RookieBlue7 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 And coming are they. It appears that settling up with James Patrick was more costly than anyone knew and he's trying to recoup it all back on the sale of iron sets. Price points: 3-GW $3150 3-PW $2800 4-GW $2800 4-PW $2450 5-GW $2450 5-PW $2100 That's $350 per club for those doing the math. And they're not that impressive in looks. The bounce is jacked waaaaaay up on all of the irons (example 7 iron has 12* of bounce). I was always of the school of thought of ball first contact with the club contacting turf after the ball to create compression and launch. It seems Mr. Edel has developed the first ever set of Tour Striker irons, so watch out Martin Chuck. Evidently, creating that much bounce is expensive to do. Regardless, I'm sure they're a fine forged iron, but that price point won't sell well, IMO. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy_X Posted September 14, 2012 SPY VIP Share Posted September 14, 2012 Have to say I have definitely seen some better looking iron designs from Edel than these ones I assume he is referring to: #TruthDigest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy_X Posted September 14, 2012 SPY VIP Share Posted September 14, 2012 Here is the email from Edel: Edel Irons Pre-Order now David Edel, founder of Edel Golf, has done it again! He has designed and produced the best custom putters and wedges on the market, and now is venturing into an amazing line of irons. He took what Mike Adams taught him about bounce in the wedges with how it helps the player's turf interaction and consistency. This same methodology was used to develop what we believe to be the best set of irons on the market to date. We researched other companies' amount of bounce in their irons. The most we could find was 5* bounce on a 7 iron (avg 3*) and it went down from there with an average of 1* on a 3 iron. David's first prototype was a 7 iron with 12* of bounce. The results were absolutely amazing. We found cleaner turf interaction as well as using higher lofts drives the ball further. Reason being is the club is not getting stuck in the ground and has more force. This turns into better strikes and faster club head speed for the golfer. Orders for Edel Irons Be one of the first to purchase a limited run of 150 cavity back and 50 muscle back irons for 2012. Each head starts with raw forging, then CNC machining. The next step is hand grinding by either Neil Oster (Director of Iron and Wedge Development) or David Edel for the proper grind and bounce. Only the loft and club number will be stamped on the club (no personalization). It will then be sent to PVD plating. Read more about PVD Choose your paintfill, shaft type, length and lie Club Loft Bounce Length Lie GW 50* 15* 35.5" 64* PW 46* 15* 35.5" 63.5* 9 42* 14* 36" 63* 8 38* 13* 36.5" 62.5* 7 34* 12* 37" 62* 6 31* 11* 37.5" 61.5* 5 28* 10* 38" 61* 4 25* 9* 38.5" 60.5* 3 22* 8* 39" 60* Std swing weight D2 Shafts Available KBS C Taper (S) KBS Tour 90 (R and S) KBS Custom Series Black Tour (R and S) UST MP6 Graphite (A - 67 g) Nippon 950 GH ® DG Tour Issue (S-400) +$20 per club We are taking pre-orders now. As mentioned, we are only manufacturing 50 muscle back sets and 150 cavity back sets for 2012. Contact your fitter if you are interested in purchasing. Orders will be filled on a first response basis. Set Makeup available 3-GW - $3150 3-PW - $2800 4-GW - $2800 4-PW - $2450 5-GW - $2450 5-PW - $2100 Edel Irons will begin shipping the 1st week of October. Muscle Backs will not be available until November. Don't delay! These sets will not last long. #TruthDigest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I didn't know that they were 'settling up' with JP. And for what reason they would have to settle up for JP is beyond me. I don't see how that would have anything to do with the irons. They are only making 200 sets of irons for this year. The price point on the forged wedges is about the same as the price point on each iron. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 I didn't know that they were 'settling up' with JP. And for what reason they would have to settle up for JP is beyond me. I don't see how that would have anything to do with the irons. They are only making 200 sets of irons for this year. The price point on the forged wedges is about the same as the price point on each iron. 3JACK They got JP to source their wedge heads, do all the grinding for the PGA show, etc and then made him a bad offer. It broke down from there and the contractual offer wasn't in the best interests of JP Golf (according to JP). Their wedges that they now sell, however, bear the exact same grind JP produced and is known for, the exact same stamping style, same thinner hosel, same heel and toe relief, same CG, etc. everything about Edel wedges has JP's ideas and design characteristics all over them. They're JP wedges with a different face pattern. The settling with JP was tongue in cheek, but everyone knows where the aesthetics and ideas for their wedges came from. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msp1404 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I dont see how anyone would buy those at those prices. What do these irons have that mizuno's dont? unless these are guaranteed to hit it perfect everytime, i wouldnt even consider them, well actually i would rather have 2 sets of any other irons than one of these. If anyone would like to attempt to prove me wrong, i would love to hear your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 They got JP to source their wedge heads, do all the grinding for the PGA show, etc and then made him a bad offer. It broke down from there and the contractual offer wasn't in the best interests of JP Golf (according to JP). Their wedges that they now sell, however, bear the exact same grind JP produced and is known for, the exact same stamping style, same thinner hosel, same heel and toe relief, same CG, etc. everything about Edel wedges has JP's ideas and design characteristics all over them. They're JP wedges with a different face pattern. The settling with JP was tongue in cheek, but everyone knows where the aesthetics and ideas for their wedges came from. That's not exactly true. I should know since I was at the 2011 PGA Show at the AimPoint/Edel booth when they first introduced the wedges in a glass casing, with just the head. In fact, one of the grinds was a blatant rip off of Miura's K-Grind Anyway, when I asked about the wedges I was told that the head design and fitting system was the brainchild of Mike Adams. That the wedges were featuring more bounce and moving hte CoG away from the hosel along with a fitting system that would find the right bounce for the golfer. At that time, I thought that could really mean anything. But guess who told me this? James Patrick. I think what people don't realize is that Mike Adams has been an experienced grinder who ground wedges for his students for years. The actual high bounce design was something that Adams thought of due to his admiration for the old PING Eye 2 wedge. From my feeling after the 2011 PGA Show was that JP was there to add his cosmetic touch to it, set them up with a source for blank heads and more or less be the 'face' behind the wedge line, much like Don White is at Scratch Golf or Bob Vokey at Titleist. I would play JP's wedges if I thought they were better than Edel's, but the amount of bounce and the scoreline design is completely different. I personally prefer the Edel design, but others may prefer what JP is offering. The point is, they are very different in key spots and after that PGA Show, I could only go on what JP told me and that was the design and fitting system was Mike Adams' creation. Anyway, last year I got to hit Edel's 9-iron with the punch dot face and I really liked it. I like the higher bounce angle concept, which decreases the size of the divot and can help with distance control. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I dont see how anyone would buy those at those prices. What do these irons have that mizuno's dont? unless these are guaranteed to hit it perfect everytime, i wouldnt even consider them, well actually i would rather have 2 sets of any other irons than one of these. If anyone would like to attempt to prove me wrong, i would love to hear your arguments. I won't argue being leery of the price. The Edel irons have a much higher bounce angle than any other iron on the market. The idea is that the higher bounce angle will help with the clubhead colliding with the turf. With their wedges, Mike Adams noticed that his students, be it the 30 handicapper or PGA Tour player, where 'backing up out of the shot' because their wedges didn't have enough bounce. Because if they didn't 'back up out of the shot', they would likely stick the head into the ground. The same idea is behind the irons. I do find that with the wedges that it's easier to control the yardage because you don't have to worry about catching a lot of turf in your divots. Again, I think the same idea is behind the irons. I'm not sure if they are doing the dot punch face option on this run of iron sets they are making. But they have found that the spin rate numbers are better and more consistent with the dot punch design, which is legal for play. I also know that the irons are being designed to get the yardage gaps correct, instead of hitting say a 6-iron 7 yards further than your 5-iron while the rest of the yardage gaps are at 12-yards. I'm not exactly sure how they are doing that. But that's what I was told was going on. Whether or not it's worth the price is up to the golfer. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK in TEXAS Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 i would rather have 2 sets of any other irons than one of these. If anyone would like to attempt to prove me wrong, i would love to hear your arguments. It's closer to 3 sets of brand spanking new irons, or 6-7 one year old sets off flea bay. MENTOR, L4 COACH & TRAINER FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON HDCP: 8.3 (GHIN: 3143312) In my bag, April 2023 TS3 Driver & 4 Wood Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex) TS2 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex) MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex) SM8 Wedges EVNROLL ER2 Putter SRIXON Z-STAR DIAMOND BALL Sun Mountain Cart Bag 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 According to every interview I've read with JP, that have direct audio recorded quotes he's said the same thing: Mike Adams didn't teach him a thing about grinding clubs nor design. He's always maintained the only thing Mike Adams has taught him was about swing mechanics. His wedges and grind jobs were around before Edel's wedges, his loft stampings, etc, from back when he worked at Hot Stix then Cool Clubs well before Edel was a company offering clubs. He's also maintained that Edel "blatantly copied" his wedges. And he still has the wedges that were designed for the PGA Show. There's a big write up on another site that has quotes from both companies. It's he said she said. But if my money is on either party, I'm rolling with JP after talking to both (well, attempting to, the folks at Edel have been rude every time I've tried to converse with them, and it was about their product not this subject). In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 According to every interview I've read with JP, that have direct audio recorded quotes he's said the same thing: Mike Adams didn't teach him a thing about grinding clubs nor design. He's always maintained the only thing Mike Adams has taught him was about swing mechanics. His wedges and grind jobs were around before Edel's wedges, his loft stampings, etc, from back when he worked at Hot Stix then Cool Clubs well before Edel was a company offering clubs. He's also maintained that Edel "blatantly copied" his wedges. And he still has the wedges that were designed for the PGA Show. There's a big write up on another site that has quotes from both companies. It's he said she said. But if my money is on either party, I'm rolling with JP after talking to both (well, attempting to, the folks at Edel have been rude every time I've tried to converse with them, and it was about their product not this subject). I have read the write up. I'm just telling you what JP told me personally at the 2011 PGA Merchandise Show before their deal fell apart. He also has on his Web site "Studied with Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor Mike Adams in regards to the concepts of the wedge swing and wedge fitting." And he still has the wedges designes for the PGA Show, one of which included a blatant copy of the Miura K-Grind (so much for innovation and stealing ideas), because he had to pay Edel to keep those heads. One of the questions my readers have asked me about the Edel wedges are what the differences are from the high bounce PING Eye 2 design. That's where the real idea of the Edel wedges came from and even Mike Adams would admit that himself. Not to mention that JP's wedges still have the scorelines in a traditional design whereas the Edel wedges have the scorelines extending out towards the toe. I also have been told what JP's monetary demands were. I would have to know more of what other grinders like Don White and Bob Vokey are making with their companies to get a real comparison. But from what I was told, my initial reaction was that he was asking for entirely too much. Again, I could be wrong. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have read the write up. I'm just telling you what JP told me personally at the 2011 PGA Merchandise Show before their deal fell apart. He also has on his Web site "Studied with Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor Mike Adams in regards to the concepts of the wedge swing and wedge fitting." And he still has the wedges designes for the PGA Show, one of which included a blatant copy of the Miura K-Grind (so much for innovation and stealing ideas), because he had to pay Edel to keep those heads. One of the questions my readers have asked me about the Edel wedges are what the differences are from the high bounce PING Eye 2 design. That's where the real idea of the Edel wedges came from and even Mike Adams would admit that himself. Not to mention that JP's wedges still have the scorelines in a traditional design whereas the Edel wedges have the scorelines extending out towards the toe. I also have been told what JP's monetary demands were. I would have to know more of what other grinders like Don White and Bob Vokey are making with their companies to get a real comparison. But from what I was told, my initial reaction was that he was asking for entirely too much. Again, I could be wrong. 3JACK Wedge swing and fitting aren't grinding. Grinding is changing the way the wedge aesthetically looks and the way it interacts with the turf. You don't change the swing to fit the club, you change the grind on the club to fit the swing mechanics so it marries with the turf interaction. Miura wasn't the first to do their K grind either. The notched grind dates back to the 50's and 60's at least, heck, there were a few notched specialty clubs back ar the turn of the 20th century. Miura's K-Grind was released in 2k10. The modern iteration that started the heel relief on the non-leading edge is the Trusty Rusty. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Wedge swing and fitting aren't grinding. Grinding is changing the way the wedge aesthetically looks and the way it interacts with the turf. You don't change the swing to fit the club, you change the grind on the club to fit the swing mechanics so it marries with the turf interaction. I think that's a bit of '6 in 1 half dozen in the other.' If JP learned swing mechanics and wedge fitting from Mike Adams, then he can use that knowledge to better grind clubs for his customer. Miura wasn't the first to do their K grind either. The notched grind dates back to the 50's and 60's at least, heck, there were a few notched specialty clubs back ar the turn of the 20th century. Miura's K-Grind was released in 2k10. The modern iteration that started the heel relief on the non-leading edge is the Trusty Rusty. By the same token, much of what JP is doing has been around for a while as well. Like spelling out lofts. I had a Hogan wedge that spelled out FIFTY FIVE and I believe Scratch Golf had been doing things of that sort for a while as well. I do think that the K-Grind was popularized by Miura and it's obviously not a coincidence that JP starting grinding and designing heads in the same way. Even still, I find the designs noticeably different and again...I can only go by what JP told me at the PGA Merchandise Show. He changed his tune about what ideas were whose once they didn't reach a deal. And that's not to take away from JP. Cosmetically, I think his wedges are different now from what Edel is doing. Different finishes and all sorts of different little cosmetics going on and personally, I prefer JP's cosmetic work over Edel's. I just think some things about their situation are being misrepresented. That's unless JP lied to me and others at the PGA Show. Perhaps he was trying to 'tow the company line' at the time, but I'm not sure where the benefit in that would be, particularly if they had not even signed a contract. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 We agree that Miura introduced his K-Grind in 2010 right? This is from 2009, a contest in which people were naming JP's new grind(it was decided on as the Santoku grind). And yes, he was working on raw Miura overweight blanks at the time. http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/305227-james-patrick-wedge-giveaway-name-that-grind/ X, I'm sorry for linking a different site here, but it proves my point in this case. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Interesting. I stand corrected (although he did ape the grind from somebody else ) 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Here is the email from Edel: We researched other companies' amount of bounce in their irons. The most we could find was 5* bounce on a 7 iron (avg 3*) and it went down from there with an average of 1* on a 3 iron. David's first prototype was a 7 iron with 12* of bounce. The results were absolutely amazing. We found cleaner turf interaction as well as using higher lofts drives the ball further. Reason being is the club is not getting stuck in the ground and has more force. This turns into better strikes and faster club head speed for the golfer. I sure would love to put this idea to the test, though with production being super limited, I'm sure I won't get the chance. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 I sure would love to put this idea to the test, though with production being super limited, I'm sure I won't get the chance. Matt, I'd love to put the theory to the test as well. Hell, even if I couldn't, I'd love to at least read about someone that did. With that said, unless the clubs were forged by God himself, there's no way I'm paying $350 per iron for any club. Miura's aren't that much unless you select really expensive shafts that are rare and exotic. And even then, they'd be double K stamps. DW Customs from Scratch don't touch that either unless you're going really exotic and they're handmade one offs. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finalist Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 any company that says this one design is the best for all is nuts. Greg Norman barely took a divot... why would he want tons of bounce? I spy with my little eye something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 any company that says this one design is the best for all is nuts. Greg Norman barely took a divot... why would he want tons of bounce? Agreed. One size doesn't fit all. But I'd like to know how it might fit me... Regardless, they ain't gonna sell, though if he's only gotta sell 200 sets, maybe. Fairways & Greens 4ever... Edel has been around a while. I would guess that he's got half of these pre-sold and he knows where the other half are going. Plenty of people out there with more money than sense. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finalist Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Agreed. One size doesn't fit all. But I'd like to know how it might fit me... Edel has been around a while. I would guess that he's got half of these pre-sold and he knows where the other half are going. Plenty of people out there with more money than sense. Very true. I'd be bouncing the long irons off the baked hard pan turf in my area, but it would be fun to demo them! With that said I think too much bounce is better than not enough bounce. I spy with my little eye something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Living Legend Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Isn't the idea of a good iron shot to hit the little ball before the big ball? So that would render bounce effective on fat shots only, correct? I mean if the ball has already left the face you can't alter it's flight, unless you're Obi Wan Kenobi or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I sure would love to put this idea to the test, though with production being super limited, I'm sure I won't get the chance. Try their wedges and you'll see the difference. At first, I had a difficult time getting used to the feel of the divots. It would feel flush, but I would take a very small divot. A month ago I did the Trackman combine test and tore it up with their wedges. In fact, from 90 yards I hit 2 shots that score 99 and 2 shots that score 100 with my Edel LW. I have hit the 9-iron at this year's demo day for the PGA Merchandise show. It was a prototype. One thing I liked was when I tried to hit a knockdown shot. You could do that with ease. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin66 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And coming are they. It appears that settling up with James Patrick was more costly than anyone knew and he's trying to recoup it all back on the sale of iron sets. Price points: 3-GW $3150 3-PW $2800 4-GW $2800 4-PW $2450 5-GW $2450 5-PW $2100 That's $350 per club for those doing the math. And they're not that impressive in looks. The bounce is jacked waaaaaay up on all of the irons (example 7 iron has 12* of bounce). I was always of the school of thought of ball first contact with the club contacting turf after the ball to create compression and launch. It seems Mr. Edel has developed the first ever set of Tour Striker irons, so watch out Martin Chuck. Evidently, creating that much bounce is expensive to do. Regardless, I'm sure they're a fine forged iron, but that price point won't sell well, IMO. I don't see them lasting through the season. They'll be on the clearace rack with a quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That's friggin insane for a set of irons. I thought the Ansers were bad..... It'll be interesting to see how many rich guys buy them. What's In The Bag: Adams 9064LS Ben Hogan Edge CFT Ti Ben Hogan Apex Edge 4-PW TaylorMade ATV 50* 54* Mizuno Bettinardi BC3 Tour Issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tireman Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Agree that the price is crazy .. however I note from the "freaked posters" that they seem to have no problem paying big $$ for putters, custom shafts for their drivers, puring and tweaking lofts etc.. Edel seems to be on to something and have a lot of very happy clients with their putters and wedges.. A custom putter from Edel could run well over $750.. Scotty Camerons are over $350 off the rack and Tour Rat putters are over $1,000.. A lot of friends who have the Edel wedges swear by them! If you gave a tour pro a set of 20 year old Walmart clubs he would beat all of us with ease.. Most important will be to see how they perform in the hands of those who are lucky enough to get them .. Then we will know if they will be the latest "clearance rack special" or if the big boys will be introducing new bounce options on their irons .. Cheers to all .. ... and yes they are offering a muscle back .. 150 sets of cavity and 50 sets of muscle back in this first offering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY ZINGER Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Being a resident in the land of milk and honey, I have had the good fortune to have been able to play a few rounds with JP. While I don't want to comment on the Edel V. JP scenario, as my writing will come off as completely bias, I can say that JP is one of the nicest guys you'll ever encounter in the industry. He's got a unique skill set, and truly has a passion for his work. He always has his bag full of prototypes and he's always testing his theories and designs on course. He has a grind coming out that will make a chop look like a tour player out of the greenside bunkers. I did manage to sneak this one while he was looking for my ball OB...hand ground/stamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie3Jack Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 In my one time dealing with JP I thought he was very nice, polite, willing to answer questions and had no problem. I'm just saying that what he was telling me at the PGA Show is different from what some people interpret now. I have been told that part of the pricing on Edel's irons is due to the labor, 20 hours or so spent on each set. I think people don't realize the difference in the business model between Edel and other OEM's such as Mizuno. Edel is not really designed for repeat business. Their business model revolves mostly around making sales from putters and the putters are designed with the idea that they are so well customized for the golfer that it's the only Edel putter they really need. Whereas somebody like Titleist makes Scotty Camerons and the golfer may purchase different models because that's what they want to try out. So with that, the pricing points are going to be very different. The typical OEM will go with a lower price in hopes to get repeat business and Edel is likely going with a higher price because they will likely not get repeat business (outside of a golfer getting a putter, then a wedge, etc). I've repeated my business with Edel because I thought the idea behind the putter fitting was dead on. And to my surprise, they have virtually everything covered in custom fitting when it comes to putters that I can think of. Recently I got a belly putter and as happy as I was with my regular Edel putter, now that I've figured out the belly putter, my putting is starting to become silly good. I also loved the concepts of the wedge designs, particularly moving the CoG and the scores more out away from the hosel. The LW is becoming a favorite club of mine because I can hit virtually any shot with it and I have uncanny distance control with it on full swings. I personally can't afford the irons, but I will say that I believe that those irons will provide some clear advantages to the golfer because that's what I have experienced with their putters and wedges. 3JACK Author of Pro Golf Synopsis. The Moneyball approach to golf strategy and analysis.Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10° loft, UST Mamiya VTS Red 7x, 44-3/8” long, 2,825 kg/cm^2 MOIGONZO WOOD: confidential2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 17° loft, 40-7/8" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-HiCLK, 20° loft, 40" KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (stiff)4-6 iron: Wishon 575MMC (CB)7-PW: Wishon 575MMC (MB)SW: Edel Golf driver grind, 52° loft, 16° bounce, Nippon WV 125 shaft.LW: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60° loft, 27° bounce, Nippon WV 125 ShaftPutter: Edel Golf Columbia Custom Made, 35" long, 72° lie angle, 3° loft. Ball: Titleist Pro V1xGrips: PURE Grips P2 Wrap (red)Shoes: FootJoy Dry-Joy (black, size 14)3Jack's Golf Blog - http://3jack.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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