TBD) because it feels so nice. 

My initial round with these irons was in 4 hours of rain, so it wasn't the greatest first impressions environment. I didn't perform well with the irons that day. A lot of bad swing fat shots and extreme thin shots. I think I was wanting the irons to be perfect and was making poor swings. I did have several clean shots, and those were great, but of course, all of my distances and gapping were off because I didn't do any range/simulator session before taking these to the course. Note to self: hit up a range or simulator before taking the irons straight to the course. 

 

Aesthetics (10/10):

In short, these irons look great! I've seen better looking irons (I still visit the Edel iron testing thread for photo browsing), but the milled sole and back of these things is beautiful. At address, the satin finish is done perfectly to where it's not too dull or too shiny. The size at address is small enough to give that "players iron" look, but big enough to instill confidence. The text on the irons is great and the simple black text paint suites me. 

My only complaints are that they have a lot of dings in them from the previous owner and there looks to be more offset than I expected. Neither bother me and the offset is probably part of what instills a little extra confidence.  

 

Numbers (17/20):

I took these irons to a simulator and a trackman range to test distance deviations on off-center strikes and to just get my average carry numbers. My average carry numbers with each club are below:

My numbers from the simulator are a little "juiced" and the numbers from the trackman range are what I use on-course. Unfortunately, I lost the trackman numbers other than the average values that I put into a separate spreadsheet, so I need to use the simulator data to explain misshit carry distances. 

Using the 7i as the example, I removed severe mishits that were shanked or severely thinned and ended up with 36 shots over 2 different simulator sessions. The 7i had a carry distance minimum and maximum of 167-190 yards. Most were going 178-182 yards. The few that carried close to 190 had more club head speed. 

My common miss with all of my irons is a thin-heal miss. For the 659CB, that thankfully does not equate to very much carry distance loss. There were 6 shots that I documented as thin-heal misses and the average carry distance was still 174 yards. The worst distance loss came from high-toe strikes. I only documented 3 high-toe strikes, but they were my three lowest carry distances.

The photo below is with a PW. A good PW goes 125 and I had 122 to the pin, no wind. I hit the shot off the toe and it went 106. 

On-course Performance (18/20):

My favorite thing about these irons is that I can count on the distances. I know my good shot distance and my traditional thin-heal miss distance. I VERY rarely hit a shot where feel does not match the distance result (direction result is another story haha). 

They still allow me to hit towering high shots into greens, so I can get the 5i-AW to hit and stop on the soft Michigan greens I typically play. 

I like to hit shots with as straight of a ball flight as possible and workability isn’t something that I value in an iron. That being said, when I have to bend an iron shot it is very easy to pull off with the 659 CBs. 

The turf interaction is great! Definitely the best turf interaction I’ve ever felt with an iron. The irons glide nicely through all sorts of Michigan grasses and conditions. 

It is a fact that my hdcp has improved dramatically since picking these irons up. I am hitting more greens, getting closer to the hole on approach shots and par 3s. It would be remiss of me if I didn’t mention that I have practiced significantly and also improved other areas of my game beyond iron play. I do think these irons have helped my game, but not as much as other things. 

I haven’t mentioned any good shots specifically, but over the last two seasons, there has been plenty of nice ones. I had a round recently where I was within 12’ of the hole on 4 out of 5 par 3s. Below are breakdown photos from two  of those Par 3s. 

The Good, the Bad, the Inbetween (16/20):

The Good:

• Distance control
• Great height
• Turf interaction
• Looks
• Good shot feel
• Feel = result

The Bad:

• Toe strikes are penalizing
• Thin and toe shots can hurt the hands 
• Sometimes have too much side spin 

The in-between:

• No big wow factor
• The 5 iron has holes milled out of the back. The 5i is one of my favorite irons so maybe they are on to something with the milled out “undercut technology“?!?

• I take very good care of my clubs and they have still gotten many additional dings on them from the soft forged material. 

Play it or Trade it? (17/20)

I think it’s fairly obvious because I’ve played these irons for two seasons that I’m in the “Play it” camp! Haha These irons feel incredible when hit well and provide feedback when not it well.

Distance control is top notch!  The turf interaction with Michigan weather/grasses is so nice! They look good!

All of that being said, I do think I would benefit from something a LITTLE more forgiving. I also like to hit iron shots as straight as possible and more forgiving irons usually keep the ball flying straighter. I’m certainly in no hurry to replace them and I may try things like lighter graphite shafts or JumboMax grips on these 659 CBs before moving to a different iron. 

 

TL;DR: Final score (87/100):

I have thoroughly enjoyed using the Sub70 659 CB irons since April 2023! They look good! Distance control for me and my main miss is great! Turf interaction with the mini V-sole I love! All that being said, where I’m at in my game, I could benefit from irons that are a bit more forgiving!

If you’re looking for an iron set that looks good and can get the job done without shelling out for big OEM prices, these irons should be on your short list! 

Great and thorough review.  Greatly appreciated that this was also a long term review.  Well done @jbern.  

[jbern]

14 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

Great and thorough review.  Greatly appreciated that this was also a long term review.  Well done @jbern.  

Thanks! I saw, in the Good Morning Thread, that you made another trip to TXG for a gapping session. I do think that's something that I need to do again. I have a feeling the soft forged irons have bent a bit after two seasons of use!

[Cfhandyman]

3 minutes ago, jbern said:

Thanks! I saw, in the Good Morning Thread, that you made another trip to TXG for a gapping session. I do think that's something that I need to do again. I have a feeling the soft forged irons have bent a bit after two seasons of use!

Jaron, I try and do it once a year to make sure gapping is where it needs to be and/or loft and lie adjustments.  I was noticing I was hitting my 8 iron really well and 7 iron not so well, to the point there was only a few yards of separating the two. Upon measurement, lofts were where they needed to be, but 8 iron lie angle was 2 degrees flatter than 7 iron.  Fitter bent remaining irons 2 degrees flatter and voila,  problem solved.  Now hitting 7 iron well and proper gapping restored of about 12 yards between clubs. Best part, it cost me nothing as that’s included in the service when you purchase from them. But I will take care of my friend and fitter at a later date as thank you. 

[jbern]

On 10/30/2024 at 10:10 AM, Cfhandyman said:

Jaron, I try and do it once a year to make sure gapping is where it needs to be and/or loft and lie adjustments.  I was noticing I was hitting my 8 iron really well and 7 iron not so well, to the point there was only a few yards of separating the two. Upon measurement, lofts were where they needed to be, but 8 iron lie angle was 2 degrees flatter than 7 iron.  Fitter bent remaining irons 2 degrees flatter and voila,  problem solved.  Now hitting 7 iron well and proper gapping restored of about 12 yards between clubs. Best part, it cost me nothing as that’s included in the service when you purchase from them. But I will take care of my friend and fitter at a later date as thank you. 

These 659CBs have not been checked for loft/lie in the time that I've had them. It's probably something I need to put on my to-do list! I don't like having excuses like that when I'm out on the course !