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Since I switched to a tour ball for this season, I have not noticed any appreciable difference in performance off the driver. The real difference has been from 100 yds. and closer. Maybe it's the new wedges (SM4's),I don't know, but I sure like the way I can get the ball to check up on the greens.

 

I was previously playing Bridgestone E6's and Titleist NXT Tours. I liked both equally well..... with a slight nod to the NXT's. I was intrigued with the Penta TP5 so, I decided to give it a try this season. I'm convinced that it is a superior ball to the other two. I realize I'm a mid capper. I realize that I have a ways to go before I'm considered a "better" player, but I still think the Penta is a ball that can help lower my scores for no other reason than I like the way it feels and performs in the short game.

 

Now comes the part where I have to chime in on price vs. performance. Although I really prefer the performance and "feel" of the Penta over the other two, I must acknowledge that I probably (at this point) lose too many balls for the price of the Pentas, to keep using them. I need to get a bit better before I can justify the cost of the tour ball to play them all the time.

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Look for recycled Pentas and check those links I posted above for other balls that are close to the specs. I seldom play new golf balls unless they're part of a prize or giveaway, anymore. I think the tour quality balls give me a better shot dispersion, but agree 100% with you about the difference in the short game.

What's In The Bag

Driver :titelist-small:

Titleist 913 D2 10.5* (set to 9.75* / Neutral) 46" Paderson KINETIXX Kevlar Green - R

Fairway Wood

Tom Wishon 949 MC 16.5* Fujikura Speeder 569-A

Hybrid  :cleveland-small: Hibore 22* Aldila VS Proto Blue

Irons  :ping-small: G series 5-P

Wedges :ping-small:Glide 54* SS / 60* TS - SCOR 53*

Putter     :nike-small: Nike Method 001 / P2 Reflex grip 35"

Ball

Master Grip Tour C4

Bag

Datrek DG Lite  

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A tour level ball that's priced like a 2 piece? The MG Tour C4 from Master Grip. They purchased the rights and patent to the Hogan Tour Deep and its that ball they're selling at $19.99 a dozen. Best of both worlds for the budget conscious.

 

I, personally, bought 100 5A grade Penta TP's (the original Penta). It's my favorite ball and I get them for the right price buying previously loved ones (5A are one hitter quitters).

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I would love to get my hands on a dozen balatas. I know that I've hit them before, but it would have been when I was a kid and didn't know up from down. For now though, just as with shafts, I don't have an ego about playing a certain level of compression or flex. I like the soft feel of the Wilson Staff Duos, but I don't have enough rounds with them to compare to anything. I know what I would value though. I would rather hit a shorter ball with consistent distance over a ball that goes as far as possible. I want spin too. In most sports that involve player-influenced spin (e.g. tennis), I prefer to play a spin game. In golf, I have been spending a lot of time on teaching myself to control the draw/cut spin because I'm used to the spin game being more controlled.

 

I don't like how the Bridgestone commercial almost admonishes players. I think that ball fitting is just as important as any other component fitting; however, the rules are not so cut-and-dried as they seem.

 

Being a bit on the traditionalist side of the game though, I would love to see the ball technology dialed back to the old balata balls. Or... What if the ball were uniform as in any other sport with a ball? That would be fun to watch.

 

Paul

Driver: TaylorMade R9 9.5* with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft

Fairway: TaylorMade R9 TP 13* with Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ-st X flex

 

UtilityWilson Staff FYbrid 19.5* Aldila RIP Sigma Stiff

 

Irons: Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 KBS Tour X flex 4-pw (soft-stepped)

Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour TC 50* (standard grind, bent to 51*) TT DG Spinner, 56* and 60* (tour grinds, bent to 55* and 59*) Dynamic Gold Wedge flex

Putter: Yes! Abbie Tour Forged Pro Series 33" 

Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour, Maxfli U4

 

Bag: Wilson Staff NeXus 100th Anniversary carry bag

 

Backup Irons: Wilson Staff FG-17 Tour Blades with TT Dynamic Stiff 3-PW

 

Backup Utility: Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron TT Dynamic Gold R300

 

Backup Putter: Pro Gear CG 100 33" (Pro Gear is what turned into Yes!)

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For several years now I have done a test to find the ball I played. During the week with no one else around I would play two or three different balls side by side and keep track of the score with each ball. I found that all tour balls score better for me than non tour balls. 3.5 strokes per round.

 

Distance was unimportant. It is about score. I have found that some do better uncertain areas but score is what I base my decision on and therefore there are only three balls that I play and have a preference in them.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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I notice when my highcapper friends are playing tour balls. I get so used to seeing them hit the green and roll another 20' I am shocked when one hits the short that checks up near the hole.

 

I always look and they will be playing some Pro V they found and will play great for a few holes then lose it and then I can tell when that ball is gone.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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A tour level ball that's priced like a 2 piece? The MG Tour C4 from Master Grip. They purchased the rights and patent to the Hogan Tour Deep and its that ball they're selling at $19.99 a dozen. Best of both worlds for the budget conscious.

I'm going to second this. For me, they perform almost identical to the ProV1X and at the price, you can't beat them.

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What about Titleist and their bullsh*t marketing mantra, "Everybody should play a Tour ball"?

 

Where's their "data?"

 

And some irrelevent stupid-ass colored graphs don't count.

 

HaHa. it's all a game, just like the one that we play, depending on who's ball that we buy.

 

Science?

 

Data?

 

Paleeeeeeeeeeeze, LMAO B)

 

One wants to sell ya "Tour" balls.

 

The other wants to sell ya "non-Tour" balls.

 

Watcha gonna do when the man talks to you?

 

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

:mizuno-small:

 

Hey Richard I hope you're feeling well. The difference between Titleist and Srixon is that if you email Titleist they will respond that they received your email and then get back to you by sending more data than just the pie charts. What their data shows is that their testers hit the Pro VIx longer than any of the other balls in their line. It's only about 3 yards longer though. That squares with my game at least - I hit that type of ball farther than anything other than 2 piece rocks - I hit some of but not all of those 2 piece rocks 5-10 yards longer than the Pro VIx balls.

 

It's also pretty consistent with the other data that you see. Frankly I don't see any marked difference between balls in my ability or lack there of to curve them with a driver. That makes sense too - all modern golf balls are designed to reduce driver spin - they actually work - Think of what Srixon is saying for a moment by its advertising - "OUR TOUR BALLS DON'T WORK."

 

I'll appreciate the data Apr. Here's what I'm looking for - spin rates off the driver for several mid-handicappers head to head, tour ball vs. faux tour ball (titleist nxt types). My guess is those spin rates will be almost identical and if they are Srixon is full of it or else their tour balls are indeed different from anyone elses.

 

I'd also love to know and am guessing that someone here (attention JMiller) can answer the question what does 200 mph of spin rate equate to when the ball is being turned on its axis (what many people call side spin.) When do we notice an appreciable difference in curvature do to excess spin rates - that would be a interesting factoid too.

 

It would of course be in titelist et al's best interest to only sell their tour level ball but we've provided many different ways to get tour level balls without paying tour level price - I always use a tour level ball and never pay tour level price - I had 4 dozen balls for use this season and paid a grand total of $50 for them - they are all new balls - granted I won two dozen of them but those opportunities are out there as are many other ways to pay less than retail if you are willing to play with yesterday's news.

 

Oh yeah the balata ball that someone mentioned. What are you wacked? (just kidding) - 15 yards shorter and that was on a solid hit - if you miss hit them the distance and accuracy loss was ridiculous. It would take an entire season to get used to that amount of spin around the green again too. The only thing I miss there is how ridiculously easy it was to get those things to curve around a corner or a tree when you were in trouble off the tee. I guess I'm wondering why we'd worry about rolling back the ball for 99 percent of golfers - even if you gave us balls that were illegal and went 10 yards longer we'd still struggle to reduce our handicaps and we arent' the ones that are causing classic courses to become obsolete. I'd make the pros play a uniform ball - but good luck getting that one past the OEM lobbying machine.

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Your point is well taken and I considered it as I wrote - That's why I wish MGS would settle this thing with a test.

 

In the end just take the stupid balls out on the course and try them for yourself. I've done this so many times its ridiculous. What do I hope to find? The magic ball that goes 25 yards farther. Where will I find it? In the gym - I've had some results there already.

 

As far as on course testing its the same thing every single time - I don't know why I bother any more.

 

The argument I never see advanced and one that I think might be quite valid visa a vie a tour ball vs. the midline ones is that additional spin does introduce another factor into the mix around the green. It's great when you know how to apply it consistently so that it can be used - it can be a problem if you don't. I'd like to see that tested as well.

 

Are the MGS guys listening?

 

A generic ball test would really be nice about now. This topic comes up all the time.

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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BTW I miss-spoke earlier- i meant to say off the tee AND with the irons... obviously that's the most important thing...

 

 

Not according to Srixon. :)

 

I do appreciate your response and would love to see the results - I think that they will say that there is no difference in spin rates off the driver for a particular driver or very little difference, very little difference with middle irons, more spin on the tour ball starting around the 8 iron with the gap widdening as they get closer to the green.

 

I've seen enough tests to believe that's what you'll find.

 

Now now that all applies to an individuals game is another question altogether.

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Rev,

MGS did do a test on spin off of a wedge, I believe. Might've been a groove wear test though. I know I mentioned it to Colt once before about seeing if they could do a labs on groove wear and it's effect on spin. So that might've been what was tested.

 

Regardless, one big thing about Titleist is that the guy that does most of their testing is scientific about it and used to be independent (now their head of research in ball development) and that's Dr. William Gobush (aka Bill Gobush). He has several publications from his independent days that are available if you have a password through a college to get to the places the research is located. I used to have a copy of the PDF file from such publication that was related to groove spin and the performance of the golf ball at impact that related to how grooves effected spin. That article was called "Spin and the Inner Working of a Golf Ball" that was published in Golf The Scientific Way as a compilation of both he and Alistair Cochran's work. Bill is considered an expert in measuring and modeling golf ball behavior. That article talks about the relationship of both the cover material and the core material and how variances can effect spin, etc. (And if any of you MGS guys have access to that PDF, it'd be AWESOME if you guys could post it here, as it'd answer lots of questions that all of us have about golfballs, etc. LOL. And you'd be the only site on the net that has published it. Plus it's been a long time since I've read it and it's always good to refresh the old memory bank, lol).

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I notice when my highcapper friends are playing tour balls. I get so used to seeing them hit the green and roll another 20' I am shocked when one hits the short that checks up near the hole.

 

I always look and they will be playing some Pro V they found and will play great for a few holes then lose it and then I can tell when that ball is gone.

And they CAN'T?? - ROFLMAO!! :P

What's In The Bag

Driver :titelist-small:

Titleist 913 D2 10.5* (set to 9.75* / Neutral) 46" Paderson KINETIXX Kevlar Green - R

Fairway Wood

Tom Wishon 949 MC 16.5* Fujikura Speeder 569-A

Hybrid  :cleveland-small: Hibore 22* Aldila VS Proto Blue

Irons  :ping-small: G series 5-P

Wedges :ping-small:Glide 54* SS / 60* TS - SCOR 53*

Putter     :nike-small: Nike Method 001 / P2 Reflex grip 35"

Ball

Master Grip Tour C4

Bag

Datrek DG Lite  

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I like playing proV1's, but I am the guy who will play the same two balls for as many rounds as I can. They get so scuffed up and dirty you can hardly tell what kind of balls they are any more hehehe

But, they still seem to work no matter how hacked up they get... So, I find that even though they are a bit expensive at first, after the fourth round, they are a bargain...

:callaway-small: MavriK Sub Zero 9* on EvenFlow RipTide 6.0 50g

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:cobra-small: F8 5/6 wood on Aldila NxT GEN MLT R

:Hogan: Combo iron set -8,9,per Icon 5,6,7 PtxPro 4-UiHi on Recoil 780 ES f4 Stiff shafts (best clubs ever)

:benhogan-small: Equalizer 50°, 54°, 60° wedges on Recoil 780 f4

 :EVNROLL: ER3 34”

:titelist-small: ProV1x

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 shoes

 

 

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I like playing proV1's, but I am the guy who will play the same two balls for as many rounds as I can. They get so scuffed up and dirty you can hardly tell what kind of balls they are any more hehehe

But, they still seem to work no matter how hacked up they get... So, I find that even though they are a bit expensive at first, after the fourth round, they are a bargain...

 

That's true but to reiterate if you want to play tour level balls you can find them for mid-range ball prices - you just have to be willing to play a model that's been discontinued and is on clearance or one of the Dick's models that have received great reviews here.

 

Back to Rookies post - you directed me to that research a number of years back and I read it - very complex of course - I'm not sure that it gives us exactly what we want for this discussion but its a great, interesting and provacative read.

 

I think there's data out there that proves Srixon wrong - It's pretty consistent across the other OEM's even if they are only testing their product. The tour level ball and the midline ball produce similar spin and launch characteristics off the driver - within 200 RPM's per golfer - The midline ball actually spins a bit more with the middle irons than the proline ball - again this is minimal - once you get to the 8 iron and down the two balls seperate to the point that there is no comparison on half wedge shots.

 

In my own testing I've yet to find a midline ball that I can hit as far as a tour level ball - this is relevent to middle handicappers because I have a moderate swing speed (mid 90's at best.) Many mid-handicappers have a faster swing speed than I do and if we both hit our best drive they will knock it past me - I'm guessing my average drive is longer than there's because I'm way more consistent - that and my short game are why I'm a low handicapper. Now mind you this distance gap off the tee is minimal - 3 to 5 yards - however it proves the point at least for my game. I'm no more or less accurate with the tour ball off the tee but I would emphasize that I am very accurate off the tee - I average 11 fairways a round. I also struggle with too much spin off the driver although my current driver seems to have helped with that problem immensly (that's what a $500 fitting will buy you - thanks Taylor Made and MGS.)

 

It doesn't matter what ball I use in the middle part of the bag - they all perform about the same, stop the same or don't depending upon the conditions of the greens I'm playing on. And of course there is no comparison the closer I get to the green where I make my living so to speak.

 

Having written all that I could see where a midline ball might be beneficial for some golfers depending upon their game (not their budget). It would eliminate a whole range and choice process of shots around the green - you would always have to either play for the ball to run out or use trajectory (flop type shots) to stop it quicker.

 

That's why I'm writing that I think I know the answers the data will show but how that data applies to an individuals game is another matter altogether. There would be an adjustment period in the short game for someone who is not accustomed to playing a tour ball.

 

Oh did I mention I will not use a Srixon/Cleveland product until they have the courtesy to reply to one of my emails? I will also never purchase anything from Jim Mclean - I had a debate about a matter four or five years ago that sent me on a quest which included sending emails to Frank Thomas, Dave Pelz and Mclean - Thomas and Plez both replied same day, Thomas called me himself and I spoke to a Pelz guy for over an hour - didn't hear boo from Mclean.

 

In my world customer service matters.

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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I don't have the years of experience that many of you do, this being the start of my 3rd year playing. I took some lessons at the start of last season, and got my scoring average down to the mid-90's. I'm taking another series of lessons, and am really excited with the results so far. The half-life of a golf ball in my possession used to be about 2 holes when I first started playing, so I played whatever I found or with whatever sleeve I got at an outing. Yikes. Now that I can play a couple of rounds with the same ball, I've ventured into playing a better quality ball, and I have to say that I agree with revkev that driver mistakes are no different than with the cheap ball, but the short game is where the high quality ball shines.

 

I played at Long Island National this past Sunday with a friend (he's around a 10 HC), and he hits his drives past me consistently (his Ping i20 is much longer than the r7 Quad he had last year). Well, it was so windy and cold at 7:30 a.m. when we went to sign in on Sunday, that the first thing the guy on duty in the pro shop asked when we walked in was whether we wanted to cancel. Well, we were going to play of course, and it was so wide open that they even let us walk. :D Anyway, my friend decided to buy the cheapest box of balls in the pro shop (15 Pinnacles) so he wouldn't be donating his Titleists to the water and fescue. Being less intelligent, I decided to play my Penta TP5's. I did lose two in the water (11 and 13), but on the holes where we were both in the fairway, I was getting it past him by quite a bit. It was hard spinning anything on the greens, but his loss of distance was quite noticeable.

<p>In my bag: Ping G LS Tec 9* Tour 65 Stiff, Cobra F8 3-4 wood HZRDUS Yellow 6.0, Calloway 21* X Forged Utility iron (steel stiff), Ping G30 white dot 4-9 Stiff 110 gm KBS tours  Scor 48,52,56,60 Wedges, Nike Method Core MC3</p><p>

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Crikey you don't want to wind revkev up do you golf manufacturers? Customer service is damned important though and we should be tough on poor performance.

Interestingly I'm a mid 90mph swing speed player off 9 and I see little difference off the tee with most balls (more run in dry conditions with certain balls, possibly due to less spin - who knows).

As I said a few pages ago its a formula for each player of playing characteristics versus price; I use Bridgestone e6's at the moment because I like the way they play and they're costing me less than 20 bucks (yep bucks I'm trying to fit in!) a dozen. They last 27 holes minimum (when not in ponds, forests, car parks etc) as well and are playable at the end of that. With the I20 irons they spin a bit as well!

But it's taken me years to find an alternative to tour balls I'm happy with in the winter; hated nxt tours, never liked srixons, kind of liked Wilsons when I could get them.

A thought for you; how many average to poor players hit the ball past the flag? Not many I reckon, they are normally short. More spin going to help them? I doubt it - perhaps a ball that releases a few feet more might help?

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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Crikey you don't want to wind revkev up do you golf manufacturers? Customer service is damned important though and we should be tough on poor performance.

Interestingly I'm a mid 90mph swing speed player off 9 and I see little difference off the tee with most balls (more run in dry conditions with certain balls, possibly due to less spin - who knows).

As I said a few pages ago its a formula for each player of playing characteristics versus price; I use Bridgestone e6's at the moment because I like the way they play and they're costing me less than 20 bucks (yep bucks I'm trying to fit in!) a dozen. They last 27 holes minimum (when not in ponds, forests, car parks etc) as well and are playable at the end of that. With the I20 irons they spin a bit as well!

But it's taken me years to find an alternative to tour balls I'm happy with in the winter; hated nxt tours, never liked srixons, kind of liked Wilsons when I could get them.

A thought for you; how many average to poor players hit the ball past the flag? Not many I reckon, they are normally short. More spin going to help them? I doubt it - perhaps a ball that releases a few feet more might help?

 

Right on point IMO - if you can't force yourself to take more club why not get the ball to do it for you with the release. Frankly that was an issue I had in the old balata days - I was used to the ball releasing and when I'd switch to balata I'd never get it to the pin. Now its normally hit and stop so I just need to know my carry distances and I'm good to go.

 

At any rate I really do mean it when I write that there are reasons beyond distance or performance off the driver to select a non-tour ball and there are factors that each person must consider when he or she selects a ball. I've actually learned that by carefully considering what our mid-handicappers have written on these ball threads. By now I think I can predict what any ball I buy will do based on its construction - what I can't say is whether its the best ball for Westy or anyone else here - only you know that - if you tell me what you want your ball to do I can make a recommendation or two but you're still going to have to try it for yourself. My issue is with a statement that makes no sense based on data I've seen and experience I've had trying balls out for myself. No one here seems to be doing that. Srixon is and even though I like Titleist and TMag's balls and they are always responsive they are in a way too by making the claim that their Tour ball is for everyone. Westy gives a scenario where its not or at least a compelling reason why its not. I'll add one too - what if my course primarily allows for bump and runs around the green - while you can play those shots with tour balls they are easier to play with non-tour balls.

 

 

 

Have to say I'm kind of surprised that a Pro VI would go farther than a Pinnacle under any conditions - perhaps your friend was having a bad hair day. Regardless welcome to the forums LI Rich - a neighbor from across the Sound - I grew up in CT.

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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