He did not make a par, he was in the hazard!

[RoverRick]

Today, I played with the 9 am group. These guys play every morning around 9 and all you have to do is be there to sign up. I have played with them some on the weekends but not during the week. I play later in the day. I used to play with them during the week regularly but have not in the past year because ... well, I am not entirely welcomed by some members that play during the week. I used to be a very streaky. Playing well one time and poorly the next and after shooting a 90+ on 18 holes last year, I was put on a different team, the same day, and shot a 37 on the next 9. One team member acted like I did it on purpose, nevermind that it cost me as much money as him. So, I have not played with them for the past year. But with 80* temperature in November and having the time off I went yesterday and today.

 

The only problem, for them, is that last year I was a 13 handicap and this year I am a 3 and they continue to treat me like a 13. Because of that I kicked their butts the past two days. they really stacked the deck on us today to make up for their $22 loss of yesterday, and emposed a max that we could lose thinking they would get their money back from yesterday. But they lost the max to us today and they were very unhappy.

 

So we were the last group and there were 5 in each group. The others were on the patio watching us play 18. 18 is a very hard hole with an island green and a 195 yards forced carry on the drive. However, because of the low water level the island is not surrounded by water but it is still a hazard with weeds and rocks and mud and water puddles.

 

I hit my approach shot into the hazard. But I could see my ball sitting on some weeds and it was in good shape. So I drove around and came at the ball from the other side, careful to leave my putter out of the way but on the green because I did not want to be accused of grounding my club in the hazard by laying my putter down. When I got to the area of my ball, I saw one sitting there, but it was covered on top by a clump of mud half the size of the ball. You could not see the brand or number or any marking on top. So I looked around and that had to be my ball, but with them watching, if it turned out to not be my ball I knew they would cry foul. I remembered Rule 12-2 that you could pick up your ball at anytime to identify it but could not improve the lie. I had a perfect lie anyway so I placed the wedge head on my shoe, to ensure I did not ground it, and picked up the ball, and saw that it was in fact mine, and replaced it. Then put it on the green. Marked it and cleaned the ball, then made the putt for a par. All while I knew these guys were watching me. They had two 5's and three 6's on that hole and we had a 4 and four 6's. So when the scoring was finished and they had lost the max. They asked who made the 4. I said I did.

 

They were hot, and said I could not have made a 4 because I went in the hazard. They accused me of grounding my club, and improving my lie, but when I said all I did was lift it to make sure it was mine and then replaced it, they started screaming that I cheated and demanded that they won that hole and so on. Please keep in mind, it made no difference. They set the max at $10 and they would have lost $14. Without this hole they still would have lost $12.

 

But a heated arguement ensued and they said that you could hit every ball out of the hazard and none of them counted if it were not yours. This, I have since learned, was the rule before 2008. However, under the current rules, it is the players responsibility to ensure they hit the right ball. I can lift my ball at anytime to identify my ball. And if I hit the wrong ball regardless of the circumstances it is a two stroke penalty. One of their teammates eventually stepped in and said I was right but I was shocked that one of the guys saying I could hit it first was a former rules official. Now that I know it has changed I understand how he could be so wrong.

 

It was funny that earlier in the day I saw two rules being broken and noone cared about them. Two guys hit the wrong ball in the fairway, and just laughed about it and continued play, it should have been two 2 stroke penalties. Also, one guy hit his playing partner's cart, another 2 stroke penalty. And no one cared or took a penalty, but if you ground you club than it is the end of the world. I asked about them but was told, we do that all the time, it is no big deal.

[GolfSpy WD]

Today, I played with the 9 am group. These guys play every morning around 9 and all you have to do is be there to sign up. I have played with them some on the weekends but not during the week. I play later in the day. I used to play with them during the week regularly but have not in the past year because ... well, I am not entirely welcomed by some members that play during the week. I used to be a very streaky. Playing well one time and poorly the next and after shooting a 90+ on 18 holes last year, I was put on a different team, the same day, and shot a 37 on the next 9. One team member acted like I did it on purpose, nevermind that it cost me as much money as him. So, I have not played with them for the past year. But with 80* temperature in November and having the time off I went yesterday and today.

 

The only problem, for them, is that last year I was a 13 handicap and this year I am a 3 and they continue to treat me like a 13. Because of that I kicked their butts the past two days. they really stacked the deck on us today to make up for their $22 loss of yesterday, and emposed a max that we could lose thinking they would get their money back from yesterday. But they lost the max to us today and they were very unhappy.

 

So we were the last group and there were 5 in each group. The others were on the patio watching us play 18. 18 is a very hard hole with an island green and a 195 yards forced carry on the drive. However, because of the low water level the island is not surrounded by water but it is still a hazard with weeds and rocks and mud and water puddles.

 

I hit my approach shot into the hazard. But I could see my ball sitting on some weeds and it was in good shape. So I drove around and came at the ball from the other side, careful to leave my putter out of the way but on the green because I did not want to be accused of grounding my club in the hazard by laying my putter down. When I got to the area of my ball, I saw one sitting there, but it was covered on top by a clump of mud half the size of the ball. You could not see the brand or number or any marking on top. So I looked around and that had to be my ball, but with them watching, if it turned out to not be my ball I knew they would cry foul. I remembered Rule 12-2 that you could pick up your ball at anytime to identify it but could not improve the lie. I had a perfect lie anyway so I placed the wedge head on my shoe, to ensure I did not ground it, and picked up the ball, and saw that it was in fact mine, and replaced it. Then put it on the green. Marked it and cleaned the ball, then made the putt for a par. All while I knew these guys were watching me. They had two 5's and three 6's on that hole and we had a 4 and four 6's. So when the scoring was finished and they had lost the max. They asked who made the 4. I said I did.

 

They were hot, and said I could not have made a 4 because I went in the hazard. They accused me of grounding my club, and improving my lie, but when I said all I did was lift it to make sure it was mine and then replaced it, they started screaming that I cheated and demanded that they won that hole and so on. Please keep in mind, it made no difference. They set the max at $10 and they would have lost $14. Without this hole they still would have lost $12.

 

But a heated arguement ensued and they said that you could hit every ball out of the hazard and none of them counted if it were not yours. This, I have since learned, was the rule before 2008. However, under the current rules, it is the players responsibility to ensure they hit the right ball. I can lift my ball at anytime to identify my ball. And if I hit the wrong ball regardless of the circumstances it is a two stroke penalty. One of their teammates eventually stepped in and said I was right but I was shocked that one of the guys saying I could hit it first was a former rules official. Now that I know it has changed I understand how he could be so wrong.

 

It was funny that earlier in the day I saw two rules being broken and noone cared about them. Two guys hit the wrong ball in the fairway, and just laughed about it and continued play, it should have been two 2 stroke penalties. Also, one guy hit his playing partner's cart, another 2 stroke penalty. And no one cared or took a penalty, but if you ground you club than it is the end of the world. I asked about them but was told, we do that all the time, it is no big deal.

 

Sounds like you had a great time...

 

I'm kinda glad I never play for money

[RoverRick]

Sounds like you had a great time...

 

I'm kinda glad I never play for money

 

 

I played once for $150 for 9 holes, and let me tell you, it slows pace of play and it makes you very conscious of the rules. I will admit that it was not until after we had teed off that I was told the true amount we were playing for. I was not happy about it either. It took a bunch of the joy out of those 9 holes. But it was certainly more joyous than the other guys. They have not offered to try again. My favorite quote came from that round. "You sons of b!7c4es are a lot better than I thought you were before I made this bet."

 

That day, I played 54 holes of golf, and the winning pots totaled first 18 = $120 (6 players 1 winner.) me, Second 18 = 4 players = 2 winners $100 each, and final 9 was 4 players, two winners $150 each. So I was playing with house money but still, I usually play for a total loss of $28. And I never lose that much. I rarely lose more than $10.

[GolfSpy Tim]

bugs me to no end when guys wanna call you out on a rule when they themselves have been choosing which rules to follow for the entire round

[Shambles]

It's very hard to argue with such a group. It's usually better to decline their company and be elsewhere.

 

 

Shambles

[RoverRick]

It's very hard to argue with such a group. It's usually better to decline their company and be elsewhere.

 

 

Shambles

 

 

Yeah, that is why I have not played with them for the past year. They lose $2 and act like it is the end of the world. The iPhone has made ending the arguement pretty quickly. I type in "Identiying ball in hazard" and pushed search and was able to say that rule 15-2 allows me to lift the ball at any time to identify it as long as I recreate the lie. End of arguement.

 

It was especially nice because the guy who was the rules official is a member of Mensa and thinks he is always right. (OK, I admit that I have that problem also as far as thinking I am always right. ) So he was saying, that can't be true. That was almost as great as taking his money. There are some really nice guys that play in that group, and everyone that was on my team were really nice guys. But there are two total jerks that usually team up together. They are pretty good golfers but often ruin the chemistry of their team with their attitudes and the other guys do not play well with them. So while they sometimes win, they typically lose.

 

When playing a team event like that it is so important to keep the team up beat and light hearted. If too much pressure gets heaped on than the scores start to rise. It drives me crazy when someone says, make that putt because we need it. It is not like the person putting is going to miss intentionally. So why add to the pressure. I never ask what someone is putting for unless I am trying to mess with them. Then I tell them "The hopes and dreams of the free world are resting on you making this putt, so no pressure."

[jayhawker]

The only reason I would ever go back would be to beat all them again and watch them be mad. Those people are what is wrong with golf and wrong with the world. Can't even have a legitimate and calm discussion about what happened. Sounds to me they're just bitter because they bad at golf and lost.

[RoverRick]

The only reason I would ever go back would be to beat all them again and watch them be mad. Those people are what is wrong with golf and wrong with the world. Can't even have a legitimate and calm discussion about what happened. Sounds to me they're just bitter because they bad at golf and lost.

 

That is the reason I enjoy playing with them. They are sore losers and I love to beat them. Since I know the two guys who do not like me much do not want me on their team then I am vertually assured the satisfaction of winning.

[BIG STU]

Sounds like these grumpy old farts that play in the golf leagues around here.Breaking a rule is ok around here if they are the ones doing it. Everyone of these golf leagues around here have their own rules contrary to the rules of golf. I don't make it a habit to play with people like that.

[apprenti23]

It's actually no longer against the rules if you bring another club into the hazard with you and lay it down- you have to look at rules now while thinking of a players intent- if you're bringing another club with you into the hazard to speed up play than there is nothing wrong with it.

[revkev]

Sounds like these grumpy old farts that play in the golf leagues around here.Breaking a rule is ok around here if they are the ones doing it. Everyone of these golf leagues around here have their own rules contrary to the rules of golf. I don't make it a habit to play with people like that.

 

I realize that this was a while ago but it was a while ago as in the day my Mom died. I'm only really just coming out of the funk created by that, having to be both principal and pastor at our school and gaining custody of my 3 year old grandson. I'm almost caught uup on my reading.

 

We occasionally run into that in our league but it's a well policed group. We've expelled a couple of people for either habitually not playing by the rules or taking upon themselves the role of rules cop when they aren't. I've actually become my league's rules guy. I took on the job because I was sick of people pontificating about stuff that were clueless about. I've had a guy try and assess a penalty on me for hitting pitch shots onto the next tee while waiting for others to play out the hole and also a playing partner for putting on the last green played when she wasn't holding up play. I've also had a guy try to argue that his ball was inbounds when he hit it onto the course next door to the one that we play on (the pro loved that one).

 

 

The beauty of it is that if you have a smart phone you have a rule book. There really shouldn't be any issue anymore. But people being people....

[gaussman1]

Hi Rover,

 

actually had a question about this scenario if you are still paying attention to it, as have been a part of several groups where this kind of thing has happened. We have lots of muddy banks in our hazards where if the water is down you could still play the ball in theory and we have a lot of long grass areas where the ball can go way down. What happens is we have a lot of guys wanting to identify their balls in these areas so we the guys I play with have gotten to know this rule pretty well.

 

My question is this- if you did not notify your playing partner or a marker with the group that you were in fact going to pick up your ball to identify it then is that not a penalty? I think without notification then it is a penalty in both stroke or match play, whether you ID it and replace it properly or not.

 

I ask this question out of curiosity as to whether or not I properly understood what took place in your circumstance. I just read the story for the first time today so got to wondering.

 

Anyway Happy Trails and I hope you have found a better group to play with.

 

 

 

 

 

Today, I played with the 9 am group. These guys play every morning around 9 and all you have to do is be there to sign up. I have played with them some on the weekends but not during the week. I play later in the day. I used to play with them during the week regularly but have not in the past year because ... well, I am not entirely welcomed by some members that play during the week. I used to be a very streaky. Playing well one time and poorly the next and after shooting a 90+ on 18 holes last year, I was put on a different team, the same day, and shot a 37 on the next 9. One team member acted like I did it on purpose, nevermind that it cost me as much money as him. So, I have not played with them for the past year. But with 80* temperature in November and having the time off I went yesterday and today.

 

The only problem, for them, is that last year I was a 13 handicap and this year I am a 3 and they continue to treat me like a 13. Because of that I kicked their butts the past two days. they really stacked the deck on us today to make up for their $22 loss of yesterday, and emposed a max that we could lose thinking they would get their money back from yesterday. But they lost the max to us today and they were very unhappy.

 

So we were the last group and there were 5 in each group. The others were on the patio watching us play 18. 18 is a very hard hole with an island green and a 195 yards forced carry on the drive. However, because of the low water level the island is not surrounded by water but it is still a hazard with weeds and rocks and mud and water puddles.

 

I hit my approach shot into the hazard. But I could see my ball sitting on some weeds and it was in good shape. So I drove around and came at the ball from the other side, careful to leave my putter out of the way but on the green because I did not want to be accused of grounding my club in the hazard by laying my putter down. When I got to the area of my ball, I saw one sitting there, but it was covered on top by a clump of mud half the size of the ball. You could not see the brand or number or any marking on top. So I looked around and that had to be my ball, but with them watching, if it turned out to not be my ball I knew they would cry foul. I remembered Rule 12-2 that you could pick up your ball at anytime to identify it but could not improve the lie. I had a perfect lie anyway so I placed the wedge head on my shoe, to ensure I did not ground it, and picked up the ball, and saw that it was in fact mine, and replaced it. Then put it on the green. Marked it and cleaned the ball, then made the putt for a par. All while I knew these guys were watching me. They had two 5's and three 6's on that hole and we had a 4 and four 6's. So when the scoring was finished and they had lost the max. They asked who made the 4. I said I did.

 

They were hot, and said I could not have made a 4 because I went in the hazard. They accused me of grounding my club, and improving my lie, but when I said all I did was lift it to make sure it was mine and then replaced it, they started screaming that I cheated and demanded that they won that hole and so on. Please keep in mind, it made no difference. They set the max at $10 and they would have lost $14. Without this hole they still would have lost $12.

 

But a heated arguement ensued and they said that you could hit every ball out of the hazard and none of them counted if it were not yours. This, I have since learned, was the rule before 2008. However, under the current rules, it is the players responsibility to ensure they hit the right ball. I can lift my ball at anytime to identify my ball. And if I hit the wrong ball regardless of the circumstances it is a two stroke penalty. One of their teammates eventually stepped in and said I was right but I was shocked that one of the guys saying I could hit it first was a former rules official. Now that I know it has changed I understand how he could be so wrong.

 

It was funny that earlier in the day I saw two rules being broken and noone cared about them. Two guys hit the wrong ball in the fairway, and just laughed about it and continued play, it should have been two 2 stroke penalties. Also, one guy hit his playing partner's cart, another 2 stroke penalty. And no one cared or took a penalty, but if you ground you club than it is the end of the world. I asked about them but was told, we do that all the time, it is no big deal.

[RoverRick]

Hi Rover,

 

actually had a question about this scenario if you are still paying attention to it, as have been a part of several groups where this kind of thing has happened. We have lots of muddy banks in our hazards where if the water is down you could still play the ball in theory and we have a lot of long grass areas where the ball can go way down. What happens is we have a lot of guys wanting to identify their balls in these areas so we the guys I play with have gotten to know this rule pretty well.

 

My question is this- if you did not notify your playing partner or a marker with the group that you were in fact going to pick up your ball to identify it then is that not a penalty? I think without notification then it is a penalty in both stroke or match play, whether you ID it and replace it properly or not.

 

I ask this question out of curiosity as to whether or not I properly understood what took place in your circumstance. I just read the story for the first time today so got to wondering.

 

Anyway Happy Trails and I hope you have found a better group to play with.

 

 

The guys I was with were my teammates and the guys crying foul were 130 yards away on the porch of the club. I said something to my fellow competitors but they were not going to climb down the rocks to make sure I did it properly. But the funny thing about this was it did not matter. They had already lost the maximum amount and losing one more hole had really no effect on them. They were just sour about it.