2013 TaylorMade R1 & RBZ 2 Driver

[furu]

Evening Guys

 

My TaylorMade rep is off to the States on Friday 21st Nov to see the new products, I am seeing him on the wednesday before he goes so I will ask him to take some photos and email me them, hopefully he will agree to do so and I will post them on here as soon as I can.

 

Stuart

 

I don't think pictures and info would be a good idea if being a TaylorMade rep in 2013 is in his plans

 

I was actually in Portugal last week (5-8.November) to see and try TM 2013 (plus Adidas and Ashworth). Amazing trip

[Golfer_1993]

I don't think pictures and info would be a good idea if being a TaylorMade rep in 2013 is in his plans

 

I was actually in Portugal last week (5-8.November) to see and try TM 2013 (plus Adidas and Ashworth). Amazing trip

 

Nice. Want to share some pictures with us?

[golfercraig]

Man, TM is being serious about the embargo. A rep just got fired.

[Golfer_1993]

Man, TM is being serious about the embargo. A rep just got fired.

 

Seriously? Wow, that's harsh.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Man, TM is being serious about the embargo. A rep just got fired.

 

Not surprised. TaylorMade has been increasingly aggressive over the last couple of seasons about going after sites that publish pre-embargo photos, and hunting down/punishing those responsible for leaking the photos. It has certainly helped their cause that just about every media outlet has given in to the threat (whether it's legal action, or the implicit risk of lost advertising revenue).

 

I've said all along that I understand TaylorMade's position. They have intellectual property, copyrights, and trade secrets, and it's certainly their right to protect them to the fullest extent that the law allows for. Incidentally Trade Secret is the legal strategy du jour (evolution from copyright), and while we're certain we'd be immune from any liability given that pics were available elsewhere (a few elsewheres actually) until very recently (looks like WRX did its part to get them de-googled completely), the reality is that moving forward, the guy who posts first is probably going to get dinged. And at some point, my guess is they're going to try and make an example out of someone.

 

What I find interesting is that TaylorMade is cracking down while most other companies are loosening up a bit. But again, being top dog puts TaylorMade in a different position. Whether there's a real need to be as aggressive as they are is probably a matter of opinion, but speaking as a guy sitting on one side of the argument; I certainly understand their position.

 

It's tough...especially as what was once considered smaller media (us, THP, WRX) is not only making a dent in big media's numbers, but because of what you might call a new media style of presentation, our influence is on the increase while theirs wanes. Short version, guys at big media whine to the PR guys when they get scooped by the little guys who don't feel as bound to the embargoes (again...advertising).

 

All of this said...if you worked for TaylorMade, and you did something to risk the embargo, trade secrets etc.,...man, you'd be foolish to expect a different result.

[furu]

I have tremendous respect for the work TM does. Not just making good golf clubs, but the marketing and campaigns that are simply awesome. Like the "17 campaign" with Rocketballz. When you see the whole picture and meet the people behind the products, your view on spy shots changes.

[Tony Covey MGS]

I have tremendous respect for the work TM does. Not just making good golf clubs, but the marketing and campaigns that are simply awesome. Like the "17 campaign" with Rocketballz. When you see the whole picture and meet the people behind the products, your view on spy shots changes.

 

It's no so cut and dry. As I said, and have others have suggested as well, there is evidence to suggest that TaylorMade has been involved in what you might call strategic leaks over the years. Everything we get comes to us anonymously, and so if one believes that TM sometimes plays a role (RocketBladez irons for example), it can be tricky to know when it's that and when it's an actual leak.

 

Here's my personal issue with TaylorMade's approach vs. nearly everyone else in the industry; Their expectation would seem to be that we (media outlets) should be direct partners in protecting their trade secrets, embargoes, etc., even if protecting those secrets runs contrary to what's in the best interest of our businesses. Spy Pics move the needle more than anything we can put up on this site. Preface "Spy Pic" with TaylorMade and it's doubly so. Our business model depends on traffic (not big OEM ad dollars), so playing by TaylorMade's rules hurts our bottom line.

 

We have never been the source of the leak. We've never taken and then released a pre-embargo photo. They're sent to us. We essentially report the leak (with the photographic evidence).

 

Our position (as I believe I said earlier) is that we don't feel we should be in the business of helping OEMs enforce their NDAs. If they can't keep sufficient control over their employees, business partners, etc., it shouldn't be in my job description to provide the last layer of protection. Keep your own house clean, and you won't have to worry about mine. We've explained this to most everyone we deal with, and most understand, and some even agree. When somebody gets fired over it, it's unfortunate, but it's necessary house cleaning. People whose work run's contrary to what their employers need to get done probably should be fired.

 

I do hear what you're saying about the company and the people. It's very well run, the marketing is top-notch, and the people I personally know at TaylorMade...a great bunch. I'll also add, they don't give us the runaround, or waste our time. We always know where we stand with them...good or bad, and the always deliver what they promise in a timely fashion. All of that speaks to how they got to the position they're in.

 

For us, however, it's not personal...it never has been. We have a business to run too, and sometimes what we need to get done runs contrary to what the golf companies would like us to do.

[furu]

I've always posted spy shots myself for Norwegian readers but it's not easy after I started working for the magazine. I understand why it's difficult for MGS. A colleague told me that I had to be carefull. I said that I considered pictures that were posted online (twitter, facebook, blogs, forums) as "fair game" even though they were not official. I can't do that anymore.

 

The Razr Fit Xtreme picture with driver heads on a desk was posted on my blog. I picked it up on twitter and traced it back to an employee at Callaway. Was sure that it was legit but it only took 2-3 hours before I got a phone call from Callaway! That picture was leaked by themselves and I showed them with screenshots how I traced it back to them. Like you said - keep your own house clean. I deleted the picture by the way.

 

I'll keep posting spy shots on my blog. If someone makes a good case for me to remove it I will. I took a chance on the first Nike Covert picture. Posted it very early here and another site. Turned out ok You never know. Have to take chances but if you have a good relationship with the brands they'll be ok with it. Like you I've never shot pictures myself and posted them. They always have source.

[golfercraig]

It's no so cut and dry. As I said, and have others have suggested as well, there is evidence to suggest that TaylorMade has been involved in what you might call strategic leaks over the years. Everything we get comes to us anonymously, and so if one believes that TM sometimes plays a role (RocketBladez irons for example), it can be tricky to know when it's that and when it's an actual leak.

 

Here's my personal issue with TaylorMade's approach vs. nearly everyone else in the industry; Their expectation would seem to be that we (media outlets) should be direct partners in protecting their trade secrets, embargoes, etc., even if protecting those secrets runs contrary to what's in the best interest of our businesses. Spy Pics move the needle more than anything we can put up on this site. Preface "Spy Pic" with TaylorMade and it's doubly so. Our business model depends on traffic (not big OEM ad dollars), so playing by TaylorMade's rules hurts our bottom line.

 

We have never been the source of the leak. We've never taken and then released a pre-embargo photo. They're sent to us. We essentially report the leak (with the photographic evidence).

 

Our position (as I believe I said earlier) is that we don't feel we should be in the business of helping OEMs enforce their NDAs. If they can't keep sufficient control over their employees, business partners, etc., it shouldn't be in my job description to provide the last layer of protection. Keep your own house clean, and you won't have to worry about mine. We've explained this to most everyone we deal with, and most understand, and some even agree. When somebody gets fired over it, it's unfortunate, but it's necessary house cleaning. People whose work run's contrary to what their employers need to get done probably should be fired.

 

I do hear what you're saying about the company and the people. It's very well run, the marketing is top-notch, and the people I personally know at TaylorMade...a great bunch. I'll also add, they don't give us the runaround, or waste our time. We always know where we stand with them...good or bad, and the always deliver what they promise in a timely fashion. All of that speaks to how they got to the position they're in.

 

For us, however, it's not personal...it never has been. We have a business to run too, and sometimes what we need to get done runs contrary to what the golf companies would like us to do.

 

 

I agree. My thought is this--I'll keep my mouth shut most of the time if you just ask nicely. I understand. If I signed a NDA, I'll abide. Often in the past, I'd sign an NDA, then a contact at one of the biggies (TM, Callaway, Titleist) would contact me directly, tell me they wouldn't enforce MY agreement, and would I please leak a pic or two to the blogs. Whatever. I don't get anything form any of them, so I'm not beholden to any of them. I never accept a "staff deal" from any of them, and never will. I never accept trips (except from Bridgestone to the WGC's, but that's more a personal trip with an old college golfing teammate.) I worked for 3 of them, 2 on the tour van and 1 as a retail consultant on how and what price to release products. So, when someone I know says "Hey, please don't say anything. We have a plan in place," I usually stay quiet. I have some GREAT pics of the new XHot fairways, and it's killing me to sit on them. But--my Callaway guy is scared to death for his job, and I'm not going to risk his paycheck for my own selfish reasons. It sucks.

 

BTW--the new XHot fairway woods are astronomically good. Just scary long, and SO EASY to hit off the deck.

[Stuart81]

I am a bit lost with regard to a TM staff member getting the boot after all pictures of the prototype RocketBladez irons that Sean O'Hair has in his bag were on Twitter before the official release, by a TM staff member ?

[Tony Covey MGS]

Simple version is there are things TaylorMade wants out there (Sean O'Hair's RocketBladez), and things they don't (anything surrounding the 2013 woods). I can assure you, their employees know the difference.

[igolfchip]

I put up a site to show the photos that those under NDA are prohibited to publish!

 

www.acerobserver.com

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Super Tuna]

Oh. My.

 

It's so ugly I've forgotten my vocabulary

[Kanoito]

Oh. My.

 

It's so ugly I've forgotten my vocabulary

 

Amen to that.

2013 will be Nike and Cobra's chance!

Is this the mistake TM was supposed to avoid?

[GolfSpy WD]

Amen to that.

2013 will be Nike and Cobra's chance!

Is this the mistake TM was supposed to avoid?

 

I'm going to wait to see the advertisement campaign, but yeah, initial reaction is that's a big time loser.

[Ice]

That RBZ 2 is nice. But the name lacks any sense of creativity or originality. Adding a 2 to last year's driver is a bit pathetic.

 

That R1 is the worst looking driver I've ever seen. Marketing better be good for that thing. I'm interested to see how they justify the hideous graphics on the crown.

[golfercraig]

Amen to that.

2013 will be Nike and Cobra's chance!

Is this the mistake TM was supposed to avoid?

Not Cobra. There has never been a bigger disconnect between message boards and cash registers than this Cobra/Puma thing. Cobra isn't even selling IN to shops. They cant fill pre-books. No one in the biz likes them, or their sales reps, or their CS. Not to mention the product is a complete zero sales wise. This is a chance for Nike and Callaway.

[GolfSpy WD]

Not Cobra. There has never been a bigger disconnect between message boards and cash registers than this Cobra/Puma thing. Cobra isn't even selling IN to shops. They cant fill pre-books. No one in the biz likes them, or their sales reps, or their CS. Not to mention the product is a complete zero sales wise. This is a chance for Nike and Callaway.

 

Sweet, then it'll get discounted faster

[whiskey golf]

No matter how ugly the driver looks, it will sell because it's TMAG and they'll have some random marketing for the graphics like, "The tested and proven opti-graphic design on the crown magically helps you set up down your line each time." or "This little weird design has changed the game forever." (insert pic. of Sergio Garcia holding driver)

[Super Tuna]

No matter how ugly the driver looks, it will sell because it's TMAG and they'll have some random marketing for the graphics like, "The tested and proven opti-graphic design on the crown magically helps you set up down your line each time." or "This little weird design has changed the game forever." (insert pic. of Sergio Garcia holding driver)

 

TM could sell popsciles to the Inuit so I have no doubt this will sell. People like seeing technology in action be it on a car or a golf club. They'll sell buckets.

 

Really it's only the forum population that won't be happy.

[03trdblack]

RBZ 2 = R5 XL from Dicks Sporting Goods.

 

http://www.usga.org/equipment/images/conf_clubs/20060401.JPG

[whiskey golf]

TM could sell popsciles to the Inuit so I have no doubt this will sell. People like seeing technology in action be it on a car or a golf club. They'll sell buckets.

 

Really it's only the forum population that won't be happy.

 

Or as they say in Tommy Boy, "Your dad could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman wearing white gloves."

[igolfchip]

(snip)

[furu]

Again - judging clubs based on terrible pictures. Come on guys.

 

The clubs will sell. In huge amounts too. Forum members often represent the top of the pyramid. We influence other golfers who again influence their friends and so on. But I stand by that we also represent a very very small number of golfers. The majority are influended by commercials, magazines and some of the largest websites. TM will have a succesful campaign, get a lot of attention and sell these like hot chocolate on a cold winter day in the cross-country trails in Norway Yes, getting a hot drink is popular when we sit down in the snow

 

Always use performance as your standard.

[Tony Covey MGS]

You spies are such pussies! I send you the pictures but you're too afraid to post on your site for fear of TaylorMade and your NDA's.

So I post them on a site I created and

1) you take the photos and add them to my thread

2) you lock the posting so I can't even remove them....

 

Spies? More like whores to the industry

 

NDAs aren't the issue. Nobody at MyGolfSpy has ever signed an NDA with TaylorMade (or any other OEM). When TaylorMade's legal team contacts you (and they will) they'll almost certainly make it clear that NDAs aren't the issue. The phrase you're going to hear first is "trade secrets".

 

Everybody thinks they understand how this stuff really works behind the scenes. Very few actually do.

[Tony Covey MGS]

That RBZ 2 is nice. But the name lacks any sense of creativity or originality. Adding a 2 to last year's driver is a bit pathetic.

 

That R1 is the worst looking driver I've ever seen. Marketing better be good for that thing. I'm interested to see how they justify the hideous graphics on the crown.

 

Not really fair to single out TaylorMade for adding a '2'. Titleist has incremented the 9 series based on the year. PING increments similarly. Callaway added Extreme to RAZR Fit. Nike added Covert to VRS.

 

When you have an established brand it would be silly to toss it out. 2 also implies newer (which often gets equated with better). Probably the ideal name, really.

[furu]

But is RBZ 2 the real name? Are you sure?

[Tony Covey MGS]

AFAIK that is the name. Of course, until products are officially announced everything is subject to change.

[Super Tuna]

Again - judging clubs based on terrible pictures. Come on guys.

 

The clubs will sell. In huge amounts too. Forum members often represent the top of the pyramid. We influence other golfers who again influence their friends and so on. But I stand by that we also represent a very very small number of golfers. The majority are influended by commercials, magazines and some of the largest websites. TM will have a succesful campaign, get a lot of attention and sell these like hot chocolate on a cold winter day in the cross-country trails in Norway Yes, getting a hot drink is popular when we sit down in the snow

 

Always use performance as your standard.

 

Aside from the RBZ pictures, those ones of the R1 are pretty clear. We appear to have a different definition of terrible.

 

This won't be the most diplomatic thing I've ever said but performance doesn't beat stupid looking. If I can stant to look at it, it won't perform well.

 

TM drivers perform well. I use one now. I've used one in the past. But they don't perform any better then a Ping, Callaway, Titleist, Cobra, etc. So when performance is the same the next port of call is ascetics. This one looks like crud to me.

[Tony Covey MGS]

I'm trying to reserve judgement. We've seen plenty of clubs that don't look good in pics, but look fine to good in pics.

 

I'm definitely not sold based on what I see, but I've learned to never say never.