Long irons consistency

[JMiller]

I think it's a personality thing too, based on my experience.

The only reason I got down to 11 is because of my short game and putting.

 

But tee shots and fairway shots are just not fun if I don't feel like I'm muscling it. And the bad is that... I know I score better when I'm relaxed and just swing naturally, but I still want

to muscle shots because it feels good.

 

Sigh... maybe I'm just insane... lol

 

Anything that is upright in an arm-plane at the top (Two-plane, Hybrid plane) has to be a little slow feeling in transition because the hips slide they don't rotate and the hands have to drop down. You have to counter the lift with the lateral slide of the hips.

 

If you are a one-plane swinger then you can just go full throttle with hip rotation from the start and it feels faster / better if you want to "muscle it". This might be one of the biggest reasons that a lot of AMs end up in a one-plane swing eventually. Tiger woods went from a Hybrid swing to a one-plane swing because he felt like the hybrid swing was "slow" and he was holding back something.

 

I am not a believer in a single swing model, I will not tell you that you should completely overhaul your swing. I take the stance that I'll try to help you tweak your swing and make what model you have more efficient.

 

This video I found about Jack Nicklaus and his swing has a few key things in it:

>> For an upright player you must get to your left side with lateral slide.

>> FEEL like you release early and sweep the ball.

 

[sai-jin]

JM, I just got back from 18 holes just now. So I managed to straightened my shots by releasing properly half the time at least... what I noticed it I seem to have lost distance.

 

So I decided to swing "hard" and of course... push fade...

 

THought I'd let you know on my discoveries so far and my ball flight improvements.

 

I'll check out the video above and the "slow" feel more tomorrow.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

DAYUM! That's one hell of a fast swing!!!! I like it. I think I see that as he reached the top of the swing, his lower body already

started to go towards the target, so he slowed down a little at the top, dropping it, then bam! That swing looks super aggressive to me.

[sai-jin]

in the video it looks as if he throws a hammer up then using the momentum down, he whips the club like a whip.

 

I tried doing this in the living room and one thing I"m worried about it topping or even missing the ball... feels super fast though, doing it this way.

[JMiller]

Not what my intentions of the video were at all.

 

In a two-lane swing you have to have the following happen:

1) hips laterally slide in transition without rotation

2) hands drop down behind you as a result of this lateral slide

3) left arm pulls down into impact with an early feeling release

 

You can go hard with the legs but they have to SLIDE, not rotate.

The two-plane swing has to feel very damn slow in transition in terms of rotation, espesually for someone that wants to "nail it".

 

Like I said before for someone that has the urge to feel like their body does a lot or work in the swing... A Two-plane and hybrid plane are probably not the right answers, you would likely want to go to a one-plane. I'm not saying any of the models are better then another, it's really a matter of personal preference as backswing positions are not in concrete.

 

Tiger Woods went from Butch Harmon to Hank Haney then Foley for that exact reason, he felt like the Hybrid Plane Butch taught him was slow, so he started converting to a one-plane swing.

 

 

I'll name some players off the top of my head that have been successful in golf, this list could get a ton deeper if I bothered to look up more names.

 

One-plane:

Ben Hogan, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods (currently), Matt Kuchar

 

Hybrid Plane:

Byron Nelson, Greg Norman, Tiger Woods (With Butch Harmon / 2000), Adam Scott

 

Two-plane

Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Johnny Miller, Fred Couples, Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, Tiger Woods (AM, up to Butch)

[JMiller]

I am not providing videos and images with the intentions of having you copy another person. They are only to be used as examples of players that are the same swing model that you have.

 

If you are going to take swing advice it has to match the TWO-PLANE swing model unless you decide to completely overhaul your swing which I am not going to help you with. I will not tell a player to change, we should not make a change out of frustration or on a whim.

 

If you are going to take swing "tips" then make sure at least they match a two-plane swing. That is my point, you need to understand your swing method enough to know what to leave on the table and what to attempt to implement, you have to see the need for a change in the first place that will actually provide the results you want.

 

I am going to say this again, it is probably time that you work with an instructor that knows the two-plane swing inside and out and does it for a living. It seems like you are just trying anything out of desperation and that is dangerous. I can PM you Bruce Rearick's E-Mail address (bargolf, Burnt Edges Consulting) if you want to contact him for possible online courses / instruction.

[revkev]

Why do you want to hit a long iron? That's a question that was asked earlier and I think it needs to be visited again. I get why someone like Tiger wants to hit a long iron and there are clearly some here he may hit long irons well - if that's the case go for it.

 

But why not opt for the easier to hit fairway wood or hybrid?

 

For that matter why not consider something like the Mizuno Fli-hi that's silly easy to hit and functions like a long iron?

[JMiller]

Just my two cents on equipment...

 

A hybrid is not "easier" to hit then a long iron, you will slice or hook both just as badly or maybe worse on the hybrid.

 

If you look at STOCK lengths of clubs between a 21* 3iron in a players set it's normally 39.00" in length. The 20 to 22* hybrids are between 40" and 41" normally. The club is longer then the equivalent iron. I think that most of us can say that a lot of AMs struggle with the club the longer the shaft gets so how is it helping the player telling them to switch to a longer shafted club? Tht's why a lot of people switched from a fairway metal to a hybrid as the shafts are shorter.

 

Equipment will never fix a swing flaw, it can only place a band-aid on the bleeding to help reduce the poor results. If you always put patches on the swing with equipment it will constantly need re-patched. It's like patching a pot hole, sooner or later the road will need replaced regardless of how often you patch it.

 

I don't like using technology / equipment to reduce or fix a swing flaw. It's more expensive long term to just blindly buy equipment when something goes wrong blaming the club rather then the operator. OEMs bank on someone with that line of thinking looking for the quick fix.

 

My suggestion is instruction and fitting equipment to maximize your ability. Fix the source of the issue, don't patch it to save face.

[revkev]

Just my two cents on equipment...

 

A hybrid is not "easier" to hit then a long iron, you will slice or hook both just as badly or maybe worse on the hybrid.

 

If you look at STOCK lengths of clubs between a 21* 3iron in a players set it's normally 39.00" in length. The 20 to 22* hybrids are between 40" and 41" normally. The club is longer then the equivalent iron. I think that most of us can say that a lot of AMs struggle with the club the longer the shaft gets so how is it helping the player telling them to switch to a longer shafted club? Tht's why a lot of people switched from a fairway metal to a hybrid as the shafts are shorter.

 

Equipment will never fix a swing flaw, it can only place a band-aid on the bleeding to help reduce the poor results. If you always put patches on the swing with equipment it will constantly need re-patched. It's like patching a pot hole, sooner or later the road will need replaced regardless of how often you patch it.

 

I don't like using technology / equipment to reduce or fix a swing flaw. It's more expensive long term to just blindly buy equipment when something goes wrong blaming the club rather then the operator. OEMs bank on someone with that line of thinking looking for the quick fix.

 

My suggestion is instruction and fitting equipment to maximize your ability. Fix the source of the issue, don't patch it to save face.

 

I do disagree to some extent. Because of the head shape the hybrid is in fact an easier club to hit than a long iron or perhaps the better term would be a more effective club than a long iron for many if not most golfers - there are always exceptions. Even with extremely efficient swings most touring pros, champions tour pros and LPGA players are carrying at least one hybrid in their bags if not more. Some have replaced fairway woods but many have replaced their long irons with a hybrid or two. Even those who carry long irons tend towards some sort of "easier" to hit club rather than a pure blade.

 

I certainly would never recommend against lessons and am not doing that here. I'm simply asking the question why are you wanting to hit a long iron? It's no different from asking, why do you want to hit a lofted wedge or a middle iron or a driver or a fairway wood.

 

There are lots of ways to play golf and enjoy it - is being proficient with a long iron an essential part of Sai-Jin's strategy for playing better golf? If so - my goodness by all means have at it - if not why waste the time and the energy? Why not focus on some other part of the game? If you're an 11 there are lots of strokes to be found without having the spend time perfecting a 210 yard 3 iron.

[sai-jin]

Hmmm... I'm not sure what happened, but for the past 2 rounds, my fades and pushes are almost gone. They only came back when I forcefully try to hit it long.

I hit a lot of draws with all clubs, but now, I added some extra bad shots which are pull draw and hook.

 

I don't feel anything different than usual too... just trying to hit the ball more on the inside and make sure my head stays back. Oh and I fixed my shoulders on address where it's more

parallel, but with more of a left shoulder tilted down.

 

Tried swinging like Nicklaus in that vid and I hit sky shots lol.