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Finding the Sweet Spot...


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over and over. I actually did at the local (25 mi. away) Dick's Sporting Goods with a Callaway Razr x fitted with a TT GS-95 R300. I used an impact decal and after about 8 shots had a spot about 1/8" inside the club center blackened out. I never missed, and this was the second time I did this, the first time being sometime in November.

 

My question is, what gives? Is it the shaft, swingweight, MOI, shaft & head combo, what? I knew they had KBS Tour 90's in a set of R-11s and I wanted to see how they felt, but since no one else was around the Pro let me try different stuff. I remembered hitting dead nuts middle of clubface back in Nov. and thought I'd try the same setup, since they have a Callaway fit cart. I just can't believe how good I hit that combo, completely screwing up the idea of trying Rocketbladez!

 

Can anyone help me? Should I already have ordered a set of Razr X with GS-95 R300's?

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I'll take confidence in a club over the latest technology any day of the week!

BIRDIE COACH & MENTOR, FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON
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In my bag, March 2021
:titelist-small: TS2 Driver Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:titelist-small: TS2 Hybrids  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:bettinardi-1:  Putter

:bridgestone-small: 2020 TOUR B XS
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!)

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I recently experimented with a more forgiving set than I play and the shaft, head weight combo of them kept me from finding the sweet spot like I usually do. The feel wasn't there. If I spent enough time with them, I may have gotten to that point with them, but why bother? I already didn't have the confidence in them. I sold the set and made $100 so I made out pretty good on my experiment! I say, if you find something that works without having to "force" it to work, get it. If you already have that, why change it if it ain't broke?

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I am going to rant a little then I will get to your questions I promise.

 

 

Just to toss out some terminology on you all. Every club only has ONE "true sweet spot", this spot is the size of a the back of a pen. It is based on the CG of the club, to find the point you need to only have the head and place a pen in a clamp perfectly vertical then balance the head on the pen so that it can stay there without tipping. Here is an interesting article that helps explain it a little more. Almost always on most heads it is roughly 1.5" to 2" above the dead center of the face, but some exceptions do apply, this is an example with a Driver as that's the club where it is hte easiest to test the head, but also applies to every club in golf.

http://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-instruction/golfequipment/bombyourdriver/sweet-spot-golf.php

 

Irons might have some forgiveness in them with perimeter weighting which reduces the head twisting and loss of energy transfer to the ball. I sort of have to agree with the idea of a frying pan versus a carpenter hammer. in terms of SGI / GI type designs versus a blade design in terms of distributive weighting of the club for a visual idea with what it is like. I'm not here to get in that debate but here is an old article talking about that.

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/golf+equipment/5-2032-Blades_Versus_Cavity_Backs_A_Golf_Club_Epiphany.html

 

 

over and over. I actually did at the local (25 mi. away) Dick's Sporting Goods with a Callaway Razr x fitted with a TT GS-95 R300. I used an impact decal and after about 8 shots had a spot about 1/8" inside the club center blackened out. I never missed, and this was the second time I did this, the first time being sometime in November.

For a lot of blades the true sweet spot is 1/8" to 1/4" inside center line horizontally towards the heel, just depends on the weighting of the head (CG) where it would be. So that is not a bad thing at all in most cases.

 

My question is, what gives? Is it the shaft, swingweight, MOI, shaft & head combo, what? I knew they had KBS Tour 90's in a set of R-11s and I wanted to see how they felt, but since no one else was around the Pro let me try different stuff. I remembered hitting dead nuts middle of clubface back in Nov. and thought I'd try the same setup, since they have a Callaway fit cart. I just can't believe how good I hit that combo, completely screwing up the idea of trying Rocketbladez!

 

Can anyone help me? Should I already have ordered a set of Razr X with GS-95 R300's?

If you mean by "what gives" that you are not hitting the dead physical center of the face then don't bother worrying about it, that is an artificial quest to being a better golfer, we are talking about 1/8" on a CB, it's not going to matter enough to spend time worrying about it. You are better off working on controlling your shots shape and distance on each iron then casing the physical center of the club at impact.

 

Ben Hogan used to say that he would hit 6 shots "perfectly" the way he wanted them in a round of a 4 under 68. The game is not about perfection it is about controllable misses for lower scores.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I was wondering if the shaft has anything to do with the fact that I'm so consistent with this particular head, so it the swingweight, or moi or all of the above. I've never hit an iron so consistent (I'm a 14 hdcp).

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I was wondering if the shaft has anything to do with the fact that I'm so consistent with this particular head, so it the swingweight, or moi or all of the above. I've never hit an iron so consistent (I'm a 14 hdcp).

 

Well I can speculate a few things based on my personal experiences and maybe you can relate to them maybe not.

~ When I found the proper shaft my striking improved, a fitted shaft is always the best shaft for you.

~ When I found a swing weight that was not too light to where I could feel the head in the swing, but not so heavy I lost distance it helped with timing into impact and thus better contact / control.

~ When I found the proper head design (leading edge, bounce, over all weighting, etc.) it lead to more confidence and thus better contact / control. Mentally golfers need to be confident in what they are playing too often people blame equipment when it's the user not the tool.

 

My guess is you probably have just found what works best in all three aspects for your current ability or you just had a swing change you don't know about :)

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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  • 2 months later...

 

My question is, what gives? Is it the shaft, swingweight, MOI, shaft & head combo, what?

 

Can anyone help me?

 

A golfer's ability to achieve their highest level of ON center hits or achieve their most consistent swing tempo and timing is a product of the clubs' total weight (shaft weight) + swingweight (headweight feel) + length + grip size. For better players with a later release, you can add in the shaft's overall stiffness design (bend profile) to that list. These are the elements of club FEEL for which most golfers have a specific preference, but cannot seem to QUANTIFY those feel elements all together to be able to keep finding the right FEEL when they go buy new clubs.

 

All golfers have a unique combination of swing tempo, timing, rhythm and many golfers have theor own acquired preferences for the weight feel, headweight feel and sometimes the shaft bending feel of their clubs. Get any of these wrong in the clubs and the golfer will struggle to maintain a consistent tempo, timing, rhythm, and from that, experience more problems with swing consistency and on center hit performance.

 

For most golfers, it is then critical to match the shaft weight, swingweight/headweight feel, length to the golfer's swing tempo, timing, rhythm, and preferences for what they believe "feels too light", "feels too heavy" or "feels just right." There are no cut and dried formulas to determine these elements precisely for a golfer.

 

We do go on the common sense basis that the stronger the player, the more forceful their downswing transition and downswing acceleration, the heavier the shaft should/could be, the higher the swingweight should/could be. And vice versa, the weaker the player, the more passive their downswing move at the ball, the lighter the shaft should/could be, and the lower the swingweight should/could be.

 

But there are always exceptions due to whether the golfer has acquired a specific FEEL preference over years of playing. So it is possible to find strong, aggressive swingers who prefer a lighter total weight (shaft weight) and not so high of a swingweight. Same as it is possible to find weaker, more passive swinging golfers who prefer a heavier total weight (shaft weight) and a higher swingweight. Not that often, but it can happen.

 

This is why a good clubfitter really spends time asking the golfer if they do have specific feel preferences in their clubs - and also asking the golfer to bring in any clubs they have had which they believe FEEL good to them so the clubfitter can do various measurements. This then gives the clubfitter a good starting point for selecting the shaft weight (total weight) and the swingweight to better narrow down this search for the right feel in the clubs for each golfer.

 

TOM

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A golfer's ability to achieve their highest level of ON center hits or achieve their most consistent swing tempo and timing is a product of the clubs' total weight (shaft weight) + swingweight (headweight feel) + length + grip size. For better players with a later release, you can add in the shaft's overall stiffness design (bend profile) to that list. These are the elements of club FEEL for which most golfers have a specific preference, but cannot seem to QUANTIFY those feel elements all together to be able to keep finding the right FEEL when they go buy new clubs.

 

All golfers have a unique combination of swing tempo, timing, rhythm and many golfers have theor own acquired preferences for the weight feel, headweight feel and sometimes the shaft bending feel of their clubs. Get any of these wrong in the clubs and the golfer will struggle to maintain a consistent tempo, timing, rhythm, and from that, experience more problems with swing consistency and on center hit performance.

 

For most golfers, it is then critical to match the shaft weight, swingweight/headweight feel, length to the golfer's swing tempo, timing, rhythm, and preferences for what they believe "feels too light", "feels too heavy" or "feels just right." There are no cut and dried formulas to determine these elements precisely for a golfer.

 

We do go on the common sense basis that the stronger the player, the more forceful their downswing transition and downswing acceleration, the heavier the shaft should/could be, the higher the swingweight should/could be. And vice versa, the weaker the player, the more passive their downswing move at the ball, the lighter the shaft should/could be, and the lower the swingweight should/could be.

 

But there are always exceptions due to whether the golfer has acquired a specific FEEL preference over years of playing. So it is possible to find strong, aggressive swingers who prefer a lighter total weight (shaft weight) and not so high of a swingweight. Same as it is possible to find weaker, more passive swinging golfers who prefer a heavier total weight (shaft weight) and a higher swingweight. Not that often, but it can happen.

 

This is why a good clubfitter really spends time asking the golfer if they do have specific feel preferences in their clubs - and also asking the golfer to bring in any clubs they have had which they believe FEEL good to them so the clubfitter can do various measurements. This then gives the clubfitter a good starting point for selecting the shaft weight (total weight) and the swingweight to better narrow down this search for the right feel in the clubs for each golfer.

 

TOM

Thanks for sharing Tom! Drop in anywhere. Look forward to hearing more from you!

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Thanks for joining in this conversation Tom! I've learned a lot from your book "Search for the Perfect Club" http://www.amazon.com/Search-Perfect-Golf-Club-Wishon/dp/1587261855 and realized how important it was for me to get a "real" club fitting, since the only fittings in my area at the time were OEM carts and demo days. Before going on vacation in Southern Illinois 3 years ago, I contacted Don Coyle and made an appointment to have my first real club fitting. It's made a tremendous difference in my game (and my confidence). :D

What's In The Bag

Driver :titelist-small:

Titleist 913 D2 10.5* (set to 9.75* / Neutral) 46" Paderson KINETIXX Kevlar Green - R

Fairway Wood

Tom Wishon 949 MC 16.5* Fujikura Speeder 569-A

Hybrid  :cleveland-small: Hibore 22* Aldila VS Proto Blue

Irons  :ping-small: G series 5-P

Wedges :ping-small:Glide 54* SS / 60* TS - SCOR 53*

Putter     :nike-small: Nike Method 001 / P2 Reflex grip 35"

Ball

Master Grip Tour C4

Bag

Datrek DG Lite  

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I have a theory that the length of the club affects how you miss hit the ball. If the club is too long, you'll tend to miss towards the toe, too short, you'll tend to miss toward the heel.

Now in my bag:

TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex

TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood

Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff

Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft

Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Del Mar

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I have a theory that the length of the club affects how you miss hit the ball. If the club is too long, you'll tend to miss towards the toe, too short, you'll tend to miss toward the heel.

I will back that theory up. If I grip the club normally, I tend to miss off the toe; if I grip down a 1/2", I tend to flush it.

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It's actually the opposite. When fitting golfers, if they consistently strike it off the toe, you are to give them longer length clubs. Conversely if they strike it off the heel the clubs are too long and you are to give them shorter clubs.

 

I think that by choking down on the golf club you are tricking your mind and forcing yourself to reach for the ball or extend out as opposed to getting croc or t-Rex arms which happen with toe strikers.

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I think that by choking down on the golf club you are tricking your mind and forcing yourself to reach for the ball or extend out as opposed to getting croc or t-Rex arms which happen with toe strikers.

Shhh, don't tell my brain that. I have always struggled with swinging WAY from the inside and hitting a toed hook. I think the choking down gets me close enough to the ball to swinging on a more "straight" path.

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It's actually the opposite. When fitting golfers, if they consistently strike it off the toe, you are to give them longer length clubs. Conversely if they strike it off the heel the clubs are too long and you are to give them shorter clubs.

 

I think that by choking down on the golf club you are tricking your mind and forcing yourself to reach for the ball or extend out as opposed to getting croc or t-Rex arms which happen with toe strikers.

 

I doubt you can really blame the effect of one single aspect of a club upon it's effect on the player. Shaft length is one aspect, and a very easy one to play with. Others are lie, leading edge and flange. Even offset and loft has an effect upon the player's comfortable ball address position and therefore swing plane.

 

If the discussion were restricted to shaft length, it can be affected by the width of the player's stance. Making use of longer shafts can encourage a player to take a narrower stance, therefore growing a bit taller and possibly making his angle of attack a bit steeper. In my case, it makes my knees and back a bit more comfortable too. This does not necessarily have an effect upon the ball strike unless the player insists upon holding all other aspects static.

 

 

 

Shambles

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