Matt Saternus Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 We're trying a slightly new approach to shaft reviews with Fujikura's top-of-the-line Motore Speeder shafts: instead of reviewing one model and making a somewhat random, apples to oranges comparison, we will be reviewing each model in the line to let you know how they differ from one another. With that said: What do you want to know about these shafts? How can we keep improving our shaft reviews? *Note: the first person who says "robot" or anything like it is getting pistol whipped. Do you like the full-line review concept, or do you prefer one-off reviews? Enough words, on with the pics: Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK in TEXAS Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Definitely full line reviews. Knowing how they differentiate between shafts is waaaay more valuable than a random "score". Oh...and are you using a robot? MENTOR, L4 COACH & TRAINER FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON HDCP: 8.3 (GHIN: 3143312) In my bag, April 2023 TS3 Driver & 4 Wood Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex) TS2 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex) MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex) SM8 Wedges EVNROLL ER2 Putter SRIXON Z-STAR DIAMOND BALL Sun Mountain Cart Bag 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyk Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Really, for me I'm sorry to say that shaft reviews are almost meaningless. First, I don't buy new shafts. I do hit them from time to time, and if I find one I like I will note the specs and look for something similar in an older, cheaper version. I'm also not out shopping to change shafts. I realize there are guys here that do, I'm just not one of them. Secondly, a big component of liking a shaft or not comes down to feel and trying to discuss feel effectively is very difficult. A shaft that feels great to you, that you describe as smooth and buttery might feel completely different to someone else with very similar swing stats. It could be that they identify feel differently, it could be that they load the shaft differently, it could be that they just like a different feel. Regardless of the "why", they're still talking a different language! A shaft that you don't like and that you spray all over the yard might be just what the other guy likes! Don't get me wrong, I know the shaft is important and I pay attention to them when I buy my clubs, and I have even changed them from time to time. When I'm looking, I will take the time to check out a review maybe, but what I really want to know is are there any defects to the shaft, does it not play or spec as stated, is there something critically different about it vs. other shafts that spec similar. Barring that, I know that no matter what the review says, I am not going to know what I think about a shaft until I hit it. So for me, I don't think you guys should spend an inordinate amount of time trying to quantify what is to a large part a very subjective thing. I like to see and read about the new stuff, but in general, I don't find shaft reviews very useful. (steps back and waits for the explosion from the shaft junkies!) Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g SAdams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki SAdams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie SMizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 SSCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius SSTX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Tuna Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 A: Full line review at a time instead of one by one. It lets people see how a .1 differs from a .2 head to head. B: Unlikely but is there any way you could either profile the shafts yourself or get the OEM's to offer it up when you do the review? Calling something a low launch, low spin or mid launch with low spin is meaningless unless the overall profile fits. I know most people don't seem to care, which is amusing since it's really how one is fit into a shaft, but it would be quite helpful for those of us that help others. I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverRick Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 As long as you are doing the pistol whipping and not hooking it to an Iron Byron that is ok. Full line. It you use the same head for all shafts, it does not matter whose, and give the actual spin numbers and launch angle than we can compare the data. Of course it will vary head to head but in reality, it will also vary from person to person, we are not robots you know. I know when I was looking for a shaft and looking at the Talamonti, all I could find out about was how people said it felt. Feel is so subjective. "Mizuno blades feel buttery soft." B.S. They feel solid to me. What I really wanted was the flight information. Launch angle, Spin rates, apex, Speeds, and distance. Yes, this will vary but it is better than nothing. G430LST 10.5° on T P T POWER 18 Hi Driver G430MAX 3w on T P T POWER 18 Hi Fairway G425 3H on T P T POWER 18 Hi Hybrid P790 Black 4-A on TGI 80S ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on Hi Rev DF2.1 on White ProV1 Precision Pro NX7 Pro All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Tuna Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Barring that, I know that no matter what the review says, I am not going to know what I think about a shaft until I hit it. So for me, I don't think you guys should spend an inordinate amount of time trying to quantify what is to a large part a very subjective thing. I like to see and read about the new stuff, but in general, I don't find shaft reviews very useful. (steps back and waits for the explosion from the shaft junkies!) Yeah. Utterly and entirely disagree and this is what's wrong with my shaft "reviews". There's no discussion about who the shaft is for, what type of swing does it fit, how they can expect the numbers to alter, what other sorts of shafts does it match against. All this information is out there, it's just to scattered for most people to get. As long as someone has quality information for me or many others (see Doug Mael, Awakespoiled, Marcus, Wishon, etc) there's no reason why one can't get a pretty darn accurate webfit that narrows it down to a very small selection of offerings in a number of price brackets. It's much better to get fit in person with a tech. MUCH. But if that's not an option, there are lots of people out there who CAN tell you that info Tyk even including what you should feel in comparison to what you play now. /Rant mode off. Shafts are my thing in golf and the amount of mystique surrounding them is just plan annoying. I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBones Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What do you want to know about these shafts? All I want to know is how long will it take for you to ship one to me? Follow @GolfspyBones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperStroke Putters Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 ROBOT! Not helping, I know Check out the SuperStroke Grips and putters designed by the master putter maker Bruce Sizemore! www.superstrokeusa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy WD Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Full line. I'd even take it further and have a chart of all shafts you've looked at to compare their stats. Feel is so subjective and based on many factors that I don't always buy it. I think it would be good to post a video of your swing so we can also see how much load you put on a shaft. It would be great to have three different golfers with high to low load on the shaft and see how everything compares for them. @GolfSpy_WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyk Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Hey Tuna, I did specifically state that I was speaking for myself! I think it's great that all those numbers and mystical terms like "boardy" and "tip stiff" and all that mean something to someone. One would assume they would have to or they wouldn't be there. Personally I think there should be something like a "Geranimals" shaft system. So I could go get fit once, and get my shaft Geranimal "Bear" badge. Then they could just put a Geranimal sticker on each shaft and I could just go to the Bear section. Kind of like a horoscope. Well, I guess it's already like a horoscope, but add some animals or nudity or something and at least make it fun! Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g SAdams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki SAdams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie SMizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 SSCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius SSTX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Tuna Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Tyk: Sorry, I sort of used that as a launching platform. That wasn't really at you so much as extrapolating on the theme of things and then exploding like a little bomber man. My bad mate! Though I agree with the sticker. I'm trying to go my own algorithm to make just that though it'll be fairly useless until I can "aquire" a EI machine. Hey Matt, wanna beg Fujikura for one for me? I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxio Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It would be helpful if testing was done to see which shaft within the lines would fit certain types of swings (smooth vs aggressive, early vs late release) and based on design which would be lower spin higher spin, lower launch etc. Then you could probably compare to hot shafts (i.e. GD DI) or shafts that were previously hot (i.e V2) I personally have a 6.1 stiff plugged into my new RBZ @45" and my driving has picked up. Still a bit of adjustment but I can see the potential. I would like to see it compared to the other Speeders since I feel it currently is a tad boardy. It would interesting to figure out if that is a flex or model issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHacker Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I think shaft reviews are a good reference for me. There is no way to know for sure how a shaft might perform for me unless I buy the shaft and have it transplanted on my club head. And this would involve considerable time and expenses. Even a visit to the club fitter without committing to anything is going to cost me as nobody would do it for free. To make it worse, most of them try to push products which they already have in stock and try to "educate" the customer to conform their swing to their available shaft. For people like me, I like to have both comparison between brands, and well as comparison between shafts under the same brand. Also I like to look at objective stats like spin rates, launch angles, whether there's any impact on ball speed. Therefore having the shafts tested on a machine is preferred. Because nobody can swing exactly the same way every time, but with a machine like Iron Byron, you can program it to swing exactly the same speed, same club loading characteristics, same launch angle. And then you compare the results across different brands. That should be how you do a scientific comparison. Now in my bag: TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges Scotty Cameron California Del Mar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxio Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Interesting on the Iron Byron comments because I would say I know 0 golfers that swing like iron Byron. Even the best swings at my club will not be that good (on plane, tempo, etc). I wonder if there is a way to calibrate Iron Byron to simulate certain types of swings so it could result in better comparisons. Maybe calibrate "it" to have a early release or maybe a really late lag. That would really be helpful for shaft companies to designate a certain shaft to fit certain swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Looks like someone didn't read the rules. My pistol, please... Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hey I've got a great idea Matt - why not create mechanical devices to simulate the swing of each golfer in the MGS community and then have them hit shots with the new shafts and report the results on a grid - that way we can be sure to select the proper shaft for us! :D Seriously while I don't often change shafts when I do I prefer to read a review from the MGS staff. The review you did on the excaliber shafts was most helpful and the way I'm hitting my Adams with that SL driver shaft in it is to die for. I do think it would be very helpful to know the profile target of each shaft tested and whether or not the shaft actually succeeds in benefitting that type of swing. Thanks Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 As much as you dislike robots, even Rory McIlroy's swing isn't exactly the same every time. a Robot will give the exact same swing every time for the best head to head comparison. What's In The Bag: Adams 9064LS Ben Hogan Edge CFT Ti Ben Hogan Apex Edge 4-PW TaylorMade ATV 50* 54* Mizuno Bettinardi BC3 Tour Issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP Tony Covey MGS Posted September 18, 2012 SPY VIP Share Posted September 18, 2012 As much as you dislike robots, even Rory McIlroy's swing isn't exactly the same every time. a Robot will give the exact same swing every time for the best head to head comparison. Rory's swing isn't the same because he's human...and that's who swings golf clubs. Please don't feel like I'm singling you out here, but every time we do anything new or different, we get people asking (and some demanding) we use robots for our testing. I suppose there's an element of logic to it, and yet, when we talk to the OEMs, the guys who design, engineer, and ultimately sell golf clubs, the all tell us the same thing: They rely much more heavily on their human testing then they do their robots. We actually talked to senior VP level guys at one of the biggest companies in golf about robots and what they told us was "don't go down that rabbit hole". It's essentially not worth the headache, and the data isn't nearly as meaningful as what you get from actual people. MyGolfSpy is only major golf site that refuses advertising from large golf companies. With your support we can keep it that way. Donate Today Follow @GolfSpyT Subscribe to the MyGolfSpy Newsletter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy WD Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I highly recommend this type of robot: We have one of the base refurbished models (no auto foamer) at work and it certainly helps me swing more consistently (not that I would ever go golfing during work hours) @GolfSpy_WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firstkart Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 It will take a lot of convincing for me to give up my Nunchuk shafts. I have my RBZ driver fitted with their first model and my Adams hybrid fitted with the 370 model. So to answer your question, any review would need to be comprehensive enough based on my requirements. You can of course send me a box of shafts to review and they will tested against my Nunchuk's. AJ P.S. Written and authorised by AJ on behalf of AJ with no affiliation or conflicts of interest with Nventix and the Nunchuk shafts. WITB Driver: Ping G25 FW: TM RBZ Irons: Miura 57 Series w/KBS C-Taper Wedges: Vokey SM4 52-08,56-12,60-04 Putter: Watch This Space Ball: SRixon Z Star Other: Tourstriker 7i "Go Hard or Go Home" "Do or Do Not. There is NO "TRY" "Be normal, and the crowd will accept you. Be deranged, and they will make you their leader" "I don't fail. I succeed at finding what doesn't work" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Seriously while I don't often change shafts when I do I prefer to read a review from the MGS staff. The review you did on the excaliber shafts was most helpful and the way I'm hitting my Adams with that SL driver shaft in it is to die for. I do think it would be very helpful to know the profile target of each shaft tested and whether or not the shaft actually succeeds in benefitting that type of swing. Thanks Rev, I think we've "talked" enough that I can single out this comment without you taking it the wrong way. I only use it to make this point: I don't know what the bolded text means anymore. I know that the shaft makers sell us on ideas like "this is for heavy loaders/fast swings/blah blah blah" but when you fit REAL PEOPLE (not f***ing robots) in the REAL WORLD you find out that all of this goes out the window. As I said in another thread, it's all about how the individual reacts to the equipment. I've seen people fit directly into what the manufacturers say they should have, and I've seen people fit into things that no one in their right mind would expect them to use. It's why MGS is so adamant about people getting fit. Honestly, with that said, it makes me wonder what the value of shaft reviews are. I guess to answer my own question, they are out there so people are aware of what's available, and to give them some idea (not perfect, but better than just about anyone else) of what the shafts do. And because we know some people will always be in the "buy-try-sell-repeat" mode, which is fine, and if my reviews help them, I'm happy for it. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Alright, humans it shall be. I'm looking forward to this one cause the stick AMP shaft can't stay forever and I love my Speeder 686... hope the next gen ones are as good and I'll be giving them a look. What's In The Bag: Adams 9064LS Ben Hogan Edge CFT Ti Ben Hogan Apex Edge 4-PW TaylorMade ATV 50* 54* Mizuno Bettinardi BC3 Tour Issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy WD Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Rev, I think we've "talked" enough that I can single out this comment without you taking it the wrong way. I only use it to make this point: I don't know what the bolded text means anymore. I know that the shaft makers sell us on ideas like "this is for heavy loaders/fast swings/blah blah blah" but when you fit REAL PEOPLE (not f***ing robots) in the REAL WORLD you find out that all of this goes out the window. As I said in another thread, it's all about how the individual reacts to the equipment. I've seen people fit directly into what the manufacturers say they should have, and I've seen people fit into things that no one in their right mind would expect them to use. It's why MGS is so adamant about people getting fit. Honestly, with that said, it makes me wonder what the value of shaft reviews are. I guess to answer my own question, they are out there so people are aware of what's available, and to give them some idea (not perfect, but better than just about anyone else) of what the shafts do. And because we know some people will always be in the "buy-try-sell-repeat" mode, which is fine, and if my reviews help them, I'm happy for it. That's true of most anything as far as reviews go. Really it's all about what makes X different than Y. Plus, every so often you get something that's actually different. The MP59s or C Tapers come to mind. @GolfSpy_WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txgolfjunkie Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Here's my $0.02.... Golf club heads are maxed out. Sorry, unless we find another metal on the periodic table of elements that is cheap to manufacture and sell to the general public, we are pretty much stuck. With that being said, the shaft is becoming the new hot topic on gaining distance and accuracy. I would love to see some technical specs of the shafts but also what REAL golfers (both beginner and scratch) think and what shafts are comparable. I have $0 desire to buy a new $400 driver, but I am willing to drop $200+ on a new shaft if it delivers for me. For me in particular and my swing, my spin and launch is off the charts high. It works for me and I have adjusted my game accordingly. However, finding the right shaft can be tedious and costs $$$. I would love to find a low spin, low launch bomber but so far, no luck. These speeder lines have always intrigued me but I never pulled the trigger. I think if there is a 50/50 split on technical and real world data, that would please the vast majority. And throw in a comparison to some of the most popular stock shafts (Aldia RIP, Diamana A'hina, Matrix Ozik, etc). I have been waiting a long time to see some shaft reviews. The nunchuck was very informative, just leave the scoring alone. Cobra Connect 5 Competitor - Team Chad King Radspeed 10.5* w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 60 6.5 tipped 1/2" - Peacoat/Red King Radspeed Big Tour 3 Wood w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 70 6.5 Tipped 1/2" King Radspeed Tour 5 Wood w/ Motore X F1 70 X Flex King Utility 4 21* w/ Tensei Pro White 100 X Flex King Tour MIM Copper Irons 5-G w/ AMT White X100 Onyx King MIM Black Wedges 55* & 60* w/ AMT White X100 Onyx Spider SR Pro V1x Left Dash Lefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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