Tour balls

[silver & black]

In light of the commercial that says: "what business do you have playing a tour ball?"

 

What are your thoughts on this? I have switched to a tour ball for this season because I love the control it affords around the greens (TP5). Unless you are a raw beginner at the game, why would you have no business playing a tour ball? Even if you are a mid skill player (me) why should you not take advantage of what a tour ball offers in the short game?

[wbealsd]

Exactly, distance "rocks" won't help you in the short game. Unless you lose a few sleeves every round, why not play a quality ball?

[whiskey golf]

I don't use a tour ball right now but I agree with the statement that not all amateur golfers can't play a tour ball. It shouldn't matter if you are pro or not, everyone is different.

[RookieBlue7]

Ill spend my money however I please lol.

[apprenti23]

Many people would benefit more playing non tour balls just for the simple fact that they spin too much off the tee causing missed fairways or distance loss.

 

With that being said- if you can afford spinning $4 balls into the pond, but prefer that soft feel off the putter and chip shots; then who am I to tell you otherwise? Heck I play whatever is free!

[SPY ZINGER]

I thought the issue was most don't have the swing speed to properly compress tour balls and would not take full advantage of the performance benefits. No?

[wbealsd]

I thought the issue was most don't have the swing speed to properly compress tour balls and would not take full advantage of the performance benefits. No?

Titleist would argue that point, as do I. I definitely have a slower swing speed, but I've been testing various golf balls this winter with my GC2 and what I've found is no distance loss and better dispersion with the tour quality balls than the cheaper "distance" balls. While it's snowing (again) today, and I haven't been able to really test the balls on and around real greens, what testing I've been able to do with my wedges indicates that the tour quality ball responds better for the short game, as well. They definitely feel better putting, too.

 

I honestly thought the 2 piece distance balls were the best for my swing speed until I saw the results, but not anymore. I probably DON'T get the FULL benefit of the tour balls, but I get better results with them than I do the cheaper quality balls.

 

Granted, if you lose 2 or 3 sleeves of balls a round, you'll want to play cheap balls, but they're not going to help you improve your game.

[sai-jin]

When I first started playing golf, I remember I didn't know what ball to get, so I grabbed a couple of different brands single sleeves.

It didn't matter at first, since I wasn't striking the ball anyways, so even a range ball was fine.

 

6 months later, I narrowed it down to the Penta TP and V1x, but during "ball fitting" the bridgestone guys told me to get an E6 to eliminate my over the top swing.

Paid $25 for a dozen and not only did I not like the feel of the ball... I was still losing the ball to the right =)

 

So I decided to stay with the Penta TP5 mainly specially after I improved my swing and almost no longer hit balls to the right.

 

Honestly though for an amateur like me personally any ball will be fine, it all comes down to feel and distance.

I'll buy whatever I want with my money as long as it performs good enough for me, tour or non-tour ball.

[Blade]

during "ball fitting" the bridgestone guys told me to get an E6 to eliminate my over the top swing.

I'm assuming you didn't really mean that!

[sai-jin]

I'm assuming you didn't really mean that!

 

I actually meant every word of it... lol . . . I was such a noob at the time that I didn't even know I was going over the top.

[Blade]

I actually meant every word of it...lol . . . I was such a noob at the time that I didn't even know I was going over the top.

No I meant that a ball will never eliminate an over the top swing or have any affect on a swing. Some balls will spin less, slightly reducing the amount of slice from an over the top swing. But they won't fix the swing! No ball will eliminate a slice either. If he said that to you, he was full of it. If you cut across the ball, be it a range ball, E6, or Pro V1, it will slice.

[The Artful Duffer]

Honestly I still buy into a fitting for everything including the ball. I ask just as many questions when it comes to a customer buying a ball as a driver etc. different strokes for different folks. Don't discount the ball as being any less important a piece of equipment than a wedge or driver. All that aside, what you get out of a tour ball of you can compress it is amazing compared to a pinnacle rock. And vice versa. It's all about need vs want. I'd say the majority of players would be better off with a mid range urethane covered pellet $25-$30 range max. With the 4 and 5 layer balls they're overpaying for something they aren't maximizing. But it ain't my money. Play what you want. I just make an educated guess at best. Value is still the name of the game when it comes to the ball. Cost vs benefit. Plain and simple. Just sorry I rambled on as long as I did on the topic. Lolz.

[westy]

I've always found that unless the temperature was above 18c (sorry don't do Fahrenheit) then I was best with a slightly firmer 3 piece - found the bridgestone e6 to be better than most (they are very cheap as well). If th course is soaked as well why on earth would I need a tour ball? I can get anything to stop dead in those conditions!

Once it warms up I'll always try and move to Pro v1x or penta's.

There's a balance between distance, feel, durability and price that's different for everyone.

[apprenti23]

I thought the issue was most don't have the swing speed to properly compress tour balls and would not take full advantage of the performance benefits. No?

 

It's possible that is one issue. However, when is the last time you've seen a compression stamped on a golf ball? Gotta go back to the balata days my friend. There's a reason for this!

 

I still feel that the #1 reason better players choose tour balls is for distance control (NOT DISTANCE) and accuracy. It is for this SAME REASON that trunk slammers shouldn't touch them!

[Kor.A.Door]

My take is that everyone can benefit from a tour ball, but that doesn't mean that everyone should. There are benefits to every type of ball for every type of player. I play the callaway tour balls, black, but that doesn't mean that I couldn't benefit from some lesser balls as well, I think it really comes down to what gives you the best balance for all facets of the game.

Distance, feel, control----which ball gives ME the best of all of these, the tour ball if compressed properly can give incredible distance, control, and feel around the green, but maybe I can't compress the ball enough, that doesn't mean that ball won't work, it just means it may not be the best of what I am looking for, if everyone was the same there would only be one type of ball, I will not get fitted for a ball, because there is too much biased involved, you have to play different balls for yourself, and find one you like, there are very good alternative balls out there that perform very close to the tour ball, that might work better for your game. Noodle, nxt, hx hot, and many more. Try them out,

Another thing is to choose a ball based on the style you like to play, if you like to bump and run around the greens, a tour ball may not be best for that, doesn't mean it won't work, but a distance ball will probably roll out better. These are all things to consider when purchasing a ball.

The bottom line is to find a ball that works for your game, and don't let biased commercialism tell you what will work for you.

[wbealsd]

Those are good points Lefty, I don't want to give the impression there's only ONE ball everyone should play, nor that budget isn't a consideration for all of us. Most ball fittings are going to be sponsored by a vendor, so their bias is ALWAYS going to be for one of their balls - lol

 

I agree, you should try a lot of different balls to find out what works for YOU, just don't limit your choices due to your swing speed and compression theories.

 

Once you find your gamer ball, there's a couple of handy links to find similar balls and one can also save some cash by purchasing recycled balls (but I don't recommend RE-FINISHED balls).

 

http://www.golfballselector.com/pdf/GBS_CompressionHardness_Test_050112_v9.12.pdf

 

http://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf

[Kor.A.Door]

Those are good points Lefty, I don't want to give the impression there's only ONE ball everyone should play, nor that budget isn't a consideration for all of us. Most ball fittings are going to be sponsored by a vendor, so their bias is ALWAYS going to be for one of their balls - lol

 

I agree, you should try a lot of different balls to find out what works for YOU, just don't limit your choices due to your swing speed and compression theories.

 

Once you find your gamer ball, there's a couple of handy links to find similar balls and one can also save some cash by purchasing recycled balls (but I don't recommend RE-FINISHED balls).

 

http://www.golfballselector.com/pdf/GBS_CompressionHardness_Test_050112_v9.12.pdf

 

http://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf

There is a store near me that has recycled balls that I can pick up pretty cheap, those are the ones I pick to try out, they seek the tour balls for 20 and if you are picky and take your time you can find some like new in the bins, and they let you mix and match so you can get Bridgestone, callaway, Nike, TM, srixon, and any others that you can think of and make a dozen, find the one you like and then buy a new dozen if you want. I really like the hx hot from the tee and of the long irons, but the greens I play regularly are not very receptive, so I need the tour type ball to slow the ball down coming into the green, these greens are almost impossible to stop a ball on, so you need to have max spin coming in, and even then if you miss a little you are off the back. I honestly would play more of a distance ball if the greens would allow it.

[sai-jin]

No I meant that a ball will never eliminate an over the top swing or have any affect on a swing. Some balls will spin less, slightly reducing the amount of slice from an over the top swing. But they won't fix the swing! No ball will eliminate a slice either. If he said that to you, he was full of it. If you cut across the ball, be it a range ball, E6, or Pro V1, it will slice.

 

 

Yep, I found out the hard way. I still remember that day I was rather excited about the E6... first tee, first shot... I swung as hard as I could and sliced the ball... ball gone. LOL.

 

But I remember the sales guy told me that that ball will keep spin to the minimum and not slice anymore.

[revkev]

Many people would benefit more playing non tour balls just for the simple fact that they spin too much off the tee causing missed fairways or distance loss.

 

With that being said- if you can afford spinning $4 balls into the pond, but prefer that soft feel off the putter and chip shots; then who am I to tell you otherwise? Heck I play whatever is free!

 

 

With all due respect I disagree with the first part of this comment. It is the party line for Srixon and I've repeatedly asked them to send me their data that demonstrates that a 10 handicapper gets enough greater spin on a tour ball than a non-tour ball to truly justify their claims. I've yet to see it.

 

I'm looking for hard evidence in the form of data and not opinion so please unless you have the data and you can explain how many yards 200 mph of spin rate means when its turned on its axis please don't - please - I'll get upset and I don't want to get upset.

 

I am very upset with Srixon and frankly won't purchase their products until they respond even if its to say -

"Thanks for your inquiry but we don't give our data out to anyone."

 

Here's what I know - when tests are done on all ball types there is very little difference in spin rates between tour balls that are designed specifically to reduce spin rates and non-tour balls off the driver. In fact sometimes the tour balls spin less off of a middle iron than their non-tour counter parts although once you get to short irons and part shots a really difference in spin rate surfaces.

 

In regards to what ball to use there's a very simple test to use - buy some sample size packages and test them for yourself to see which works best for your game. We all have budgets, we all differing abilities and launch angles and swing paths - what works for me may not work for you and visa versa.

 

For me - I go with last year's Pro VIx ball from whomever has it cheapest (except Srixon - won't even try their balls at this point.) Right now I'm playing either the Bridgestone B330 RX (because I got a whole bunch for free) or the Taylor Made Penta TP 5 (because I prefer them and got 2 dozen for $49.99)

 

If I were solely concerned with distance I would use a 2 piecer

 

I would never use any of those middle model balls - the 2 piecers are way, way longer and neither spin very well so I'd take the distance if I were going that route.

[apprenti23]

4/28 I'll see what kind of data I can get for you! That's our first demo day of the season.

[silver & black]

Since I switched to a tour ball for this season, I have not noticed any appreciable difference in performance off the driver. The real difference has been from 100 yds. and closer. Maybe it's the new wedges (SM4's),I don't know, but I sure like the way I can get the ball to check up on the greens.

 

I was previously playing Bridgestone E6's and Titleist NXT Tours. I liked both equally well..... with a slight nod to the NXT's. I was intrigued with the Penta TP5 so, I decided to give it a try this season. I'm convinced that it is a superior ball to the other two. I realize I'm a mid capper. I realize that I have a ways to go before I'm considered a "better" player, but I still think the Penta is a ball that can help lower my scores for no other reason than I like the way it feels and performs in the short game.

 

Now comes the part where I have to chime in on price vs. performance. Although I really prefer the performance and "feel" of the Penta over the other two, I must acknowledge that I probably (at this point) lose too many balls for the price of the Pentas, to keep using them. I need to get a bit better before I can justify the cost of the tour ball to play them all the time.

[wbealsd]

Look for recycled Pentas and check those links I posted above for other balls that are close to the specs. I seldom play new golf balls unless they're part of a prize or giveaway, anymore. I think the tour quality balls give me a better shot dispersion, but agree 100% with you about the difference in the short game.

[RookieBlue7]

A tour level ball that's priced like a 2 piece? The MG Tour C4 from Master Grip. They purchased the rights and patent to the Hogan Tour Deep and its that ball they're selling at $19.99 a dozen. Best of both worlds for the budget conscious.

 

I, personally, bought 100 5A grade Penta TP's (the original Penta). It's my favorite ball and I get them for the right price buying previously loved ones (5A are one hitter quitters).

[Paul S]

I would love to get my hands on a dozen balatas. I know that I've hit them before, but it would have been when I was a kid and didn't know up from down. For now though, just as with shafts, I don't have an ego about playing a certain level of compression or flex. I like the soft feel of the Wilson Staff Duos, but I don't have enough rounds with them to compare to anything. I know what I would value though. I would rather hit a shorter ball with consistent distance over a ball that goes as far as possible. I want spin too. In most sports that involve player-influenced spin (e.g. tennis), I prefer to play a spin game. In golf, I have been spending a lot of time on teaching myself to control the draw/cut spin because I'm used to the spin game being more controlled.

 

I don't like how the Bridgestone commercial almost admonishes players. I think that ball fitting is just as important as any other component fitting; however, the rules are not so cut-and-dried as they seem.

 

Being a bit on the traditionalist side of the game though, I would love to see the ball technology dialed back to the old balata balls. Or... What if the ball were uniform as in any other sport with a ball? That would be fun to watch.

 

Paul

[whiskey golf]

I've started playing the Bridgestone e5's and they are pretty good. They got the urethane cover so they have a soft feel and get a little more spin than the e6's.

[RoverRick]

For several years now I have done a test to find the ball I played. During the week with no one else around I would play two or three different balls side by side and keep track of the score with each ball. I found that all tour balls score better for me than non tour balls. 3.5 strokes per round.

 

Distance was unimportant. It is about score. I have found that some do better uncertain areas but score is what I base my decision on and therefore there are only three balls that I play and have a preference in them.

[RoverRick]

I notice when my highcapper friends are playing tour balls. I get so used to seeing them hit the green and roll another 20' I am shocked when one hits the short that checks up near the hole.

 

I always look and they will be playing some Pro V they found and will play great for a few holes then lose it and then I can tell when that ball is gone.

[JBones]

A tour level ball that's priced like a 2 piece? The MG Tour C4 from Master Grip. They purchased the rights and patent to the Hogan Tour Deep and its that ball they're selling at $19.99 a dozen. Best of both worlds for the budget conscious.

I'm going to second this. For me, they perform almost identical to the ProV1X and at the price, you can't beat them.

[revkev]

What about Titleist and their bullsh*t marketing mantra, "Everybody should play a Tour ball"?

 

Where's their "data?"

 

And some irrelevent stupid-ass colored graphs don't count.

 

HaHa. it's all a game, just like the one that we play, depending on who's ball that we buy.

 

Science?

 

Data?

 

Paleeeeeeeeeeeze, LMAO

 

One wants to sell ya "Tour" balls.

 

The other wants to sell ya "non-Tour" balls.

 

Watcha gonna do when the man talks to you?

 

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

Hey Richard I hope you're feeling well. The difference between Titleist and Srixon is that if you email Titleist they will respond that they received your email and then get back to you by sending more data than just the pie charts. What their data shows is that their testers hit the Pro VIx longer than any of the other balls in their line. It's only about 3 yards longer though. That squares with my game at least - I hit that type of ball farther than anything other than 2 piece rocks - I hit some of but not all of those 2 piece rocks 5-10 yards longer than the Pro VIx balls.

 

It's also pretty consistent with the other data that you see. Frankly I don't see any marked difference between balls in my ability or lack there of to curve them with a driver. That makes sense too - all modern golf balls are designed to reduce driver spin - they actually work - Think of what Srixon is saying for a moment by its advertising - "OUR TOUR BALLS DON'T WORK."

 

I'll appreciate the data Apr. Here's what I'm looking for - spin rates off the driver for several mid-handicappers head to head, tour ball vs. faux tour ball (titleist nxt types). My guess is those spin rates will be almost identical and if they are Srixon is full of it or else their tour balls are indeed different from anyone elses.

 

I'd also love to know and am guessing that someone here (attention JMiller) can answer the question what does 200 mph of spin rate equate to when the ball is being turned on its axis (what many people call side spin.) When do we notice an appreciable difference in curvature do to excess spin rates - that would be a interesting factoid too.

 

It would of course be in titelist et al's best interest to only sell their tour level ball but we've provided many different ways to get tour level balls without paying tour level price - I always use a tour level ball and never pay tour level price - I had 4 dozen balls for use this season and paid a grand total of $50 for them - they are all new balls - granted I won two dozen of them but those opportunities are out there as are many other ways to pay less than retail if you are willing to play with yesterday's news.

 

Oh yeah the balata ball that someone mentioned. What are you wacked? (just kidding) - 15 yards shorter and that was on a solid hit - if you miss hit them the distance and accuracy loss was ridiculous. It would take an entire season to get used to that amount of spin around the green again too. The only thing I miss there is how ridiculously easy it was to get those things to curve around a corner or a tree when you were in trouble off the tee. I guess I'm wondering why we'd worry about rolling back the ball for 99 percent of golfers - even if you gave us balls that were illegal and went 10 yards longer we'd still struggle to reduce our handicaps and we arent' the ones that are causing classic courses to become obsolete. I'd make the pros play a uniform ball - but good luck getting that one past the OEM lobbying machine.

[apprenti23]

BTW I miss-spoke earlier- i meant to say off the tee AND with the irons... obviously that's the most important thing...