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Counter-weighting


MattF
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I'm interested in experimenting with counter-weighting my drivers.

 

I hit my irons and hybrids pretty well and actually pretty straight (no fade/slice/draw or hook) but my drives are another matter. I used to hit a slice but that's now turned into a hook and from what I've read about counter-weighting, there may be a big benefit for me.

 

Can anyone explain, in layman's terms, the pro's, con's etc of doing this.

 

I've read a lot on the net from places that do it, but that is more promotional blurb than real world "this is what I did and this was the result" stuff.

 

All thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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I've been messing around with counter weighting a bit, though not in a scientific enough fashion (yet) to say anything conclusive. We do plan on putting counter weighting through an MGS Lab in the near future. But then again, if you listen to the people out front, those aren't worth s*** anyway. ;)

 

FWIW, it's a relatively inexpensive experiment, certainly cheaper than swapping shafts all over the place.

Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus

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Matt,

 

Are you going to just do putters or will you include other clubs.

 

I agree that's it's a fairly inexpensive route to take and will probably take the plunge with the drivers and play around with them a bit and see what the results are.

 

I'm hoping there have been others that have experimented with counter-weighting that will chime in.

 

MattF

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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Matt,

 

Are you going to just do putters or will you include other clubs.

 

That's funny :P

BIRDIE COACH & MENTOR, FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON
HDCP: 12.0 (GHIN: 3143312)
In my bag, March 2021
:titelist-small: TS2 Driver Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:titelist-small: TS2 Hybrids  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:bettinardi-1:  Putter

:bridgestone-small: 2020 TOUR B XS
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!)

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That's funny :P

 

I'm a bit dense BK. :D I've seen a lot on counter-weighting putters and wedges but not too much on drivers.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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The plan is to look at both putters and full-swing clubs.

 

That's one review I'm looking forward to!

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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Matt,

 

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works on your theory but I would have to suggest that you have a technical fault in your swing that is being multiplied in the driver.

 

I can say this because I have experienced exactly the same where I was hitting everything straight except my driver . First slicing and then pulling and hooking to now straight.

 

Not knowing exactly where you are with your grip, alignment etc, I would like to recommend that you either get a lesson from a pro or post a video for us to critic your driver swing. (could be risky i know biggrin.gif)

 

AJ

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Driver: Ping G25

FW: TM RBZ

Irons: Miura 57 Series w/KBS C-Taper

Wedges: Vokey SM4 52-08,56-12,60-04

Putter: Watch This Space

Ball: SRixon Z Star

Other: Tourstriker 7i

 

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I counter weighted a set of Iron shafts in an attempt to save a very badly cut set by stabilizing them. The effect of counterweight is to bring the center of balance of the entire club up to a higher point on the shaft and I was only able to do so by adding 20+ grams per shaft to the butt end. At that point I had stabilized the set enough to know that that set would never serve and I disposed of the shafts as junk and rebuilt the irons with a new set of shafts.

 

The tricky part of counter weighting is figuring out how much to add to have an effect that you can feel and see the difference of. Figuring out the amount of weight needed can be clumsy and tedious, and the results not necessarily worth the effort. I plan to never again resort to counter weights but plans can go awry at any time.

 

 

Shambles

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I don't actively counter balance my clubs, but most of my favorite shafts for driver/fairway are (even if I don't use them all the time).

 

I especially like the feature in lower weight shafts. It gives the impression of more weight under the hands which is often enough to trick those with a faster transition to keep on plane. They think the shaft is heavier then it is, because it feels so under the hands. It also works well for those players that also suddenly want to swing out of their shoes when you give them a light weight shaft. Definately a behind the ears thing but watching a guy try to MURDER the ball with a Tour AD BB in their hands is funny. It's even funnier when you had them a Attas International Series 5 and watch that swing fall right back into the standard tempo and plane for them.

 

I've had great luck with of guys. Both into PX or AWT iron shafts and then things like a Blur TS, Attas or AXIV Red in the driver.

I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider

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...

 

I especially like the feature in lower weight shafts. It gives the impression of more weight under the hands which is often enough to trick those with a faster transition to keep on plane. They think the shaft is heavier then it is, because it feels so under the hands. It also works well for those players that also suddenly want to swing out of their shoes when you give them a light weight shaft.

 

...

 

 

 

Nicklaus used to put lead tape under his grips and also added lead to the tips to make his clubs heavier but not lose the swing weight or lose the swing balance. He definitely believed in the heavier club. There were also other less watched pros who added weight for their own comfort. I myself used to like a heavier club to keep my swing calm.

 

 

Shambles

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Matt,

 

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works on your theory but I would have to suggest that you have a technical fault in your swing that is being multiplied in the driver.

 

I can say this because I have experienced exactly the same where I was hitting everything straight except my driver . First slicing and then pulling and hooking to now straight.

 

Not knowing exactly where you are with your grip, alignment etc, I would like to recommend that you either get a lesson from a pro or post a video for us to critic your driver swing. (could be risky i know biggrin.gif)

 

AJ

 

And there's the rub, it's only with the driver...but I think I know what it is and will get out to the range and try a couple of things to see if I'm right. If I am, I'll go to a pro and have him set me straight.

 

As for videoing my swing and posting it here, I hear ya and for now, it's not happening! :lol:

 

I'm going to take the plunge and get a Tour Lock Opti-Vibe and a Tour Lock pro counter weight and play around with them and see what happens. If they don't do anything for me, I'm out about $20 and can just regrip the club.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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Mr. Nicklaus used to back weight his irons from a D2 to a D0, so one of the best players to ever play this game did it with success. It is purely a feel thing for what you like, I personally like heavier heads something in the D2 to D6 range depending on the club.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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My best experiment backweighting was with 95-100 gram iron shafts. They increased swingspeed and maintained control. Don't pay attention to swingweight or it will get mental. I used the 85 gram backweighted grips that golfsmith sold. Until they wore out ( not very durable grips).

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Mr. Nicklaus used to back weight his irons from a D2 to a D0, so one of the best players to ever play this game did it with success. It is purely a feel thing for what you like, I personally like heavier heads something in the D2 to D6 range depending on the club.

 

 

My best experiment backweighting was with 95-100 gram iron shafts. They increased swingspeed and maintained control. Don't pay attention to swingweight or it will get mental. I used the 85 gram backweighted grips that golfsmith sold. Until they wore out ( not very durable grips).

 

Thinking more about it, with what you are both saying, I have FST Pro115 shafts in my irons, obviously as the name implies, they are 115g raw. I'm wondering if the 65g shafts in my drivers are contributing, along with my sucky swing, to my drives being unpredictable.

 

This new thought process has me believing that counter or back weighting may help in the long run.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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  • 1 month later...

Any word back on testing Counterweights. MattF did you get a chance to test out the Tour Lock weights?

 

Thanks for asking. The full swing testing with the counter weights is done. Now we need to figure out what all the numbers mean and write it up. ;)

Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus

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Any word back on testing Counterweights. MattF did you get a chance to test out the Tour Lock weights?

 

No mate I didn't. To be honest, I haven't even gotten them yet, I've been so busy working 2 jobs I really don't know if I'll be pursuing that idea now or not.

 

But it will be interesting to see what Matt and the MGS crew come up with, with their test.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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Thanks for asking. The full swing testing with the counter weights is done. Now we need to figure out what all the numbers mean and write it up. ;)

I' m looking forward to those results too.

 

BK

 

Oh, and I'm pretty good with statistics if ya ever want or need help crunching numbers ;)

BIRDIE COACH & MENTOR, FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON
HDCP: 12.0 (GHIN: 3143312)
In my bag, March 2021
:titelist-small: TS2 Driver Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:titelist-small: TS2 Hybrids  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:bettinardi-1:  Putter

:bridgestone-small: 2020 TOUR B XS
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!)

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Part 1

Counterweighting has helped me tremenously and has continued to help me as my swing has improved and my handicap dropped from the 15's to the 10's.

 

My first experience with CW was similar to what has been discussed here. My fitter put me in a light weight shaft (57g) and although I could hit it longer when putting a good swing on it I would get quick in my transtion and have control issues plus my contact was all over the face. After trying several CW on the launch monitor we settled on the Balance Certified BC-3 (I've never weighed this but I guessing the 3 may be for 30 grams).

 

With the BC-3 in the driver and using impact tape and a LM:

 

-My face contact got a lot tighter

-Tempo was more consistent swing to swing

-Swing path was more consistent (more from the inside and far less of the OTT)

-face angle was more consistent

-My spin was reduced and my trajectory flattened out

 

Needless to say the above is a recipe for longer distances while increasing Fwys hit.

 

To be honest I don't know why I waited so long to try CWs in my other clubs.

 

I have always struggled with really short swings, so short putts, chips, pitches with a l/4 swing etc. I like swinging a club (1/2 swing or more and longer putts)

 

One day I was in a shop and picked up both a heavy putter and a heavy wedge and noticed I could make very short swings in controlled manner with a nice consistent tempo.

 

First I bought a heavy putter. It worked well up to 15 or 20 feet but I couldn't get the long ones close and saw my 3 putts go up.

 

I went back to a normal putter but eventually bought a 100 gram and 60 gram weight (Tour Lock Pro) and experimented. The 100 gram weight gave me about the same results of the heavy putter but the 60 gram was a nice compromise and improved my putting from all distances.

 

Have to leave for work so I will post a Part 2 to share my experiences with CWs in the irons, hybrids, and fwy woods...

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