TM TP shaft comparison

[Kanoito]

There is this guy who wants to get rid of his TM R11 and he will let me pick one of the following shafts:

 

TP Matrix HD Radix 6

TP Blur 55

TP Blur 65

TP Aldila RIP (not sure which version, but the graphics look exactly like the other 3)

 

Not sure if the TP versions are the real deal, well... I don't know the real deal either.

But could anybody provide a brief comparison? How they compare in spin, launch, feel?

 

Thanks!

[JMiller]

Let me toss up a question, just a logical one.

 

If a OEM is selling a club for $300 retail for example, and a after market brand named shafts costs $300 for the "real thing" how can they have any sort of profit margin?

 

They can't they would be negative on the product after the overhead that they have in advertisement, labor, etc. It is not a real after market shaft even at $400 and a $100 margin to play with. They buy stock shafts in bulk and get a massive discount on them per unit. All the TP is are different made for shaft options as far as i know and maybe a few custom options that don't cost an upgrade charge. You are paying $100 extra retail for a TP stamp on the head pretty lame if you ask me.

 

So the profiles won't be the same, the performance won't be the same, and honestly without hitting them each on a LM you won't know which one of your stock options is going to work best for you. I have a 9.5 lofted Adams 9032LS off the self, worked okay... then i got my Adams Fast 12 LS Tour Van head and wow picked up probably 10 yards off it, fitting and the proper head is the best thing you can do for yourself...

[GolfSpy WD]

Let me toss up a question, just a logical one.

 

If a OEM is selling a club for $300 retail for example, and a after market brand named shafts costs $300 for the "real thing" how can they have any sort of profit margin?

 

They can't they would be negative on the product after the overhead that they have in advertisement, labor, etc. It is not a real after market shaft even at $400 and a $100 margin to play with. They buy stock shafts in bulk and get a massive discount on them per unit. All the TP is are different made for shaft options as far as i know and maybe a few custom options that don't cost an upgrade charge. You are paying $100 extra retail for a TP stamp on the head pretty lame if you ask me.

 

So the profiles won't be the same, the performance won't be the same, and honestly without hitting them each on a LM you won't know which one of your stock options is going to work best for you. I have a 9.5 lofted Adams 9032LS off the self, worked okay... then i got my Adams Fast 12 LS Tour Van head and wow picked up probably 10 yards off it, fitting and the proper head is the best thing you can do for yourself...

 

This is assuming a $300 shaft actually costs something substantial to make. My impression is "real" shafts aren't that much more expensive to manufacture than made-for shafts. I say this after reading up quite a bit on Talamonti and Xcaliber shafts. I do think some shafts costs more to make than others, but what I'm guessing is $300 is a psychological price point or simply based on some supply and demand model to optimize profit. I'm sure the shaft maker doesn't pocket all of the extra $100 the club goes for, but considering how many TM clubs sell, they're probably happy with what they get. After all, Adams uses real shafts in their products and they aren't priced out of line with other clubs.

 

Everything I've read says the TP are the same as the after market, but I don't have any direct sources to confirm this.

 

Why not go to the range and just try all of them?

[Kanoito]

I understand your logic, but how does the Superfast 12 LS come with a real deal Fubuki Alpha? Isn't it a $300 shaft as well?

 

I'm no expert on the topic, that is why I ask here.

 

Of course, having a LM would be ideal, but not always possible. So just wanted a rough idea on these shafts.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Any shaft with the TP logo is the real deal.

 

It can get a little confusing, but TaylorMade's recent history is to release 3 versions of certain products:

 

Standard

Tour

and Tour TP

 

Standard generally has higher lofts, and a made for shaft.

Tour will have the "Tour" lofts, but also a made for shaft.

Tour TP has the Tour loft and "real" shafts. - The shaft is the ONLY difference between Tour and Tour TP

 

Dont' get worked up about the TaylorMade graphics. If the shaft has the TP band, it's the real deal. You're not paying any extra just to have a logo, you're paying for the real thing. Apart from branding, the custom graphics keep things looking aligned when the shaft is rotated.

 

OEMs pay literal pennies on the dollar for what the aftermarket gets 3 bills for. The number I've heard is 15% and very often less than retail for the same shaft. It's a volume game. Shaft manufacturers can offer ungodly discounts to the OEMs for the real products because of the heavy volume they do on less expensive made for variants.

 

So while logically it doesn't seem possible that you should be able to buy a $350 driver with a $300 shaft, from the perspective of what it costs the OEM, you're buying a $350 driver, with a $20 shaft.

[Super Tuna]

Indeed T.

 

Had some interesting conversations with MRC, Aldila and Fujikura guys lately based on the hub bub going on about the TP Blur's, Alpha in the Adams, S+/D+ in the new 913's. Suffice to say, a $300 shaft isn't when you're purchasing 5000 at a time.

 

 

There is this guy who wants to get rid of his TM R11 and he will let me pick one of the following shafts:

 

TP Matrix HD Radix 6

TP Blur 55

TP Blur 65

TP Aldila RIP (not sure which version, but the graphics look exactly like the other 3)

 

Not sure if the TP versions are the real deal, well... I don't know the real deal either.

But could anybody provide a brief comparison? How they compare in spin, launch, feel?

 

Thanks!

 

Radix 6 - As is

Blur 55 - Blur 005

Blur 65 - Blur TS65

RIP - As is. I can't see the mark after the 60 weight. That mark will be like the greek letter that will denote Alpha, Beta or Gamma and mark the shaft.

 

Either way, don't get any of them. None of them above are in the realm of the shafts we were talking about yesterday for you.

[Kanoito]

So while logically it doesn't seem possible that you should be able to buy a $350 driver with a $300 shaft, from the perspective of what it costs the OEM, you're buying a $350 driver, with a $20 shaft.

 

Those are the rumors I had heard from a factory owner. Thanks for confirming that.

[Matt Saternus]

Let me toss up a question, just a logical one.

 

If a OEM is selling a club for $300 retail for example, and a after market brand named shafts costs $300 for the "real thing" how can they have any sort of profit margin?

 

They can't they would be negative on the product after the overhead that they have in advertisement, labor, etc. It is not a real after market shaft even at $400 and a $100 margin to play with. They buy stock shafts in bulk and get a massive discount on them per unit. All the TP is are different made for shaft options as far as i know and maybe a few custom options that don't cost an upgrade charge. You are paying $100 extra retail for a TP stamp on the head pretty lame if you ask me.

 

 

Are you just having a laugh here, JM? You know the shaft that costs $300 at retail doesn't cost an OEM anywhere near $300. A shaft that retails for $300 might wholesale for $200-225 (maybe even less), so even Golfsmith/GG/PGA Superstore doesn't pay $300 for it. If I'm Mitsubishi/Aldila/whoever, I'm more than happy to sell TMAG/Callaway/etc my real deal $300 shaft for $50 each (probably less...a lot less) because they're buying so many.

[Tony Covey MGS]

If I'm Mitsubishi/Aldila/whoever, I'm more than happy to sell TMAG/Callaway/etc my real deal $300 shaft for $50 each (probably less...a lot less) because they're buying so many.

 

It's less than that. Less than half of that, probably.

 

 

 

 

[Kanoito]

Radix 6 - As is

Blur 55 - Blur 005

Blur 65 - Blur TS65

RIP - As is. I can't see the mark after the 60 weight. That mark will be like the greek letter that will denote Alpha, Beta or Gamma and mark the shaft.

 

Either way, don't get any of them. None of them above are in the realm of the shafts we were talking about yesterday for you.

 

Oh, I know they are not like the shafts we spoke about yesterday.

But assuming I can get it for really cheap... I thought I would just get it to fool around.

 

The sign after 60 looks like a gamma?

 

How would those 4 compare?

Super Tuna is famous on the interwebs to be a shaft master... so I'm all ears

[Super Tuna]

Famous eh?

 

Radix is a great all around shaft. Nice feel, good and solid mid launch with a spin rate shy of that. IMO it's one of the go to's when looking at after market shafts that won't break the bank (along with the VTS, Kuro Kage Black or Silver, Devotion, Motore F1/F3/Fit-On-Max, NV/NVS lines that can boost performance for a smaller buy in cost as it where). That being said, not for you.

 

The Blur 005 is a nice counter balanced shaft for those who put a medium load on the shaft and are looking for a speed increase. I use it from time to time but it never stays long. Very similair to a lighter weight AXIV Red with a smoother feel.

 

Blur TS is a slight heavier, stiffer tipped version of the 005. Higher kick point to for a lower ball flight. In practice I find it has a ball flight very similair to a Dynamic gold actually. Launches low and then the spin rate brings that ball nicely up to apex before coming down. Of you options, you'd probably get along with this one the best, as it can stand up to a harder loader.

 

RIP Gamma is an Alpha that's been altered so it can better handle the higher weighted heads, ala it's counter balanced unlike the RIP Alpha or Beta. This lets you pair it with a heavier head, say the R11, Razr Fit or G20 and still come in at a reasonable swing weight with a standard build. Otherwise, it's the same as the Alpha. IMO a good shaft suited to a mid loader who has a good swing sequence.

[BK in TEXAS]

The RIP or Matrix will sell for the most on the 'bay. Then you can get whatever shaft you want

[Kanoito]

Appreciate the input, gentlemen!

 

Now I'll have a talk with the man

[RookieBlue7]

The TP shafts are all the real deal. They get them cheap because of the volume they buy.

 

As for those, I'd personally want the RIP.

 

The Blur, both versions are mid-high launch and spin and feel really harsh.

 

The Radix is a good shaft for those that it fits, but high launch and spin at a low weight don't fit a ton of people.

 

The RIP is the lowest launching and spinning and is more sensative.

 

Also, Adams does use some proprietary shafts and not real deals. All of their Matrix shafts (and any manufacturer save TMag's TP series) that have a flex designation on it is not a real deal Matrix.

[JMiller]

Yes I know that a shaft literally doesn't cost an OEM $300 more like $25 probably, the question was more in theory... are the specs and quality as good as the aftermarket version given the mass volume... I highly doubt it...

 

OEMs are notorious for cutting corners and increasing profit margin, personally I'd be skeptical of the shafts myself but that's whatever.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Yes I know that a shaft literally doesn't cost an OEM $300 more like $25 probably, the question was more in theory... are the specs and quality as good as the aftermarket version given the mass volume... I highly doubt it...

 

OEMs are notorious for cutting corners and increasing profit margin, personally I'd be skeptical of the shafts myself but that's whatever.

 

Almost certainly the manufacturers give themselves some additional wiggle room on the specs, but I think we're past the days when quality (at least from a construction and durability perspective are an issue). Like almost everything else in the industry, it's a marketing game.

 

You've got a small percentage of guys who truly don't give a damn (don't pay attention) about the shaft.

A percentage that understands the role the shaft plays, knows the difference between made for, and aftermarket/"real"

 

And then you've got the middle...the biggest percentage. They know shaft companies by name, might even no some of the specific products. But that's it...they want the name. They still buy off the rack, and that's fine because the shaft is a MRC, Matrix, Aldila...whatever...it's good, or so they think.

 

This is also the group that hits it 40 yards shorter than they think they do, buys 9.5 degree drivers when they should be in 11.5s. From a fitting perspective, you know the rest...launch angles are too low, sometimes spin rates too.

 

The OEMs understand this mentality...and to be competitive on performance, they have to account for it. Sort of funny when you think about it...all this talk about accurately marked strong lofts on irons, and yet the industry's dirty little secret is drivers with MORE loft that marked, and shafts that play soft (really across the board...butt, middle, tip) than indicated. And for the most part it works.

 

The majority of the equipment is designed for the middle (the largest group of golfers...the more loft, more spin crowd). The made for infestation is part of that. Once we as advanced golfers (knowledge...not necessarily skill), learn this (and that custom fitting really does matter), whether the shaft is real or made for becomes inconsequential.

 

Sometimes the made for is the one that works.

[RoverRick]

Yes I know that a shaft literally doesn't cost an OEM $300 more like $25 probably, the question was more in theory... are the specs and quality as good as the aftermarket version given the mass volume... I highly doubt it...

 

OEMs are notorious for cutting corners and increasing profit margin, personally I'd be skeptical of the shafts myself but that's whatever.

 

Do you actually think that MRC, Fujikura, and all the big shaft manufacturers are not mass producing their shafts? The Talamonti, Black Ops, and RT Tech shafts, may get individual care, I know the Talamonti does, but these others are all mass produced.