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McIlroy to Nike


Siravo82

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I hope not. Players who switch from what they are used to generally take a year or more to get adjusted to the new equipment. Why would he want to change? Obviously. money is the answer, but right now he is the biggest fish at Titleist and will be, but as long as Tiger is at Nike, Rory or anyone else will be second to him.

 

However, Nike has deep pockets.

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I'm a huge Rory fan. I'll become a huge Rory hater if he goes to Nike. I hate Nike. Couldn't stand looking at my boy wearing the swoosh,

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Adams 9064LS

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TaylorMade ATV 50* 54*

Mizuno Bettinardi BC3 Tour Issue

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It will happen. He´ll be a Nike player sooner or later, probably already in 2013. They´ll pay him so much more money that it´s not a fair game against Titleist. Nike will make him clubs with whatever specifications he wants.

 

Nike will stop at nothing to get what they want. I discussed this with a friend today. Nike wanted to sponsor the English national soccer team but they had a contract with Umbro until 2018. Well, England plays with Nike jerseys today. They just bought Umbro and ended the contract with England. And what did they do when they finally got the England contract? Sold Umbro with a loss of course :)

 

I love Nike. Great company. They have an image of "total golf". These other so called "true" golf companies are owned by Asian conglomerates and are not as pure as on might think. The future of golf depends on companies like Nike, TMag and Cobra Puma. Rory, whoever TaylorMade has and Fowler.

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Yeah, after I wrote that I got to thinking, Nike is a big enough pond for a dozen Tigerfishes and Roryfishes. Not only that while initially they made junk, IMHO, they are making pretty good stuff now. It is not like Tiger's and Rory's equipment is terribly different.

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I'm a huge Rory fan. I'll become a huge Rory hater if he goes to Nike. I hate Nike. Couldn't stand looking at my boy wearing the swoosh,

 

Hate Nike based on what? I don't understand why you would hate Nike? Not trying to push anything on anyone I just don't get this comment

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I think a move to Nike could be a good thing.

 

AJ

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I love Nike. Great company. They have an image of "total golf". These other so called "true" golf companies are owned by Asian conglomerates and are not as pure as on might think. The future of golf depends on companies like Nike, TMag and Cobra Puma. Rory, whoever TaylorMade has and Fowler.

What is that suppposed to mean?

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

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Personally I think if he changes from Titliest to Nike it would be a huge mistake. He is so in grooved with Titliest that changing now would be like taking some one that took care of you good and bad days and smacking them in the face but that business

Whats in the bag:

 

Titleist 910D2 10.5 Graphite Design Y7-S

Adams 1600 proto 14.5 Graphite Design AD DJ

Titleist 910F 17 Ust Tour Black

Titleist 910H 22 Diamana Kali

Adams Idea Pro A12 4-9 KBS C Taper

Titleist Vokey SM4 46 degree w/ DG Spinner

Mizuno MP R12 50-54-58 DG spinner

Ping Redwood ZB

Ball Nike 20XI-X

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What is that suppposed to mean?

 

It means that some companies develop golf as a complete game. They have an interest in everything in the game - clothes, balls, clubs, shoes, bags, players - and in the future probably courses. And most importantly they work hard to make golf more popular, reach new groups of people. I know that it of course is all business, they´re not doing it because they´re nice people that believe in karma.

 

I´ve often heard that products from especially Titleist, Ping and Mizuno are superior to products from Nike, Cobra Puma and TaylorMade. The reason is supposed to be that the first three are "true" golf companies. That´s just complete nonsense. Nike, Cobra Puma and TaylorMade are capable of producing just as good equipment as any other brand. It´s a question of what your market is.

 

I think companies like Nike, Cobra Puma and TaylorMade are more open to change in the game of golf. Change the way we look at equipment. Develop new technology. Golf can reach so incredibly many potential new golfers through those brands. If we were stuck with only the "true and pure" companies the game wouldn´t grow and we wouldn´t see the amazing leaps in technology.

 

I know this probably doesn´t make sense to a lot of people :D I don´t have many friends....... :D

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Since Tiger, Nike has given this image of "New Golf" opposed to classic golf, of defying, No Fear attitudes, etc. Titleist in the other hand has tried to keep the image of "sophisticated classic golfing". I don't oppose any of both, and I think Rory being a young aggressive player might be a good choice for Nike to sponsor, but I would prefer him to stay with his smooth swing rather than Swoosh Swing...

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I'm a doubter. I don't think Titleist would let him go. But hey, I think I've been wrong before ;)

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Interesting. I'd be surprised if this was more than a rumour, but you can bet some of Nike's marketing money that it is something they've definitely thought about/are thinking about seriously.

 

I think that Titleist would def like to keep Rory, but not sure they could compete when the trucks of loot roll in.

 

A Rory/Titleist divorce would be bad for Titleist, not so much for Rory. He's definitely in a powerful position.

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I do not know, Titleist has never been about the clubs, or the big name play who use their products. They are all about a couple of hundred small named players who use their ball. You do not see a Titleist commercial with a big name player. You see a Titleist commercial with 15 big and medium named players. Phil, Ernie, Davis, even Tiger have all been Titleist at one point. They all left and were replaced with Rickie, Bubba, Webb and now Bud Cauley.

 

The names that Titleist needs to keep happy are Bob and Scotty. Those are the names that bring in the dollars. Wedges, putters, shoes and balls are the main elements in Titleist future success. Rory may never win another tournament, BUT I promise you that Bob Vokey wedges will and Scotty Cameron putters will and the Pro V1 (x) will. I would not be surprised it is tomorrow.

 

Titleist has been masterful at continually upgrading the Pro V1 and keeping the name the same. Not the people who are reading this but the guys at the club do not even realize that they are changing the ball. However, I heard one say a couple of months ago that he has tried several ball and none have ever beaten the Pro V1x. I also heard him say one time about how the older ball had lost some of its properties, when in reality, it is just the old version versus the newer version but he does not care. A Pro V1 is a Pro V1.

 

I do not see Rory leaving Titleist as bad for Titleist. I see it being worse for Rory short term and mainly because the ball.

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There are a few reasons why this *could* make sense.

 

Whether Titleist would own up to it or not, their recent history has proven to be a feeding ground for other golf companies. Woods, Mickelson, Els, Fowler, they've all left Titleist to sign equipment deals with other companies. Also worth mentioning is that Titleist doesn't really backfill their losses with well established players. Instead, they're more of a developer of talent, and when the guys hit superstar status, many go elsewhere. Sometimes the aging golfers come back.

 

The future of Titleist, on the endorsement side is guys like Webb Simpson and Jason Duffner, Bud Cauley, and most importantly, the golf ball. The Golf Ball is, and will always be the thing at Titleist. All of that said, Rory is a once in a generation talent, and I don't see Titleist letting him go without a fight (parent company FILA, however, might feel differently).

 

The idea of Rory jumping to Nike *might* also make sense from the Nike side of things. They like to have the #1 Guy (Duval, Tiger), and they're not afraid to roll the dice every now and again (Michelle Wie...whoops). Bringing Rory into the fold would amount to an acknowledgement of sorts that the Tiger era is over. Regardless of what you think about the man or his game, the guy hasn't moved the equipment needle for Nike for a few years now. The caveat here is that Rory, while probably one of only a handful of guys who have the potential to sell equipment on name alone (as opposed to the numbers game some others play), I'd put him on the bottom of the that list, and I suspect Nike knows that too. My point is that even Nike Golf has but so much money to spend, and so IF Rory, then it probably only happens with a big pay cut for Tiger...which likely means Tiger goes elsewhere.

 

Side note if you're wondering... Rickie and Bubba...those are the two right now, and I'd rather have Rickie. The guy moves PUMA apparel, and there's more money to be made there than anywhere else in the game.

 

All of this assumes Rory wants to go to Nike. He's winning with what's in his bag...and Titleist takes very good care of him. As others here have pointed out, and as guys inside the OEMs have told me; these equipment switches are no easy thing, and the money lost as a result of adjusting can easily equal, or exceed the value of an endorsement deal.

 

But for the sake of argument, if we assume any of this plays out, my guess is Tiger back to Titleist.

 

And will all of that said...if the end game is to sell more equipment by bringing on a big name...it won't work...at least not well. Yes...some people will buy X club because of one guy, but the pyramid of influence isn't about having one guy any longer. It's that numbers game I talked about. It's about having the #1 (driver, hybrid, ball) in Golf. Widespread popularity is what sells now. TaylorMade figured it out/adjusted first, which is in part, why they're where they are right now.

 

One final observation...things are extremely quiet at Nike right now. I've been with MGS for 3 years (hardly a lifetime, I know), but in that 3 years, no major golf company has been as quiet as Nike has been since the NG360 launch. Yes...new balls are coming, but otherwise...hardly a whisper, and this one thing more than any other leads me to think the Rory thing probably isn't happening.

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It means that some companies develop golf as a complete game. They have an interest in everything in the game - clothes, balls, clubs, shoes, bags, players - and in the future probably courses. And most importantly they work hard to make golf more popular, reach new groups of people. I know that it of course is all business, they´re not doing it because they´re nice people that believe in karma.

 

I´ve often heard that products from especially Titleist, Ping and Mizuno are superior to products from Nike, Cobra Puma and TaylorMade. The reason is supposed to be that the first three are "true" golf companies. That´s just complete nonsense. Nike, Cobra Puma and TaylorMade are capable of producing just as good equipment as any other brand. It´s a question of what your market is.

 

I think companies like Nike, Cobra Puma and TaylorMade are more open to change in the game of golf. Change the way we look at equipment. Develop new technology. Golf can reach so incredibly many potential new golfers through those brands. If we were stuck with only the "true and pure" companies the game wouldn´t grow and we wouldn´t see the amazing leaps in technology.

 

I know this probably doesn´t make sense to a lot of people :D I don´t have many friends....... :D

My question had more to do with your, "Asian" comment.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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My question had more to do with your, "Asian" comment.

 

When I read his comment the first time, and just re read it again, I took that to mean that the parent company of Titleist, Acushnet, Fila, Mirae Asset Group, which I guess makes this not the parent company, but the great grandparent company of Titleist was a corperation that dealt with many other things besides sports equipment and that they were based in Asia. While Nike only does sports equipment and appareal, Mirae's main income comes from other things like financial asset management. Acushnet is run as a seperate entity but its corperate great grand parents do asset management. Nike has no other outside interest other than sports. The "Asian" comment I did not take as a slam or a slur any more than if he would have said that Nike was an American Company or Royal Bank of Scottland or Mercedes or BMW are European companies.

 

Keep in mind that Furu was the one who said it and he is European. So for him to say Asian, America or whatever it can be just as easily geographic rather than any other issue.

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When I read his comment the first time, and just re read it again, I took that to mean that the parent company of Titleist, Acushnet, Fila, Mirae Asset Group, which I guess makes this not the parent company, but the great grandparent company of Titleist was a corperation that dealt with many other things besides sports equipment and that they were based in Asia. While Nike only does sports equipment and appareal, Mirae's main income comes from other things like financial asset management. Acushnet is run as a seperate entity but its corperate great grand parents do asset management. Nike has no other outside interest other than sports. The "Asian" comment I did not take as a slam or a slur any more than if he would have said that Nike was an American Company or Royal Bank of Scottland or Mercedes or BMW are European companies.

 

Keep in mind that Furu was the one who said it and he is European. So for him to say Asian, America or whatever it can be just as easily geographic rather than any other issue.

Thats just funny to me because Ive heard many people accusing Nike of being bad for the game because they are a general sports company, not a golf-specific company.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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Thats just funny to me because Ive heard many people accusing Nike of being bad for the game because they are a general sports company, not a golf-specific company.

 

 

Its funny because Mizuno is known world wide for its Volleyball and Judo equipment rather than its golf clubs for example and no one can say they are inferior to anything, but people just don't know about that.

 

Nike is "new" to golf compared to other brands, but no other company can invest as much money on golf as Nike. Saying Nike clubs can't compare to Titleist or TM is absurd. Yes, they look awful and the graphic designers should be shot one by one, but performance wise, they are just as good as any "big" brand in golf

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Have been very busy this weekend and haven´t had the time to read replies regarding my "Asian" comment. I can´t see anything wrong with it. Not negative in any way. Fila - Acushnet - Titleist connection? Asian companies buying golf courses in Europe and America? Just let me know what was wrong with my comment because I have to be honest - I can´t see anything wrong with it. Different parts of the world = different ways to write and speak.

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Tiger won't be leaving Nike, T. He sells more equipment in his sleep than most other golfers combined. He moves the needle.

 

Rory and Tiger are good friends, and while going to Nike would make sense, I don't see it.

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Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
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Tiger won't be leaving Nike, T. He sells more equipment in his sleep than most other golfers combined. He moves the needle.

 

Rory and Tiger are good friends, and while going to Nike would make sense, I don't see it.

 

I'm not saying he's definitely going, but the whispers are Nike is not keen to keep paying him what they have been. Sure...On name alone Tiger still sells more equipment than most, but nowhere close to what he was doing for Nike 4 or 5 years ago. He's still high on the list, but everything else being equal, he's not #1 any more. So at this point it's perfectly reasonable for Nike to wonder if they should pay him the same money for what is clearly diminished returns.

 

The rumor is that Nike slashed his contract by 50% after the scandal. When it comes time to renew, I'm nearly certain Nike will be looking to reduce it even further.

 

 

My guess is, if Tiger is willing to eat a pay cut, he stays at Nike. If not, he'll go elsewhere.

 

You're right though...most PGA golfers don't move the needle much at all. I suspect guys like Rory and Luke have a bigger impact overseas. Here...meh.

 

I expect the trend will be towards the TaylorMade model. Strength in numbers and whatnot. The one guy model isn't going to work anymore, unless one of two things is true:

 

1. The guy is unquestionably the best golfer on the planet. That's not true of anyone right now.

2. The guy brings something special to the table (the it factor).

 

Tiger was unique in that he had both, although the 2nd was largely a product of the 1st.

 

Bubba (charisma and personality) remains an outstanding get for PING. He moves the needle. He sells equipment, and dollar for dollar, I'd bet he's more valuable than Tiger right now.

 

Rickie Fowler is THE guy from an impact perspective. He's selling clubs for Cobra (and likely as many as Bubba sells for PING or Tiger for Nike), but more importantly from an ROI standpoint, it's his style. Apparel is a huge money maker for any OEM who can sell it. R&D and materials cost are substantially less, and profit margins as a result are much larger.

 

Dollar for dollar, right now anyway, Tiger Woods is no Rickie Fowler. So while I wouldn't suggest there are many guys ahead of Tiger, he's not the first guy I'd want on my pro roster. He's not even #2. Point is...nobody, not even Nike is going to pay #1 money for a #3 with diminishing value at the cash register (especially if they can replace him with Rory for even money or better). Final note...don't underestimate Rory's Oakley contract. Not sure the length there, but Nike would definitely want to get him in their apparel ASAP. Whether that's a buyout, or a wait it out, I don't know.

 

Of course...none of this might actually happen, but I'm on a hot streak right now (Greg Hopkins to Back9Network), so I'm going to let it ride.

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after reading through most of these comments ive come to this conclusion. What if he goes to Nike? Will it effect the way you purchase clubs? if so you should stop listening to marketing people, and start worrying about performacne and how the clubs can make you better, no matter what brand they are.

 

Will it effect the game of golf? No, it just means that someone will be using different clubs and wearing different clothes.

 

Will it effect Mcilroy? possibly, but he knows what he is doing and he wouldnt do it if it wasnt for the best.

 

Will Nike drop Tiger? Absolutely not, Tiger invented Nike golf and without him it would be like Nike without Michael Jordan.

 

I dont think he will leave. When he switched to the 913 woods he has had the greatest performing year yet. and if he does leave, who cares now he plays with Nike's.

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I'm not saying he's definitely going, but the whispers are Nike is not keen to keep paying him what they have been. Sure...On name alone Tiger still sells more equipment than most, but nowhere close to what he was doing for Nike 4 or 5 years ago. He's still high on the list, but everything else being equal, he's not #1 any more. So at this point it's perfectly reasonable for Nike to wonder if they should pay him the same money for what is clearly diminished returns.

 

The rumor is that Nike slashed his contract by 50% after the scandal. When it comes time to renew, I'm nearly certain Nike will be looking to reduce it even further.

 

 

My guess is, if Tiger is willing to eat a pay cut, he stays at Nike. If not, he'll go elsewhere.

 

You're right though...most PGA golfers don't move the needle much at all. I suspect guys like Rory and Luke have a bigger impact overseas. Here...meh.

 

I expect the trend will be towards the TaylorMade model. Strength in numbers and whatnot. The one guy model isn't going to work anymore, unless one of two things is true:

 

1. The guy is unquestionably the best golfer on the planet. That's not true of anyone right now.

2. The guy brings something special to the table (the it factor).

 

Tiger was unique in that he had both, although the 2nd was largely a product of the 1st.

 

Bubba (charisma and personality) remains an outstanding get for PING. He moves the needle. He sells equipment, and dollar for dollar, I'd bet he's more valuable than Tiger right now.

 

Rickie Fowler is THE guy from an impact perspective. He's selling clubs for Cobra (and likely as many as Bubba sells for PING or Tiger for Nike), but more importantly from an ROI standpoint, it's his style. Apparel is a huge money maker for any OEM who can sell it. R&D and materials cost are substantially less, and profit margins as a result are much larger.

 

Dollar for dollar, right now anyway, Tiger Woods is no Rickie Fowler. So while I wouldn't suggest there are many guys ahead of Tiger, he's not the first guy I'd want on my pro roster. He's not even #2. Point is...nobody, not even Nike is going to pay #1 money for a #3 with diminishing value at the cash register (especially if they can replace him with Rory for even money or better). Final note...don't underestimate Rory's Oakley contract. Not sure the length there, but Nike would definitely want to get him in their apparel ASAP. Whether that's a buyout, or a wait it out, I don't know.

 

Of course...none of this might actually happen, but I'm on a hot streak right now (Greg Hopkins to Back9Network), so I'm going to let it ride.

 

Dollar for dollar, Tiger Woods still outsells Rickie Fowler, guarantee you that. Rickie gets lots of younger golfers, but he's also turned off lots of older golfers that hate the flat bills, the bright colors, and everything associated with Rickie. Say what you want about his scandal hurting him, but market research shows that after his scandal broke, while the golf ball sales dipped, Nike as a whole (golf wise) got an additional $2 million in sales that they wouldn't have gotten (study done by Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon University). Since Nike Golf was created in 2000, through current times with the 20XI, Nike has claimed 8% of the golf ball market, which seems relatively small, until you factor in Titleist has 58% and a comparable company Bridgestone has 11%, and have been at it much longer. The golf ball line up has generated $91 million in sales, for a $60 million profit for Nike. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-27054_162-57303451/the-tiger-effect-how-woods-drives-the-golf-business/

 

That's just on the golf ball side of things. Take into account several other factors. The apparel side, sure, Rickie sells a lot of clothing, but so does Tiger. Name another company that scripts outfits for their athletes for majors and releases the scripting and then releases the clothing ahead of the majors and then sells them at the torrid pace that Nike does. There's not one. The #1 thing that Rickie Fowler sells? The Puma Monoline hat, at $30 per hat (I have several myself, bend the bill on all of them). Guess what Nike created for the public last year (after Anthony Kim and a few others started wearing them and created demand)? A flatbill hat that's selling well at $30 each (stores can't keep them in stock around here where there's a surplus of Puma hats, and they go on clearance more often than Nike hats).

 

Then there's other pieces of equipment. Dustin Johnson, and several others were playing the Graphite Designs Tour AD DI for a long time, and yet no one outside of gearheads wanted or knew much about the shaft. Tiger Woods puts one in play, and made for variants start popping up in clubs without the Nike brand name on them. You wouldn't believe how many people in stores ask salesmen (I've overheard it a lot) asking sales reps if they have "that orange and white shaft Tiger has in his driver". Before that, what shaft was it that he played faithfully and regularly? That'd be the Diamana Whiteboard in his driver and Diamana Blueboard in his fairway. Those shafts still have cult followings as a result of that, and before Tiger played them, only gearheads had heard of or used them. But how many companies introduced a made for variant into their club lines?

 

Another example? Tiger Woods puts a VRS Prototype driving iron in the bag at the British this past year. Sure, Rory had been playing the 503.i, Kuchar has his Fourteen HI-660, Phil had his Callaway Razr Proto, and a bunch of others had theirs. But Tiger puts one into play (which Nike still hasn't released yet), and other companies start coming back to releasing Utility Irons (Callaway put the X-Utility Proto in Ernie's hands and he won the British with it and now folks are clamoring for Utility Irons). Who started the appeal to customers? Tiger and his stinger with the utility iron and the buzz surrounding it leading up to the British.

 

The elephant in the room right now that I haven't discussed? I'm sure you know it's coming, and I won't disappoint you in this post. Some dude named Donald absolutely loves Tiger Woods. Why? Because Donald is Scotty Cameron's birth name, and while he'd had a few tour wins prior to Tiger putting one in the bag, nothing was as big for his putter line as when Tiger started winning with one of his putters in the bag. First it was the first generation sole stamped TeI3. Tiger winning his first Masters with one was such a success, it made Scotty make a huge change to the putter. He moved the TeI3 stamp from the sole to the face, where everyone knew the name of the putter and wanted to know what TeI3 meant (Teryllium). Then, Tiger switched to his GSS tri sole that he won 13 other majors with. And the brand became infamous. The $250 putter was born (and subsequently the $300, and $350 putter). Why? Because Tiger Woods had and used and won with one and everyone wanted the club the most polarizing golfer on the planet was using. No one wanted the Blue Goose, no one wanted the Cameron Golf Internationals, nor the other Ray Cooks, nor any of the other clubs Scotty had ever put out previously. But stick Scotty and Bettinardi in a room, create the TeI3 and put it in the hands of the most polarizing figure in the golf world and let him win with it? A cult following was created, and we all know where the marketing genius took it once the consumers latched on to Tiger and his classic. Needless to say, there's a museum in Japan for Scotty Cameron.

 

Tiger Woods doesn't just create the Nike market, he generates buzz that other companies latch on to and put into their product that helps not only Nike, but other companies as well. Tiger's domestic product may be shrinking just a little, but marketing is global, and no one does it better than Nike and Tiger Woods does, especially in Asia (where he rivals Michael Jackson in global appeal). Tiger Woods is still a rockstar, he still drives the global golf market, and he's still the man sitting atop the marketing mountain in the golf world.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Dude... I started playing golf 3 years ago because of Tiger Woods.

Damn RB7, sometimes your replies leave me speechless and I can only nod in agreement.

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Dollar for dollar, Tiger Woods still outsells Rickie Fowler, guarantee you that. Rickie gets lots of younger golfers, but he's also turned off lots of older golfers that hate the flat bills, the bright colors, and everything associated with Rickie. Say what you want about his scandal hurting him, but market research shows that after his scandal broke, while the golf ball sales dipped, Nike as a whole (golf wise) got an additional $2 million in sales that they wouldn't have gotten (study done by Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon University). Since Nike Golf was created in 2000, through current times with the 20XI, Nike has claimed 8% of the golf ball market, which seems relatively small, until you factor in Titleist has 58% and a comparable company Bridgestone has 11%, and have been at it much longer. The golf ball line up has generated $91 million in sales, for a $60 million profit for Nike. http://www.cbsnews.c...-golf-business/

 

That's just on the golf ball side of things. Take into account several other factors. The apparel side, sure, Rickie sells a lot of clothing, but so does Tiger. Name another company that scripts outfits for their athletes for majors and releases the scripting and then releases the clothing ahead of the majors and then sells them at the torrid pace that Nike does. There's not one. The #1 thing that Rickie Fowler sells? The Puma Monoline hat, at $30 per hat (I have several myself, bend the bill on all of them). Guess what Nike created for the public last year (after Anthony Kim and a few others started wearing them and created demand)? A flatbill hat that's selling well at $30 each (stores can't keep them in stock around here where there's a surplus of Puma hats, and they go on clearance more often than Nike hats).

 

Then there's other pieces of equipment. Dustin Johnson, and several others were playing the Graphite Designs Tour AD DI for a long time, and yet no one outside of gearheads wanted or knew much about the shaft. Tiger Woods puts one in play, and made for variants start popping up in clubs without the Nike brand name on them. You wouldn't believe how many people in stores ask salesmen (I've overheard it a lot) asking sales reps if they have "that orange and white shaft Tiger has in his driver". Before that, what shaft was it that he played faithfully and regularly? That'd be the Diamana Whiteboard in his driver and Diamana Blueboard in his fairway. Those shafts still have cult followings as a result of that, and before Tiger played them, only gearheads had heard of or used them. But how many companies introduced a made for variant into their club lines?

 

Another example? Tiger Woods puts a VRS Prototype driving iron in the bag at the British this past year. Sure, Rory had been playing the 503.i, Kuchar has his Fourteen HI-660, Phil had his Callaway Razr Proto, and a bunch of others had theirs. But Tiger puts one into play (which Nike still hasn't released yet), and other companies start coming back to releasing Utility Irons (Callaway put the X-Utility Proto in Ernie's hands and he won the British with it and now folks are clamoring for Utility Irons). Who started the appeal to customers? Tiger and his stinger with the utility iron and the buzz surrounding it leading up to the British.

 

The elephant in the room right now that I haven't discussed? I'm sure you know it's coming, and I won't disappoint you in this post. Some dude named Donald absolutely loves Tiger Woods. Why? Because Donald is Scotty Cameron's birth name, and while he'd had a few tour wins prior to Tiger putting one in the bag, nothing was as big for his putter line as when Tiger started winning with one of his putters in the bag. First it was the first generation sole stamped TeI3. Tiger winning his first Masters with one was such a success, it made Scotty make a huge change to the putter. He moved the TeI3 stamp from the sole to the face, where everyone knew the name of the putter and wanted to know what TeI3 meant (Teryllium). Then, Tiger switched to his GSS tri sole that he won 13 other majors with. And the brand became infamous. The $250 putter was born (and subsequently the $300, and $350 putter). Why? Because Tiger Woods had and used and won with one and everyone wanted the club the most polarizing golfer on the planet was using. No one wanted the Blue Goose, no one wanted the Cameron Golf Internationals, nor the other Ray Cooks, nor any of the other clubs Scotty had ever put out previously. But stick Scotty and Bettinardi in a room, create the TeI3 and put it in the hands of the most polarizing figure in the golf world and let him win with it? A cult following was created, and we all know where the marketing genius took it once the consumers latched on to Tiger and his classic. Needless to say, there's a museum in Japan for Scotty Cameron.

 

Tiger Woods doesn't just create the Nike market, he generates buzz that other companies latch on to and put into their product that helps not only Nike, but other companies as well. Tiger's domestic product may be shrinking just a little, but marketing is global, and no one does it better than Nike and Tiger Woods does, especially in Asia (where he rivals Michael Jackson in global appeal). Tiger Woods is still a rockstar, he still drives the global golf market, and he's still the man sitting atop the marketing mountain in the golf world.

 

You've made some good points, and I some I simply can't agree with.

 

The idea that Callaway (or anyone else) started experimenting with what would eventually become the X-hybrid is preposterous. If anything you could argue that Tiger started looking at one because of the work Callaway was doing for Phil. I don't actually believe either. Neither is anything that will have widespread retail appeal. In both cases they were developed based on player needs, not because the other guys is doing it. It a niche club...nobody is going to make noise with it.

 

Any Scotty arguments miss the point. That's all the old Tiger. Yeah...he was huge for Scotty. WAS. The reality is he'll never have another Scotty in his bag so long as he's under contract to Nike. And is anybody really arguing that Methods are flying off the shelves because of it? I don't think so...guys are still buying Scotty. Tiger may have helped, but the Cameron brand is much, much bigger than Scotty.

 

The shaft argument intrigues me, but again...nothing to do with Nike (though it does illustrate a degree of needle moving). Interest is one thing, but...the gear heads, the guys who will spend $250+ for a shaft, most (not all) will make sure it's a good fit before they buy it. The general public...they aren't spending $250 on a shaft...not even if Jesus himself played it in his driver.

 

While I agree that Fowler's style turns off some of the older generation, I can assure you the same is true, twofold, for Tiger Woods as a result of the scandal. Now certainly you had guys who would never bag a Nike product before, but that numbers has absolutely increased dramatically since. Nike is banking on new Tiger starting to play like the old Tiger, and the minute they're convinced he's never going to get there again, it's over.

 

I just read the entire study. Again, it's interesting, but there are holes. It essentially gives Tiger 100% credit for the golf ball success (a ball that didn't exist before he signed on with Nike). It essentially works off the assumption that Nike wouldn't have sold a ball without him. Ludicrous.

 

It also contradicts itself a bit:

 

 

We assess Nike's decision to stand by Tiger Woods after the infamous incident in November 2009. While we have shown that the negative publicity of Tiger Woods generated relative loss in terms of revenue, profit and customer acquisition, our result indicates that even with the scandal, Nike made positive revenue, profit and customer acquisition overall.

Nike brought in less money overall and acquired fewer new customers, but since they made money, and did get some new customers, it's a win? The study almost certainly doesn't account for Tiger's pay cut (since all references to it are off-the-record, and unconfirmed by Nike), but you have to assume the numbers wouldn't look nearly as rosy, if Nike was paying Tiger the full ride.

 

I would agree completely that overseas markets are different, and that's likely where the biggest value in having Tiger Woods can be found.

 

As was just pointed out...LOTS of guys play golf because of Tiger Woods. Nobody has ever brought people to game like he did, and chances are nobody will again. But you're living in the past. That was a guy who won seemingly every tournament he entered. He won majors at the rate of 2 a year.

 

Now he's a guy who can't stop messing with his swing. When he wins, it's not much of consequence, and he's a guy who mails in putts at the Ryder Cup (I don't care...to me it's a huge difference between Europe retaining the cup, and Europe Wining the cup).

 

Fundamentally it's an argument over whether or not you think Tiger is Tiger, or Tiger was Tiger.

 

My thinking is that he's clearly a guy on the decline. The further we get from the most dominate force in golf, the more his value to sponsors decreases. You can't simply looks at what he makes a company without considering what he's costing them. Right now he's a money maker for Nike, but not at his old contract price. That's the fundamental debate here...would Nike pay new Tiger old Tiger money?

 

I don't think so...and I don't think anybody else will either. The only question really is how low will Nike go, and will it be so low that he goes elsewhere. Friends...or friendly...Tiger does not want to share Nike's spotlight with Rory. He likes being the guy. I don't think you'll see them both under the same umbrella...at least not for very long.

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Very Well stated RookieBlue7......TW is the stimulus that drives the entire industry, the active ingredient that makes the formula a success. BTW, I traded in my Newport Studio Select and bought a Slotline SSi-693 because I didn't like the feel of the SC and the Slotline had weight and a sightline that has been copied but not matched.

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder

 

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Ill leave it at these few points:

 

What was the most talked about club at the Open Championship and the months leading up to it? Twitter numbers as well as web hits show its the Nike Prototype and Tiger Woods testing it with the PXi.

 

You say the study I linked said It works off the assumption Noke wouldn't have sold a ball if it weren't for Tiger. Prior to them signing Tiger, did The Oven exist? We're they a player in the golf market? No and no. So, no, without Tiger Woods they wouldn't have sold a golf ball.

 

Who did Forbes name as their most powerful athlete in the world? That'd be Eldrick "Tiger" Woods. He's the 12th most powerful celebrity in the world, and sports there's no contemporary in the golf world (LeBron ranks 17th).

 

Without looking, what are both Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy's career earnings on the course? No one can give you a round about number for Rors, but I guarantee you anyone that cares anything about golf knows and heard Tiger surpassed $100 million in career earnings this year.

 

The Woods effect? Look at TV ratings in events he plays versus ones he doesn't. There's a stark contrast in those ratings, and no one moves the viewership needle like Tiger Woods. The majors he didn't play in post scandal? Lowest ratings in a decade. Look at other tournaments. The Honda? 78% increase in viewership due to one TW being in the field from the previous year. The Arnold Palmer? 128% uptick in viewership. Sports executive polls of golfers they most wanted to see? Tiger Woods sits at 53%, Rory was next closest at 15%.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2012/5/17/3027272/tiger-woods-slips-but-hes-still-forbes-most-powerful-athlete

 

Scotty does now have a cult following, but why? Who cared before Tiger? And never say never on Tiger putting the Scotty in the bag. He's had it out at several events this year, as recently as the FedEx cup final. When Scotty's contract was up this past year, and there were negotiations for his services, where was he linked with before ultimately Titleist resigning him? Hint, the brand has a swoosh. And why? To keep a single person happy.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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