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Would you play someone with non-conforming equipment for money?


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Just read the great article about TM making non-conforming drivers. I have no problem with the average golfer playing whatever equipment they want and I do think most golfers rarely play in tournaments. However, most golfers do play regularly for a little money. I have already heard golfers say that players with anchored putters are cheating and say they didn't want to play them for money in a regular game. I think this will only get worse once the ban goes into effect and if or when companies start producing non-conforming equipment.

 

So my question for y'all is: Would you play someone who uses non-conforming equipment for money?

 

My personal opinion is it's not a big deal because you might be able to buy distance but it's doubtful you can buy a short game or a putting stroke. However, If non conforming drivers start giving people 30 more yards I might change my opinion.

It's all about the short game, unless you can't keep it in play!

What's in my Bag:
Driver: Adams Speedline Super LS 10.5 with Excalibur T7+ tour stiff shaft
3 Wood: Adams Speedline Super LS 13 degree with Excalibur TFW Tour stiff shaft
Hybrid: Nickent 6DT 19 degree Aldilla Voodoo NV Stiff shaft
Irons: 4-9 KZG Tour Evolution with Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 tour 120 x flex shafts
Wedges:49 degree Dave Pelz wedge with a Nippon N.S. Pro Modus tour 120 x flex shaft. 54,64 Dave Pelz wedges with Rifle spinner shafts 59 Degree Scor wedge with rifle spinner shaft.
Putter: Bentinardi Ben Hogan Big Ben Center shafted 33 inches with best grips custom pistol putter grip.

Ball: Titleist Pro V1X, Callaway Hex Chrome +

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I'd agree Rickles. I don't play for money, but if I did it would be just something I'd factor into my decision I guess. I do think that if someone is playing non-confirming equipment then others should be made aware of it - and you probably should get unanimous agreement that it's okay at the get-go so there's no sniveling after the round by anyone who lost money.

 

Like you, I think my answer to the question would be "it depends" - I'd want to wait and see what kind of advantages these clubs may give.

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So my question for y'all is: Would you play someone who uses non-conforming equipment for money?

 

 

 

Bring it on. I am not playing for the rent money. Usually, all winnings go towards the bar bill. My losings also go towards the bar bill so I get "free beers" paid for with my money. I do occasionally make more than the bar bill though. I can buy the same equipment if I am so inclined. I play a 2002 4 wood and muscleback irons because I want to. I play against a guy with RocketBladeZ and RBZ2 Hybrids and FM. Same thing, When you campare the two it is almost like cheating and yet I make money most every weekend.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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I don't play for money but it wouldn't matter to me to each his own as you suggested, there are other factors involved in playing well. In golf the bottom line for me is someone having fun with it and if someone gets the ball down there... good for them. I also think there is a very big market for this.

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You wouldn't catch me doing it, but I don't think I'd care until it became a habit for lower handicapped golfers in money games... But since I'm not a low handicap, and I don't play for money, whatever...

Driver: TaylorMade R9 9.5* with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft

Fairway: TaylorMade R9 TP 13* with Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ-st X flex

 

UtilityWilson Staff FYbrid 19.5* Aldila RIP Sigma Stiff

 

Irons: Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 KBS Tour X flex 4-pw (soft-stepped)

Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour TC 50* (standard grind, bent to 51*) TT DG Spinner, 56* and 60* (tour grinds, bent to 55* and 59*) Dynamic Gold Wedge flex

Putter: Yes! Abbie Tour Forged Pro Series 33" 

Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour, Maxfli U4

 

Bag: Wilson Staff NeXus 100th Anniversary carry bag

 

Backup Irons: Wilson Staff FG-17 Tour Blades with TT Dynamic Stiff 3-PW

 

Backup Utility: Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron TT Dynamic Gold R300

 

Backup Putter: Pro Gear CG 100 33" (Pro Gear is what turned into Yes!)

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If it brings more people into the game then I am all for it.

Twitter @angrygolfhulk

Instagram angrygolfhulkDriver-Callaway Razr Fit 9.5* Stiff3 Wood-Taylormade R9 15* StiffHybrids 3,4,5 Rocketballz RegIrons 6-Gap Rocketballz RegSW-Cobra Trusty Rusty 55*LW-Taylormade Rac Black 60*Putter-Odyssey Sabertooth 33"Back up irons-Taylormade Rac Muscleback Forged 5-GW Rifle Shafts 6.0

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Could really care less about the putters, personally. But if we're talking huge distance gains with non-conforming drivers, well, I'd have somewhat of a problem with that. Can I buy the same clubs? Yes, but I also play tournaments and I'm not going to convolute that nor will I subject myself to trying to keep conforming and non-conforming separate. If we're talking a few yards, no biggie, but if it's a guy gaining 30 yards or something crazy like that, no. I play by the rules, personally, and if someone wants to cheat themselves, that's on them.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Good replies all.

It's all about the short game, unless you can't keep it in play!

What's in my Bag:
Driver: Adams Speedline Super LS 10.5 with Excalibur T7+ tour stiff shaft
3 Wood: Adams Speedline Super LS 13 degree with Excalibur TFW Tour stiff shaft
Hybrid: Nickent 6DT 19 degree Aldilla Voodoo NV Stiff shaft
Irons: 4-9 KZG Tour Evolution with Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 tour 120 x flex shafts
Wedges:49 degree Dave Pelz wedge with a Nippon N.S. Pro Modus tour 120 x flex shaft. 54,64 Dave Pelz wedges with Rifle spinner shafts 59 Degree Scor wedge with rifle spinner shaft.
Putter: Bentinardi Ben Hogan Big Ben Center shafted 33 inches with best grips custom pistol putter grip.

Ball: Titleist Pro V1X, Callaway Hex Chrome +

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I'll go with a little more expansion on the comment I made in the blog. All of this is in relation to the group of guys I play with on a regular basis, and yes we always play for money. It's usually "friendly" money, a big loss would be $40-$50 bucks, but typically is more in the $10-$20 range. Plus if you lose more than $10 then the guy owes you a drink, more than $20 and they buy something to eat as well.

 

If anyone in my group started using non-conforming equipment I would have no problem with that. I would however expect them to maintain an accurate handicap with the non-conforming clubs. So say the guy was a 12 handicap with regular clubs, now he starts playing non-conforming clubs and gets down to an 8. It's really no big deal to me how he got to an 8, but he will only get strokes at an 8 handicap instead of the 12 he would be with conforming clubs.

 

So for me I really don't care how you get to whatever handicap you play at as long as it's accurate. As long as the non-conforming clubs don't help someone sandbag they can play whatever they want and we will divvy up the strokes based their abilities with whatever they have in the bag.

 

Now when it comes time for the club championship they better all be conforming clubs or there will be an issue :)

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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I'll go with a little more expansion on the comment I made in the blog. All of this is in relation to the group of guys I play with on a regular basis, and yes we always play for money. It's usually "friendly" money, a big loss would be $40-$50 bucks, but typically is more in the $10-$20 range. Plus if you lose more than $10 then the guy owes you a drink, more than $20 and they buy something to eat as well.

 

If anyone in my group started using non-conforming equipment I would have no problem with that. I would however expect them to maintain an accurate handicap with the non-conforming clubs. So say the guy was a 12 handicap with regular clubs, now he starts playing non-conforming clubs and gets down to an 8. It's really no big deal to me how he got to an 8, but he will only get strokes at an 8 handicap instead of the 12 he would be with conforming clubs.

 

So for me I really don't care how you get to whatever handicap you play at as long as it's accurate. As long as the non-conforming clubs don't help someone sandbag they can play whatever they want and we will divvy up the strokes based their abilities with whatever they have in the bag.

 

Now when it comes time for the club championship they better all be conforming clubs or there will be an issue :)

 

I see your point regarding the handicap, but my question is how did he get to an 8 using non-conforming clubs as he can not play in sanctioned matches that would drop his official HC? Also if his HC did get down to an 8 officially using non-confoming would it not make sense that when he uses conforming clubs for the Championship he should play off of 12? blink.gif

 

AJ

WITB

Driver: Ping G25

FW: TM RBZ

Irons: Miura 57 Series w/KBS C-Taper

Wedges: Vokey SM4 52-08,56-12,60-04

Putter: Watch This Space

Ball: SRixon Z Star

Other: Tourstriker 7i

 

"Go Hard or Go Home"

 

"Do or Do Not. There is NO "TRY"

 

"Be normal, and the crowd will accept you. Be deranged, and they will make you their leader"

 

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I see your point regarding the handicap, but my question is how did he get to an 8 using non-conforming clubs as he can not play in sanctioned matches that would drop his official HC? Also if his HC did get down to an 8 officially using non-confoming would it not make sense that when he uses conforming clubs for the Championship he should play off of 12? blink.gif

 

AJ

 

I completely understand that using non-conforming clubs would completely negate having an official handicap, however when you enter scores there is not a place that asks if you are using conforming clubs. So I would have no problem having someone use non-conforming clubs all year in league and enter their scores. In theory they will still have a handicap based off their abilities with those clubs and it should be a fair match.

 

As for the club championship I would just assume that anyone choosing to use non-conforming clubs would understand they can't enter any sanctioned events. The club championship at my course is the closest I'll ever get to a true tournament, and that is the one place I would expect that nobody is using non-conforming clubs at. It's a handicapped event to determine which flight you play in, but then within the flight it's straight up scoring for two days. So in my opinion if you want to play in the club championship you have two choices. Play your non-conforming clubs all year long and have a lower handicap, then for the club champ you would enter in the flight based on the handicap you currently have, but you have to play conforming clubs. Or you just decide that you don't want to play non-conforming clubs and then it's a non-issue. But if you play non-conforming all year and get down to an 8, don't expect to be put into a higher flight just because you have to switch back to conforming clubs.

 

And let's be honest here, the club champ is not a sanctioned event. The USGA is nowhere around when we play it, even though our club chooses to play by their rules. If non-conforming really takes off and lots of guys are doing it then just make a non-conforming flight and use net score instead of gross.

 

But back to the original question, if one of the guys I played with used non-conforming clubs I would still have no issues playing them for money in our group. They just need to have an accurate handicap that reflects their abilities with the non-conforming clubs.

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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There is a lot of sense in this thread! Great thoughts peeps!

 

I concur. The problem with the equipment goes back to what Hacky said. There will always be some situation where someone will get angry that someone else is playing non-conforming clubs. For him it is the club championship. For others it would be playing for money. For others it would be even whether they had a handicap. That is the problem, there is always a line where it would not be ok and for that reason I won't play non conforming clubs. Because I aspire to lay serious amateur golf is another.

 

That being said, everyone else can play whatever they want. They just have to worry about the line where it becomes an issue to those they play with.

It's all about the short game, unless you can't keep it in play!

What's in my Bag:
Driver: Adams Speedline Super LS 10.5 with Excalibur T7+ tour stiff shaft
3 Wood: Adams Speedline Super LS 13 degree with Excalibur TFW Tour stiff shaft
Hybrid: Nickent 6DT 19 degree Aldilla Voodoo NV Stiff shaft
Irons: 4-9 KZG Tour Evolution with Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 tour 120 x flex shafts
Wedges:49 degree Dave Pelz wedge with a Nippon N.S. Pro Modus tour 120 x flex shaft. 54,64 Dave Pelz wedges with Rifle spinner shafts 59 Degree Scor wedge with rifle spinner shaft.
Putter: Bentinardi Ben Hogan Big Ben Center shafted 33 inches with best grips custom pistol putter grip.

Ball: Titleist Pro V1X, Callaway Hex Chrome +

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I concur. The problem with the equipment goes back to what Hacky said. There will always be some situation where someone will get angry that someone else is playing non-conforming clubs. For him it is the club championship. For others it would be playing for money. For others it would be even whether they had a handicap. That is the problem, there is always a line where it would not be ok and for that reason I won't play non conforming clubs. Because I aspire to lay serious amateur golf is another.

 

That being said, everyone else can play whatever they want. They just have to worry about the line where it becomes an issue to those they play with.

 

I completely agree with you on this quote. My personal choice would be to not play them, and each individual golfer will need to make that choice and accept the consequences one way or the other. I truly think that most people who play for money with their buddies, keep a handicap, play golf league, and play in year end tournaments wouldn't really be interested in non-conforming clubs. However I can think of 10 people off the top of my head that would most likely benefit from them. That being said they are also 10 people who very seldom, if ever, buy new equipment.

 

Personally I have no idea if non-conforming clubs can actually succeed in retail, and that's probably why I'm not the CEO of a major golf OEM :) But I do hope they come to market because I really don't see a big downside. Best case is they take off and we have more people enjoying and playing golf. Worst case is they flop and the OEM's lose some money. Either way 1% of the golfing community is going to be pissed off...

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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I read it on the blog yesterday and I commented under my name so instead of getting redundant on here I will say this. Like someone said "Club Championships" are not USGA regulated and clubs can form a "Committee" and play their own rules. As far as legal handicaps people like Rookie are going to be honest and play conforming equipment. As far as some stated some guys playing their low small stakes fun games know what each other plays like and can "handicap" accordingly. On big money matches it can also be "handicapped" also I mean for years we have made games revolving "grease" or no "grease" (or no spin lube as it is known now). I don't play many what I call money matches anymore but remember a real golf gambler figures he has the match won before he tees off no matter the factors. I personally will play conforming equipment (have never used "grease" even though in some circles my Dad has the dubious honor of being the man who discovered it) As far as the recreational golfer using non conforming equipment I could care two hoots less I play my game and they play their game. If it helps them enjoy and stay in the game so be it. Some of these retirees down here have nothing else to do but play golf and that keeps them going. The anchored putter thing has stirred things up a bit down here because some folks have back problems and the long putter keeps them playing. Heck all the young guys hit it a mile past me anyhow so what difference is more yards? I will make it up with my wedges and putter. In a nutshell I don't give a rats arse. Whats the USGA gonna do send hueys to arrest you and close the course or ban you from playing with your buddies? Screw them do what you want to do play your equipment stay in the game

Driver Homna  G1- X Stock Homna Regular shaft

4 wood Adams Tight Lies 

5 wood Adams Tight Lies 

24* Hybrid Adams A 10-OS Pro Launch Red R

Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW- Wilson Staff JP II 56* shaft unknown

Putter 1997 Santa Fe rusty as heck

 

 

 

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Hey Dude, Great to see ya!!

 

 

We've missed ya.

 

I know that you're busy with school, the family & the golf team.

 

I hope all's well with the team!!

 

Are you gonna drop in on the Crump Cup?

 

You're in my thoughts Bro

 

My Best,

Richard

 

Doing well brother. Golf season is starting to wind down. One more match, then league tournament, then district qualifier, then districts. Been busy looking into a new CC that I am fond of and joined as a trial member. Boys are both in sports now (gymnastics and soccer as well as keeping up golfing) Been a stranger for a bit but plan on setting time aside to post (and not just on twitter :) Thanks RP Be well my friend

Twitter @angrygolfhulk

Instagram angrygolfhulkDriver-Callaway Razr Fit 9.5* Stiff3 Wood-Taylormade R9 15* StiffHybrids 3,4,5 Rocketballz RegIrons 6-Gap Rocketballz RegSW-Cobra Trusty Rusty 55*LW-Taylormade Rac Black 60*Putter-Odyssey Sabertooth 33"Back up irons-Taylormade Rac Muscleback Forged 5-GW Rifle Shafts 6.0

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This is just the thread I was looking for! Thanks Rickles.

 

What a mess if this happens because how do you police it? Of coures I could care less what is going on when I play casual rounds - to date I hadn't though much about it in my weekly money game or league or the local tournaments that I played in - I've always assumed that the guys I'm playing with are using conforming equipment, carrying the proper number of clubs in their bag, etc.

 

If manufacturers start to release non-conforming equipment, now what? Of course I dont' care what a recreational player is doing but come on - how in the world are we ever going to police our league with 100 plus players teeing off from 2 in the afternoon until 5 or the money game that I play in where its us and not really run by anyone else? How about the upcoming city am? What are they going to do, have everyone send in their clubs the night before the tournament for inspection? It's nuts.

 

It's time now for the USGA to just pull it's head out of the sand and recognize that they need to free the PGA tour up to make its own set of rules (yes bifurification or however it's spelled) like all other major sports. Then it can focus its attention on simple rules for the rest of us. Simple, like you go look for your ball and can't find it you take a drop with a stroke penalty. Simple, like all equipment must be able to be swung and balls must be this size and weight. Simple, like any marks can be fixed on the green at any time (in fact we encourage you to fix them and then some.) Top, top amatures will adjust when it's time to switch over the rules that the pros play by - colleges use aluminum bats and the top players figure out how to use wood, the 3 point line is longer and court bigger in the NBA but guys seem to cope.

 

At first I was furious about the possibility of Manufacturers releasing non-conforming equipment because its going to cause issues for guys like me who want a fair fight at the level where we have a chance to compete - but now I think it's a great thing.

 

By the way unless its the ball that's illegal I'm thinking the gains won't be quite as spectacular as some would think.

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Ok so how many people out there are still using clubs that are now non-conforming? I stopped using my R7 (the non conforming version) when it became non-conforming, but the differences are very hard to spot and do some players even know its non conforming? That thing was long as well, so perhaps it should have been banned!

 

How many comps do people play were clubs are checked? When I played field hockey and cricket - both sticks and bats were checked before games when you reached a certain level - but in golf we are trusted more than perhaps any other game.....which is great but does cause any issue for the ignorant.

 

How many people have sharpened grooves on wedges beyond legal parameters?

 

It's easy with a belly putter, but with so much else it's not easy at all for players to even know the legality of clubs.

 

As for the question, yes I'd play people for money if they had non conforming equipment - I probably have already! on the rare occasion I play a money game though I'd never check someone else's clubs, I've yet to see a game decided by a club after all.......

 

 

 

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

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