equipment change leading to mental game problems?

[LT59]

Hey everyone, I went through an equipment change over the winter by switching from my TM RAC MB TP irons with rifle 6.5's to Adams MB2 with KBS tour x. I played the TaylorMades for literally 10 years and KNEW 100% what club to grab from what yardage and committed and took a confident stroke. However with my MB2's the lofts are 2* stronger from the 6i through the PW and I am now hitting my clubs further than I have for the past decade by about 10 yards a club. So far I feel this has created confusion in my game on the mental side as before when I walked up to a ball that was 150 from the pin I grabbed my 8i and went at it and now i'm grabbing my 9i and feeling uncomfortable with what I have in my hand vs the distance to the pin, I'm not committing to the shot and therefor not accelerating through the shot and coming up short or putting more on it and going long.

 

What I have been considering is bending my current clubs to match my prior set but i'm not sure if the added distance will be enough of a helping factor once i get the numbers finalized in my head or not. I feel that in my mind I will play with more comfort and confidence if I match my previous irons. What are your thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

LT

[whiskey golf]

I would go with the closest possible mimic of your Taylormade irons because if you're losing confidence with the new irons, you might as well have stuck with the old ones but if that isn't a option then I would match the specs as close as I could.

[LT59]

RP and Whiskey I agree with you both it's just one of those situations where hearing it from others helps in the decision making process haha. Now i just need to decide what to bag, my SCOR 49 or the MB2 P that will be 48 after my loft adjustments are made when I go in to work tomorrow.

 

LT

[whiskey golf]

RP and Whiskey I agree with you both it's just one of those situations where hearing it from others helps in the decision making process haha. Now i just need to decide what to bag, my SCOR 49 or the MB2 P that will be 48 after my loft adjustments are made when I go in to work tomorrow.

 

LT

 

That's what this forum is for, to get advice with these situations. As for the wedges, I guess it would be what would fit the gap better and what plays better.

[Maverickping]

Myself, I would give it a little time as you were in a comfort zone and now you are out of it. I went from playing PIng ISI-Becu for roughly 12 years to Miura CB and was lost for a while but now I am very pleased. It was just an adjustment period that I had to deal with.

[JMiller]

Hey everyone, I went through an equipment change over the winter by switching from my TM RAC MB TP irons with rifle 6.5's to Adams MB2 with KBS tour x.

The offsets can highly effect how much the face gets closed at impact by a little, obviously it doesn't sound like a lot but even a 1mm is a big difference in ball flight IMHO. You are looking at a blade that has about the same amount of offset as a lot of Game Improvement irons, personally I would hook the absolute s*** out of one regardless of shaft.

 

I have found in my personal experience that the PX line FEELs VERY HARSH, about a 1/2 flex stiffer then it really plays. The KBS Line is the exact opposite they FEEL like they are a 1/2 flex softer then they really are. So a PX 6.5 FEELs like a 7.0 and at Tour X FEELs more like a 6.5, not to mention that the KBS C-Taper is more comparable to the PX line up then the Tour line is. Just the design of the C-Taper is more a low to mid / low spin shaft, the PX is low to mid launch low spin shaft as well. The KBS Tour is more a mid launch mid spin shaft. You distance increase on the MB2 could be coming from a combination of 2* stronger and a shaft that launches the ball at the same height as your old irons would with weaker lofts.

 

 

I wrote a big MB review about a year ago and it has specifications and my thoughts on a lot of different blades when I was searching and testing to find a set. The original is here >> http://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/5458-muscleback-iron-review/

 

Here are the specs that I have listed in comparison to my AP2s I used to play back then...

CLUB    LOFT    LIE    OFFSET    LENGTH    BOUNCE

Consistent Offset Models
Adams Idea Pro MB (1.5mm converted to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.059"    39.00"      IDK
4    24    61.0    0.059"    38.50"      IDK
5    27    61.5    0.059"    38.00"      IDK
6    31    62.0    0.059"    37.50"      IDK
7    35    62.5    0.059"    37.00"      IDK
8    39    63.0    0.059"    36.50"      IDK
9    43    63.5    0.059"    36.00"      IDK
P    47    64.0    0.059"    35.50"      IDK

Progressive Offset Models
Wilson Staff FG62
3    21    59.5    0.095"    39.25"      4.5
4    24    60.0    0.092"    38.75"      5.0
5    27    61.0    0.089"    38.25"      5.5
6    31    61.5    0.086"    37.75"      6.0
7    35    62.0    0.083"    37.25"      6.5
8    39    63.0    0.080"    36.75"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.077"    36.25"      7.5
P    47    64.0    0.074"    35.75"      8.0

Mizuno MP-69
3    21    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      2.0
5    27    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      2.0
6    30    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      3.0
7    34    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      3.0
8    38    62.0    0.102"    36.25"      4.0
9    42    62.5    0.102"    35.75"      5.0
P    46    63.0    0.094"    35.30"      6.0

Mizuno MP-68
3    21    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      2.0
5    27    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      2.0
6    31    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      3.0
7    35    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      3.0
8    39    62.0    0.102"    36.25"      4.0
9    43    62.5    0.102"    35.75"      5.0
P    47    63.0    0.094"    35.30"      6.0

Mizuno MP-67
3    22    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      3.0
4    25    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      3.0
5    28    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      4.0
6    32    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      4.0
7    36    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      4.0
8    40    62.0    0.110"    36.25"      5.0
9    44    62.5    0.100"    35.75"      6.0
P    48    63.0    0.100"    35.50"      7.0

Nike VR Pro Blade
3    21    59.0    0.115"    39.00"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.100"    38.50"      3.0
5    27    61.0    0.090"    38.00"      4.0
6    31    62.0    0.085"    37.50"      5.0
7    35    62.5    0.080"    37.00"      6.0
8    39    63.0    0.070"    36.50"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.060"    36.00"      8.0
P    47    64.0    0.060"    35.75"      9.0

Titleist Muscle Back (MB)
3    21    60.0    0.125"    39.00"      2.0
4    24    61.0    0.120"    38.50"      3.0
5    27    62.0    0.115"    38.00"      4.0
6    31    62.5    0.110"    37.50"      4.5
7    35    63.0    0.100"    37.00"      5.0
8    39    63.5    0.090"    36.50"      6.0
9    43    64.0    0.080"    36.00"      7.0
P    47    64.0    0.075"    35.75"      8.0

Adams Idea Pro MB2 (given in mm I converted it to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.180"    39.00"      0.7
4    24    61.0    0.168"    38.50"      1.7
5    27    61.5    0.156"    38.00"      2.5
6    30    62.0    0.144"    37.50"      3.4
7    34    62.5    0.132"    37.00"      4.2
8    38    63.0    0.120"    36.50"      5.2
9    42    63.5    0.108"    36.00"      6.0
P    46    64.0    0.096"    35.50"      6.5

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Titleist AP2 (2008) --> http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/irons/2008ap2.asp
3    21    60.0    0.160"    39.00"      0.0
4    24    61.0    0.145"    38.50"      1.0
5    27    62.0    0.130"    38.00"      3.0
6    31    62.5    0.120"    37.50"      4.0
7    35    63.0    0.110"    37.00"      5.0
8    39    63.5    0.100"    36.50"      6.0
9    43    64.0    0.090"    36.00"      7.0
P    47    64.0    0.085"    35.75"      8.0

 

 

I played the TaylorMades for literally 10 years and KNEW 100% what club to grab from what yardage and committed and took a confident stroke. However with my MB2's the lofts are 2* stronger from the 6i through the PW and I am now hitting my clubs further than I have for the past decade by about 10 yards a club.

This is 100% my personal opinion, I think the 3* gap between the 5i and 6i is a poor idea, but it also goes to show that OEMs feel that a 6iron is not a scoring club to most players the 7iron and down is.

 

For me I think that my 3i, 4i are "long irons" but because no one even carries a 3iron hardly anymore the 4i, 5i have become "long irons" So they just shifted the 3* gap down one club from between the 5i to 6i into the 6i to the 7i because so many people are just wanting 4-P now. Plus it will give the small appeal that you are 2 to 4 yards longer on each club, depends on swing speed for 1* distance change.

 

I haven't bought a set that is not at a 47* PW in a long time honestly and if I did I would be having everything bent 1* weak personally because that's not the specs I want to play in my 6i to PW. I don't need the extra 3 yards I need the control and confidence in how far my clubs are going for what I am used to.

 

 

So far I feel this has created confusion in my game on the mental side as before when I walked up to a ball that was 150 from the pin I grabbed my 8i and went at it and now I'm grabbing my 9i and feeling uncomfortable with what I have in my hand vs the distance to the pin, I'm not committing to the shot and therefor not accelerating through the shot and coming up short or putting more on it and going long.

One thing you can do if you have access to a good one is take all the irons to a LM and hit 10 shots with each one and write down average distance for each club. Once you memorize that distance then it becomes more confident "I know I hit this club X distance". It really doesn't matter how for they go as long as they are consistent in how far they go and you KNOW how far they go without a target in mind. You can't really get a target in mind until you already have a confident committed distance in your mind first.

 

If you are like me because I play an X as well, I hit a 6i at 31* about 198 yards carry. I know that my gaps for a 1* change is roughly 3 or 4yards. So I am going to guess that with a 2* increase on the short irons you are 6 to 8 yards longer. It is something that you can get used to over time IF you just take the perception of your old clubs out of play and just focus on what the results are for the new ones.

 

Like I said you have to know a "stock swing" distance on each club happens to be, regardless of the equipment if you are not committed to the shot then it is going to turn out ugly, I think you sort of know that already from your posts I'm just saying it again.

 

What I have been considering is bending my current clubs to match my prior set but i'm not sure if the added distance will be enough of a helping factor once i get the numbers finalized in my head or not. I feel that in my mind I will play with more comfort and confidence if I match my previous irons. What are your thoughts?

You COULD bent them 2* weak to a 22,25,28,32,36,40,44,48 set if your wanted this is likely to match your 10 year old irons perfectly. However then you get into the wedges and I am not sure what lofts you carry in those but you would be looking at a 52*, 56*, 60* to keep the 4* gaps or a 54* / 60* for 6* gaps. They really haven't updated the wedge gaps at all for the increased loft of irons. Mostly because people still play a 47* or 48* PW... I know I do either 43*, 47*, 52*, 56*, 60* or 43*, 48*, 54*, 60*. Just sort of gets me my confident / familiar gaps in wedges / short irons.

 

IF you do happen to bend the clubs 2* weak you will increase the bounce by roughly 2*, this will change turf interaction a little. with more bounce you might also have to move ball position back a hair to be able to forward press slightly more to bring the leading edge down a little more so that you don't catch one a hair thin at times.

 

 

It's all retaliative, The Adams MB2s are on the opposite side of the spectrum in terms of specifications in a lot of things compared to more ofter blades. They are more forgiving I think then every other blade, they have more offset then every other blades and pretty much every Players CB on the market, they are really designed more for a player that is not used to playing blades and is interested in trying a blade design out IMHO. They might have been more a step backwards for you, Maybe I should ask what made you want to buy the Adams MB2 over a different blade?

[RoverRick]

LT,

 

I have been thinking about what you said and what you did not say. First off, you said that this was creating a mental problem for you. You did not say that this has created yardage gaps that you are not happy with. While the lofts on the Adams' may be stronger they do not account for the full 10 yards. If you bend them you still do not take into account the gain from the different shafts. Unless you reshaft them you are addressing only half the problem. If you go back to the other shafts, I have to as why you spent more than $500 to end up with the same damned thing as you had. Just send me a check for $200 next time you want to change to the same thing and we will both be happy. Plus, you will be saving money.

 

Ok, so what the real problem is is your commitment to the shot. Write your new distances on a piece of paper or a card and keep it with your range finder or in your bag. When you get to your approach shot and find your distance, pull the card out. IF the your range is 150 and your card says hit the 3 iron, then by golly that is the club to hit. Commit and hit the darned ball.

 

PM me if you need my address to send the check.

[LT59]

The offsets can highly effect how much the face gets closed at impact by a little, obviously it doesn't sound like a lot but even a 1mm is a big difference in ball flight IMHO. You are looking at a blade that has about the same amount of offset as a lot of Game Improvement irons, personally I would hook the absolute s*** out of one regardless of shaft.

 

I have found in my personal experience that the PX line FEELs VERY HARSH, about a 1/2 flex stiffer then it really plays. The KBS Line is the exact opposite they FEEL like they are a 1/2 flex softer then they really are. So a PX 6.5 FEELs like a 7.0 and at Tour X FEELs more like a 6.5, not to mention that the KBS C-Taper is more comparable to the PX line up then the Tour line is. Just the design of the C-Taper is more a low to mid / low spin shaft, the PX is low to mid launch low spin shaft as well. The KBS Tour is more a mid launch mid spin shaft. You distance increase on the MB2 could be coming from a combination of 2* stronger and a shaft that launches the ball at the same height as your old irons would with weaker lofts.

 

 

I wrote a big MB review about a year ago and it has specifications and my thoughts on a lot of different blades when I was searching and testing to find a set. The original is here >> http://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/5458-muscleback-iron-review/

 

Here are the specs that I have listed in comparison to my AP2s I used to play back then...

CLUB    LOFT    LIE    OFFSET    LENGTH    BOUNCE

Consistent Offset Models
Adams Idea Pro MB (1.5mm converted to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.059"    39.00"      IDK
4    24    61.0    0.059"    38.50"      IDK
5    27    61.5    0.059"    38.00"      IDK
6    31    62.0    0.059"    37.50"      IDK
7    35    62.5    0.059"    37.00"      IDK
8    39    63.0    0.059"    36.50"      IDK
9    43    63.5    0.059"    36.00"      IDK
P    47    64.0    0.059"    35.50"      IDK

Progressive Offset Models
Wilson Staff FG62
3    21    59.5    0.095"    39.25"      4.5
4    24    60.0    0.092"    38.75"      5.0
5    27    61.0    0.089"    38.25"      5.5
6    31    61.5    0.086"    37.75"      6.0
7    35    62.0    0.083"    37.25"      6.5
8    39    63.0    0.080"    36.75"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.077"    36.25"      7.5
P    47    64.0    0.074"    35.75"      8.0

Mizuno MP-69
3    21    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      2.0
5    27    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      2.0
6    30    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      3.0
7    34    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      3.0
8    38    62.0    0.102"    36.25"      4.0
9    42    62.5    0.102"    35.75"      5.0
P    46    63.0    0.094"    35.30"      6.0

Mizuno MP-68
3    21    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      2.0
5    27    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      2.0
6    31    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      3.0
7    35    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      3.0
8    39    62.0    0.102"    36.25"      4.0
9    43    62.5    0.102"    35.75"      5.0
P    47    63.0    0.094"    35.30"      6.0

Mizuno MP-67
3    22    59.5    0.110"    38.75"      3.0
4    25    60.0    0.110"    38.25"      3.0
5    28    60.5    0.110"    37.75"      4.0
6    32    61.0    0.110"    37.25"      4.0
7    36    61.5    0.110"    36.75"      4.0
8    40    62.0    0.110"    36.25"      5.0
9    44    62.5    0.100"    35.75"      6.0
P    48    63.0    0.100"    35.50"      7.0

Nike VR Pro Blade
3    21    59.0    0.115"    39.00"      2.0
4    24    60.0    0.100"    38.50"      3.0
5    27    61.0    0.090"    38.00"      4.0
6    31    62.0    0.085"    37.50"      5.0
7    35    62.5    0.080"    37.00"      6.0
8    39    63.0    0.070"    36.50"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.060"    36.00"      8.0
P    47    64.0    0.060"    35.75"      9.0

Titleist Muscle Back (MB)
3    21    60.0    0.125"    39.00"      2.0
4    24    61.0    0.120"    38.50"      3.0
5    27    62.0    0.115"    38.00"      4.0
6    31    62.5    0.110"    37.50"      4.5
7    35    63.0    0.100"    37.00"      5.0
8    39    63.5    0.090"    36.50"      6.0
9    43    64.0    0.080"    36.00"      7.0
P    47    64.0    0.075"    35.75"      8.0

Adams Idea Pro MB2 (given in mm I converted it to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.180"    39.00"      0.7
4    24    61.0    0.168"    38.50"      1.7
5    27    61.5    0.156"    38.00"      2.5
6    30    62.0    0.144"    37.50"      3.4
7    34    62.5    0.132"    37.00"      4.2
8    38    63.0    0.120"    36.50"      5.2
9    42    63.5    0.108"    36.00"      6.0
P    46    64.0    0.096"    35.50"      6.5

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Titleist AP2 (2008) --> http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/irons/2008ap2.asp
3    21    60.0    0.160"    39.00"      0.0
4    24    61.0    0.145"    38.50"      1.0
5    27    62.0    0.130"    38.00"      3.0
6    31    62.5    0.120"    37.50"      4.0
7    35    63.0    0.110"    37.00"      5.0
8    39    63.5    0.100"    36.50"      6.0
9    43    64.0    0.090"    36.00"      7.0
P    47    64.0    0.085"    35.75"      8.0

 

 

 

This is 100% my personal opinion, I think the 3* gap between the 5i and 6i is a poor idea, but it also goes to show that OEMs feel that a 6iron is not a scoring club to most players the 7iron and down is.

 

For me I think that my 3i, 4i are "long irons" but because no one even carries a 3iron hardly anymore the 4i, 5i have become "long irons" So they just shifted the 3* gap down one club from between the 5i to 6i into the 6i to the 7i because so many people are just wanting 4-P now. Plus it will give the small appeal that you are 2 to 4 yards longer on each club, depends on swing speed for 1* distance change.

 

I haven't bought a set that is not at a 47* PW in a long time honestly and if I did I would be having everything bent 1* weak personally because that's not the specs I want to play in my 6i to PW. I don't need the extra 3 yards I need the control and confidence in how far my clubs are going for what I am used to.

 

 

 

One thing you can do if you have access to a good one is take all the irons to a LM and hit 10 shots with each one and write down average distance for each club. Once you memorize that distance then it becomes more confident "I know I hit this club X distance". It really doesn't matter how for they go as long as they are consistent in how far they go and you KNOW how far they go without a target in mind. You can't really get a target in mind until you already have a confident committed distance in your mind first.

 

If you are like me because I play an X as well, I hit a 6i at 31* about 198 yards carry. I know that my gaps for a 1* change is roughly 3 or 4yards. So I am going to guess that with a 2* increase on the short irons you are 6 to 8 yards longer. It is something that you can get used to over time IF you just take the perception of your old clubs out of play and just focus on what the results are for the new ones.

 

Like I said you have to know a "stock swing" distance on each club happens to be, regardless of the equipment if you are not committed to the shot then it is going to turn out ugly, I think you sort of know that already from your posts I'm just saying it again.

 

 

You COULD bent them 2* weak to a 22,25,28,32,36,40,44,48 set if your wanted this is likely to match your 10 year old irons perfectly. However then you get into the wedges and I am not sure what lofts you carry in those but you would be looking at a 52*, 56*, 60* to keep the 4* gaps or a 54* / 60* for 6* gaps. They really haven't updated the wedge gaps at all for the increased loft of irons. Mostly because people still play a 47* or 48* PW... I know I do either 43*, 47*, 52*, 56*, 60* or 43*, 48*, 54*, 60*. Just sort of gets me my confident / familiar gaps in wedges / short irons.

 

IF you do happen to bend the clubs 2* weak you will increase the bounce by roughly 2*, this will change turf interaction a little. with more bounce you might also have to move ball position back a hair to be able to forward press slightly more to bring the leading edge down a little more so that you don't catch one a hair thin at times.

 

 

It's all retaliative, The Adams MB2s are on the opposite side of the spectrum in terms of specifications in a lot of things compared to more ofter blades. They are more forgiving I think then every other blade, they have more offset then every other blades and pretty much every Players CB on the market, they are really designed more for a player that is not used to playing blades and is interested in trying a blade design out IMHO. They might have been more a step backwards for you, Maybe I should ask what made you want to buy the Adams MB2 over a different blade?

 

 

LT,

 

I have been thinking about what you said and what you did not say. First off, you said that this was creating a mental problem for you. You did not say that this has created yardage gaps that you are not happy with. While the lofts on the Adams' may be stronger they do not account for the full 10 yards. If you bend them you still do not take into account the gain from the different shafts. Unless you reshaft them you are addressing only half the problem. If you go back to the other shafts, I have to as why you spent more than $500 to end up with the same damned thing as you had. Just send me a check for $200 next time you want to change to the same thing and we will both be happy. Plus, you will be saving money.

 

Ok, so what the real problem is is your commitment to the shot. Write your new distances on a piece of paper or a card and keep it with your range finder or in your bag. When you get to your approach shot and find your distance, pull the card out. IF the your range is 150 and your card says hit the 3 iron, then by golly that is the club to hit. Commit and hit the darned ball.

 

PM me if you need my address to send the check.

 

 

Jmills and Rover Thank you both for your input. I truly appreciate it

 

To answer a couple of the questions you put up Jmills I decided on the MB2 over the MP69 based on feel of the head and spin numbers alone. I'm hitting into firmer faster greens now than ever before and I was literally spinning the MB2 8i as much as the MP69 PW with the same shafts. The feel of the MB2 is hands down amazing, I've hit A LOT of blades and this blew the rest of the field out of the water in that dept.

 

I do agree that the PX line plays harsher than the KBS tour but i feel the rifle series plays similar. PX never worked for me nearly as well as Rifle or Tour Issue s300's.

 

As far as ball placement I feel I will be able to leave it in the same position as I have a very steep AoA into the ball.

 

For my wedges I have a TON of options, right now i'm bagging SCOR 49, 52, 58 but I also have a Scratch 1018 55 and 60 as well as a TM rac 52 that are all legal for tournament play. I have been considering dropping the SCOR 49 and putting the Scratch 55 back in the bag as the sole grind of the SCOR feels a little off for me in the sand. but now i'm considering dropping the PW and adding the 55 with the loft matching.

 

As far as the offset of the MB2 and the MB2 being more of an entry level blade i'm not sure if I would agree with that. I don't feel it's nearly as forgiving as the MP69 but at the same time more forgiving than the Nike VRpro (MP14 and 33 mix supposedly). The offset of the MB2 seems to be on par with Scratch, Miura, Vega, Mizzy, Titleist, KZG and others on the market.

 

RR~ I fully understand that i'm only addressing 1/2 of the issue but I feel that if I "split the difference" I'll be happier with my selection. Also if it doesn't help it's simple enough to put them back in the loft/lie vise and take them back to stock.

 

As far as the real problem you are 100% correct, it's all about commitment to the shot and I just can't get myself to commit to the 9i at 150-55. I don't feel like I spent money to get the same thing that I got rid of however as the spin numbers are gargantuan on the MB2 compared to what I had and what I was considering.

 

I'd be happy to send you $200 as long as I get something super cool in return

[revkev]

I will start by saying I've often considered bending my clubs. Some of that consideration has been a positive to even out yardage gaps and the other, well the other I'd prefer not to mention on the Sabbath.

 

You're obviously a very strong player so this is clearly a matter on confidence - yes the new clubs could be significantly different in feel and performance but heck you should be able to figure about anything out.

 

From personal experience I'd go back to what you were playing and work the new irons in gradually, a round here, a round there. But you know we are all made differently - whatever works for you to get the mental part of the game in sync that's what you should do.

 

Good luck!

[ZenGolfer]

If you think it will, it probably will. The mind can be a very powerful thing.

[RoverRick]

IF you do happen to bend the clubs 2* weak you will increase the bounce by roughly 2*, this will change turf interaction a little. with more bounce you might also have to move ball position back a hair to be able to forward press slightly more to bring the leading edge down a little more so that you don't catch one a hair thin at times.

Just so I understand what you are advocating, bend them 2* weak then to offset the 2* more bounce you implement a forward press which actually strengthens the lofts by 2*. So on a 36" club all you really have done is move the ball back 1 1/4" in your stance. Conversely, if he moves the ball up 1 1/4" in his stance he accomplishes the same thing as bending the clubs 2* weak. And this still does not account for the full distance changes.

 

Obviously I am not an advocate of bending the clubs simply because of the turf interaction that is mentioned. If I love the way the club feels now I would not bend it simply for this reason.

 

I alternate between two sets of clubs. MP33 and MP59. I know that the 33's 2* weaker are going to be 5 yards less. Ok. So they are less. I simply take that into account.

[JMiller]

As far as the offset of the MB2 and the MB2 being more of an entry level blade I'm not sure if I would agree with that. I don't feel it's nearly as forgiving as the MP69 but at the same time more forgiving than the Nike VRpro (MP14 and 33 mix supposedly). The offset of the MB2 seems to be on par with Scratch, Miura, Vega, Mizzy, Titleist, KZG and others on the market.

 

That's no problem, let me go into some more technical details and design of the head that makes me think the way I do about the topic. Also, I did test hit them with the KBS Tour X-Stiff in them if I remember correctly, it has been so long now that some of it is fuzzy.

 

I got my offset numbers from Adams Golf when the club first came out, they provided the numbers in MM, I converted them to inches using some free online tools as I was being lazy to do it manually. I got the other offsets directly from the manufactures website and where not available I search the internet attempting to find the offset specifications. One of the major things that I was looking for in a blade was a lower amount of offset as I feel it gives me better workability of the club and would have a very small amount of face angle change in the 0.1* range between the lowest amount of offset and the highest amount of offset.

 

Now lets say on all three clubs my path stayed exactly the same at -1.5* inside to outside on the LM (all clubs I tested were LM 6irons), Now lets say that the MB2 came in at 0.1* open to the target, The MP-69 came in at 0.5* open to the target, The FG62 came in at 0.5* open to the target even with the weaker shaft. I think it is safe to say that each one of these situations will result in a different starting line and a different amount of curve even if the spin rates are the same, they are likely to have different spin rates as well.

 

So if you think about a hypothetical situation with the same shaft:

MB2: Path = -1.5*, Face Angle @ impact = 0.0* (straight to left)

FG62 Path = -1.5*, Face Angle @ impact = 0.4* (slight right to left)

MP69: Path = -1.5*, Face Angle ~ impact = 0.8* (slightly more right to slightly less left)

 

I left the path identical and just changed the face angle of the club, The shaft is the same on all three heads and build wise all three are perfect in weight, lie, loft, etc they match exactly. We are just looking now at offset only and it's possible effect on the face angle at impact. I think we can agree that where the face is pointed is where the ball starts, we have been through this already on this website and I can provide a few other resources that also have that research. The ball curves based on the path of the club, so combining the face angle and path you get your start and curve amount. This sounds stupid but at a high level you feel like you want to have 110% control over your face and on your best days you want to think you can control the shot by even 1 yard of curve. It really happens but you hear the best players in the world say when they are on their A+ game they can even get 0.5yard in distance and hit it to that spot within a 0.5yard.

 

I went ahead and listed the highest and lowest offset specs in the group of progressive offset blades I tested. And the difference between the two in inches.

Adams Idea Pro MB2 (given in mm I converted it to inches)
3    21    60.5    0.180"    39.00"      0.7
4    24    61.0    0.168"    38.50"      1.7
5    27    61.5    0.156"    38.00"      2.5
6    30    62.0    0.144"    37.50"      3.4
7    34    62.5    0.132"    37.00"      4.2
8    38    63.0    0.120"    36.50"      5.2
9    42    63.5    0.108"    36.00"      6.0
P    46    64.0    0.096"    35.50"      6.5

Wilson Staff FG62
3    21    59.5    0.095"    39.25"      4.5
4    24    60.0    0.092"    38.75"      5.0
5    27    61.0    0.089"    38.25"      5.5
6    31    61.5    0.086"    37.75"      6.0
7    35    62.0    0.083"    37.25"      6.5
8    39    63.0    0.080"    36.75"      7.0
9    43    63.5    0.077"    36.25"      7.5
P    47    64.0    0.074"    35.75"      8.0

Difference using MB2 minus FG62
3    0*     1.0*   0.088"    39.00"      0.7
4    0*     1.0*   0.079"    38.50"      1.7
5    0*     0.5*   0.070"    38.00"      2.5
6    -1*    0.5*   0.061"    37.50"      3.4
7    -1*    0.5*   0.049"    37.00"      4.2
8    -1*    0.0*   0.040"    36.50"      5.2
9    -1*    0.0*   0.031"    36.00"      6.0
P    -1*    0.0*   0.022"    35.50"      6.5

 

Now is 0.088" down to 0.022", this doesn't sound like a lot but it could be the difference between a 0.5* open face and a 0.1* open face for example. For a really good player and a higher swing speed / higher spin player 0.1* can actually make a difference but they will notice the change for sure in what they expect to happen and what really happens at 0.5* or larger face angle changes with the same path roughly. Will ever player notice this, hell no, I completely agree with you there. However, the target audience for a blade is normally 6 or better handicaps that have repeatable very good ball striking, these types of players tend to notice little things that they don't like or like.

 

So can you say that they are "ball park" between the MB2 to other blades NO. IF you look at other offsets of blades, Players CBs, GI, SGI irons you will notice that the offset is smallest on blades normally then goes up slightly into SGI irons. When a blade is matching an offset of a GI iron it's not "ball park" to it's competitors other then the looks and concept of a blade in terms of dynamic close of the face at impact.

 

 

As for forgiveness the MB2 has weights across the bottom of the iron from toe to heel, these are designed 1 to get the ball more up in the air but also designed to give a tough of perimeter weighting in the club. They compare more like a Mizuno MP-60 where it played more like a blade with a hair more forgiveness around the face. The MP69 tried to do something close to this with getting the CG lower in the irons then the MP-68 but it still has slightly less forgiveness IMHO then the Adams MB2. Were are only talking about 10-30% in terms of forgiveness around the sweet spot in any blade that's not a lot I would compare the Adams MB2 more like a Players CB like a MP-60 then a blade but that's just my opinion.

 

Van someone adjust to the clubs easily yes they can if you got a good enough game to be consistent in your swing you can adjust to anything over time.

[Tyk]

Its tough isn't it? I'm having the same problem but mine new sticks are 2* weaker. I find myself taking the longer club and then making a tentative swing because my mind is telling me "that is too much club!" even though it isn't.

 

I think it's just going to take some time to trust it. For me, I'm going to give it more time, although I do sometimes wonder why I'm putting myself through the hassle!