Dramatic improvement following a critical insight?

[RoverRick]

HaHa Bro, I'd at least have the book 4-5 days and get oh, say 72-98 holes in before ya swear by it, lol :-)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

I did not even have to finish it. It could have one sentence in it and that is all i needed. That one sentence along with what I had been doing for the past couple of months put me on the right "plane" if you will. The ball flight on the 54 holes that I have played has been the best I have ever hit in my life. I hit a 2 iron today that went as far and as high as the guy I was playing with's 3 wood. Not to mention I played 27 holes of golf and can walk not limp around the house.

[RoverRick]

HaHa Bro, I'd at least have the book 4-5 days and get oh, say 72-98 holes in before ya swear by it, lol :-)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

OK, I just watched Golf Channel Brandel Chamblee busting Tiger because he does not trust his golf swing. Well, for the past 15 months, I have not had a golf swing that I could trust. I played the best golf of my life during that time, but I never knew if the ball was going to go exactly where I wanted it or 40 yards left. I also, was never sure if when I finished my follow through and went to take a step out of that position my legs were going work. There was once when I started a round with 3 birdies and an eagle on the first 5 holes and I left after my tee shot on 6.

 

My compromise was to simplify my swing (change to a one plane swing but I did not know this). However, if I tried to hit more than a 3/4 shot, it was back to not trusting it. So I gave up the distance, and played 3/4 shots. I still scored ok. I never got into trouble.

 

This book says, that as long as you stay on plane and start the down swing by "Turning" the torso, hips and shoulders, you can go at it as hard as you want to with the shoulders. This hip movement is the real deal for me. I said earlier it could have been one sentence, but that is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

I have been hitting the ball fairly low and had a difficult time finding a shaft that would hit the ball high enough without too much spin. This was not an issue. With this swing change I was getting beautiful ball flight. I had some bad shots but they were not like before. I remember two in particular that I was surprised how well they turned out based on such poor contact.

 

I said I now had a swing I could trust. I sorta had that before, but now I have a power swing I can trust.

[RoverRick]

No Dude, I know, that was directed at Dante. I love when a golf pro tries to sound like an engineer.

 

I've got Dante's book(I've had it for years, HaHa) but I gotta admit that I haven't read it yet. Is it worth reading?

 

Thanx much :-)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

No. In my opinion, the one plane swing debunks all of Dante's "Four Magic Moves."

 

The four Magic moves are:

1. Early backwards wrist break.
2. Spring tension in the torso at the top.
3. Start the swing with an aggressive lateral hip thrust.
4. Conservation of angular momentum and make no effort to move the arms.

The reverse wrist break is crap according to Hardy. This presets the wrist into a bowed position and it stays there until well into the follow through. While this fine for the pitching swing, it robs the full swing of power. This also is the opposite of the early release so I found it beneficial, because I had an early release. However, according to the swing speed meter, this is a good 5 mph slower than rolling the wrist. Not only that it is hard on the tendon in the left elbow. It has caused many golfers, myself included, tendonitis of the elbow.

 

Spring tension at the top is the same as Hardy teaches.

 

Starting the downswing with a lateral hip shift is a two plane swing. This is a much more difficult swing in my opinion and caused me back issues. Well, since that was not the cause of my back issues, it exacerbated my back issues.

 

 

The one plane swing. My theory of the one plane swing.

 

 

1. Take your grip, neutral or strong.
2. Stand up straight with the club chest high.
3. Feet shoulder width apart.
4. Turn your left foot 45* towards the target.
5. Turn your back to the target as you rotate the club head behind you, point your thumbs at your right shoulder and parallel to the ground keeping your left arm straight. Your shoulders should be 90*s and your hips should be about 45*.
6. Turn body and face the target and as you are turning roll your wrists to where your thumbs are pointing thumbs at your left shoulder. The turning of the body causes the club to follow.
7. Now bend over at the waste and scoot until you are behind the ball.
8. Keeping everything the same, do this turning again and hit the ball.
9. Swing as hard as you can with your shoulders without losing your balance.

There ya go. You may want to read the book because this is a rather simplistic view of it.

[RoverRick]

Are ya talkin bout readin Dante's book?

 

Nice summary on the one plane!

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

No read Hardy's. Hardy does a much better job as far as instructions. Dante is good entertainment. As far as quality of golf instructin goes I like Hardy. But Dante may have been insane.

[Rickles]

 

The one plane swing. My theory of the one plane swing.

 

 

1. Take your grip, neutral or strong.
2. Stand up straight with the club chest high.
3. Feet shoulder width apart.
4. Turn your left foot 45* towards the target.
5. Turn your back to the target as you rotate the club head behind you, point your thumbs at your right shoulder and parallel to the ground keeping your left arm straight. Your shoulders should be 90*s and your hips should be about 45*.
6. Turn body and face the target and as you are turning roll your wrists to where your thumbs are pointing thumbs at your left shoulder. The turning of the body causes the club to follow.
7. Now bend over at the waste and scoot until you are behind the ball.
8. Keeping everything the same, do this turning again and hit the ball.
9. Swing as hard as you can with your shoulders without losing your balance.

There ya go. You may want to read the book because this is a rather simplistic view of it.

 

That was a great description of one plane. Exactly what I have been trying to do. Its also exactly what hardy says in the book. actually the only thing I have been thinking about is to throw my hands behind me so my left arm is against my pecs (or man boobs as is more the case) in the backswing and then turn my chest as hard as I can. I'm hitting the ball really solid and with a very consitent flight (baby draw). I'm hitting the ball about the same distance but I am very consistent and that is what I've been missing.

 

How was the round at the tribute yesterday. Sounds like you hit it solid. Did you score well?

[furu]

Simplistic is excellent RoverRick Thanks for posting. Will get the book soon. Always interesting to take a look at new ideas.

[RoverRick]

That was a great description of one plane. Exactly what I have been trying to do. Its also exactly what hardy says in the book. actually the only thing I have been thinking about is to throw my hands behind me so my left arm is against my pecs (or man boobs as is more the case) in the backswing and then turn my chest as hard as I can. I'm hitting the ball really solid and with a very consitent flight (baby draw). I'm hitting the ball about the same distance but I am very consistent and that is what I've been missing.

 

How was the round at the tribute yesterday. Sounds like you hit it solid. Did you score well?

 

Thanks, the Tribute yesterday was cancelled because HULK broke the plane and did not get her until yesterday afternoon. We played Waterchase today in Fort Worth. We both struck the ball great. However, the greens killed us.

 

OK, on to the arm lag. I am surprised that this swing has been as easy a change as it has been for me. Seriously, I changed from a two plane swing to a one plane three days ago. Today, I had like four times I reverted back and hit bad shot. I was hitting four bad shots around with the old swing anyway.

 

To get the arm lag, I think about turning my shoulders and letting my arms follow. My purpose is to make the swing as simple as possible. I start the swing with relaxed arms and as soon as I get to 90* with the shoulders, I start turning the hips back. So let's say the shoulders get to 90* and the hips are at 45*. By starting with the hips they already have a 45* head start. The arms are relaxed so the keep moving to the rear. The hips start back and already have a lead, and the shoulders start back and create a lead on the hands. So the relaxed arms end up naturally trailing the shoulders.

 

So try it with relaxed arms.

[revkev]

I am also a fan or the Relaxed Power Tyk talks about. I just downloaded the Jim Hardy's book so I will give that a look see and get back to you. I think I will run to the course and wack a few balls before I read it.

 

Having had the pleasure of playing with you RR I'd say the Hardy book could be more damaging than helpful for you. His method would represent a huge change in direction.

 

Having written that I'm a one planner and Hardy's stuff is very helpful for me.

 

Oh and welcome Captain C!

[craptastic]

 

To get the arm lag, I think about turning my shoulders and letting my arms follow. My purpose is to make the swing as simple as possible. I start the swing with relaxed arms and as soon as I get to 90* with the shoulders, I start turning the hips back. So let's say the shoulders get to 90* and the hips are at 45*. By starting with the hips they already have a 45* head start. The arms are relaxed so the keep moving to the rear. The hips start back and already have a lead, and the shoulders start back and create a lead on the hands. So the relaxed arms end up naturally trailing the shoulders.

 

So try it with relaxed arms.

 

This is exactly what is prescribed in the Tamayo book RP recommended. It's a little different than what Hardy says in that he wants the right arm to pull the left arm and chest back. Tamayo is almost more of a pamphlet in that I read it cover to cover in about 30-40 min. Might as well check it out since you are already on the same wavelength. If you have a kindle its $4.99.

[craptastic]

Dude. I can't call ya Crap or Craptastic on a regular basis(Hell, not even on an intermittent basis ), so I'm goin with CT!

 

Appreciate the consideration, but Crap is fine - I like it, kinda funny and definitely been called worse. CT is good too though.

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

[Blade]

This is exactly what is prescribed in the Tamayo book RP recommended. It's a little different than what Hardy says in that he wants the right arm to pull the left arm and chest back. Tamayo is almost more of a pamphlet in that I read it cover to cover in about 30-40 min. Might as well check it out since you are already on the same wavelength. If you have a kindle its $4.99.

This has turned into a really good thread! Glad to have you here. Although I'm with Richard. We'll have to call you CT for short. Can't go with Crap!

 

Back on the first page, I made a comment about how I've changed my swing recently which has simplified it, helped me quit turning my hips too much and made it much more repeatable for me. I was trying to figure out how to describe what I started doing to someone without a video or some way to show what I mean. It was just the way I came up with after asking myself, "What is the most efficient way to use my body to swing my arms?". I didn't think it was the "right" way necessarily because it's not what I've heard any instructor say.

 

Well when Richard recommended that book, I downloaded it onto my phone out of curiosity. Ding Dang if it didn't describe EXACTLY what I started doing! From exactly how I started turning my shoulders to how to use the right arm in the downswing. No joke! I couldn't describe it better if I tried. It simplifies things and is easy to replicate. I'm a believer cuz I was hyped about what it did for me before even knowing about the little book. Thanks for the recommendation Richard! At least I know it's a valid concept, not just me doing my own thing. It may not be for everyone, but I love it.

 

Him saying to begin the downswing by thinking of dropping the right arm may not be good for someone who doesn't know how to use their body pivot yet. If they are going at the ball over the top with their shoulders and arms, they may not use that mental thought right.

 

For someone who turns like they should it works great though. It will keep you from getting stuck no matter how hard you turn.

[RoverRick]

Having had the pleasure of playing with you RR I'd say the Hardy book could be more damaging than helpful for you. His method would represent a huge change in direction.

 

Having written that I'm a one planner and Hardy's stuff is very helpful for me.

 

Oh and welcome Captain C!

 

Actually, it is shocking how easy the change was from two plane to a one plane swing. The interesting thing is over the past few days I have made that full shoulder turn a lot. Several times a day getting that ingrained into my memory. My lower back muscles feel a bit tight but the spine itself feels better than it has in over a year.

 

However, Hardy does not advocate one swing over the other. He simply tells the differences in the two swings and says that each person should make their own choice as to which is better for them.

 

I will say in addition to not having as much lower back pain I have been pounding the ball the last few days. I have been having summer distance out of my drives, and while I may not be getting as much distance with the irons, I am hitting them much higher.

[RoverRick]

RK, if Rick's a one-planer(or any one planer for that matter), why would Hardy's one-plane stuff screw him up? And this isn't rhetorical, cuz I hate rhetorical questions & would never ask one and also, though I read Hardy's book years ago and even though I didn't incorporate any of it, it seemed ok if ya were lookin for a new swing and wanted a fairly simple system(comparatively).

 

His second book I bought but have never read. I'm not into "experimenting" and I'm lucky to repeat the swing that I've got, HaHa. If I started tryin stuff outa these books, I'd really be screwed, lol.

 

Have a good one

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

I totally agree with the last statement. That is why even after I changed my swing a year ago, and knew that it was not the best for me, I was very hesitant to change again. It took months to change last time and I expected a long an arduous journey. Instead, it took about 4 holes.

[Blade]

Actually, it is shocking how easy the change was from two plane to a one plane swing. The interesting thing is over the past few days I have made that full shoulder turn a lot. Several times a day getting that ingrained into my memory. My lower back muscles feel a bit tight but the spine itself feels better than it has in over a year.

 

However, Hardy does not advocate one swing over the other. He simply tells the differences in the two swings and says that each person should make their own choice as to which is better for them.

 

I will say in addition to not having as much lower back pain I have been pounding the ball the last few days. I have been having summer distance out of my drives, and while I may not be getting as much distance with the irons, I am hitting them much higher.

I tell you what Rick, golf has saved my back! I was doing too much sitting in a machine of some kind and then even worse, at my desk at work. My lower back was always hurting. The more I swing and keep my core in shape, the better my back is. I gained 10 pounds sitting around after surgery and I feel it already. Keeping the core toned is critical for my back.