Mini Driver, Shorter Driver Shaft, or Choke Down on a Standard Length Driver

[Shrek74]

With the mini drivers being on the minds of golfers these days (and lots of YT'ers), a couple additional questions have emerged that's related to this discussion.

Should I use a shorter shaft with my driver, or just choke down on the regular length?
Is a shorter shafted driver better than a mini driver?

Here's one YT review - https://youtu.be/lje8mbuUxG4?si=aQie4140MbB5wav1
Here's another - https://youtu.be/kw-2X5vESNc?si=1Ns0_K3_hNqBwm6k
Another - https://youtu.be/I9oafOH7Pgk?si=G4urQBHhuWjoeSRZ
Yet Another - https://youtu.be/W9DDwxiRsHE?si=pGVN7N1UczrgLlv4

There are a bunch more that are related to one or both of these questions.

Let me share my take on these.

That first one is really personal choice. I would not want to have ~1.5" of extra shaft sticking out behind my hands in my swing. It doesn't feel natural to me, and getting so far down the grip is not ideal. If you only choke down ~1/2", it might be ok. But I'd be down well over an inch, and to me it's too far down the grip. With the shaft cut shorter, it will feel a little stiffer in the butt section. But for me, I have no issue as my normal shafts have been a bit butt stiff to begin with (HZRDUS line is more butt stiff in general). From the various YT reviews, both seem to give the same amount of control and distance. So it comes down to personal preference.

I have both the BRNR Mini and Ti 340 Mini and have used them both all season long, swapping them in and out replacing each other. I have found them both to be accurate enough when struck around the middle, and with the same distance (or more) that I was getting with previous drivers (at normal driver length). When really missed on the toe or heel, the performance drops as one would expect from a smaller head like these. With my current swing, I'm probably getting around their max potential, in the 250'ish range.

In a recent PXG fitting, the fitter was able to fit me into one of their Black Ops drivers, but with quite a shorter shaft. We started with a normal length shaft (45.75"), but again I ended up in the heel a lot. We then went to the extreme by putting in a long 3w shaft which had the playing length around 43.5" and I was doing much better. We finally ended up around 44.5", which was helping me find the center more while also giving me better distance and more forgiveness than the mini's have. The forgiveness part is key.

What most of the YT'ers have found is that the shorter length driver tends to be the better option for several reasons. Firstly and secondly, it was shown to have more ball speed and thus be longer than the mini's. Thirdly, it is built to be much more forgiving with that larger footprint than the mini's. This really shows when the mini is struck poorly, you lose a lot more distance and control compared to a mishit on the shorter driver. I found this on course when I would play a round with my Miz STMax driver and have a mishit. I might be off the fairway, but not badly and not a ton shorter. But with the mini's, I found myself a bit farther off the fairway and a bit more distance loss.

So what am I doing? Next season the mini's will sit, outside of a little comparison work. I will put the shorter length Ti 340 shaft in my TD Max and see how she works compared to the mini. I may also cut down my Miz STMax and see how she works as well. But after seeing the results from the PXG fitting, I'm liking the shorter driver option for all the reason mentioned above.

 

 

[vandyland]

I play a shorter driver shaft (44.5") and 4 Wood shaft is significantly short (41.5"). I find I hit the middle a bit more with a shorter shaft and don't give up that much distance. The mini drivers are fascinating but if you can get the weight right in the driver head, I think a shorter shaft suits more people. 

[The TXBexar]

2 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

In a recent PXG fitting, the fitter was able to fit me into one of their Black Ops drivers, but with quite a shorter shaft. We started with a normal length shaft (45.75"), but again I ended up in the heel a lot. We then went to the extreme by putting in a long 3w shaft which had the playing length around 43.5" and I was doing much better. We finally ended up around 44.5", which was helping me find the center more while also giving me better distance and more forgiveness than the mini's have. The forgiveness part is key.

What most of the YT'ers have found is that the shorter length driver tends to be the better option for several reasons. Firstly and secondly, it was shown to have more ball speed and thus be longer than the mini's. Thirdly, it is built to be much more forgiving with that larger footprint than the mini's. 

So what am I doing? Next season the mini's will sit, outside of a little comparison work. I will put the shorter length Ti 340 shaft in my TD Max and see how she works compared to the mini. I may also cut down my Miz STMax and see how she works as well. But after seeing the results from the PXG fitting, I'm liking the shorter driver option for all the reason mentioned above.

I think trying the same shorter driver length shaft in one of your Mini's to see how that directly compares with your regular driver will be interesting to see which truly does work better for you, and I'm definitely interested in the results you come up with. I know a few guys here on the forum have found that using a shorter shaft, such as a 3W shaft, on their Mini's has turned them into a laser beam, basically.

With the more forgiving driver heads (including the mini's) it seems that is a better option then some of the woods now-a-days; but if your finding the full-sized driver heads are even more forgiving then the Mini's, which because of how the driver heads are designed, that absolutely makes more sense from an Engineering stand-point. MOI plays into Forgiveness if I'm not mistaken, so if you have a bigger face that will allow for a larger "center" of the face that hits well on the ball even if it's off-center by 1.0", because it gives a greater distance to miss-hit the ball by and still not be in the more dangerous "miss-hit zones" on the edges of the face.

I've been looking into the math myself lately, as I honestly think I'm on the path of going to a One-Length set for my Irons, the same length used for all my Hybrids, and then even looking at changing my driver to a 3W/5W shaft length and adding a mini the bag with the same 3W/5W shaft length to fill out the top end, which would bring them closer in legth to my hybrid lengths as well. The reason why I think I'm heading this way is because the math seems to support that this is a better "consistency" option over the more traditional club set-ups (where each club possibly has a different length, albeit only by about 0.25" at times), especially when mixed with adjusting the lies of the clubs as well to better suit these club lengths.

What I'm finding, and what I mean when I say "By the Math," is that the more you change your swing between clubs, the less you are able to make your same consistent swing on the ball; pretty straight forward and understandable; So, for the longer clubs (such as driver & fairways woods), where you find yourself addressing the ball from further away due to the length of the club, that means you have to make adjustments in your swing to approach the ball in your swing correctly, which will be different then when your address & approach the ball with your irons or wedges; This results in needing to have drastically different swings between the 2 different types of clubs.

Traditionally, we know there have been players that have been amazing iron-strikers but they usually are lacking in the Distance-off-the-Tee category, and vis-a-versa. Also, we know that the closer you can address the ball, the more control over the ball you are able to have, which helps explain why some of those great iron-strikers don't have the same ability correlate over to the drivers. This (plus a lot of actual mechanical & technical reading on books & videos of swing analytics by some of the best golf swings to ever play the game) leads me to truly believe that if we started to apply this to the longer hitting clubs in our bags, we should be able to take control of our swings by reducing the variance of our club lengths & lies, which will reduce the approach distance between us & the ball for our different clubs to a minimum. In doing so, we should see we are able to produce greater consistency in over-all ball striking throughout our bags, which should then also correlate to better accuracy and, with today's club tech, better distance too.

Now traditionally, due to mechanics of materials used for clubs over-time, when you shorten the club length & lie you should loose swing power as your not able to get as much range of motion &distance the club head travels, resulting in slower swing speeds/ball speeds. However, with today's tech, this isn't really the case anymore; we have graphite shafts that are as stiff, if not stiffer, then steel shafts which allow us to impart just as much energy transfer as we were able to produce previously with the longer club lengths and see similar, if not better, swing & ball speeds with a swing path that allows us more control with the ball and our ball-striking. With heads that are more forgiving on miss-hits, and that have massive power potential when you nail the screws on the head, this should mitigate any power lose with our shorter swing plans, and honestly provide us with better hit results due to being able to more consistently hitting the center of the face.

I realize that I wrote a ton there, but basically what I'm saying is that to answer your posts-title question, with upgrading the shafts to better fit your swing & shortening your driver shaft to give you a better, more controlled swing as well, this seems to be be the correct answer & solution to your problem; Even if you keep the regular driver head instead of going with a mini-head driver head, from the science/engineering side of the equation, the math & science backs your decision here and should give you some impressive results. 

 

[Josh Parker]

I have really liked my mini with the 44.75in shaft in it.  I like the smaller head/profile and for whatever reason find the center of the face more.  

[Josh Parker]

10 minutes ago, The TXBexar said:

Traditionally, we know there have been players that have been amazing iron-strikers but they usually are lacking in the Distance-off-the-Tee category, and vis-a-versa. Also, we know that the closer you can address the ball, the more control over the ball you are able to have, which helps explain why some of those great iron-strikers don't have the same ability correlate over to the drivers. This (plus a lot of actual mechanical & technical reading on books & videos of swing analytics by some of the best golf swings to ever play the game) leads me to truly believe that if we started to apply this to the longer hitting clubs in our bags, we should be able to take control of our swings by reducing the variance of our club lengths & lies, which will reduce the approach distance between us & the ball for our different clubs to a minimum. In doing so, we should see we are able to produce greater consistency in over-all ball striking throughout our bags, which should then also correlate to better accuracy and, with today's club tech, better distance too.

This would be a very interesting test.  I wonder if you shortened said driver shaft to a 41/42 in shaft but also lowered the loft to say 8* or less, could you hit up on the ball easier and get the same distance/height from it as you could with say a 10.5* and 45in shaft?

[KC Golf]

I choke down on my 45.5” driver and it’s money.  Love it! Helps that I game the Dream 7!

[The TXBexar]

3 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

This would be a very interesting test.  I wonder if you shortened said driver shaft to a 41/42 in shaft but also lowered the loft to say 8* or less, could you hit up on the ball easier and get the same distance/height from it as you could with say a 10.5* and 45in shaft?

To actually test this, would take a lot more equipment then what I have at my disposal in my garage lol, but with the different driver heads out there, such as using the G430 MAX 10k or the Cobra Dark Speed-X/Adapt-X or Ai Smoke Triple-Diamond MAX, these all should be able to get down to a 9Deg loft pretty easily with the existing hosel options. That plus some of the after-market shafts out there, such as using a TPT 14-17Hi Fairway/hybrid shaft options shortened down to their lowest spec available, should give some damn good power & weight combos that, without too much adjustments, should result in some booming frozen ropes off the deck or off a short tee from the tee box. 

Issue is with this is whether or not if we start getting into the realm of breaking the mechanical characteristics of the shafts and that having such a big head on such a short shaft could result in some crazy torque & moments of force on the shaft that would result in literally snapping the shaft on impact with the ball? **Cough Cough** Mister Ambassador, sounds like a potential good testing opportunity for you to experiment with lol.

[Erin B]

@Shrek74 I play a shorter shaft than my driver.

Edited October 29 by Erin B

[Erin B]

2 hours ago, The TXBexar said:

To actually test this, would take a lot more equipment then what I have at my disposal in my garage lol, but with the different driver heads out there, such as using the G430 MAX 10k or the Cobra Dark Speed-X/Adapt-X or Ai Smoke Triple-Diamond MAX, these all should be able to get down to a 9Deg loft pretty easily with the existing hosel options. That plus some of the after-market shafts out there, such as using a TPT 14-17Hi Fairway/hybrid shaft options shortened down to their lowest spec available, should give some damn good power & weight combos that, without too much adjustments, should result in some booming frozen ropes off the deck or off a short tee from the tee box. 

Issue is with this is whether or not if we start getting into the realm of breaking the mechanical characteristics of the shafts and that having such a big head on such a short shaft could result in some crazy torque & moments of force on the shaft that would result in literally snapping the shaft on impact with the ball? **Cough Cough** Mister Ambassador, sounds like a potential good testing opportunity for you to experiment with lol.

I’d be willing to try it next season

[slash25rc]

I have played driver shafts as short as 43.5 and always found it to be easier. My UB right now is at 44 3/8 grip to tip and plan on cutting my 4W down an inch or buying a shorter shaft, which might be easier since the local fitting/repairs shop flooded and driving 35 minutes to take care of it seems like too much work. 

[Erin B]

18 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

I have really liked my mini with the 44.75in shaft in it.  I like the smaller head/profile and for whatever reason find the center of the face more.  

I think I’m at the same length. After our rounds I put the Callaway back in the bag and play it as a 2 and the BRNR as the 3. I’m teeing off on shorter par 4s with the Callaway now. So I’m no longer angry with ol girl !

[The TXBexar]

15 hours ago, Erin B said:

I’d be willing to try it next season

No Guarantee's on what will be the result because the science has too many parts in that impact the performance results to truly know what will actually occur lol. 

But with today's advancement in Driver Heads technology, coupled to a shorter shaft that gives you more control & accuracy on your swing, the power lose from a shorter shaft should be able to be more the off-set by using a slightly faster swing speed plus a more accurate, center-of-face impact on these hot drivers. Overall potential max-distance will assuredly be lessened with this kind of set-up, but if we're unable to achieve anything near the potential max-distance anyways, then why not lose some of that potential to gain an over-all increase in our average distance that we will typically see? 

[Josh Parker]

1 hour ago, Erin B said:

I think I’m at the same length. After our rounds I put the Callaway back in the bag and play it as a 2 and the BRNR as the 3. I’m teeing off on shorter par 4s with the Callaway now. So I’m no longer angry with ol girl !

I have found the mini to be surprisingly forgiving. 

[RetiredBoomer]

6 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

I have found the mini to be surprisingly forgiving. 

The shorter length makes it more forgiving, and to some degree, the higher loft as well.

If you take, for just one example, an 11° GT 2 with the loft set at 11.75°,

cut it down an inch to 44½",

and add 4 grams to restore the swing-weight,

that will have the forgiveness of a mini-driver with the added forgiveness of a full sized head.

If you want to use the mini-driver as a 2-wood from the fairway, that's a different story.

 

[Josh Parker]

2 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

The shorter length makes it more forgiving, and to some degree, the higher loft as well.

If you take, for just one example, an 11° GT 2 with the loft set at 11.75°,

cut it down an inch to 44½",

and add 4 grams to restore the swing-weight,

that will have the forgiveness of a mini-driver with the added forgiveness of a full sized head.

If you want to use the mini-driver as a 2-wood from the fairway, that's a different story.

 

My mini is the 13.5* and what i have found with the smaller head is that i hit center face more often than the larger head. I can also draw the mini easier than the larger profile. 

I have the GT3 in 11* turned down and it's been great!  

[RetiredBoomer]

11 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

My mini is the 13.5* and what i have found with the smaller head is that i hit center face more often than the larger head. I can also draw the mini easier than the larger profile. 

I have the GT3 in 11* turned down and it's been great!  

Excellent.
If that's how it works for you, you've chosen the right club.

Just the same, though, in most cases, hitting the center of a smaller face

would normally be attributed to the shorter shaft, not the smaller head.

However, there are exceptions to every rule,

and the more inviting look of the clubhead might allow you to swing better with more confidence.

 

 

Edited October 30 by RetiredBoomer

[Josh Parker]

14 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

Excellent.
If that's how it works for you, you've chosen the right club.

Just the same, though, in most cases, hitting the center of a smaller face

would normally be attributed to the shorter shaft, not the smaller head.

However, there are exceptions to every rule,

and the more inviting look of the clubhead might allow you to swing better with more confidence.

 

 

Trust me..... it's strange. Even my coach can't make sense of it.  

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

Trust me..... it's strange. Even my coach can't make sense of it.  

It just how it works.  This is why some high handicap golfers hit players irons better than GI.  

[Josh Parker]

1 minute ago, cnosil said:

It just how it works.  This is why some high handicap golfers hit players irons better than GI.  

Very true!  Had i not hit the GT3 so well,  the plan was to get the TM mini in 11.5 and turn it down and use as a driver. 

[The TXBexar]

3 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

Trust me..... it's strange. Even my coach can't make sense of it.  

If I had to guess, I'd say it's your natural ability to Aim Small, Miss small. Smaller head means less room for the ball to make contact with the head, and it's easier for you to visualize the center of the face hitting the center of the ball that way. Some people perform better under-pressure, knowing that they have to be just right or this won't work at all and it works well for them; others don't & it doesn't work for them lol

[Josh Parker]

1 hour ago, The TXBexar said:

If I had to guess, I'd say it's your natural ability to Aim Small, Miss small. Smaller head means less room for the ball to make contact with the head, and it's easier for you to visualize the center of the face hitting the center of the ball that way. Some people perform better under-pressure, knowing that they have to be just right or this won't work at all and it works well for them; others don't & it doesn't work for them lol

Probably a very valid point. 

[tbliggins]

I was struggling off the tee at the end of 22 into 23 and tried choking down on my driver. It didn't help me at all so I ordered a Paradym with a shorter (and heavier) shaft and it made a world of difference. Only lost a little distance when comparing really well struck drives. But I was keeping it in play so much more that it was a win. This summer I ordered the Callaway Mini just out of curiosity and it was basically the same result. Very little distance lost on well struck drives, but I hit it even more consistently. For some reason I just have more confidence in making a good swing looking at that smaller head behind the ball. But I don't think my experience (or @Josh Parker's) is the typical one.

[JDHolmes]

I use a Callaway Epic Max 12 degree driver, turned up to 13 degrees with a 3 wood shaft as a 190-200 yard option for off the tee box. I also use it off the deck in the fairway in windy conditions.

It's an alternative to my 3 wood which, when hit well, goes 210+, 5 wood about 180ish and here, I needed a 200ish option for par 3's that are that long and layup drives to that point.

It's way easier to hit straight and well than the 3 wood which usually fades/cuts, often off the green right when not hit fully.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Erin B]

On 10/29/2024 at 10:27 AM, Shrek74 said:

With the mini drivers being on the minds of golfers these days (and lots of YT'ers), a couple additional questions have emerged that's related to this discussion.

Should I use a shorter shaft with my driver, or just choke down on the regular length?
Is a shorter shafted driver better than a mini driver?

Here's one YT review - https://youtu.be/lje8mbuUxG4?si=aQie4140MbB5wav1
Here's another - https://youtu.be/kw-2X5vESNc?si=1Ns0_K3_hNqBwm6k
Another - https://youtu.be/I9oafOH7Pgk?si=G4urQBHhuWjoeSRZ
Yet Another - https://youtu.be/W9DDwxiRsHE?si=pGVN7N1UczrgLlv4

There are a bunch more that are related to one or both of these questions.

Let me share my take on these.

That first one is really personal choice. I would not want to have ~1.5" of extra shaft sticking out behind my hands in my swing. It doesn't feel natural to me, and getting so far down the grip is not ideal. If you only choke down ~1/2", it might be ok. But I'd be down well over an inch, and to me it's too far down the grip. With the shaft cut shorter, it will feel a little stiffer in the butt section. But for me, I have no issue as my normal shafts have been a bit butt stiff to begin with (HZRDUS line is more butt stiff in general). From the various YT reviews, both seem to give the same amount of control and distance. So it comes down to personal preference.

I have both the BRNR Mini and Ti 340 Mini and have used them both all season long, swapping them in and out replacing each other. I have found them both to be accurate enough when struck around the middle, and with the same distance (or more) that I was getting with previous drivers (at normal driver length). When really missed on the toe or heel, the performance drops as one would expect from a smaller head like these. With my current swing, I'm probably getting around their max potential, in the 250'ish range.

In a recent PXG fitting, the fitter was able to fit me into one of their Black Ops drivers, but with quite a shorter shaft. We started with a normal length shaft (45.75"), but again I ended up in the heel a lot. We then went to the extreme by putting in a long 3w shaft which had the playing length around 43.5" and I was doing much better. We finally ended up around 44.5", which was helping me find the center more while also giving me better distance and more forgiveness than the mini's have. The forgiveness part is key.

What most of the YT'ers have found is that the shorter length driver tends to be the better option for several reasons. Firstly and secondly, it was shown to have more ball speed and thus be longer than the mini's. Thirdly, it is built to be much more forgiving with that larger footprint than the mini's. This really shows when the mini is struck poorly, you lose a lot more distance and control compared to a mishit on the shorter driver. I found this on course when I would play a round with my Miz STMax driver and have a mishit. I might be off the fairway, but not badly and not a ton shorter. But with the mini's, I found myself a bit farther off the fairway and a bit more distance loss.

So what am I doing? Next season the mini's will sit, outside of a little comparison work. I will put the shorter length Ti 340 shaft in my TD Max and see how she works compared to the mini. I may also cut down my Miz STMax and see how she works as well. But after seeing the results from the PXG fitting, I'm liking the shorter driver option for all the reason mentioned above.

 

 

You bring up great points. I too have the 340AI and the BRNR, and have shortened the shaft on my driver to 44.5. I now play the driver as 1 wood, 340 as 2 wood, and BRNR as 3 wood. This format is working pretty well. The BRNR plays perfect for me off the deck. I have it set at 13.5. The 340 at 11.5. The driver at 9. I often Tee off with the 340 on tighter fairways. The most reliable of the three is the BRNR and can get sometimes 265 ish but usually 235-245. The 340 consistently 250-275. I have gotten 300 but not often. The driver is a work in progress but bomb it on center hits to 275-285. I have hit 300+ often enough to keep it in the bag. I’m only using it on longer par 4 and all par 5s. My biggest issue is I’m in between Xstiff and stiff shafts. The BRNR stiff shaft is nearly perfect with that head but sometimes hits a strong draw when I get a little too strong. The 340 is Xstiff in the ventus shaft. I put the MMT Xstiff in the driver and have found it plays nicest with that shaft. In my experience, the shaft makes all the difference with golf clubs. I guess you can call me a shaft junkie, but I’ve been studying and learning about shafts more and more. I’m really liking my woods setup the way I described above and doubt I’ll be changing it anytime soon. I do think I’m going to add more hybrids and dropping the 5 iron and maybe even the 6 iron. Time will tell, but that’s the direction I’m leaning to. I’m also going to check out the one length club idea next week. If that works out, I may be headed in another direction irons and hybrid wise. Sticking to the 1, 2, 3 woods deal I have going on now though.

Edited November 23 by Erin B

[CPP]

Well for me its a little different. I like the shorter shaft in my mini 340. What I have a problem with ( yeah I know its visual) its the large driver heads. I still have a Great Big Bertha Hawk Eye Driver head size is 250cc and I can get behind that thing and connect.  But these new 400cc plus heads, my mind can't handle it. Yeah weird I know.