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2013 TaylorMade R1 & RBZ 2 Driver


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What's a "good fitting" going to do for someone who over or under releases their swing? The shaft can play a part but most of that is the face angle of the club.

 

Adjustment makes that a simple fix. Go ask how many club builders are willing to try and bend a RBZ head for you. My experience so far says, not many.

 

Adjustability isn't just about screwing with things. It's about doing easy things to properly fit someone. It also has the added bonus of letting the customer see the results of the adjustment and if they're comfortable with it before they purchase it. Some thing that's fairly handy when it's a new client and you don't have the rapport built up.

 

And before the arguments come about fixing the swing, let's look at this rather plausabile scenario.

 

Client hits their irons fine (offset plus a softer tip) as well as their driver (already adjusted to close). Now they need something between their 4 iron and driver and are looking for as much distance as possible since they aren't a long ball hitter.

 

Entre RBZ adjustable fairway at $399 lets say. Problem solved.

 

Or said player then goes and takes lessons.

$250 to $300 for a properly fit fairway after the lessons

$225 for the lessons (assuming 3 lessons at around $75 a shot which is typical here).

 

Cost for RBZ: $399

Cost for fairway+lessons: $475 to $525

 

That's also assuming "they" actually learn what they need to from the lessons. Or they can just trundle along with the swing they've had for the past 20 years, still be happy and have a club that works without any extra practicing effort.

I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider

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What's a "good fitting" going to do for someone who over or under releases their swing? The shaft can play a part but most of that is the face angle of the club.

 

Adjustment makes that a simple fix. Go ask how many club builders are willing to try and bend a RBZ head for you. My experience so far says, not many.

 

Adjustability isn't just about screwing with things. It's about doing easy things to properly fit someone. It also has the added bonus of letting the customer see the results of the adjustment and if they're comfortable with it before they purchase it. Some thing that's fairly handy when it's a new client and you don't have the rapport built up.

 

And before the arguments come about fixing the swing, let's look at this rather plausabile scenario.

 

Client hits their irons fine (offset plus a softer tip) as well as their driver (already adjusted to close). Now they need something between their 4 iron and driver and are looking for as much distance as possible since they aren't a long ball hitter.

 

Entre RBZ adjustable fairway at $399 lets say. Problem solved.

 

Or said player then goes and takes lessons.

$250 to $300 for a properly fit fairway after the lessons

$225 for the lessons (assuming 3 lessons at around $75 a shot which is typical here).

 

Cost for RBZ: $399

Cost for fairway+lessons: $475 to $525

 

That's also assuming "they" actually learn what they need to from the lessons. Or they can just trundle along with the swing they've had for the past 20 years, still be happy and have a club that works without any extra practicing effort.

 

Well said

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Holy shizzzzz... Who in their right mind would pay almost $400 for a standard 3 wood? It better come with some serious shaft options, not the stock garbage in the current one.

The original TE Exotic came to retail at $399.99.... And we sold the crap out of it.. If that club said TaylorMade or Ping on the bottom, you could charge whatever you want... Like lobster at a seafood place.... Market Price.

Driver -   :srixon-small: ZX 7 9.5° Ventus VeloCore Blue S
Fairway -  Tour Edge Exotics CB2 15° Grafalloy Prolite 35  S

Fairway - Tour Edge Exotics CB2 18° Grafalloy Prolite 35  S

Hybrid - :srixon-small: ZX 18° GD Tour IZ S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: ZX7  Aerotech SteelFiber 110icw  4-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Cameron Phantom 5x/Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black/Ping Anser F/Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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It will be interesting to see how we'll these speed pockets actually perform on drivers. I can at least somewhat believe it has an effect in woods and hybrids, but I have to admit I am a little skeptical.

 

The "speed pocket" on the RBZ is where the distance comes from. Having one on the bottom but not the top delofts the face at impact, adding distance... they'll probably do the same with drivers. The thing with drivers though is they usually flex enough already with the big face, so a speed pocket might hurt distance.

What's In The Bag:

 

Adams 9064LS

Ben Hogan Edge CFT Ti

Ben Hogan Apex Edge 4-PW

TaylorMade ATV 50* 54*

Mizuno Bettinardi BC3 Tour Issue

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Oh you guys are killing me here! Welcome Taylor Made Spy - see what you've gotten yourself into?

 

I could see that marketing, shorter for more accuracy, longer for more distance - of course it's not true - one could easily hit a 44 inch or 43.5 inch driver (Luke Donald and Sergio) farther than a 46" driver if it's the proper fit. Conversely it's possible to be more accurate at 45" or ever 45.5" if that's what fits.

 

I hope that they've resolved the sound issue if it's borrowed or shared technology from the Adams purchase because their adjustable length driver is not so pleasant without the shaft extender on it. Sounds like crap.

 

One last little thing here - has anyone carefully watched and caught that the Adams hybrid commercials say that more are used than Callaway, Ping and some others, not including TMag combined?

 

These guys know how to advertise - the market what the consumer wants - it's important to keep that in mind -

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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What's a "good fitting" going to do for someone who over or under releases their swing? The shaft can play a part but most of that is the face angle of the club.

 

Adjustment makes that a simple fix. Go ask how many club builders are willing to try and bend a RBZ head for you. My experience so far says, not many.

 

Adjustability isn't just about screwing with things. It's about doing easy things to properly fit someone. It also has the added bonus of letting the customer see the results of the adjustment and if they're comfortable with it before they purchase it. Some thing that's fairly handy when it's a new client and you don't have the rapport built up.

 

And before the arguments come about fixing the swing, let's look at this rather plausabile scenario.

 

Client hits their irons fine (offset plus a softer tip) as well as their driver (already adjusted to close). Now they need something between their 4 iron and driver and are looking for as much distance as possible since they aren't a long ball hitter.

 

Entre RBZ adjustable fairway at $399 lets say. Problem solved.

 

Or said player then goes and takes lessons.

$250 to $300 for a properly fit fairway after the lessons

$225 for the lessons (assuming 3 lessons at around $75 a shot which is typical here).

 

Cost for RBZ: $399

Cost for fairway+lessons: $475 to $525

 

That's also assuming "they" actually learn what they need to from the lessons. Or they can just trundle along with the swing they've had for the past 20 years, still be happy and have a club that works without any extra practicing effort.

 

 

Getting fitted properly is fine and good if your swing is already consistent. But for me, I am in the process of working on my swing and improving my fitness level so I can crank up my drives. But my clubhead speed is not very consistent. When I have not warmed up enough or I am too tired, I clock about 102 - 105 mph. When I am optimal, I crank up about 108 - 112, and I max out about 118mph. So in this transition period, getting fitted seems a horrible idea and potentially waste of time and money.

 

I'm also not a big fan of going for lessons, as finding the right teacher who won't put you one step forward, three steps back is unbelievably hard.

 

Which is why doing my own research and adjustability is a good thing for folks like me. However, $399 for a fairway wood is a bit steep, that's a decent price for a driver or putter. But for a fairway wood which I only need for 2 holes per round - provided all the planets lines up correctly, is a bit overkill.

Now in my bag:

TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex

TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood

Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff

Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft

Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Del Mar

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The "speed pocket" on the RBZ is where the distance comes from. Having one on the bottom but not the top delofts the face at impact, adding distance... they'll probably do the same with drivers. The thing with drivers though is they usually flex enough already with the big face, so a speed pocket might hurt distance.

 

The idea that a lower lofted fairway wood (assuming equivalent shaft lengths) will always produce more distance is a myth.It likely started a few years back when strong 3 woods hit the market in abundance...and when they did, most of them had shafts that were 1/4" longer than the standard three. More length (at least at 3-wood lengths) usually will equal more distance. The idea stuck, and carried over even as OEMs started standardizing shaft length on anything they call a 3-wood.

 

Loft..as it relates to distance is absolutely less cut and dry. As with a driver, 3 wood loft (again, assuming equivalent shaft lengths) is simply one of many fitting variables. Somehow, despite that fact that most rational golfers don't believe EVERYONE gets more distance out of an 8.5° driver than a 10, or 11, or even 12, many people believe that EVERYONE gets more distance with a 13° 3 wood than a 15° 3 wood (lower loft always = more distance). It's simply not true.

 

In most respects, fitting for a fairway wood isn't much different than fitting for a driver. Optimizing distance is about optimizing launch conditions. Contrary to what some believe, TaylorMade (and some others) don't simply offer multiple lofted "3-woods" to confuse the marketplace. The multiple lofts exist to provide more fitting options. If any golf company of consequence offered a non-adjustable driver in only a single loft, they'd be laughed at. Offer multiple lofts in a 3-wood, and a portion of the public thinks you're trying to cheat or something. It doesn't make sense. Of course...if you're in the business of selling clubs to golfers who want more distance, there's no real reason to fight the misconceptions either.

 

Just like with a driver, maximizing fairway wood distance is all about achieving optimal launch conditions (launch angle,spin rates, etc.). For some guys the 13° does that. For others (many, many others), ideal 3-wood launch conditions are more often achieved with higher lofted clubs.

 

End Rant

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There were 2 clear pics of both new 2013 heads on Golfwrx around 10:00pm and then taken down within mins. I should have captured them but I was in the middle of commenting on the heads but when I went to post is said ( error nopermission) so I knew right away that my time for capturing was lost. The pics are the same pics that are blurred out here that were obviously leaked from the desk of someone from China where the heads are being made. I just did a little more searching and found the clear pics but I will not post them as to cause any trouble. The word is they are fakes from China. My question is where did the bad China foundry get the design from other then from the one that was produced. I mean all TM equipment is made in China anyway.

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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Generally an employee of a foundry takes one out for compensation, has been going on forever and not much they have done has stopped it. More info from us will most likely be coming sooner than later on this.

There were 2 clear pics of both new 2013 heads on Golfwrx around 10:00pm and then taken down within mins. I should have captured them but I was in the middle of commenting on the heads but when I went to post is said ( error nopermission) so I knew right away that my time for capturing was lost. The pics are the same pics that are blurred out here that were obviously leaked from the desk of someone from China where the heads are being made. I just did a little more searching and found the clear pics but I will not post them as to cause any trouble. The word is they are fakes from China. My question is where did the bad China foundry get the design from other then from the one that was produced. I mean all TM equipment is made in China anyway.

#TruthDigest

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I think that there is ample evidence out there to suggest that fitting is beneficial during transitional times and really for all but the rankest beginners. The sad reality is that our swings are far more consistent than we might think, from Hacker to scratch player. Our swings are consistent, they just aren't as efficient as we would like them to be.

 

A truly good fitter will want to know what a player is working on and try to up fit or fit into those desired swing changes. In actuality a truly good fitting might help make changes including help players who have trouble with properly loading the shaft and/or releasing the club.

 

I do have a question in regards to adjustable heads but I'm going elsewhere to ask it. I mean starting another thread not elsewhere outside of MGS - I know that someone here will have the answer or at least offer opinions.

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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Generally an employee of a foundry takes one out for compensation, has been going on forever and not much they have done has stopped it. More info from us will most likely be coming sooner than later on this.

 

 

What I find crazy is how when any pic that leaks early is fake or a early version and never the final product. I'm not saying it's true or false I just love when members of sites who have no connection to the brand other then their blind loyalty will say this is a FAKE from China. Then I say to myself, well where do they think these clubs are being made anyway.

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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A truly good fitter will want to know what a player is working on and try to up fit or fit into those desired swing changes. In actuality a truly good fitting might help make changes including help players who have trouble with properly loading the shaft and/or releasing the club.

 

Disagree with part of that. How am I suppose to fit for something a player can't do yet? It can't work that way. If you're making swing changes, go away and we'll fit you when you're done/feel you're ready.

 

That being said, it's not really hard to help out people with swing flaws find something that's better for their game. And, as you said, most players are far more consistently then they or many others seem to think. Helping out on release or loading aren't hard problems to help with.

I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider

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Disagree with part of that. How am I suppose to fit for something a player can't do yet? It can't work that way. If you're making swing changes, go away and we'll fit you when you're done/feel you're ready.

 

That being said, it's not really hard to help out people with swing flaws find something that's better for their game. And, as you said, most players are far more consistently then they or many others seem to think. Helping out on release or loading aren't hard problems to help with.

 

This is an interesting diversion from the actual topic. The Cobra guys talked a bit about this while I was out there last month. The reality, with the driver anyway, is that we're probably not as consistent as we think we are. When they did their in-house testing for the Amp Cell driver they found that most golfers, even single digit players, experience a meaningful variance in launch angle from one day to the next (a couple of degrees in one direction or another). As you know, that changes everything (all the other numbers are impacted). It's part of the argument they make for simple adjustment (tweak the driver for the game you have that day).

 

It's a bit of a curveball for the whole custom fitting game. With a driver, it's probably loft that gets messed with the most. Other things, tempo, transition, I do think those remain fairly consistent, and so that's what you need to fit for, but other things...dynamic loft...the way the club hits the ball at impact. Those, according to the research, change from one day to the next.

 

All of this further proves that nothing is absolute.

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Agreed that the desired loft frequently changes to get the ideal numbers. I'm onboard with Cobra and other OEM's there.

I imagine Cobra has a far larger database then I, but what I've got is that tempo, release factor and swing path all remain very consistent unless a player makes a concerted effort to change.

 

That's more my point there. If one wants to work on their release, that's fantastic. Go to it and make it so or whatever phrase you want. But, at least for myself, I simply cannot fit someone into something when they tell me that after purchasing this, they're doing to do major work on their release or tempo.

I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider

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If you google "taylormade r1 driver" you can see the driver. Or a prototype of it. Another site i frequent wont let people see it.

 

Click on the image search, its one of the first few images.

 

looks like I'm not the only one opening an account on MGS after what happened last night. I got both of them on my computer actually, saving them before they were taken down for the SECOND time. If you want to see them, I can post them.

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looks like I'm not the only one opening an account on MGS after what happened last night. I got both of them on my computer actually, saving them before they were taken down for the SECOND time. If you want to see them, I can post them.

 

Please don't post any images that are watermarked with another sites logo. We understand the demand, but we don't want to create any copyright issues.

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