Center shafted putters - What are the advantages and disadvantages of the face balanced zero torque putters

[Cfhandyman]

I came across this interesting article by Jim Furyk on the benefits of a center shafted putter.  Given that the zero/no torque putter designs are the current rage and they all feature a centered shaft.  With a center shaft design, the center of gravity is located directly beneath the shaft (shaft axis), thereby minimizing twisting and keeping the club face square to the target line throughout the stroke.  Axis1 was the first, but Sam Hahn and L.A.B. led the marketing charge, so now we have designs by Axis1, L.A.B., PXG, Evnroll, Odyssey and Bettinardi with others to follow.   The article nicely summarizes the advantage and disadvantages in comparing center shafted putters to the more traditional heel shafted putters and who they may be for and not for.  Link is below 

What Are the Benefits of A Center-Shafted Putter? (jimfuryk.com) ( https://jimfuryk.com/center-shafted-putters/ ) 

 

Center shafted L.A.B. Oz.1

 

 

Edited November 30 by Cfhandyman

[cnosil]

20 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

 With a center shaft design, the center of gravity is located directly beneath the shaft (shaft axis), thereby minimizing twisting and keeping the club face square to the target line throughout the stroke. 
 

L.A.B. led the charge, but we now have designs by Axis1, PXG, Evnroll, Odyssey and Bettinardi with others to follow.   

Be careful with your wording, not all center shafted putters have the CoG beneath the shaft.  Even the LAB patent shows that the CoG is heel side of the center of the shaft.   Many center shafted putters; like the one I have in my bag,  are face balanced or toe hang; like Seemore models, and not torque balanced to face forward. 
 

I’ll also disagree that LAB led the way with “zero” torque putters.  Axis1 started about 7 years before LAB.  LAB has become the biggest name largely due to the marketing prowess of Sam Hahn and getting the putters into the hands of tour player and social media influencers.

Edited November 29 by cnosil

[Cfhandyman]

19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Be careful with your wording, not all center shafted putters have the CoG beneath the shaft.  Even the LAB patent shows that the CoG is heel side of the center of the shaft.   Many center shafted putters; like the one I have in my bag,  are face balanced and not torque balanced to face forward. 
 

I’ll also disagree that LAB led the way with “zero” torque putters.  Axis1 started about 7 years before LAB.  LAB has become the biggest name largely due to the marketing prowess of Sam Hahn and getting the putters into the hands of tour player and social media influencers.

Chris, @cnosil as always thank you for the correction. Minimizing torque would probably be a more accurate description. It is appreciated. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

I think it would be great for there to be a massive study that looks into stroke type putters (face balance, toe hang, etc) and several of the minimized torque putters to see a ton of results. 

See the different arc types and stroke types  and get a graph or something which can/will give a clearer indication of pros and cons for different stroke types and the cross sections of putters. 

I am talking a thousand golfers which is not realistic, but still. 

[golfnut3567]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think it would be great for there to be a massive study that looks into stroke type putters (face balance, toe hang, etc) and several of the minimized torque putters to see a ton of results. 

See the different arc types and stroke types  and get a graph or something which can/will give a clearer indication of pros and cons for different stroke types and the cross sections of putters. 

I am talking a thousand golfers which is not realistic, but still. 

I think someone needs more coffee!  Sorry, not trying to be too sarcastic,  but I can think of one or two other things worth studying just a bit more?   I know you guys live for this stuff, and believe me, I am very happy you do.  I love all the things you have brought to light, information about everything "golf".  

Now, if it showed me how to stop my yips, I would be first in line to read it.

And time for more coffee before my mouth gets me in more trouble!

[Chubbs1991]

I’m very tempted right now to go LAB putter. Either the Link or the Mezz Broom

[Josh Parker]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think it would be great for there to be a massive study that looks into stroke type putters (face balance, toe hang, etc) and several of the minimized torque putters to see a ton of results. 

See the different arc types and stroke types  and get a graph or something which can/will give a clearer indication of pros and cons for different stroke types and the cross sections of putters. 

I am talking a thousand golfers which is not realistic, but still. 

HQ has the new set up..... 

You need something like Robogolf that can give the same stroke time and time again.  Of course, I don't know if it works for putting but it would be something that would give consistent data.

[Cfhandyman]

50 minutes ago, Chubbs1991 said:

I’m very tempted right now to go LAB putter. Either the Link or the Mezz Broom

At the very least do the online fitting with L.A.B. to know what length and lie angle you should be looking at and then find a local golf store to try out the various models, provided they carry them.

[Chubbs1991]

1 minute ago, Cfhandyman said:

At the very least do the online fitting with L.A.B. to know what length and lie angle you should be looking at and then find a local golf store to try out the various models, provided they carry them.

Up in Canada it’s hard to get a custom fit one for less than 1000$ 

[buckpillar]

I have Just started a testing of a Face balanced center shafted putter from a company I'm affiliated with, I've never used a FB or CS putter in all my 44 yrs of playing I found while testing the ExPutt that I was cutting severely across the ball (avg 5.5 to 7.4) while leaving the face open a hair(less than .75) ... During the early stages of testing the FB-SC putter has really corrected my stroke, almost eliminating the cutting across the ball now my avg is 0.0 to 2.6 and the open face from .75 to 0.2. - speed and line dispersion benefited also.

Just last night I roll 108 putts in analyze mode having putts from 5 to 50ft, My make percentage was 39% .. as you can see in the pictures that I did pull a few and push some. I could really feel the stragglers when I would roll the hands or leave the face open etc. 

So far my experience is a positive one and look for it to improve just by seeing the outcome of the testing as of right now.

    

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think it would be great for there to be a massive study that looks into stroke type putters (face balance, toe hang, etc) and several of the minimized torque putters to see a ton of results. 

See the different arc types and stroke types  and get a graph or something which can/will give a clearer indication of pros and cons for different stroke types and the cross sections of putters. 

I am talking a thousand golfers which is not realistic, but still. 

It’s been done,   Look into the work of Bruce Rearick (https://substack.com/@brucerearick). As part of his work he has identified 9 stroke types and the styles of putters that benefit each type.  These types were identified by studying the stokes of the thousands of golfers.    There is not really a pro/con for each type, they are a fingerprint for what each golfer does. Based on the players tendencies you pick the putter that matches up to the needs/choices.  There are numerous podcasts and videos that he has done that explain his findings.  He is the coach that I worked with for several years that taught me so much about the putting stroke and the putters influence. 
 

I could also point you to the opposite view that states the putter doesn’t matter and it is all about players developing skills.  That putting instructor would be Geoff Mangum.   His view is that players just need to learn body mechanics and the skills necessary to aim and start the ball where aimed with instinctive touch.   

[Coach W.]

I went to a center-shafted putter a couple of years ago. I’ve always been a decent putter, but lacked consistency. Tended to twist the club in my hand. Since going to a center-shaft, I’ve never putted better! It sets up so nicely and looks good to the eye. As a matter of fact, in August of 2023 (right after turning 54 years old) won the regular men’s club championship at our course. 24 years between titles! Lol. I’m also a high school golf coach and have had several of the players on the girls team switch to center-shafted putters. They make a ton more putts than they did before! 

[BStanky]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Axis 1 was offering their patented zero tourque putters years before L.A.B. Golf. I was testing Axis1 putters over 10 years ago.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, BStanky said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Axis 1 was offering their patented zero tourque putters years before L.A.B. Golf. I was testing Axis1 putters over 10 years ago.

You are not incorrect.  Without looking up dates, Axis1 started in 2008ish and Directed Force (name prior to LAB rebranding) was 2015ish

[Goalie65]

3 hours ago, Chubbs1991 said:

Up in Canada it’s hard to get a custom fit one for less than 1000$ 

Actually the price through golf vault is $630 plus hst delivered to my door for Mezz max and Oz 

[Goalie65]

Iam very interested- I tried the DF3 and I’m right eye dominant and was indeed pushing to the right - Just wondering if I get one that is much more upright will it correct the push?

[Chubbs1991]

10 minutes ago, Goalie65 said:

Actually the price through golf vault is $630 plus hst delivered to my door for Mezz max and Oz 

I just order a broomstick from them and it’s was 786$

 

[Goalie65]

Yes broomstick is more than standard —- use it well

[doughall]

 I had an Edel 15 years ago that was 'toe up', currently use a Seemore true face balance

[Cfhandyman]

3 hours ago, BStanky said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Axis 1 was offering their patented zero tourque putters years before L.A.B. Golf. I was testing Axis1 putters over 10 years ago.

When I looked further, I believe you are correct.  Axis1 was the first, at least according to Axis.  The original DF2.1 (prior to L.A.B.) dates back to circa 2015/2016.  My apologies.

[Hacker60521]

@Cfhandyman thanks for the article. I’m really curious as to why Furyk says that center shaft putters are really good for left eye dominant putters. 

[cnosil]

59 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

@Cfhandyman thanks for the article. I’m really curious as to why Furyk says that center shaft putters are really good for left eye dominant putters. 

One if The many theories about how to pick putters based on eye and hand dominance.  The theory is that right handed left eye dominant players align the putter better with center shafted putters.  

[GolferXY]

On 11/28/2024 at 1:37 PM, cnosil said:

LAB has become the biggest name largely due to the marketing prowess of Sam Hahn

The "revealer" was a stroke of genius!  But personally I think the reason LAB is the biggest name in zero torque is because they just work.  Every brand gets a push when the pros use their flatstick, but when guys like Adam Scott pull a branding iron out of the bag and start winning again after years in the dog house,  Glover putts lights out for two weeks making everything in sight, and Phil Michelson shows up on TV giving his nod of approval to the odd but oddly beautiful [in my eyes] DF3 by sinking putts from everywhere, well, I think that does mean a lot more than just marketing for marketing sake.  Again, I'm not arguing that marketing isn't a part of the story, but for the brand to come out of nowhere and establish itself as one of the premier boutique putters there has to be more than hot air or hot chicks involved!

[GolferXY]

6 hours ago, cnosil said:

One if The many theories about how to pick putters based on eye and hand dominance.  The theory is that right handed left eye dominant players align the putter better with center shafted putters.  

That describes me perfectly.  Interesting!  I've never heard that theory but it makes a lot of sense for me.

[GolferXY]

12 hours ago, Chubbs1991 said:

I just order a broomstick from them and it’s was 786$

If you're interested in a LAB putter try the LAB Outlet .  It's best to get fitted first and then hope to find one at a discount, but it's easier with a broomstick since they generally are 49' and 79 degree so less muss and fuss and they ship faster too.  I cut my broomstick down a couple of inches after some testing at home and on the course.

[GolferXY]

15 hours ago, cnosil said:

His view is that players just need to learn body mechanics and the skills necessary to aim and start the ball where aimed with instinctive touch.  

I don't think those two ideas are mutually exclusive, do you?  I know that I putt best when I'm loose and confident, start missing the shorties when I tighten up or overthink the putt.  When I was a kid I would walk up to the ball and give it a whack and I was a darn good putter.  Now I drain 5 of 10 from 20 feet on the practice green and three putt from 20 feet during the round!  {Sigh} I know, I'm a head case.  But less so with my newest putter.

[cnosil]

6 hours ago, GolferXY said:

 Every brand gets a push when the pros use their flatstick,

OF course, that is what I said; that is why Cameron sells putters and merchandise.  From a LAB point of view it is all because of Sam Hahn getting the putters in Pros hands.    Bill Presse wasn’t getting them into players and influencers hands.

You mention Luca Glover; he is not a good putter even with the LAB.  Also, just because a pro uses a club doesn’t mean it is the right putter for you.

6 hours ago, GolferXY said:

I don't think those two ideas are mutually exclusive, do you?  

What two ideas arent mutually exclusive?  

Edited November 30 by cnosil

[cksurfdude]

For me, I've tested an Axis1 (not the Rose model) and while I very much like the concept I just didn't like the feel of the putter that much .. again, for me, I didn't seem to putt better with it.

[Hacker60521]

16 hours ago, cnosil said:

One if The many theories about how to pick putters based on eye and hand dominance.  The theory is that right handed left eye dominant players align the putter better with center shafted putters.  

@cnosil any explanation as to “why” right handed / left eye dominant players align better with center shaft putters? 

[GolferXY]

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

What two ideas arent mutually exclusive?  

The mechanical vs. the instinctual.  I'm asking because I haven't spent much time and it sounds like you have a strong knowledge and interest in the topic.