Please teach me how to draw the ball

[sai-jin]

So I paid a golf pro to teach me how to hit draws consistently and all I have to say is it was a waste of money. Very disappointed.

All he tried to do is make me keep coming back for things I already know.

 

Anyways,... I'm a natural fader of the ball.

I have a slightly strong grip and I still fade the ball, thus I aim left to put the ball in the middle of fairway and green.

 

I want to be able to hit a draw consistently. So far what I have been told and tried to do are:

 

1. aim for the inside quadrant of the ball and hit the ball to the right.

2. Shoulder doesn't rotate horizontally, rather more left shoulder up and right shoulder down.

3. Head behind ball.

 

No matter the above I kept hitting fades and baby fades.

 

Can someone perhaps help me with a more solid basic thought? Should I exaggerate the hitting ball into base #1 more?

I'm lost and I don't want to spend anymore money I don't have on golf pros in this town.

 

Sorry for the rant... I had a bad golf day today because of weather, a person and a woman.

[JBones]

If you have a consistent fade, stick with it. Have you ever heard the saying "you can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen"? Unless you hit a draw/hook, you don't know how true that is. I've tried to do the opposite of you (hit a consistent fade) and it has lead to disaster. Get consistent with your natural shot and you won't need any other shot; just ask Zach Johnson.

[Shambles]

I had a bad case of the slice on almost all my shots many years ago. Hard to believe, but I even sliced my sand wedge on full swings. I went to a pro and he looked at me swing, then immediately taught me to hook, after which he made me hook ball after ball for an hour with no further instruction. I was feeling cheated but followed the instruction because I was paying him for that hour. Shortly before the end of the hour, he instructed me to begin hitting straight shots. Miracle of miracles, I hit straight shots one after the other and at the end of the hour he declared me cured.

 

 

 

Shambles

[revkev]

I'm going to echo what's been said already - learn to live with what you have unless you have tour aspirations. There is nothing wrong with a fade, nothing wrong with a draw either but since you are hitting a fade hone it man, hone it - very accurate shot and it will allow you to really go after the ball - that's something that those of us who draw the ball by nature have to be very careful about because that draw turns into a hook post haste.

 

Any and all of your suggestions might help produce a draw by the way - there is more than one way to do it and much depends on you and your swing type.

 

However if I'm not mistaken trackman shows that better right handed players are swinging down and left at impact with their irons even if they play a draw.

[sai-jin]

Thanks. I've been playing the straight fade, pull fade and push fades for about 2 years now.

I guess I should have not said "getting rid of fade shots" since I'm definitely keeping it and I have learned to take the left side almost completely off, unless when I hit a hook or pull.

As you guys suggested, I will hone this more and keep it as a stock shot, which so far I have when I really have to make good contact.

 

But I really want to learn how to draw the ball. Most of the courses here have more hazard like water on the right. For example: Trees to the left and houses / water / cliff to the right.

 

I have a naturally steeper swing with a 2 plane.

[Firstkart]

One thing that I have learned about going to a pro for advice is that they are as much in the dark about your problem as you are when they first begin.

 

There are 2 schools of thought about coaching, one is to just go when you want to learn how to do something specific or fix a problem and the second is having a regular coach who guides your progression as you improve etc.

 

So the immediate problem is finding the coach with the skills who fits the type of tuition that you are looking for.

 

It is like going to the chiropractor, one will snap you back into shape and send you on your way the other will treat you on a regular basis and give you the right advice at the right time.

 

I like the second option and have been fortunate to have found a coach who seems to know just when and what to tweak to get things heading in the right direction. When I first started accepting his advice it was difficult to keep at what he was asking me to do, especially when things seem to fall apart in the middle of a round.

 

So my advice (yes you knew it was coming ) is either accept what you have for a swing and resulting fade or completely commit to some serious coaching and develop your game to where you want it to be. Sounds quirky but "Do or Do Not There is No Try".

[Shambles]

I like the Yoda quote, but prefer to use it for people who have smoking problems.

 

With regards to Golf I consider time wasted if there is no learning involved, especially if you are just beginning or on the come back trail. Thus I dislike the idea of settling for what you have. I consider that attitude the beginning of atrophy. Explore your limits and try to push them back.

 

 

Shambles

[Firstkart]

I asked my dad about smoking after sex and he said use more lubrication.

 

AJ

[sai-jin]

I think I'm starting to see more of the other side of golf. I'm going to commit to trying to learning the draw , but I'll have to do it on my own.

Just can't afford a coach for now.

 

I'm pretty analytical and persistent, so let's see if I can start hitting draws at will in a month or 2.

[ZenGolfer]

Close your stance, change to a strong grip and just swing along your foot line. Thats how I learned to hit a draw.

[sai-jin]

No problems with 6i and down (still need the muscle memory for it though)

 

But 5i to Driver is still problematic... kept fading still

[Paul S]

No problems with 6i and down (still need the muscle memory for it though)

 

But 5i to Driver is still problematic... kept fading still

 

It will be very helpful for you to understand the ball flight rules first. Then you can start to understand how to manipulate the ball. Beyond that understanding, most of us use varying methods to get the club to impact the club correctly; it's not necessarily cut-and-dried. You'll figure it out. Good luck!

 

Paul

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89M1vt66FA

[Matt Saternus]

No problems with 6i and down (still need the muscle memory for it though)

 

But 5i to Driver is still problematic... kept fading still

 

Based on this comment, it sounds to me like you need the "down" (negative AoA) to get your path far enough right to draw the ball. With less "down" (the norm with longer clubs) path ends up being too far left. With the longer clubs you'll need to close stance more/swing more to the right.

[sai-jin]

@Paul: Oh be darn... I have always thought that the swing path determines the starting flight of the ball and the face is the side spin...

Everything he said is absolutely contradictory of what I thought I know.

 

 

Thanks, Paul, I'm gonna study it and assign myself a homework.

 

 

 

@Matt: what does "down" mean?

Yes, I do pull a lot of my balls today. I'm going to try to exaggerate hitting to base 1 more. I'll keep you guys updated.

 

ALso, I notice that I have a habit of keeping my club face open with driver and 3W.

 

=================

 

Just finished watching the youtube video. All I can say is wow.

 

So basically:

 

1. Push draw: Club open, swing path to base 1

2. Push fade: Club open, swing path to base 3

 

And the reason I have always faded is because... I'm coming in slightly from outside with open face.

 

Never thought that the release of the face has nothing to do with draw... I violently tried to close the face and side curve the ball only to get a flip hook.

[sai-jin]

@paul_s: That video made a lot of difference in my swing. I managed to produce more baby draw and straighter shots now, it also made me realize that I'm having a little trouble coming on the inside

so I exaggerate and start to aim at 5 o'clock of the golf ball and it works 50/50 .

 

Changing my grip to a neutral / weaker grip after being used to a strong grip is a challenge as well.

 

but for now I'm going keep working on coming from the inside even more and point club to between base 1 and 2.

 

Thanks for the video, it was an eye opener.

[Firstkart]

That is simply the best explanation I have ever heard of how the mechanics of the golf swing effect the flight of the ball. Awesome.

 

AJ

[Super Tuna]

I'm glad it's starting to work for you SJ.

 

My method of hitting a draw is awful according to all the instructors I've been to see. Essentially I just snap my wrists like I'm taking a snap hot in hockey as soon as I feel impact. The more I snap, the more it draws/hooks.

 

The slight fade is what I get when I haven;t been swinging much, especially with the longer clubs. As Matt said earlier, it's because I'm getting to shallow and not down enough on the ball.

[sai-jin]

@Tuna:

 

Hmm... how do you remedy it for the longer clubs then?

OEPS! Edit: I just re-read Matt's post, I think I'm starting to get it more now.

 

How many inches back on the right foot on address for a driver that's around 46" you think?

 

 

You still play your Diamana X ? I found out that using the RBZ Tour head on that shaft actually makes the shaft feel awesome! Have you tried it?

[revkev]

I liked Firstkat's chiropracter analogy! I've had 4 chiropracters in my life and I prefer #1! Three of the 4 have been that type and that's what works best for me. Likewise with golf coaches/teachers - I'm basically self taught and my swing works - my best teacher took what I have and said, look this is where you'll have trouble, when you're having trouble here is a strata of things to watch out for - he's also played with me and watched me hit enough shots to speak with authority.

 

Back to the draw - I believe that what Matt is refering to is your angle of attack - its steep or down which would mean that your path would have to be more right or out to get the ball to draw with those longer clubs - I think you simply have to understand in your minds eye the principal that will make the ball start a bit right and curve left and then work it out for yourself. If it's any consolation that's how I learned to fade or cut the ball - I will only hit that shot if I have to though - everything else is with a little draw or straight - I don't ever try to hit a fade unless I have no choice - that means I ignore right side pins - it means if there is water or bunkering left that I aim down the right rough line and trust it to draw back in - I've just learned to say - this is what I do - and I play it.

 

It works for me with a draw and it should work great for you with a fade. Save the draw, once you have it, for getting out of trouble, when you need it.

[Matt Saternus]

Not short, but thorough.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepMzddHpas

[Kor.A.Door]

Tom Lehman was a guy that only hit draw, he rarely ever hit fade, only when he absolutely had no choice. I think that is what the guys here are trying to say. Earlier this year I tried to force myself to fade the ball, mainly with the irons, but I kind of screwed a lot of things up, so i just quit forcing it. Go with what you have, you don't have to master one or the other for an occasional shot, find a simple yet repeatable way to hit the draw, and play it that way. If you fade the ball and that is your natural shot, I wouldn't mess with that at all.

[Firstkart]

Another tip I have seen is to imagine that you are hitting a tent peg into the ground as the first move in your down swing.

 

The imaginary peg is level with your legs or behind depending on how much inside to out you are looking for.

 

Of course this is a drill to create a feeling that you starting down in the path before rotating as opposed to rotating first and then casting the club to an outside to in swing path.

 

AJ

 

P.S. This is for golf not chiropractors.

[JMiller]

So I paid a golf pro to teach me how to hit draws consistently and all I have to say is it was a waste of money. Very disappointed.

All he tried to do is make me keep coming back for things I already know.

 

Anyways,... I'm a natural fader of the ball.

I have a slightly strong grip and I still fade the ball, thus I aim left to put the ball in the middle of fairway and green.

I have already tried to help you with your swing once in the lessons section of the forum. My instructor even tossed in a little advice (Bruce Rearick, bargolf) for you to help you. What I was attempting to do in giving advice for your swing model is to get you more inside to down the line, there is no way you can hit a draw coming outside to inside unless it is a pull draw / hook. We don't want a two way miss that's ugly.

 

What I was giving you advice for was to hit a natural draw with a two-plane swing, but it really sort of came off to me that you really didn't want to accept my advice and when I pointed you in a different direction you refused that as well. You can't be scared to take advice, if you are taking a lesson you have to trust the person doing the teaching and listen to what they have to say. If it doesn't work you give them nice feedback that you can't feel what they are trying to have you do and they think on a way to re-word it of get a FEEL for you to do the motions correctly.

 

It is sort of pointless to pay someone or ask for advice if all you plan to do is tell the instructor how much you know or think you know about what they are telling you. Financially and progression that is just not logical. You are wasting your time and the instructors time in doing that. If you ask for advice be prepared to listen and think some advice sucks but has good intentions, other advice is great but doesn't work for you and you have to find / feel something different that does work.

 

 

I want to be able to hit a draw consistently. So far what I have been told and tried to do are:

 

1. aim for the inside quadrant of the ball and hit the ball to the right.

2. Shoulder doesn't rotate horizontally, rather more left shoulder up and right shoulder down.

3. Head behind ball.

 

No matter the above I kept hitting fades and baby fades.

Again, for your swing being two-plane you HAVE to let the hands drop down first BEFORE the hips / shoulders start to rotate. The transition HAS to feel very slow and the hand have to feel like they are around waste high before the body starts to rotate.

 

Regardless of swing plane you have basic concepts:

DRAW >> Arms have to lead the body into impact

FADE >> The hips / shoulders lead the arms into impact

 

Can someone perhaps help me with a more solid basic thought? Should I exaggerate the hitting ball into base #1 more?

I'm lost and I don't want to spend anymore money I don't have on golf pros in this town.

Review the above and re-read what we talked about in your swing video thread on the other section of the forum.

[RookieBlue7]

Not sure why you're wanting to learn to draw the ball. A fade is a very playable and controllable ball flight. If there's trouble right, start the ball farther left than you would normally. A fade is going to land softer and not run into trouble like a draw does. And if its your natural ball flight, I'd work with refining it and having it even more controllable. Trying to learn a draw is just allowing more flaws to creep into the swing and confuse your body. I'd learn to play with what you have and focus on chipping and putting (or inside 100 yard shots) more. Those are where you're going to gain the most strokes, not learning to hit a shot that you might use a few times per round. That and learn to throttle back and leave yourself comfortable distances and playing for par instead of getting aggressive and trying to birdie everything. Just ask Mr. Nicklaus... He made a nice living playing a natural fade.

[sai-jin]

@Jmiller: I never refuse advice from anyone, sorry if it sounded like it did, but I definitely tried. Perhaps I just didn't quite understand at the time.

Anyways , the tips from this thread have helped me and my draw is improving more and more.

 

I think I'll be able to apply what you said better this time. I'm off to the range.

[Super Tuna]

@Tuna:

 

Hmm... how do you remedy it for the longer clubs then?

OEPS! Edit: I just re-read Matt's post, I think I'm starting to get it more now.

 

How many inches back on the right foot on address for a driver that's around 46" you think?

 

 

You still play your Diamana X ? I found out that using the RBZ Tour head on that shaft actually makes the shaft feel awesome! Have you tried it?

 

 

Greets!

 

Focus on staying down more with the longer ones. Try and force one's weight to keep down until impact then come through and up. It sounds like dipping into the ball, but in practice doesn't actually work out like that.

 

If I'm trying to force it with feet, my standard rule is that the toe of foot I want to move should match the instep of the foot in the standard position.

 

Naw, the Diamana X found a new home. Played with a client who brought a friend along who bought the club whole hog out of my bag.

[sai-jin]

Ladies & Gents, I'm happy to inform you that SJ now knows how to draw the ball as well as fade the ball... for the most part =P

 

Thanks to:

 

Paul: For showing me the video that teaches me the ball flight laws. (which was complete opposite of what I was taught)

Matt: For telling me the difference in longer clubs' AoA

Jmiller: For the golf for dummies approach tips which actually nailed the coffin.

 

So hugs to Paul and Matt...

[sai-jin]

@Maguro

 

WHAT!!! You sold the Diamana X!?!? Noooo.... *pouts*

You better get a lot of $$$ for that shaft at least. It's such a beast of a shaft.

 

AH, funny you said so abou tthe longer clubs, when I dropped the club (to hit the draw), I felt like the club was going to hit the ground first so

I rotated my hips a little early and ended up with a fade again. I shouldn't be afraid to just drop it completely huh?

 

I think next would be club face control. I notice that in all my draw shots, I either hit a pull draw or push draw.

Which means my face either remains open or becomes closed.

[Super Tuna]

Twice what I paid for the club setup myself . It's a pricey shaft, but a number of places offer a pretty solid discount on it or at least they did earlier in the year.

 

I'm not sure I'm explaining the dip thing correctly. What I'm trying to do with the drawing shot with the longer club is instead of coming down on the ball and finishing high which produces my standard slight fade, I'm trying to hold the downward attack angle longer. My hands fearing the impact to come then come through the release faster and instead of finishing up and high I finish signifigantly lower. This then causes the right to left spin and thus the draw.

 

It really is a terrible method though because if one's release doesn't work you really get a nasty impact.

[Blade]

It's a good shot to learn. There's no reason to believe you shouldn't learn how to do it just because you normally fade a ball. Yea, Jack played a fade. You can be sure he knew how to draw a ball if he wanted to though. But the fade was more reliable for him, so that was his stock shot. Doesn't mean he never bothered to learn how to hit a draw.