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Would you play someone with non-conforming equipment for money?


Rickles

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If you're using non-conforming clubs you technically don't have a handicap because it was gained illegally.

 

It will be what it will be - Given that I regularly play against100 or so people on a weekly  basis I have no doubt that I'm already playing with someone using non-conforming equipment.  Frankly they probably don't realize it -

 

There's this guy whom I often practice with who is a member of the Hickory Shaft Society.  He's in his mid 60's.  He was a DI player, turned pro, taught and used to frequent the mini-tours.  Interesting cat.  He tours around the country with guys who will only play hickory shafted equipment. 

 

I don't know that I'd want to go back there but consider the advantage a guy with modern equipment and ball has over a guy playing with this stuff.  This guy is a pro, when he uses modern equipment and we play from the same tees he beats me like a drum, when he uses his hickory shafted clubs the tables are turned - well at least we're even or I might be a little better - way better tee to green.

 

So equipment does matter.  But this is an extreme example.  I'm thinking that like most things the better the player the larger the gain using non-conforming stuff.  I'm also thinking that someone who would use non-conforming equipment is not going to care that his handicap is gained illegal and so those comments about handicaps are relevant even if they shouldn't be.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Not a Rick Reilly fan by any stretch, but anyone who cares enough about this topic to post should really read the "Who's Your Caddy" chapter about Dewey Tomko. Not sure how much embellishment is sewn into the prose, but it was a fun read.

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I understand it would be considered an illegal handicap since it used illegal clubs, but at the end of the day if the goal is to put the ball in the hole and the rest of the rules are held constant besides equipment; it would still show an accurate representation for an adjusted non conforming handicap. What holds more ground; equipment or skill? Equipment won't ever make up for skill so an "illegal" handicap could still be used as an accurate measure for competition or money game that utilizes handicaps. We aren't talking about switching to paint can sized holes so no equipment will make up for a bad short game or bad/inconsistent putting.

 

Maybe my thought of what equipment would do for a player is skewed. But an example of how I think non conforming equipment would help is as follows:

 

Par 4 - 390 yd hole

Golfer tees off and slices the ball into deep rough, trees, etc for 280 yards. Punches out and moves ball forward to 50 yards from the pin in the middle of the fairway. Third shot, hits it on the green and two putts for bogey with conforming equipment.

 

Golfer with non coforming equipment hits the ball 330 in the middle of the fairway. Hits approach shot on the green and two putts for par.

 

I would even say thats a stretch that equipment alone will gain 50 yards and eliminate a slice/fade but say it happens. At the end of the day a handicap could be measured off both of those scores and adjusted accordingly. Like I said earlier though I am pretty dense and could be missing something. What about that second scenerio is bad for golf or would change your thought process of playing someone for money?

Driver: Taylormade R9 8.5° S

Fairway Wood: TBD
Irons: Cobra Amp 4i-9i
Wedges: SCOR 4161 43, 47, 51, 55, 59
Putter: Odyssey White Hot Rossie XG

Bag: TBD

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I have an older wedge non conforming even to the 2010 rule. I never really put it in play. I'll try to sneak in 9holes with it comparing to my first generation Vokey SM and Callaway Jaws.

 

Played 9 with the non conforming 57* wedge. I was able to hit a few practice shots comparing with my usual wedges.

The wedge definitely had more stopping power than my 58* Callaway Jaws and 56* first gen Vokey Spin Milled. Hard to compare really to my Fourteen V3 60* because the 60* had the added advantage or more loft as well.

 

I do see would be that I would now be able to comfortably go back to a 3 wedge system, pw-52-57 rather than the pw-50-56-60 I generally use. I could then add a hybrid somewhere or a strong 3 wood/thriver because my weakness is off the tee.

 

One thing I did ponder is that the better the player, the better he can take advantage of the non conforming wedge. I'm pretty good 60yards in and the non conforming wedge had me throwing darts with no fear of slight roll out (which I get from my 56 when the green is a little firmer than normal) and no fear of catching it high on the face and ending up 10 yards short (which is my miss with a full swing 60*). That being said I guess the same advantage could be gained by a good driver using a non conforming driver. He gets to hit the hotspots more and hit it longer more often than me who would probably miss than hot spot most of the time.

 

Nice experience but I will now go back to my conforming wedges.

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Uniformly painted bright pink with "SISSY" or "BUBBA" printed in large capitals !

 

Non conforming clubs should be easily identifiable

In custom James Stewart golfbag:
Ping Tour-S Rustique 60/TS & 55/13 / Ping CFS Stiff / Ping ID8
Ping i20 4-PW+UW / Ping CFS Stiff / Ping ID8
Ping G15 2H 17° & driver 9° / stiff aldila serrano / ping 703
Odyssey White Hot XG 2-Ball / 33" / 2°up
Srixon AD333 - Oakley Flack Jacket XLJ G30

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I understand it would be considered an illegal handicap since it used illegal clubs, but at the end of the day if the goal is to put the ball in the hole and the rest of the rules are held constant besides equipment; it would still show an accurate representation for an adjusted non conforming handicap. What holds more ground; equipment or skill? Equipment won't ever make up for skill so an "illegal" handicap could still be used as an accurate measure for competition or money game that utilizes handicaps. We aren't talking about switching to paint can sized holes so no equipment will make up for a bad short game or bad/inconsistent putting.

 

Maybe my thought of what equipment would do for a player is skewed. But an example of how I think non conforming equipment would help is as follows:

 

Par 4 - 390 yd hole

 

Golfer tees off and slices the ball into deep rough, trees, etc for 280 yards. Punches out and moves ball forward to 50 yards from the pin in the middle of the fairway. Third shot, hits it on the green and two putts for bogey with conforming equipment.

 

Golfer with non coforming equipment hits the ball 330 in the middle of the fairway. Hits approach shot on the green and two putts for par.

 

I would even say thats a stretch that equipment alone will gain 50 yards and eliminate a slice/fade but say it happens. At the end of the day a handicap could be measured off both of those scores and adjusted accordingly. Like I said earlier though I am pretty dense and could be missing something. What about that second scenerio is bad for golf or would change your thought process of playing someone for money?

 

 

Given that the average gofler hits the ball 210 and the average single digit golfer hits it 240 I'm thinking this is just a random example that has nothing to do with reality.

 

To the main point - I agree - if the person using the illegal equipment will at least post his scores who cares?  The problem I still deal with is that the tournaments I aspire to win are gross events or at least I'm hoping to win the gross portion of them not the net portion, I don't even know if I'd consider winning the Net a win.  So, if someone is using illegal equipment then I'm out of luck - it's just the chance I have to take - what am I going to do?  Search the bags of every golfer at next months City Am?  I have to assume that they are not using non-conforming equipment.  No one is going to police them so that's the way it will be.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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All this talk of NC clubs just kills me. Other than more sales, what is it really going to do? Will a bad swing magically turn good? You still gave to hit a little ball with a little head on the end of a stick... It's still going to be hard. High clappers aren't suddenly going to hit straight drives 300 yards.

 

And for what? So they enjoy the game more? So instead of shooting 130, they shoot 120? Is that going to be more fun?

 

High clappers are already very difficult to beat because the margin for a single capper is slim to get any help on their net score. A high capper gets a lot of strokes and merely needs to have a decent day to win

 

They already make easy to hit clubs, they are called shovels and volkswagon s on stix.

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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According to what I have read a chipper is not illegial unless it has two sides but if that is the case why is a Bullseye type putter legal?

 

 

That's also as I remember the rule. Unfortunately someone told me they removed the chipper entirely but was unable to explain why, and I didn't care enough to look it up or verify because I don't use a chipper. There have been many changes to the rules over the years and I no longer feel the need to religously keep up with the changes.

 

BTW, a two sided chipper is real handy for getting a ball away from a tree that is standing on the wrong side of the ball. A two sided Bullseye can aproximate the same utility but suffers considerably because 3.5* loft cannot serve as well as 21* loft under such conditions.

 

 

 

Shambles

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Shambles I am like you on that I have not checked the rule specifically because I don't use a chipper. The guys that I know who use a chipper don't give two hoots about the USGA they are retired playing with their own groups and having fun. The backasswards shot that you mentioned I used to play a 4 iron lefthanded when I hit blades. I can also do the Ping putter toe trick and the flipped over wedge shot. Actually I practice these shots because it is fun to me and when I was younger I stayed in trouble a lot. I have gotten shorter and straighter with age

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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