Can you be fit into ANY club?

[Rob Person]

So i recently was able to hit a set of Titleist blades, and boy of boy did I hit them well.

Since then I've had this thought churning in the back of my head, and thought maybe I'd put it out there.

Can you be fit into ANY BRAND of clubs and play them as well as any other brand out there if the specs match up to you?

What is it about a specific brand that makes you sway away from another brand.

With all the info out there about shaft technology,  adjusting lofts, lies, grips, etc, could you take say a cheap DTC, ebay or marketplace set, or even a cheap bag set brand, and be able to change a few things and get them to perform as well as a high dollar name brand set?

We have alot of tinkerers and expert club builders here, and they seem to be able to do this well. 

I've never been fit, but when I do I will be loaded with tons of information, thanks to the great blogs here and information posted all around the forums.

I'm also considering waaaay down the road, after being fit, taking those numbers and data, and trying to translate that into building a well performing set to match my game. I would have to still take them to be adjusted.

So why is there a need go to a high end set over a lesser, older, or cheaper set?

[Shankster]

Buy the blades.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

16 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

So i recently was able to hit a set of Titleist blades, and boy of boy did I hit them well.

Since then I've had this thought churning in the back of my head, and thought maybe I'd put it out there.

Can you be fit into ANY BRAND of clubs and play them as well as any other brand out there if the specs match up to you?

What is it about a specific brand that makes you sway away from another brand.

With all the info out there about shaft technology,  adjusting lofts, lies, grips, etc, could you take say a cheap DTC, ebay or marketplace set, or even a cheap bag set brand, and be able to change a few things and get them to perform as well as a high dollar name brand set?

We have alot of tinkerers and expert club builders here, and they seem to be able to do this well. 

I've never been fit, but when I do I will be loaded with tons of information, thanks to the great blogs here and information posted all around the forums.

I'm also considering waaaay down the road, after being fit, taking those numbers and data, and trying to translate that into building a well performing set to match my game. I would have to still take them to be adjusted.

So why is there a need go to a high end set over a lesser, older, or cheaper set?

The true answer is it depends. 

[DaveP043]

This could be heresy in a gear-oriented forum like MGS, but I believe most players can find a club and shaft that works for them from any decent manufacturer.  I play Titleist irons (T200 from the MGS review I did), but I'm certain I could find Srixon or TM or Callaway or Sub70 or many other clubs that would work well for me.  I believe most make a range of clubheads from most forgiving to most "demanding", and have a good variety of shaft options.  

[RichL85]

This seems like it is a bit of a similar debate to the brand-specific vs. brand agnostic fitting situation. Yes, of course, in theory, a completely brand agnostic fitting should be able to find a player the absolute best setup for them. However, in practice, there is simply not enough time or swings in a person to try literally every single combination out there, just like even the most equipped fitting location likely will not have every possibility available. On the flip side, a brand-specific fitting, has less choices to go through, and the fitters should have a very good grasp of their product and be able to narrow things down fairly quickly to find a setup that works. Will it be the absolute best? Maybe, maybe not? Depending on the type of person, they may need that confirmation that Brand X wouldn't have something better and they will never be happy at a brand-specific fitting. Realistically, I believe that every company, especially the major companies, make a wide enough range of products to fit just about anyone with something that is very good. 

So, for the most part, I believe I could take components from various sources, and construct a set of clubs that would work. I will also state that my Titleist GT fitting showed me very clearly that information available online does not always match up with the real world. Similar to what @DaveP043 said, I could take an appropriate head from just about any major manufacturer, and find a shaft that would make them work for me, it might be a different shaft depending on the nature of the head, but I could find something that works overall. I don't, however, believe that I am at a point where any amount of fitter expertise is going to make something like a TM P7MB work for me. 

[Rob Person]

So my line of thinking leads me to believe that if I knew my specific fitting data well enough,  that i could in theory find a set of lightly used name brand irons made from the last 6-10 years,  find a deal on shafts that match my needs,  I could build a set in the hundreds of dollars  that would work just as well as if I spent thousands on a new set. (Technology not withstanding)

I've combed over some of the older testing threads looking for models that were peak performers for their time.  And knowing there are a number of members here that I read still play them, I feel encouraged I could accomplish this way way down the road as funds permit.

First thing though, is to save up for an iron fitting!

[Shankster]

Just now, Rob Person said:

So my line of thinking leads me to believe that if I knew my specific fitting data well enough,  that i could in theory find a set of lightly used name brand irons made from the last 6-10 years,  find a deal on shafts that match my needs,  I could build a set in the hundreds of dollars  that would work just as well as if I spent thousands on a new set. (Technology not withstanding)

I've combed over some of the older testing threads looking for models that were peak performers for their time.  And knowing there are a number of members here that I read still play them, I feel encouraged I could accomplish this way way down the road as funds permit.

First thing though, is to save up for an iron fitting!

Look for a demo day.  They usually are reps that are there to give you a fitting.  PING from my experience is very accommodating during these types of events.  Most of the other brands are too.

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

So my line of thinking leads me to believe that if I knew my specific fitting data well enough,  that i could in theory find a set of lightly used name brand irons made from the last 6-10 years,  find a deal on shafts that match my needs,  I could build a set in the hundreds of dollars  that would work just as well as if I spent thousands on a new set. (Technology not withstanding)

Might not be a perfect fit but you could get close.   The problem is that heads have different designs.   Things like head weight and CoG will influence rotation, launch, and spin.  I am a low spin player so I tend to do better with clubs that generate a bit more spin.  During MGS testing is see clubs that may be more left biased and others right.   Yes clubs with the same lofts will launch and spin differently.

[Rob Person]

13 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Might not be a perfect fit but you could get close.   The problem is that heads have different designs.   Things like head weight and CoG will influence rotation, launch, and spin.  I am a low spin player so I tend to do better with clubs that generate a bit more spin.  During MGS testing is see clubs that may be more left biased and others right.   Yes clubs with the same lofts will launch and spin differently.

Thanks for that info 

 I've only scratched the surface when it comes to this stuff. I'm not a data heavy person,  but rely on real feel to help me through alot of it. Obviously I'm going to have to dig a little deeper when I decide to move forward more.

This begs another question, and I see it mentioned alot. " the clubs performed great, but i didn't like the feel"

I know it's specific to each individual,  but if the numbers are there to back up performance,  why stray from it?  Is it ego, confidence,  or something else.

I know alot people gawf when they see me playing my Stix clubs.  Are they perfect? Nope, but they perform very well for me so far.  I've let strangers hit them, and seeing the surprise on their face when they do as well as their top of the line clubs is something for me to behold. 

 

[cnosil]

13 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

This begs another question, and I see it mentioned alot. " the clubs performed great, but i didn't like the feel"

I know it's specific to each individual,  but if the numbers are there to back up performance,  why stray from it?  Is it ego, confidence,  or something else.

 

People seem to associate looks and feel with confidence and their ability to make the clubs perform.  

[Shankster]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

People seem to associate looks and feel with confidence and their ability to make the clubs perform.  

Agree 1000%.  When I look at clubs with massive (edit: ANY) amount of offset I won’t even give them the time of day.  Doesn’t have to be the smallest club head toe to heel, but a razor thin top line and minimal to no offset is what I prefer.  It gives me confidence, more so than a chunky SGI/GI ever could.  I am also really starting to enjoy drivers that sit a few degrees open.  It just looks right.

Edited November 7 by Shankster

[Josh Parker]

15 hours ago, Shankster said:

Buy the blades.  

I second and third this motion! 

*******

In theory you could take any club with the right specs and be able to play them.  In theory you are going to get a lot of different results with those same specs.  Spin, distance, height are just a few things that can massively change between heads.  Take my Srixons mkII zx7's and the PXG Gen 7 irons.  I was seeing almost 3k less spin with the PXG's.  Now, I'm hitting them twice as high and the same distance so having them stop for me isn't an issue.  Same general result, but very different in delivery.

[Rob Person]

3 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

I second and third this motion! 

*******

In theory you could take any club with the right specs and be able to play them.  In theory you are going to get a lot of different results with those same specs.  Spin, distance, height are just a few things that can massively change between heads.  Take my Srixons mkII zx7's and the PXG Gen 7 irons.  I was seeing almost 3k less spin with the PXG's.  Now, I'm hitting them twice as high and the same distance so having them stop for me isn't an issue.  Same general result, but very different in delivery.

Thanks. I realize that in practical sides of things, it's all about the optimal performance.  Now what if you took those same clubs and tweaked them to match the results that the others give?

Would it be shafts, loft and lie adjustments,  something else? Or would doing that simply change every characteristic of them, amd defeat  why you bought them in the first place?

[Josh Parker]

11 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Thanks. I realize that in practical sides of things, it's all about the optimal performance.  Now what if you took those same clubs and tweaked them to match the results that the others give?

Would it be shafts, loft and lie adjustments,  something else? Or would doing that simply change every characteristic of them, amd defeat  why you bought them in the first place?

You have different characteristics that change all sorts of data.  The materials they are made of. Head weight.  There is so much that can change from club to club. 

[TR1PTIK]

10 hours ago, Shankster said:

Agree 1000%.  When I look at clubs with massive (edit: ANY) amount of offset I won’t even give them the time of day.  Doesn’t have to be the smallest club head toe to heel, but a razor thin top line and minimal to no offset is what I prefer.  It gives me confidence, more so than a chunky SGI/GI ever could.  I am also really starting to enjoy drivers that sit a few degrees open.  It just looks right.

Same here. And the more I see of the true, zero offset clubs, the more I want to try one. I'd really be interested in a set of Cobra RF blades if I thought I could actually game them, but I'm still looking for a little more tech in my irons. I want to be honest about my skill level and what I actually need in an iron.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Rob Person said:

Thanks. I realize that in practical sides of things, it's all about the optimal performance.  Now what if you took those same clubs and tweaked them to match the results that the others give?

Would it be shafts, loft and lie adjustments,  something else? Or would doing that simply change every characteristic of them, amd defeat  why you bought them in the first place?

It could be more and it would be club dependent.   Here is an example:  

a heavier clubhead or a clubhead with the CoG more toward the toe would in theory rotate slower which would deliver the clubface more open.   How do you fix that?  Maybe a lighter  shaft, maybe remove some weight from the head,  maybe something else.  How does the shaft influence delivery which means you need to adjust loft and lie.  If the clubs are cast, can they be bent the necessary amount?  You are now starting to experiment post purchase. Does the post purchase experimenting result in a cost close to or exceeding buying the original clubs you were fit into?   

[Shankster]

2 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

Same here. And the more I see of the true, zero offset clubs, the more I want to try one. I'd really be interested in a set of Cobra RF blades if I thought I could actually game them, but I'm still looking for a little more tech in my irons. I want to be honest about my skill level and what I actually need in an iron.

Give them a try.  Just because some “pro” on YouTube says they are scary doesn’t mean that you will.  Like I’ve mentioned, anything that I can see the back of the blade sticking out scares me, because that wide sole means thin city

[release]

I used to be able to pick up any right handed set and do well with them when I was younger and my game was on top.

Aging really put a dent in my golf game.  I can still swing most the sets out there but might not do well with all of them now.

 

[Krls032022]

I firmly believe if I have been fitted with the correct shaft, the club head isn’t that important 

[Andrew75]

On 11/7/2024 at 4:47 AM, Josh Parker said:

I second and third this motion! 

*******

In theory you could take any club with the right specs and be able to play them.  In theory you are going to get a lot of different results with those same specs.  Spin, distance, height are just a few things that can massively change between heads.  Take my Srixons mkII zx7's and the PXG Gen 7 irons.  I was seeing almost 3k less spin with the PXG's.  Now, I'm hitting them twice as high and the same distance so having them stop for me isn't an issue.  Same general result, but very different in delivery.

Lee Trevino always said, "when you hit the ball high you tend to be less accurate, especially", he added, "under pressure.". I've long agreed with this. With few exceptions, when I try any new club, the first thing I look for is whether I can flight these down. A good fit for me will be an I can make a rhythmic swing at flighting down a low draw that goes a certain carry distance based on the clubs loft.  With the driver, basically the same.  If the club can't be hit low easily I'm not interested. Sure, stopping it quickly on a green would be nice, but I'm content to know both carry and toll out distance and play accordingly. I've come across many clubs I find needlessly difficult to flight low.

[GolfSpy_APH]

20 minutes ago, Andrew75 said:

Lee Trevino always said, "when you hit the ball high you tend to be less accurate, especially", he added, "under pressure.". I've long agreed with this. With few exceptions, when I try any new club, the first thing I look for is whether I can flight these down. A good fit for me will be an I can make a rhythmic swing at flighting down a low draw that goes a certain carry distance based on the clubs loft.  With the driver, basically the same.  If the club can't be hit low easily I'm not interested. Sure, stopping it quickly on a green would be nice, but I'm content to know both carry and toll out distance and play accordingly. I've come across many clubs I find needlessly difficult to flight low.

Sadly that is not a very viable option with the course I play. If you can't hit it high and have it stop you can't access pins.

Great for links, but is very much course to course.

[JWK1969]

I think the answer is split.  Yes, any player can be fit into any set of clubs.  However, will every set, even if fit to a particular golfer, produce the same results?  I think the answer to that is no.  

Some of the different results will be shown on the trackman, some will just be psychiatric.  When shopping for clubs previously, I went to a demo day where several brands were showing off their wares.  I had been playing TaylorMade Burner clubs for quite some time, and my game had improved through practice and play, so it was time to step up to some more suitable clubs.  Each booth had a Trackman and a full complement of shafts and club heads to try to mix and match to get the best results.  The TaylorMade irons that were most suitable for me at the time were the P-790s, and I just flat out didn't like how they felt.  They felt hard and clicky even when I flushed them.  In contrast, the Calloway Apex, Mizuno JPX919 Forged, and Titleist T (I forget the number) irons produced a better connection, a softer feel with no loss of performance, and thus overall more confidence.  I just felt better standing over one of those irons as opposed to the P-790s.  The TMs were great clubs, don't get me wrong, and I know a number of people that swear by them.  But they just didn't work for me.  I could get fit into them to maximize the results I got from them, but I was never confident with them.

Also, given the different categories of clubs (players, players distance, game improvement, etc.), I think that makes it harder to truly fit everyone into every club.  They are designed to do different things, like forgiveness v. workability.  If you're a game improvement golfer, I am sure a fitter could find a formulation that would provide the best return from a particular set of irons, including the T-100 Titleists or even blades, but to do that would the fitter have to conduct the fitting in such a way as to minimize the things that those clubs do best (feel, workability) to avoid the results that a game improvement iron, with less workability but far more forgiveness, would avoid naturally?  And, if the fitter has to "fight" against the natural tendency of a set of blades to produce the best results for a game improvement player, is that really the best answer for the player?  I would think not.

I suppose it goes back to the Jurassic Park conundrum:  "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."

[Rob Person]

53 minutes ago, JWK1969 said:

I think the answer is split.  Yes, any player can be fit into any set of clubs.  However, will every set, even if fit to a particular golfer, produce the same results?  I think the answer to that is no.  

Some of the different results will be shown on the trackman, some will just be psychiatric.  When shopping for clubs previously, I went to a demo day where several brands were showing off their wares.  I had been playing TaylorMade Burner clubs for quite some time, and my game had improved through practice and play, so it was time to step up to some more suitable clubs.  Each booth had a Trackman and a full complement of shafts and club heads to try to mix and match to get the best results.  The TaylorMade irons that were most suitable for me at the time were the P-790s, and I just flat out didn't like how they felt.  They felt hard and clicky even when I flushed them.  In contrast, the Calloway Apex, Mizuno JPX919 Forged, and Titleist T (I forget the number) irons produced a better connection, a softer feel with no loss of performance, and thus overall more confidence.  I just felt better standing over one of those irons as opposed to the P-790s.  The TMs were great clubs, don't get me wrong, and I know a number of people that swear by them.  But they just didn't work for me.  I could get fit into them to maximize the results I got from them, but I was never confident with them.

Also, given the different categories of clubs (players, players distance, game improvement, etc.), I think that makes it harder to truly fit everyone into every club.  They are designed to do different things, like forgiveness v. workability.  If you're a game improvement golfer, I am sure a fitter could find a formulation that would provide the best return from a particular set of irons, including the T-100 Titleists or even blades, but to do that would the fitter have to conduct the fitting in such a way as to minimize the things that those clubs do best (feel, workability) to avoid the results that a game improvement iron, with less workability but far more forgiveness, would avoid naturally?  And, if the fitter has to "fight" against the natural tendency of a set of blades to produce the best results for a game improvement player, is that really the best answer for the player?  I would think not.

I suppose it goes back to the Jurassic Park conundrum:  "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."

Great explanation!!!

[JWK1969]

58 minutes ago, JWK1969 said:

I think the answer is split.  Yes, any player can be fit into any set of clubs.  However, will every set, even if fit to a particular golfer, produce the same results?  I think the answer to that is no.  

Some of the different results will be shown on the trackman, some will just be psychiatric.  When shopping for clubs previously, I went to a demo day where several brands were showing off their wares.  I had been playing TaylorMade Burner clubs for quite some time, and my game had improved through practice and play, so it was time to step up to some more suitable clubs.  Each booth had a Trackman and a full complement of shafts and club heads to try to mix and match to get the best results.  The TaylorMade irons that were most suitable for me at the time were the P-790s, and I just flat out didn't like how they felt.  They felt hard and clicky even when I flushed them.  In contrast, the Calloway Apex, Mizuno JPX919 Forged, and Titleist T (I forget the number) irons produced a better connection, a softer feel with no loss of performance, and thus overall more confidence.  I just felt better standing over one of those irons as opposed to the P-790s.  The TMs were great clubs, don't get me wrong, and I know a number of people that swear by them.  But they just didn't work for me.  I could get fit into them to maximize the results I got from them, but I was never confident with them.

Also, given the different categories of clubs (players, players distance, game improvement, etc.), I think that makes it harder to truly fit everyone into every club.  They are designed to do different things, like forgiveness v. workability.  If you're a game improvement golfer, I am sure a fitter could find a formulation that would provide the best return from a particular set of irons, including the T-100 Titleists or even blades, but to do that would the fitter have to conduct the fitting in such a way as to minimize the things that those clubs do best (feel, workability) to avoid the results that a game improvement iron, with less workability but far more forgiveness, would avoid naturally?  And, if the fitter has to "fight" against the natural tendency of a set of blades to produce the best results for a game improvement player, is that really the best answer for the player?  I would think not.

I suppose it goes back to the Jurassic Park conundrum:  "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."

Apologies for the additional comment to my original post, but a thought just occurred to me.  I would think that the history of club fitting is littered with instances of fitters being "forced" to fit a player into clubs that might not otherwise be ideal for them for reasons of the player being blind to the true state of their game and wanting to game a particular category of club for ego purposes (e.g., the 25 'cap that just has to play blades even though a game improvement iron would be much more suited for their game) or for the simple reason that the player already invested in a particular set of clubs and now the fitter has to make the best of it. 

I narrowly avoided the latter situation a couple of sets of clubs ago.  A friend had a virtually new set of Mizuno JPX919s that he wasn't going to play, and I really like the look and feel of them.  I took them to a fitter before buying them and the fitter effectively talked me out of buying them from my friend because my "miss" at the time really made those clubs unsuitable for me.  I ended up with the Hot Metal version of those clubs (not the Forged) which were a little more forgiving by their nature and would minimize the "miss" I had at the time.  I'm glad I listened despite really liking the look/feel of the Forged.  Saved me from spending $$ on clubs that ultimately would have reduced my enjoyment of the game.  Had I already owned the Forged, I'm sure the fitter could have found some formula that would make them serviceable, but I never would have gotten the best out of those clubs as a result, which would have been a disservice to me.

[Duffer_E]

I believe any set of club heads can be fit to anyone (but I don't have proof).  I think what matters is the combination of club head and shaft.  The tricky part would be that shafts, even though in the same "category" (stiffness/launch characteristics, etc.) would act differently with different heads. Unfortunately, I don't have the money to test the theory by buying multiple sets of clubs with multiple shafts.  Yes, one combination might be "the best" (smallest dispersion, longest distance, etc.), but other combinations will surely be "close enough" that there isn't a huge difference.  Then it would come down to personal preference on looks, feel, sound, etc.