Feelin Groovy

[revkev]

Okay I'm sure that this was discussed here ad naseum two years ago but I wasn't here then and I can be pretty nauseating so here goes.

 

In asking about adjusting to my new irons (which aren't here yet but I'm hopeful for a knock on the door as I work from home today) Rover Rick made the comment that I'm getting the second generation of the new grooves and thus should see that much of a difference.

 

I have received my wedges, played a round with them and now hit several hunderd practice balls with them - all of those practice balls were hit from 50 yards in. Honestly I hardly notice any difference. In fact I believe I get more spin on a full shot from a clean lie in the fairway (probably because of the shaft) and identical spin on chips and pitches from a clean lie. It should be noted that I am not a high spin player although I do understand how and am fully capable of putting a good deal of spin on my short irons and wedges when need be its not the norm or prefered shot for me - I'm a classic sweeper - I take shallow divots and like it that way. I certainly do spin the ball a bit around the green for control but again not exceptionally so.

 

The one place I noticed a difference was a full shot from light rough where I clearly don't seem to get as much spin as I did with my old wedges - Two older Ping Tour wedges and a Ping Eye 2. I really wasn't in position on the course to have a flier - The rough was very wet the other day and not really condusive to flier lies - they'll come as we move into the fall and as I have my full complement of irons (maybe today, please, please, please, Mr. Postman.)

 

At any rate lots of you guys/gals are in the know - How big a difference is there between the first round of new grooves and this second round? I'm really having trouble understanding why the change in rules is this is the only difference - it will impact me in just a bit over a year - I do play in FGA tournaments that will implement the rules changes for those tournaments in 2014. I understand that this only effects a certain few players but why? Of course thanks to MGS, Mizuno and Scor I don't have to worry so much about it as I was before.

[RoverRick]

When they first announced this rule it pissed me off. I hated it. I was ready to go into the mountains and raise a rebel army and march on TPC Sawgrass and lead the revolution. I was going to be Rover Che. Viva La Spin. Then I found out how far Sawgrass was from the mountains and it was hot and decided to rethink. And went and bought new wedges with the old grooves instead. I spent several years in the Army running around the woods and remembered we did not have cable in the woods. Actually, now I remember how nice it used to be to sit in a padded chair with a back and to just sit with you shoes off, but I digress.

 

The logic of their wisdom was absent in my opinion. If you want to place a premium on accuracy over power, why change the grooves that effect everyone, vs. course changes, such as longer rough or narrowing the fairway with hazards etc. Just like DL3 did at Midinah, he cut the rough so that the long hitters had the advantage.

 

The theory of the C-C wedges is that while it spins about the same for fairway it spins less from the rough. This means that it is possible, especially if there is moisture in the grass, for the ball to take off without spin. This leads to a shot that goes much farther than expected. A flier.

 

I tried one of the first generation Callaway C-C wedges. I only had it for a few weeks but did not like it at all. To me I did not spin or feel anything like my old Titleist so I sold it, along with all of my Callaway irons and went to Titleist ZB irons. During this period, I totally revamped my swing, no early release, hitting the ball with forward shaft lean. Before my key for stopping the ball on a dime was to hit the bounce of the club on the ground directly under the ball with the shaft straight up and down. With forwards shaft lean, the ball goes farther and rolls a bit more. I will admit that before I was adding loft to the club at impact, and now I am delofting the club. So I have to hit the ball softer in order for it not to fly too far. My old wedges were not performing anything like they used to because I was no longer swinging them the same.

 

So with the swing changes it was time to revisit the C-C wedges. Enter the Mizuno MP T11 with the Spinner shaft. This was the second generation of the C-C wedges I think. I have read that the Titleist SM4 is the fourth generation and that they are close to what we had before the rule change. These are the number 1 wedge on the PGA Tour so there may be something to that. However, The Mizzy wedge really fits my game or my game has changed to really fit that wedge. I get plenty of spin from the rough if I am 70 yards and out. But now I do not want that spin if I am inside of that. I try to avoid the short sided shot.

 

I do not think that the grooves have affected the pros that much because like me, only much better, they have adapted their game plan to go along with the equipment. I am still not happy and think this was a stupid rule because it has not affected the driving of the ball at all. It does affect the second shot. But when you have greens the size of a six bedroom house what difference does it make. If made a huge difference when I played greens that were a 50 foot circle.

[revkev]

Oh don't get me wrong I think this is a ridiculous rule that doesn't accomplish a thing - I'm also very glad that I waited to get new equipment - particularly I'm glad now given that the equipment is at a very affordable price - thank you MGS and our contest sponsors.

 

But given how the new equipment performs it seems to me that it's making the USGA appear to be even more short sighted than I gave it credit for.

[ZenGolfer]

Personally, I dont see a whole lot of difference from the new grooves. A lot of the manufacturers have simply added more grooves to the clubface or added some kind of texturing to the face in order to get back some of the spin they lost.

Ive owned every wedge that Mizuno has come out with since the old MP-T/MP-R wedges, including the T-10, T-11, R-12 and Ive even demoded the T-4 wedges for a few rounds and dont notice a whole lot of difference. Fairway, rough, bunkers, tight lies; I just dont see a huge difference.

[RoverRick]

It is simply amazing how course set up can change the way you have to play this game. When we got the new course guru, the rough got longer, the pins got closer to the edge, the greens got faster, the trash got emptied quicker and the hoses were rolled up nicer also but the last two did not effect play.

 

The point is if our little course on a tight budget can make some scheduling changes in the mowing plan or adjust the mower height or what ever he did, and move some pins and change the course that much. The USGA should have talked to the PGA and worked it out that way the courses were set up rather than change the grooves.

 

DL3 had the rough cut at Medinah and in essence reinstated to old grooves for this week. The PGA or who ever sets up the course decides every week if they want the old grooves or new grooves simply by determining the rough height.

[RookieBlue7]

I haven't seen any changes in spin. Course I'm also playing Scratch TD's with Spinners and a 64* with a Tiger stepped x100 in it and I hit down on the ball hard and am a digger. Compression and loft are the two main components of spin so diggers shouldn't see as much of a difference as a sweeper/slider, as the sweeper/slider doesn't compress the ball as much so it's not on the face as long.

[RoverRick]

Good post Dude. Have you had a chance to hit the SM4s? As you know, I play the 11s & I love 'em and as much as I flip drivers, putters and to a lesser degree, hybrids, I do not mess with my irons and especially my wedges. Though I've read a lot about the SM4s, I haven't hit them and the guys who play Titleist clubs play them, however none of the guys in my swat who did not play Titleist irons or wedges has switched to them.

 

Any thoughts on 'em?

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

 

I have not hit the SM4's. I went to the T11 Mizzies and forged versus cast and have not really cared about the Vokeys anymore. The spinner shaft on the T11's is great IMHO.

[revkev]

I like it -

 

I'm in the Andretti - I mean Jacobs camp here - I can spin the ball but not that much - I really saw very little difference between my mizzies and my old irons from any sort of situation today - I hit a few out of the rough intentionally - Ony hit one drive in the rough but after I played my real ball I hit lots and lots of iron shots.

 

I will say I had an up and down on 3 that really made me look up and take notice of my wedges - horrible lie on the top of a bunker, high swirly rough but sitting on sand - you know the type - throw in a side hill, over a trap, to a pin that was down a tier from where I was pitching - put it under the hole 6 feet - perfect distance from where I was pitching. Really, really got my attention. I don't know that I could have hit that shot with my old sand wedge. Made the putt for par, too.

[Will Par]

Here is an article that gives a recent appraisal on the effect of the new groove rule on tour. http://golfdig.st/OJgEjZ

[revkev]

Here is an article that gives a recent appraisal on the effect of the new groove rule on tour. http://golfdig.st/OJgEjZ

 

Interesting read although as the author stated it remains inconclusive. I went to two regular tour rounds this season - Transitions and Bay Hill and saw no difference in the way the courses were being played from past trips to those venues - Innisbrook is a course that forces players to hit the fairway - Bay Hill not so much - it's avoid the water and bomb it out there sort of thing - To my eye it looks as if Bomb and Gauge is alive and well and that it is actually course conditions that have the greatest ability to reign that in.

 

This was also an exceedingly unusual year weather wise - much of the country was in a drought - Florida early, mid-West late - that meant lots of courses were played in unusual conditions.

 

My money is on that being the factor here although I'm at a loss to explain why.

 

I will say that having played with the SCOR wedges for a month that I get more spin on them with any sort of full shot than I did with my old wedges. I do notice a difference on part shots or around the green if I'm in light ruff - there is a far great chance of a "flier" where the ball comes out with very little spin and runs 20 feet past on me - I need to learn to hit these shots higher and control them with trajectory rather than spin.

 

That's on the list of things to work on this winter.

[RookieBlue7]

One thing about the tour guys vs joe schmoes. They can walk up to the tour truck if they even think their grooves are getting dull and say "hey, I need a new wedge". We buy ours, and play them much longer and wear them out much more than they do. Rev has seen what new wedges can do, with sharp grooves. He's saying he's getting more spin than ever. Is it more or does it seem like it because he's been playing dulled grooves and doesn't recall what those wedges were like new? If we could all just say hey, I need a new wedge, we'd see less effect as well.

[revkev]

One thing about the tour guys vs joe schmoes. They can walk up to the tour truck if they even think their grooves are getting dull and say "hey, I need a new wedge". We buy ours, and play them much longer and wear them out much more than they do. Rev has seen what new wedges can do, with sharp grooves. He's saying he's getting more spin than ever. Is it more or does it seem like it because he's been playing dulled grooves and doesn't recall what those wedges were like new? If we could all just say hey, I need a new wedge, we'd see less effect as well.

 

Absolutely!

 

And are you saying my memory is failing?

[RookieBlue7]

Absolutely!

 

And are you saying my memory is failing?

 

No, but don't you have older Ping wedges before these?

[GolfSpy WD]

That's why I use Dynacraft wedges which I can replace yearly if I need

[revkev]

I did have very old Ping wedges before these - So they're the ones with the dimentia then. Few......

 

Smart move WD - I don't hit my wedges full that many times so I'm thinking three seasons or so and the grooves are starting to go on me.

[GolfSpy WD]

I did have very old Ping wedges before these - So they're the ones with the dimentia then. Few......

 

Smart move WD - I don't hit my wedges full that many times so I'm thinking three seasons or so and the grooves are starting to go on me.

 

I stole the idea from Jbones actually

 

The worst is the sand wedge. I haven't been playing courses with a lot of sand recently, but it wears really fast. I also avoid grass tees when they're all sand under a thin layer of grass.

[RookieBlue7]

I just make sure to wipe mine after every shot, especially on the range, to keep the change of sandblasting them as low as possible. Usually replace once every season or two, depending on how much I play and practice.

 

For those looking to replace some wedges, Rock Bottom has some good deals up at the moment.