Mizuno numbering

[RoverRick]

Wd has agreed to provide the proper adult supervision required to get the spreadsheet posted. Thanks by the way.

 

While working on this I found it interesting how Mizuno has evolved the technology over the years.

 

What started out as basically one iron, became 2 by changing the offset and sole grinds. And then by moving weight around the created the cut muscle, then 3D muscle and now claim a 4D muscle. And this is just the blade. In the Player's Cavity Back style they have added two or three different technologies to make the current irons, all the while keeping them looking very traditional.

[GolfSpy WD]

 

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Year	Muscle	Cut Muscle	Dual	Players	Cut Muscle style="mso-spacerun:yes">	Ti Muscle	Pocket	Hollow Body
	Blade	Blade	Blade	Cavity	Cavity	Cavity	Cavity	Cavity
1988	MP7
1990	MP9 & MP11
1992	MP14 & MP29
1996	"			MP19
2000	MP33 & MP29			"
2001	"			"
2002	"			"
2003	"			MP30
2004	MP33 & MP37			"
2005	"			"
2006	"	MP32		-->	MP60
2007	"	"			"
2008	MP67 (Cut)	"			MP57			MP FLI HI
2009	"	-->	MP62		"		MP52	"
2010	MP68 (3D)		"		-->	MP58	"	MP FLI HI DLR
2011	"		"			"	"	"
2012	MP69 (4D)		MP63			MP59	MP53	"
2013	"		MP64			"	-->	MP H4

 

 

[GolfSpy WD]

That was actually a LOT easier than I thought it would be:

 

1. Open spreadsheet in excel

2. Click File->Save as Webpage

3. In MGS Form, add reply, selecting "Use full editor"

4. Copy and paste the contents of the .htm file you got from Excel

5. Click "Click to configure post options"

6. Turn on HTML

7. Post

8. Profit

[RoverRick]

Thanks WD.

[RoverRick]

That was actually a LOT easier than I though it would be:

 

1. Open spreadsheet in excel

2. Click File->Save as Webpage

3. In MGS Form, add reply, selecting "Use full editor"

4. Copy and paste the contents of the .htm file you got from Excel

5. Click "Click to configure post options"

6. Turn on HTML

7. Post

8. Profit

 

I did not know to do step 5 and 6. It does not work without those.

[GolfSpy WD]

Dude, first le me say that you are one of a handful of guys that when I'm healthy, I would fly over to see & play with. Rick, is another.

 

That being said, and I was gonna post this off of Rick's comment that you replied to, then I saw your responce. LOL

 

Please take this as us sitting around havin beers & you two are discussing this, and me being the fairly shallow thinker when it comes to what knowledge that I want to pile in my extremely limited memory bank, especially pertaining to the numerical & genetic lineage of a frickin iron series(And an iron series & company that I absolutely love ), and I'm sittin there dyin & basically bein an *sshole ..LOL

 

Conversions? Spread sheets? Tables? HTML? Bros, these are frickin golf clubs.. LMAO.. Now I understand that one of you is an engineer & the other an IT whiz, but again, they're frickin golf clubs!!..LMAO

 

 

I mean, I've got a list of ALL of the Mizzy iron releases, but like I said, there's only a little more than a handful that are irons that really stand out, and probably 3-4 that I would say are "iconic."

 

Again, I mean no malice, but Conversions? Spread sheets? Tables? HTML? And WD, if this is going to affect you posting my pictures, I didn't mean a thing and I'll erase the whole post and say "thanks for doin this guys, this is really gonna be helpful when I discuss Mizzy with the guys."

 

Just say the word Bro

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

The problem with us engineers (regardless of type), is we like numbers and charts. They make sense and are fun to use to explain things. Remember those nerdy guys in high school? Yeah, we haven't changed, lol.

[revkev]

I'll tell you what - I love that spreadsheet - only an engineer right - my Dad, his Dad, my Mom's Dad, my son and then it skips me - don't know whether to thank God or curse Him.

 

Seriously the spreadsheet is awesome.

[RoverRick]

I hope that it is as obvious to you all as it is to me that the MP62 and subsequent MP63 and 64 is a variation of the MP32 more than the MP60. Likewise, the MP52 and MP53 are spawned from the MP30 then 60 then 57.

[RoverRick]

The other problem with this is that it doesn't accurately or comprhensively account for the beginning of the TP-9 Originals introduction which I replaced my Staff Fg 17s with in '86. I believe that the 9Originals were introduced in '85, though it mighta at the end of the year so they were for '86 season.

 

HaHa, that was a long time ago ;-)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

On the contrary, Richard, the Mizzy Timeline that Hckymeyer posted does "accurately and comprehensively account for the beginning of the TP9 originals." My chart that I made does not reference the original TP line at all. The reason I did not is because the purpose of the chart is to juxtapose the MP line and it gives the years simply as a reference point. Which answers Revkev original question.

 

As far as the MP9 being listed as the first, well, I am not so sure, other than knowing that the MP9 and MS9 were the same specs. The MP14 and MP29 are also not listed on the Mizzy Timeline chart. I found else where that the MP14 and MP29 were given more modern lofts and became the MP33 and the MP37, respectively.

 

Also, what is actually wrong with this chart that WD so graciously posted for me, is that the one I sent him to post was the wrong one. This was an earlier version. And the newer one had minor things like arrows, and the first dates were different, and there was a slight difference the the column labels. Since I deemed these initially as trivial differences and did not see my mistake until after he had posted it, I did not want to trouble him to change it. It sill accomplishes it desired task. It does, in fact, list the differences between the different MP irons.

[GolfSpy WD]

Cool stuff Richard, but just to quickly correct one point. Rick did all the work putting that chart together, I was merely the middle man, so he deserves all the credit. Also, I think I posted an earlier version of his by accident and he's made some corrections.

 

Could you convert your list into a color coded excel spreadsheet please?

[revkev]

Yeah I think Richard should convert his list too.

 

Wow, what I thought was a simple question is not so simple, is it? I guess I shouldn't feel so bad about being confused by all of this. However I just recently figured out that lots of companies number their club releases based on the year of their release.

 

Okay so I'm a little slow.

[GolfSpy WD]

Bro, were you serious?

 

Haha, no, I wasn't serious at all. The winking face is my sign of "don't read what I just wrote seriously"

[BK in TEXAS]

Wow. Extremely confusing! All I really know is I'm liking the MP59's I got from Ice last month :D

[RoverRick]

As I said, I replaced my Staff 17s in 1986 with the 9 originals. The whole MP-line was based offa the TP line. If ya google the MP-9 & go to the PGA site, it'll say 1990 introduction. I didn't originally do that, my buddy Dave told me about it. I went offa yhe fact that I was playin MP-9s in '91. There also was the 10s & the 11s.

 

I wasn't saying that any of you were wrong, because I've seen that chart a few years ago & I couldn't understand the dates in the more recent one, cuz the original chart had the complete lineage at least goin back to the early 80s.

 

I look at it as doin a family tree and only goin back as far as your great grand father. By the way, the Originals were the closest spec-wise to the TN-87s in that they had virtually no offset & that's why there weren't a lot of em out there cuz they went with the standard retail TP-9s, which were more player friendlier.

 

Actually, it was Seve who started b*tchin about the 9s that lead to Nakajima comin up with the 87s. Just some stuff ya won't find in he charts.

 

Have a good one. I. Headin over to putt some more :-)

 

My Best

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

Mizuno has been making irons since the 1930's. this discussion is about irons with the MP nomenclature. Basically, as you said I stopped at the grandfather because the great grandfather has a different name which falls out side the scope of that chart.

[Blade]

Good Gravy RK! Look what you started!!!

[Blade]

That'll happen when ya put a bunch of above average intellect, opinionated, driven Type-As on the same computer screen

 

However, one thing that you'll find here is no one ever gets personal, and when all is said and done, we all go find our balls, hit 'em and keep playin.

 

That's what seperates these guys & this site

 

 

We're really glad that ya joined us. You're a class act

 

 

I had to go to the bathroom. Now I'm layin down again.

 

See ya in a bit

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

Thanks Richard! It's been good getting to know you and everyone else. It's a good place to hang out for sure. I don't usually spend as much time on the computer. But it's made for some good laughs while I was laid up. . Ttyl

[revkev]

Loved the story Richard!

 

I actually remember that carbon driver - my uncle, who was a good player, had one - can't remember what it cost but at the time I recall that it seemed impossibly expensive.

 

Ultimately I'd rather know more than not enough and I still wish I had gotten something from the MP line. Oh well I do have the Fli-hi.

[RoverRick]

That'll happen when ya put a bunch of above average intellect, opinionated, driven Type-As on the same computer screen

 

However, one thing that you'll find here is no one ever gets personal, and when all is said and done, we all go find our balls, hit 'em and keep playin.

 

That's what seperates these guys & this site

 

 

We're really glad that ya joined us. You're a class act

 

 

I had to go to the bathroom. Now I'm layin down again.

 

See ya in a bit

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

My browser just shut down this site because it has decided it is an attack site. I guess it does not like mine and Richard's arguement.

[RoverRick]

I took my nap. If I sleep any longer, I'll wake up abiut 2am, and be up the rest of the night.

 

Question, it's OT, though it seems quite a few guys are on here who know computers, but I hit somethin and all those tabs that are usually on the bottom are now on the sides. Never happened before.

 

I don't like 'em there, and want 'em back on the bottom.

 

What the hell do I do?

 

Thanx and sorry for goin OT.

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

What is so hilarious is for two days we have been arguing in your opinion in order for us to understand that the MP53 is a pocket cavity back iron and a MP33 a muscle back iron we first need to pay homage to the history of the TP irons and Sir Nick Faldo, and now you are concerned about going OT.

 

OK. If the crap that was at the bottom is now at the side, move the arrow with the mouse to bar, not a tab but below the tabs, and hold the left button down and then move the mouse down to the bottom.

[RoverRick]

This has been sort of funny. Much like if the question here was, "What is the difference in the Ford Escape, Econoline, Excursion, Expedition, Explorer and Explorer EXT?"

 

And Richard, who had driven a Ford forever, rightfully points out most of these were variations of the Bronco, which really was a nice vehicle that was based off of the Ford F Series pickup, and we need to have the history of the F series on our chart so that we can see that Ford came out with the Ranger Pickup, which was an original trim line but now it is a completely new size of truck and the Bronco II was based on that. And this is how we came up with these Ford E vehicles.

 

Actually, I think the history should be in this thread, however, just as the history of Ford Motor Company does not start with the Bronco, Mizuno's history does not start in 1987. Since the same manufacturing processes were used to make the E vehicles as were used to make the Model T, so where do you begin the history lesson.

 

And just as Ford did not create the SUB, the Chevrolet Suburban is the oldest SUV and the oldest vehicle name on the market, Mizuno did not create the forged iron but unlike many manufacturers their part number are not sequential and difficult to understand. Like the Ford E vehicles.

[Blade]

That was a good analogy actually.

[RoverRick]

Ok, I happened to catch this on the way across the street to church, so I told Maddie & her family to go in & I'd be right there.

 

Bro, ya can't let it go? LMAO

 

I did everything but roll over & show my belly, and I'll do that now. I was in a drug induced state with an idiot friend goading me on to post that list. I shouldn't have posted it.lol.

 

But, he was sorta right, though there is no right or wrong here.

 

What is here is a complete history, for people to pick and choose what they would like to take away.

 

Like I said, it depends on who you're talkin to. Some "nueve Mizzy" player who's on his first or second set of irons, and he's gonna tell me all that I never wanted to know about Mizzy or the MP line, or someone like myself, who's played 'em awhile, forgotten more than most will ever know, and forgotten it while never talkin about it or pontificating to people about it.

 

This is only the first time my list has seen the light of day(I don't count the other guy postin it). How many guys would do three weeks worth of research, then verify it with the corporation, then never post it or talk about it? I'm guessin here, but it's safe to say, not many.

 

 

However, I didn't & don't need to prove my knowledge base. I did it for me. If someone asks, sure I'll discuss it. However, most American players had never really heard of Mizuno prior to the early 80s, or they couldn't intelligently talk about them or their clubs to you. But "modern Mizzy" is whatever someone wants it to be.

 

I mean my father plays the 800s, and he could no more tell you what preceded them than my mom could. And most guys are like him.

 

But as I've often said, it really isn't about right or wrong, it's about choices, and without overloading, the more relevent information that someone has, the more intelegently they can discuss a given subject. It's about pickin & choosin, and Lord knows, we gave enough information to choos from

 

BTW, you're right, you win & I'm gonna pound the sh*t outa Dave when I see him. See, if Ida listened to Maddie, I'da never posted that. She said, "don't do anything under the influence of your meds cuz you're more emotional." No, I gotta listen to my idiot buddy who's three times divorced, and claims with a straight face that none of them were his falt. lol

 

In the back. Gotta go up with Maddie & her family.

 

Have a good one

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

The funniest thing is you sent me an email telling my your thoughts. Because WD posted the chart for me I could not change it myself, and if I could have I might have done so that night and this would have been over. But I could not. I then went to play golf and not once but twice you had posted about this not including the history.

 

At that point, I was not going to change it no mater what. And it really has been sort of fun. I think a lot of people have enjoyed our exchange.

 

Tell Saint Maddie hello for me. I am off to the course to drink free beer. I hope.

[Blade]

Can someone please translate the Mizuno MP line for me going back to the days when they started the numbering system.

 

Another words the MP 53's are player's muscle backs, the MP 68's are blades or whatever. I'd love to know what the MP 32 is vs. the MP 53 and to be able to have an intelligent converstation about it.

 

Thanks in advance.

And to think...these two simple paragraphs started it all! Too funny! You guys keep it entertaining I gotta say! Of course my head is still spinning. But I think I have it now. The mp59 is the first club Mizuno ever made. Er no, maybe not. Dang it! Now I gotta start all over at the beginning again!

There will be a final exam tomorrow that counts for 50% of your grade. Be prepared! I have to go study now.

[revkev]

I was unaware of the fact that both Seve and Sir Nick played Mizunos although I do seem to remember Nick with the logo on the bag. That would make sense - the best players in the world playing them would instantly cause Mizuno to receive the staff legacy. At the time I was a Ping Eye 2 guy and didn't think about anything else. I recall that Tom Kite played Staffs as did lots of other players but didn't think so much about the Euros because we only saw them when they were playing here or in the Open.

 

Okay back to Mizuno because now I have another question that could keep this thread going for a bit.

 

I did in fact hit the 53's today - not with Project x but with stock Mizzie graphite never the less. They were nice but with that pocket cavity they seem to have more game improvement to them than my JPX 825 pros which are simple cavity backs - right? The JPX's that I have in the 5 and 6 iron are pocket cavity back forged with a thicker top line that anything in the MP line accept the MP 4's. Taking a second look at those I was very unimpressed - they look as if they can't make up their mind as to what they are supposed to be quite frankly.

 

What I do wish is that I had asked this question prior to testing Mizzie's out - I mistakenly tried the 64's because I thought they were the 53's. I just don't see that they would perform that differently from the JPX 825 pros - in fact I almost think I could get a bet more out the pros.

 

Now that I'm looking at them through better informed eyes I'm thinking that the 59's would be the right clubs for me - those or the Pros that I got.

 

So the question here is what's the different between the JPX pros and the 53's? Not in terms of etymology but in terms of playability.

[revkev]

Richard - I'm assuming you meant the 825 and the 825 pros - clearly the plain 825's have a thicker top line and sole than the pros and they are cast, not forged and they are also pocket CB's not plain CB's like the Pros.

 

I think you're dead on in terms of GI for the clubs - Just from looks and a few test swings or some actual play I'd go:

 

68/69, 63/64, 59, JPX Pros, 53, 4H, JPX

 

What shocked me was that when I grabed the 4H 6 iron from the shelf it looked to have a thicker sole (not top line) than my JPX 6 iron and also my old Nicklaus Iron Max Progressive - I'm really glad I didn't follow my gut and order that set.

 

I suppose it gets the MP lable because it's forged and also because the shorter irons are clearly MP's but it's a huge stretch to put those clubs in that line.

 

Playability wise what's the advantage to the pocket cavity back over a plain cavity back. Also why are GI clubs generally cast rather than forged or is this not actually the case?

[revkev]

Thanks again Richard - My eye isn't as discerning as yours - I'm fortunate if I can see the ball or rather one ball when I'm addressing it. If I'm seeing more than one or it's blury (most the time), I try to swing like I know what I'm doing and expect the best in regards to results - it's worked out so far.

 

I can't really tell the difference between the MP 53's and the JPX 825 pros - they look the same to me when I set up to the ball and they feel the same when I hit them - the ball flies about the same (I haven't been able to try both with the proper shaft for me in them). I think that either one would work fine for me.

 

I don't care much about distance with irons other than that I have consisten yardage gaps from bottom to the second to top of my set - I don't worry about the gap between fairway wood and driver as much because I'm not hitting driver off the deck and however far I can hit my second longest club in the bag comfortably is going to mark the top end of my range - doesn't bother me much if I'm hitting 8 and others are hitting 9 or wedge - I'm used to that.

 

It bothers me if I'm hitting 8 wildly in terms of accuracy and distance control. I guess that would make me an ideal candidate for the Mizuno line regardless of which designation it has after it.

[revkev]

Thanks again Richard - My eye isn't as discerning as yours - I'm fortunate if I can see the ball or rather one ball when I'm addressing it. If I'm seeing more than one or it's blury (most the time), I try to swing like I know what I'm doing and expect the best in regards to results - it's worked out so far.

 

I can't really tell the difference between the MP 53's and the JPX 825 pros - they look the same to me when I set up to the ball and they feel the same when I hit them - the ball flies about the same (I haven't been able to try both with the proper shaft for me in them). I think that either one would work fine for me.

 

I don't care much about distance with irons other than that I have consisten yardage gaps from bottom to the second to top of my set - I don't worry about the gap between fairway wood and driver as much because I'm not hitting driver off the deck and however far I can hit my second longest club in the bag comfortably is going to mark the top end of my range - doesn't bother me much if I'm hitting 8 and others are hitting 9 or wedge - I'm used to that.

 

It bothers me if I'm hitting 8 wildly in terms of accuracy and distance control. I guess that would make me an ideal candidate for the Mizuno line regardless of which designation it has after it.

[revkev]

You know there are worse vices in life than sets of irons.

 

Enjoy - this has been a very informative thread for me - way more than I thought it would be. Speaking of JMiller where is he lately? I miss his input.

[RoverRick]

There really is a razor thin margin of error with a blade, and I guess I'm at the stage where I'm just lookin at increasin that margin, without giving up the feel that I do have. And with technology where it is today with the irons, I think that I can keep that feel while getting a little more forgiveness.

 

 

Ya know, I just switched to the MP32/33 combination. These are to play in addition to the MP62 and in lieu of the Hogan CFT. The weighting system of the Hogans tend to close the toe of the club more creating more anti slice, so for me these go very high and very left. I noticed that the best clubs I hit were the full shots with the 51 and 56 wedges. Which I rarely hit because of spin issues. This lead me to buy a MP33 PW, which I hit much better and then I got a set of the MP32 4-9. I will probably add more MP33's at a later date but who knows. But I love the purer blade ball flight much better. When I am on, these are great. When I am not on, well, these are not as bad as the Hogan's when I was not on.

 

Yesterday, I did hit two horrible shots that were embarrassingly bad, but while I did not have my a game, I still played better than when I did not have my a game with the GI irons.

[RoverRick]

I find the same thing on my misses. I really don't have any other class of iron to compare them to, but misses are directional, as in a block/push if I get stuck, and usually if it's a 5i or up, I'm either greenside bunker or ruff, so I mean, as far as misses go, they're playable so I got nothin to b*tch about.

 

Dude, if ya cross paths with em, grab the 33s! 32s are a great, great iron. No doubt.

 

33s? Incredible!!

 

Have a good evenin :-)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

As I said, I will be getting the MP33's at some point but it will probably be the 7, 8, & 9 irons. I will probably keep the 5 and 6 in MP32. And my get another Adams Idea Pro Black in 23*. I have the 18 right now and it is perhaps the best hybrid I have ever used. I can hit that high or low, running or with spin. it is very controllable. I was a huge fan of the Hogan Hybrids, but at 8 years old they were a bit dated. I tried the TMag R11 Rescue, that I liked but it was simply a point and shot weapon. Not like the Pro Black. The Pro Black fires smart bombs.