McIlroy to Nike

[Super Tuna]

Rumor is that Gary Woodland might be next.

 

Thought that was a done deal to Callaway. Supposidly he was at their latest TV ad shoot with Phil, etc when they were dialing them into to the new X Forged and Fit Extreme's.

[GolfSpy WD]

Thought that was a done deal to Callaway. Supposidly he was at their latest TV ad shoot with Phil, etc when they were dialing them into to the new X Forged and Fit Extreme's.

 

Maybe Callaway is going to need to "wage a war" on Nike too?

[skihippy]

This to me is a huge disappointment!!!!!

[Matt Saternus]

This to me is a huge disappointment!!!!!

 

Why?

[RoverRick]

The equipment change may not effect Rory any more than showing up for the Ryder Cup singles match 10 minutes before it started. He hit a bad drive, he hit a bad approach shot, he made a good pitch and made the putt, OK, he was warmed up ready to go.

 

It is not like he did not play badly for a couple of month this year and look where he is now. For $200,000,000 for 10 years, he can get used to the new equipment in a hurry.

[The Dansome]

The equipment change may not effect Rory any more than showing up for the Ryder Cup singles match 10 minutes before it started. He hit a bad drive, he hit a bad approach shot, he made a good pitch and made the putt, OK, he was warmed up ready to go.

 

It is not like he did not play badly for a couple of month this year and look where he is now. For $200,000,000 for 10 years, he can get used to the new equipment in a hurry.

 

Exactly

[RoverRick]

I just read that Rory left China and went to Bulgaria. I was supposed to go there tomorrow, before Sandy moved everything back three weeks. But I bet Rory was not going to have to change planes 4 times like I was.

[RoverRick]

Yesterday, after my normal 18 I played 18 more with a guy that had Titleist 710 MB with DG X100s. I hit a couple of iron shots and they felt more clicky than my Mizunos and of course the KBS Tour v. DG is night and day. From everything I heard the Nikes feel better than the 710 and of course he will keep the same shafts. He will have them bent to his specks. So the only real difference is the ball.

 

But if you idolized Tiger and then were offered that money and the chance to play the exact same equipment as your idol, you will not have any qualms about the equipment.

 

This is huge for Nike. I read yesterday that they already have filmed the new commercial where Rory and Tiger are hitting red drivers on the range. Laughing it up, ala Bubba and Hunter, about their new equipment. This could be huge.

[The Dansome]

I would agree 100% cuz I've hit both the Titleist MB & the Nike VR Pro MB & I really like the VRs over the 710s. With today's technology & the skill of the fitters, they can give him the exact same spec'd club.

 

It's just that a matter of mentally, can he seperate from the 710s? The obvious answer is, yes. But my only case study in this is one man, who when Nicklaus was asked who was the greatest "iron striker" of all time, he didn't hesitate a second & spit out "Johnny Miller."

 

And trust me, Rory his never hit an iron for a season like Miller hit them for 3 seasons. Forget 2 majors & 14 tournament wins from June 1973(US Open, Oakmont)-July 1976(British open), no one in the history of the game(according to Nicklaus, though I would throw Hogan's name in there, but who am I to argue..lol) hit an iron with the precision of Miller.

 

And the McGregor VIP(his current iron) & the Staff Dynapower(his new iron) were "virtually" identical, though the Dynapowers had a tad more metal in the muscle "pad." I'm talkin a tad, and the Dynapowers were the most copied iron ever, whether it was Mizzy or MacGregor or Hogan , they had a 25+ year run, with minor modifications, of course. But for whatever reason, Miller went to hell(relatively speaking of course) in a hand basket with his irons.

 

I still consider it one of the great "mysteries" of the game. I mean, you younger guys have never seen it(over a three year period, 1973-1976), but trust me, if ya took Rory's iron shots & made a "best of" video, virtually every one of Miller's over that period were like that of Rory's best. Forget bein in a "zone." Laser-like precision was ingrained in Miller's muscle memory.

 

But that was a lagging second to Miller's mental attitude & confidence. "If I didn't HIT the pin or land it inside of SIX FEET, I was pissed. I mean it. SIX FEET. That was my target. And I hit it 95-96% of the time." Did he? Who cares! It's like when Nicklaus told a reporter that he NEVER missed a putt from 5' with a tournament on the line.

 

The reporter had a tape from TWO DAYS before of Jack missing a 5'er to tie for the lead, but Nicklaus defiantly disagreed. Same with Miller. In his mind, every iron shot was inside of 6'.

 

Then poof, it was gone. And of course, the only variable that was different were the irons. So should Rory have absolutely no problem adjusting. Obviously not.

 

But sometimes the obvious does not occur, or we would never have upsets, New England would have 3 more Super Bowls & Tiger would already have Jack in the rear view mirror. The human mind is a tricky animal. We'll see.

 

 

Just a thought

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

Man I wish I wasn't born in 1973 and had witnessed Johnny for myself. I see the TV specials and read the stories but it's just not the same. At least I saw the original Star Wars in the theaters in '77, now there's something the kids these days just don't get.

[The Dansome]

EXACTLY THIS! I couldn't think of the word. But "clicky" is it. Thanx Rick. They also felt "clickier" than the VR Pros. I don't know if that's a bad thing, though its a mental adjustment, because for me at least, the sound was different, but then again, I ain't Rory. LOL

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

Ya I noticed this too. Was definitely a smoother sound/feel with the Nike's.

[skihippy]

Why?

 

I know it's all business and its is probably best for him, but at the same time how are you going to leave who got you there to begin with. As well knowing what your leaving. Titleist has been very good to him and has some of the best equipment... Why leave besides business right?????

[The Dansome]

I know it's all business and its is probably best for him, but at the same time how are you going to leave who got you there to begin with. As well knowing what your leaving. Titleist has been very good to him and has some of the best equipment... Why leave besides business right?????

 

Everybody likes money!

[xxio]

Miller has said on more than one occassion that it wasn't so much the equipment change but an unintended body change that did in his swing.

 

He spent the offseason at his ranch splitting logs and doing chores that his shoulders and chest got too musclebound. He could never adjust.

 

That is why it is important to have a trainer. Working out correctly is key. My brother asked his trainer to change his work out to be golf specific. He has gained a club on irons and 25 yards off the tee while getting better control. From a 15 he is down to a 11 in 3months since he changed programs.

[RoverRick]

Ok, If you read what was written here I apologize because I thought I was in a different thread, but now I will reword it so it fits here,

 

We are talking about equipment changes. I reshafted my irons Thursday and apparently did not get the mix right on the epoxy because the 7-G heads came loose his morning. I played holes 3-18 with D, 3W, 2i, 4,5,6,irons and a Sand and Lob wedge. I borrowed a 9 iron on the fourth hole and it was way short. Borrowed another on the next hole that went long. So after that I thought I would stick with what I know. I did have 3 doubles and 2 single bogies that I can not blame on having the wrong club. I had 2 birdies and 4 more attempts (less than 15 foot putts) when using a 6 iron inside 150 yards.

 

It was much better to play the clubs I was used to, however, I have only been playing clubs in this arrangement for 3 days, and already felt more comfortable than a strange set. However, if I would have had an hour with any of those clubs I could have played well with them, and I ain't no Rory. Changing clubs in the middle of a round may be a problem but not with time.

 

Rory has two months to get used to new equipment. Big deal. The Johnny Miller's who may have had the best swing ever, obviously had bigger issues than just the clubs. Yesterday, for fun I swapped putters every hole, it made no difference. Today, I got to hit a lot of 6 irons different lengths, big deal.

 

I did have fun with it, especially on the par 3's. I would through some grass in the air and say, "What do you think, 6 iron?" I hit it once to 110 and the next time to 130 and both times I was within 15 feet of the hole on the par 3's. And made neither putt but that is another issue. The other par 3 was a 4 iron so it made no difference there.

[Mrs.Manbearpig]

I love RORY who cares who he's sponsored by he's awesomeo!

[RookieBlue7]

You guys realize the irons they're playing aren't like you or I walking into a store and buying them right? They give them 15 sets from their best forgings and let them hit them. If they don't like them, they make up 15 more until they find 2 they like. Then, they bend and grind and anything else necessary to fit their eye. Then chrome them and poof you have it. Tiger has never played a retail version of their iron, different forgings, etc. His originals were modeled off his 681T's and restamped with Nike branding. The blades he played prior to last year still have never been offered. His specs are also really weird. But when you're paying a guy that much, you do it over and over till he's completely happy.

[BK in TEXAS]

I reshafted my irons Thursday and apparently did not get the mix right on the epoxy because the 7-G heads came loose his morning.

FWIW...the faster the dry time, the more critical it is to get the mixture perfect. I'm far from perfect.....which is why I always use the 24 hour stuff......and patience.

[RookieBlue7]

Yep, and I'm sure that you know about the early days at Titleist when Miura did his forgings, though everything else was Titleist.

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

 

Miura has never forged any of Tiger's irons, according to both parties. Tiger's Titleists were Hoffman forgings and the Nikes were Kyoei's.

[RookieBlue7]

incorrect statement, in fact I posted the web site on MGS. Unless the site and it's contents are a total lie, which I find very hard to believe, Miura did indeed do the forgings. I'll find the web site. In fact, I posted it out front and back in the forum.

 

According to the site, and there is a picture of Miura-San at the top, Titleist used Miura's 14 step forging process.

 

I don't post opinion, unless stated.

 

I'll be back ta ya shortly

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

 

Tiger Woods, the world's top-ranked golfer, who is paid about $20 million a year to endorse Nike equipment, said at a news conference last month that he never has used Miura clubs or met Miura himself. Beth Gast, a spokeswoman for Nike Inc.'s golf division, said in an e-mail that Miura never has made clubs for the Beaverton, Oregon-based company.

 

 

From a Tom Stites interview:

I've heard that for a number of years now and I welcome the chance to respond to it. Never in the past, not now, not ever, will any of the Nike irons that Tiger plays be forged Miura products, that's a fact. What has created some of this confusion is, prior to my joining Nike Golf, that I actually did consulting design work for Mr. Miura.

 

So he was one of my clients during my independent phase and he's a wonderful gentleman. He makes an incredibly good product and we helped him develop some things for the North American market and developed that relationship. Some people have taken that and kind of embellished and exaggerated it to think that we might actually be using his product or his clubs for Tiger and any of our Tour professionals.

 

That's just not the case. We built some base rough forgings at the Cornell Company in Chicago originally. From those blank forgings, we had a machine to build out Tiger's prototypes and other clubs since the beginning of Nike Golf. Ever since then we've taken those to a production headquarters I worked with when I was back at the Hogan company and we've gone down a unique and individual path to market for all the Nike products that did not include Mr. Miura.

 

I wish him well but there's just simply no truth to the fact that Nike products have been manufactured by or indeed been created in any part of Mr. Miura's iron lab.

 

 

 

And I misspoke earlier, they're not Kyoei forgings.

[TWShoot67]

Somewhere I seen it written that ENDO was the foundry that did the first Nike retail blades and they also did the First Pro Combo's. But you will still see guys trying to sell the Nike split back Proto's ( as Miura's). The ones that Casey played for a few seasons being touted as being forged by Miura again when in fact they were ENDO forgings as well. All the Nike haters will say that the first iron Tiger played was a Mizuno 14/29 rebadged, others will say that the Titleist 681's were also just Mizuno's rebadged. Why is it that no one can think with all the money that Nike has that they couldn't have their own R&D and find their own foundry to do the work. I have a Brand New set of 681's still and they look nothing like my Mizuno mp-29's or 14's. Mizuno's had much more offset and much different muscle. It's been a subject that has been beaten to death as to Nike using Miura and Tiger playing Titleist Miura bladesand Nike miura blades. Titleist did have a run of Limited edition 500 sets made 681 T's that were supposedly done by MIURA that had the actual stamping 681 T 1/50 thru 500/500, supposedly they came with COA. Not to be confused with the 2500 sets of Hoffman forged 681 T's. I had a chance to buy a BN set of the Miura 681 T's years ago for 550.00 and blew it. I've seen them sell for over 4,000.00 on ebay.

[TWShoot67]

Here's a pic of Miura set 681's Titleist just for reference:

 

When these were Brand New the T and numbers would have a RED paint fill. Versus the Hoffman 2500 sets made which would just have the 681T and be done in black. Also if anyone can say that these were just rebadged Mizzy's they are insane. No similarities at all other then they are both blades. Because the next story was that Nike just took these 681's which were of course Mizuno's and Nike stole everyones designs. Every Nike blade I have owned and there was in fact sets from same year that had different fonts and head shapes and size. Most were not released and only made for certain players ie.... Tiger, D. D. were the first sets that I noticed were different then their retail counterpart. I in fact still have one of David Duvals Proto Nike 3 irons. I've been in search for the whole set but have had no luck as of yet in finding this set. I'm sure there were several sest made for D.D.

 

PS: sorry for getting side tracked just brought back some old memories.

[RookieBlue7]

Whom do I believe? The writer of that article, or the man swinging the clubs? Tiger says he's never used a Miura forging, nor never met him.

 

Tiger Woods' Titleist 681T's

 

Tiger's Nike Blade Variations:

(you can barely see what I'm getting at with the first pic)

 

Miura Irons:

 

Now, look at some of the others that Miura has forged for manufacturers, such as TMag with the Lehman 300 boxtoes, etc. The iron number stampings are all identical in every one I've seen, and all have Miura iron number stampings. They're characteristics of Miura's forgings(especially the #5 and #7). Tiger's don't match. So unless he did something completely different with Tiger's irons that he's yet to do with any other professional's, and Tiger is lying, and so is Tom Stites... Well, you get what I'm driving at.

 

Tim got into the history quicker than I did, lol, but we're both on the same page with where we were going, he just typed more than I did, and I used pics because I took the easy way out.

[The Dansome]

FWIW my sources have always insisted Tiger's Nike stuff is all Endo.

[RookieBlue7]

Look at any Miura iron that was manufactured for a company not named Miura golf. The iron number stampings are all the same. I gave you an example, Tom Lehman's TMag 300 Boxtoes. They have the same 5 and 7 commonalities with all Miura forgings. Why would Miura do this on every iron he ever made except for Tiger's?

 

Also, if you didn't notice, Tim is also the WITB mod for the PGA winner WITB area. He deals with this a lot, as he also sells tour issued equipment. There is a common rumor out there that Miura did Tiger's irons. Tiger says no, Tom Stites says no, Miura has never said yes, anywhere, in print.

 

The quote you've provided isn't from Miura, it's from Bill Holowaty.

 

The 681's that Miura reportedly did for Titleist were all numbered, every one, just like in Tim's picture. And they all had a red T, not black. Ask anywhere you'd like on and of the JDM golf boards, all of the JDM only guys will tell you the same thing as well.

[The Dansome]

Danno, I'm talkin early Titleist, I have no idea about his Nike shtick, so RB can pontificate about that all nite and post some more pics. LOL

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

No I gotcha there. Just putting my 2 cents in on the Nike stuff. I can't add much more to the detail you guys provide, but wow you guys make for a good read.

[RookieBlue7]

Yep, I never bought the Mizzy rebadging angle for this very reason. They just didn't look that similar. Regarding Miura, the combination of Torque's reputation(stellar++) & Miura's reputation(like most Japanese companies) for approving EVERY SINGLE WORD that appears in any article or advertisement that represents them, and I whole heartedly(obviously..lol) believe that they forged the irons in question.

 

Regarding Stites, he only speaks of a Nike/Miura relationship, I'm speaking of Titleist, so to bring him into the equation is apples & oranges & proves nothing(or disproves) at least nothing in my statements, just as the pictures prove nothing .

 

And regarding Tiger and his "word," his word isn't worth the the time that it takes to speak it. LOL. If Tiger said the sky was blue, I'd go outside to check. Every time.

 

And do you notice the one thing that you, me or anyone else has never ever seen, either in the written word, or heard in an interview, and that is a denial from Miura. Never. Miura did their job, and they did it well. That's why Titlest/Tiger chose them. End of discussion.....

 

So when I see a written statement(the Torque article/advertisement) that stands the test of time, and it represents one of THE most respected companies, and men(Miura-San) in the industry, and he or Miura never issues a comment either confirming or denying the validity of the comments coming from the "other" side, well guys, that's one of those 2 + 2= ? equations.

 

Though I will say RB, ya put some really pretty pictures up. LOL

 

And Dan, please give my best to the Mrs. She definitely has been a great addition to the forum! Ya did Great Bro! :-)

 

The Best

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

I don't dispute that Miura made 500 sets of 681's. The fact I dispute is one of those were in Tiger's bag. The Miura made Titleists are individually numbered, all of them have the T stamp in red, not black. And we're not talking about Tiger's sex life, which is all he's ever lied about (and honestly, what sane person that's cheating on their spouse wouldn't lie). When Tiger was with Titleist, the only company actively seeking and using Miura for their forgings was TMag.

 

By the way, the Titleists that Miura forged? They were produced in 2003 and were based off of Tiger's 681's.

 

I bet you also believe that Scotty Cameron milled his putter that he used to win every major (including the TeI3 Sole Stamp in his first Masters)? He didn't, the only thing Scotty had to do with it was his name being on it. At the time both of those putters were made, Robert J. Bettinardi was the man on the mill at Scotty Cameron.

[revkev]

Oh man so much here where to start -

 

I'll keep it simple - should Rory have no trouble with the equipment change because Nike is fully capable of fitting him perfectly - of course - there should be no trouble making the change. But some have because golf is a game where those five stinkin lousy inches make a huge difference - who knows what happens there. Rory seems like a guy with that part of the act together but who knows what creeps in after a few wayward shots (they happen regardless of equipment.)

 

My bet is that Rory does fine but if he doesn't the pressure will mount and fast.

 

 

Johnny Miller was an amazing iron player during that span - it's very hard to describe to anyone who didn't see it but it was remakable - yardage to the foot rather than the yard and all that - when he was on (often - almost always) he was unstopable.

 

But I always thought his issues occured because of the wood chopping, at least that's what he blamed - it set any thought of lifting weights or strength training for golf back another generation - Tiger has put an end to that myth.

 

Oh as to why - lots and lots of money - while 99 percent of us think what's the difference between 10 mil and 100 mil there is a difference to the guy who has the 10 and the guy who has the 100 - consider this year's election where the guy with 10 talks like the common man - no political bent should be construed from that comment just an observation.

[Super Tuna]

For the record, I love Miller. He's the sole reason I get to watch golf at home. My wife thinks 85% of the things he says are so perposterous or phrased in such an english language destroying manner, that she sits there and mocks it constantly. Or you know, sits there poleaxed due to a really good doozy before launching a tirade.

 

Win win frankly.

 

I get to watch golf and watch my gorgeous wife, who's really cute when she's annoyed, talk about stupid sayings at the same time.

 

I love this game.

[xxio]

Miller may be into hyperbole but I'd rather take the man for his word (he isn't Tiger:)). The MCs and less wins could be so many other things. Putting slump, bad balls (Macgregors?), nagging injuries. The man owned his swing furing his prime. He says he stopped owning it after the chopping. Of course he could be doing a Venturi and finding fault in something else.