"Distance Irons"

[Blade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLMsAoe7PME

Thanks for posting that BK! Pretty much what I expected, but very cool to see it proven.

[Blade]

Looking at the big picture a bit here, I do think these irons and others like them have their place. They may help some people quite a bit. The forgiveness factor is impressive. I wouldn't, at this point anyway, want to practice with that type of club. I want to know if I'm missing the sweet spot which I can tell with my clubs. I think these would tend to make me lazy about quality strikes maybe. If I couldn't really feel if I was missing the center of the face by half an inch, and the results were still good, I could be doing that on a regular basis and not realize it.

 

I still have an issue with the whole distance thing though. How many clubs do you want or need in your bag that go over 200 yards? My 5 iron is my go to club for a regular 200 yard shot that's not uphill or into the wind. I still think if I suddenly was getting that out of my 7 iron, I would be hurting my score by leaving ridiculous gaps in the most important yardages closer in. For people who struggle with distance, it still seems like that would be an issue, but maybe less pronounced. I know some people don't see much difference in their distances between irons due to their swing. Maybe these would really help them. Anyway, great comments everyone.

[EricL]

Interesting, I had a discussion with a salesman at the pro shop at the range today. He thought I was going to ask how far the distance irons went. My actual question was about yardage gaps. How much further apart they are. In my set I hit my 4-iron about 190, and my pitching wedge about 120. So I have a 70 yard gap to be filled with 6 clubs. So if I hit an X-Hot 4i 200 or even 210, while the PW was still 120, you now have a 80-90 yd gap with 6 clubs, or 13-15 yds. He didn't know but thought when I came in for a fitting if I got a distance iron we could flightscope a progression to test it. I also wonder if it's a roughly the same distance between each club, or a progressively longer gap? An unscientific touch and feel of the X-Hot felt as if the short irons had thicker, shorter faces than the mid & long irons. I'm guessing it's closer to 10 yds between G/P/9 and more like 15 yds between 6/5/4. Biggest problem for me getting a distance set is it would encroach on my fairways, so I'd need a new hybrid and probably a 3w. Anyway I've had a couple year layoff due to injury, so I'm going get some rounds under my belt, and then go in and start testing irons. Going to keep an open mind and let the feel, consistency, and accuracy do the talking.

[apprenti23]

I play irons for specific yardages not raw distance. I had a set of diablo forged and they were the longest ever- standard 180 yard 8 irons- if I was in the rough I could hit a flier 210-215 7 iron. They were great irons but I hated how far I hit them. I would much rather hit my pw 130 yards than 160 yards.

 

I honestly feel that within a couple years we'll see more sets go back to traditional lofts, or at least the reintroduction of the 10 iron lol

[Shambles]

So called " traditional lofts " do not exist. Lofts change from generation to generation. I spent a tremendous amount of time with Eye 2 lofts and am therefore most comfortable with them. When the Callaway X12 came out, they were a full club stronger than the Eye 2 which in their turn had been lower lofted than the clubs that preceded them. I understand the latest PW loft is about the loft of my eye 2 8 iron. The 60* wedge, I think, used to be a fairly common sand wedge but became a Lob wedge in my time.

 

If you are used to the lofts of a bygone time, you would need to buy additional wedges to replace the missing lofts. If you are one amongst the new guys, you might learn to use the lower lofts in the short game, or buy additional wedges as need arises.

 

 

 

Shambles

[apprenti23]

So you think the pitching wedge will be 40* soon?

[Blade]

Never heard of a 60° being a common sw. The highest lofted club used to be a 10i or pw at around 50°. There was no such thing as a sw.

[Super Tuna]

So you think the pitching wedge will be 40* soon?

 

In some sets it already is. The PRGR Egg Forged was a 40* PW. Heck, the "PW" in the Cobra S3's was 43*

[JBones]

I know it's been said before, but I don't buy into the "distance" irons. They are called "distance" irons to sell, because lets face it, distance does sell. Yes, I can hit these RBladez further, but thats not why I bag them, it's because they are super forgiving and I can him them the distance I need with little effort. It's always nice to be able to drop a 7i from the moon on a 190yd par 3 though.

[Shambles]

Never heard of a 60° being a common sw. The highest lofted club used to be a 10i or pw at around 50°. There was no such thing as a sw.

 

 

I was given an SW that I was told was about 60* back when I was in high school and the thing was heavy with a lot of bounce and sent the ball flying high. Unfortunately, in my part of the world, bending an iron was still done on a bench vise and measuring loft was more eyeball skill than some machine. Rather sad that I no longer have that club for discursive purposes.

 

Back then, older golfers were complaining of delofted clubs that were coming out though I myself felt that my new clubs were already too lofted. I have no idea of when there was such a thing as traditional lofts. I have the impression that the 50's were not that far from the time of small shops making hand made clubs. I'm pretty sure things were more modern than I remember. It just feels that way when I look back from now.

 

 

Shambles

[Mr_Theoo]

 

Could these be the best of both worlds for the distance iron category? Long and forged, cant wait to give these a hit.

[RoverRick]

This was an excellent thread and I have kind of taken this and the score principle to my current what's in the bag.  I have blades 8, 9, P, 52, 58, 64.  Then distance irons, more GI irons with stronger lofts 5, 6, 7 irons and a 23 & 18 hybrids and 14* FM with my driver and putter.   I have been playing this set up for the past couple of weeks and it is really a great combo.

[Mr_Theoo]

It does look as though all the OEMs have came to play with what looks like quality distance irons offerings. It will be a fun year to test these

[The Dansome]

 

Could these be the best of both worlds for the distance iron category? Long and forged, cant wait to give these a hit.

 

Boy these look good

[BIG STU]

What difference does it make what you hit or if the loft of your 7 iron is the other guys 4, it is all the same, 24 degrees is 24 degrees, no matter what the number. In fact they should do away with numbers, it is just confusing, put lofts on instead. What is this game coming to, Taylor is just strong lofts and longer shafts and that is what it is about, it is not the fantastic top secret gizmo head, it is simply loft and length. Sure, there are spring faces now we didn't have years ago, but that again loft and length rules.

 

Cobra was the first with the King Cobra. I had a student that was hitting his wedge 135 to 140, WOW. After the lesson I went into my shop and checked the specs, the loft was a current 8 iron and the length was 1/2 long of std. for a wedge. No wonder, the guy was really hitting a 8 Iron. You can fool yourself all you want but if you really want to find something out go hit a 7 iron from the 70s and then a 7 iron from today, that will show you something. I can remember the days when a P/W was 50 loft, today a P/W is 44 or 45. Now there are some companies that make Tour Irons that are close to the old lofts, but even they are usually in the 48 degree range.

 

So you see, it is all done with smoke and mirrors and I hear every day how far guys are hitting their Irons, WOW a 170 yd. 7 iron, I just laugh cause it is my days 5 iron, big deal. By the way, anyone see the amount of ball run they were getting at Riviera? A 250 yd carry was resulting in a 305 yd. Drive. Make those fairways tight and hard for yardage, it all sells clubs, and that is what it is all about,,,,,,distance, not much about accuracy, but distance is King, no matter how you get it.

You hit the nail square on the head with that statement that is exactly what I was going to say

[BIG STU]

I was given an SW that I was told was about 60* back when I was in high school and the thing was heavy with a lot of bounce and sent the ball flying high. Unfortunately, in my part of the world, bending an iron was still done on a bench vise and measuring loft was more eyeball skill than some machine. Rather sad that I no longer have that club for discursive purposes.

 

Back then, older golfers were complaining of delofted clubs that were coming out though I myself felt that my new clubs were already too lofted. I have no idea of when there was such a thing as traditional lofts. I have the impression that the 50's were not that far from the time of small shops making hand made clubs. I'm pretty sure things were more modern than I remember. It just feels that way when I look back from now.

 

 

Shambles

The old school way to bend irons was with a pipe wrench and a vise. You checked them with a protractor just like the one you used in 10th grade geometry. with old forged irons you could not jack the lofts more than 2* or so or you would run into digging issues. If you decreased the lofts then you could run into bounce issues. In fact even though I have a loft and lie machine and proper bending bar now I still double check using a Golfworks protractor guage

[BIG STU]

I play irons for specific yardages not raw distance. I had a set of diablo forged and they were the longest ever- standard 180 yard 8 irons- if I was in the rough I could hit a flier 210-215 7 iron. They were great irons but I hated how far I hit them. I would much rather hit my pw 130 yards than 160 yards.

 

I honestly feel that within a couple years we'll see more sets go back to traditional lofts, or at least the reintroduction of the 10 iron lol

Remember something else I found to be true. the construction of modern irons especially cavity backs tend to have hotter faces. I learned this when I switched from my 70s MacGregor irons to Infiniti Irons I had to learn to hit short shots again even though I had bent my wedges to traditional lofts

[RoverRick]

You hit the nail square on the head with that statement that is exactly what I was going to say

 

 

What difference does it make what you hit or if the loft of your 7 iron is the other guys 4, it is all the same, 24 degrees is 24 degrees, no matter what the number. In fact they should do away with numbers, it is just confusing, put lofts on instead. What is this game coming to, Taylor is just strong lofts and longer shafts and that is what it is about, it is not the fantastic top secret gizmo head, it is simply loft and length. Sure, there are spring faces now we didn't have years ago, but that again loft and length rules.

 

 

You are both right but that does not mean you get the point.  When you look at one club out of the line up that is true.  But it is the entire bag that makes the difference.  I currently have six different brands in my bag, and I changed out a hybrid since I posted this morning.  Ha Ha.

 

But what I have now, based on my current swing is 6 clubs including my pitching wedge to cover the 130 - 187 yard range, 4 wedges including the pitching wedge for partial shots and 125 down range, and now, 4 clubs to cover the 200 yard and up range and of course the putter.

 

While I actually do not have any but the earliest version of the distance irons (Ben Hogan Apex Edge CTF), they allow me to cover a 15 yard spread (plus choking down to an inch to make that a 7-8 yard spread) and thus eliminating one club.  Basically by swapping my blades 7-6-5-4 for CFT 7-6-5 covering the same distance.  Then I can have the 23* & 18* hybrids and 14* FM for off the tee and off the deck.

 

For a number of years, any shot that was over 200 yards was simply not worth the effort of going for it for me.  I did not have the accuracy to make it worthwhile.  Now, with swing changes and better technologies, both heads and shafts, I can go for it.  Still may not make it but at least I have the confidence to do so.

[SMRT]

I have really been working on my iron play and the last thing I think about is distance. I tried the Rocketballs and the Rocketbladez and did see huge distance increases but who needs a 200 yard 7 iron if you can't fill in the gaps below. I have not gotten to the point that I have good distance control on partial shots so "Distance Irons" don't really help me.

For better players, I could see this being a huge advantage in theoretically adding a lot of clubs to their bag.

For new golfers, I could see this being a problem of trying to make shots they really should not be trying until they get the basics down. 

[Mr_Theoo]

Now that I have gotten better I see distance for the stake of distance is pointless.

 

But with these new technologies you aren't just getting raw distance but distance with the proper launch characteristics so that 7 iron that may go as far as a 6 or 5 iron still lands like a 7 iron. That is a good thing I feel.

[Blade]

OK, let's go with a 200 7i being a good thing.  So that means 7,6,5,4,3/hybrid, 3fm, and driver are all for full shots 200 yds and over.  Really?  Really?  And how does that gapping work for the few clubs left for under 200 yds? 8i 188, 9i 176, PW 164?  Really?  Ain't buyin' that being a good thing.  How could that in anyone's game equal appropriate gaps for closer to the green where most of the game is played?

 

At 200 yds, 3 degrees offline puts you 10 1/2 yds off target.  Will the 7 stamped on the bottom of a club that is longer than a 7i, and a stronger loft than a 7i with a hotter face tighten up that 3 degrees?  Maybe, depends.  Will that distance be more consistent?  I really doubt it.  But what percentage of shots in a round are 200 yds or more anyway?  What percentage of your bag goes 200 yds or more?  Shouldn't those percentages tend to match up?

[BIG STU]

Rover oh trust me I do get it! With my new irons I am carrying 4 wedges for the first time in my life. I have them bent up for the short shots. I am also not carrying a 3 iron because they don't make them in that set. I am sort of different on the long gaps. MY 4 iron and my 7 wood are the same loft (21*) but I switch clubs for different shots. I can hot either one 190 to 210 but the 7 wood I can hit a soft high cut and stop the ball. The 4 iron with the way the club is designed I can hit a flyer about 215 with it. On those 2 clubs it depends on the lie. But I love the flyer lies from light Bremuda rough with the 4 iron. These particular Irons are the only CBs I have ever been able to work the ball with like a blade. And like RP said on the Diablo irons these also are made of "Carpenter steel" I had to do a lot of adjusting with my game to play them because the faces are so hot. I also spent a lot of time on my loft and lie machine getting my lofts correct for my proper gaps for me. That is the key getting the clubs set up for your proper lofts and distances no matter the brand. Far as what number on the clubs is (8 iron vs 7 iron) I could care less I have gotten used to how my clubs hit and I club accordingly with another main thing confidence

[SMRT]

OK, let's go with a 200 7i being a good thing.  So that means 7,6,5,4,3/hybrid, 3fm, and driver are all for full shots 200 yds and over.  Really?  Really?  And how does that gapping work for the few clubs left for under 200 yds? 8i 188, 9i 176, PW 164?  Really?  Ain't buyin' that being a good thing.  How could that in anyone's game equal appropriate gaps for closer to the green where most of the game is played?

 

At 200 yds, 3 degrees offline puts you 10 1/2 yds off target.  Will the 7 stamped on the bottom of a club that is longer than a 7i, and a stronger loft than a 7i with a hotter face tighten up that 3 degrees?  Maybe, depends.  Will that distance be more consistent?  I really doubt it.  But what percentage of shots in a round are 200 yds or more anyway?  What percentage of your bag goes 200 yds or more?  Shouldn't those percentages tend to match up?

 

I agree that most golfers, such as myself, are not good enough shot makers to take advantage of a 200 yard 7i. And even some golfers that are excellent shot makers will not want to modify their game enough to take advantage of those types of distances. I focus on trying to hit the same distance each time with each club. If I try to use the same club for different distances I am so sporadic that I may as well just throw my ball into the lake. 

 

I think this topic is just another example of why golf is a sport that you have to work on YOUR game. If you want to hit a PW 200 yds, work on it and do it. If you do not care how far it goes but as long as it goes the same distance every time, do that. Find what works for you and do it.

 

I think Gin helps my game, so I will stick with that!

[Blade]

HaHa, yea, really.

 

No offense intended Bro, however the distances that these guys actually take a 7i from is 188-195, so maybe not actually 200yds.

 

So, for the sake of arguement, you could remove the 7i from your list of full swing clubs over 200yds & go with the 6i, 5i, 4i, 3H(3i), FM & Dr.

 

One's a +1, the second's a 1 and the third is an asst pro soon to be Class A.

 

And there are more than a few Tour guys who routinely use a 7i from 190-200yds, and one of these guys has his 7i @ 34*, the asst pro's is @ 33*(same as mine) and the third, I don't know what his is, though he plays the Ping i20's.

 

And I would have to have a guy who can actually do that, like Apprenti, tell me that it's not preferable versus people who are lucky to put a 7i on a 30yd wide green from 160yds, LMAO.

 

And I AM NOT refering to you with that statement.

 

I just prefer to hear from one who can do, because then it ceases to be a theoretical conversation.

 

And these three guys all start to use a PW at anywhere from 140-155yds.

 

The asst. Pro's the longest of the three

 

 

Have a great day

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

 

 

 

No offense taken.  I was going by what you stated, which was a theoretical statement.

 

   

 

And if I could hit a 200yd 7i with the same accuracy, consistency & trajectory that I currently(or at least last year, lol) hit a 173yd 7i, and be able to have that 12-13yd gap through my whole set, would I want that?

 

F*ck yea I would, cuz I watch 2-3 guys who play those yardages and the game's a hell of a lot easier, lol.

 

 

 

 

My point was, what the heck would anyone need a 7i to be a 200 yd club for?  No I don't believe most people are actually hitting 200 yds with the "distance" 7 irons.  I responded to the IDEA that it would be a good thing.  Like you said, the caveat would be proper gapping.  That's my point.  12-15 yds both ways from a 200 yd 7i doesn't make sense and would leave a ridiculous gap below the PW in that case.  My point is, I just don't see needing more than 3 or maybe 4 clubs for over 200 yds in the bag depending on one's driver distance in the first place, in addition to the lower end gaps that would create.  

 

I'm betting if you actually got a hold of a set that really gave you those distances, you would have clubs on the top end you would rarely use and need clubs at the bottom of the bag.  It just wouldn't make sense.  But maybe that's just me.  You might really like that setup if it was a reality.  

 

But again, this whole thread started out questioning the IDEA of making irons that much longer, not that the normal guy using them sees that type of distance.