RD McAvoy
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Posts posted by RD McAvoy
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On 3/3/2023 at 2:42 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:
Love to see how this thread as progressed and evolved. I would love to see a full test of all the swing speed systems head to head and see where some thrive for certain golfers or even swing speeds.
For those who went with stack vs others, what was the tipping point for you?
The Stack App. A person training MUST have a way to quantify their results. Period. I've trained for speed in the past using static devices with varying workout protocols. I really prefer the variety of The Stack protocols as it guides you along. Plain and simple it's the best out there.
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On 3/3/2023 at 11:26 AM, Getoffmylawn said:
AI AI AI.
SuperSpeed works, some, but it's basically just 3 different sticks and a one-size fits all training program. The Stack System is 30 different weight combination possibilities, prescribed by AI that tailors and adapts the training to the individual user...optimized training vs one-size-fits-all.
It's really not a competition, the only real knock against the Stack is a higher price point and the fact that you have to have a radar for it to work. I'd argue you need a radar for SuperSpeed too, but it's not technically a requirement.
One more reminder for the masses, I spent a little more time on this subject in a separate thread:
A user of any speed training protocol MUST have feedback else how would one quantify if their training is effective and producing the desired results? How would one be efficient with their training? Gotta have a way to measure speed and there's no way around it.
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On 3/8/2023 at 3:35 PM, MIHIGO26 said:
I'm fairly young and healthy and active so not too concerned about injuries, if I felt something was off that way I'd stop. I'm not really feeling 'it' the day after the swings like I would a gym session. I'm giving the swings everything I can with each and every one and haven't lost balance once.
I perhaps need to read more into swing intensity or ask my coach about it, as I've never realised it was even a thing to be honest.
Friendly pointer: ALWAYS be aware that you can injure a shoulder at anytime or age. It's vital to warm up the shoulders properly before speed training as they are pretty fine fibers. They can and do tear even with mild use. I've had three rotator (2 on Rht, 1 on Lft) / and bicep repairs on both to prove my point. Interestingly the shoulders can actually have LESS pain during activity v resting. You'll know if a shoulder is injured if it is painful during sleep or first thing in the morning. I use Therabands regularly to keep my shoulders strong and safe. Ice is your friend. All the best.
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On 1/30/2023 at 9:05 PM, Golfing Rabbit said:
Hi, my husband did a session on my profile by mistake, is there a way to remove that? Thanks
Divorce.
Just kidding. Message Sasho from within the app and he can fix it for you.
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10 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:
So you are saying avoid other regular exercise - like doing an elliptical machine which I use every morning - while doing the Stack because it activates the “slow” muscles?
im afraid if I do that I’ll gain fifteen pounds again…
Apologies for the length here. So I was only referring to weight work mentioned in the replied to thread not general exercise. High paced aerobic fitness activities like walking, running, skipping rope, etc. are fine especially on off days... actually full body burst training is Ok as well (like box jumps, skipping rope, etc. post Stack sessions or on off days) I use an older Nordic Track Skier every day or sometimes walk for 20 min prior to a Stack session to loosen up.
Physiology: Fast twitch muscle energy is stored within the fast twitch fibers themselves unlike slow twitch muscles that utilize energy from breaking down fat into glycogen (sugar) for energy. There are two types of fast twitch fiber: A and B or often referred to as X. Those A/X specific fibers are uniquely switchable and will behave as slow twitch if not retained or recruited in a burst training method or continually used in a burst format. Fast twitch muscles are anaerobic and have only approx 5-8 minutes / 24 hrs or less of energy storage. Once anaerobic capacity is exhausted the body shifts into aerobic training mode and begins recruiting slow twitch muscle. This is the exact opposite of what we want. This recruitment of A/X is what’s really going on with speed training, as well as laying down neural pathways, as the human doesn’t really increase the volume of fast twitch fiber. We're trying to turn aerobic behaving fast twitch fiber off and train it behave as fast twitch. Think of a pitcher losing ball velocity in late innings as they exhaust their fast twitch muscle energy. We want a full energy tank when we train to maximize results.
Advise not to hit golf balls before a speed session. You can afterwards but limit it to approx 25 balls. Again, you do not want to do anything that retrains the type B/X muscle to act as slow twitch once the anaerobic energy stores are degraded. Limited pull-ups or push-ups on off days are Ok but done rapidly (bursts) as described. Low weight (6-10 lbs) one or two 8 rep Wall-ball sessions are my favorite off day training as it addresses all of the same muscles groups plus balance work as in the golf golf swing. Not a fan of swinging a heavy or weighted clubs as it’s critical to allow the shoulder rotator cuffs and upper back muscles to rest and recover between sessions. That’s what the Stack session is for.
Last thing: I’ve recently become a big fan of StickMobility. Been very surprised at the increases in range of motion, less post workout aches, and ease of use. I tested / used a closet rod for a few weeks before buying the Sticks (use the purchase code: on the mark for a couple of free golf training classes) and you can also find bamboo sticks, used for centuries in Asia, on Amazon. Been all around speed training for 16 years and happy to share what I’ve learned but new things are discovered every day. Hope this helps. All the best.
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On 3/3/2023 at 11:40 AM, Getoffmylawn said:
I would 100% disagree with the notion that you can't do other forms of strength training or aerobic training while in a speed training program, so long as you properly rest and recover from both. My Stack training sessions are Monday Wednesday and Friday, and after each Stack session I hit the gym for 90 minutes. Those 90 minute workouts start with explosive movements (jumps, ball slams, etc) and then move to heavy free weights. I'm getting faster. It can be done.
I never said you "can't"; I said you shouldn't because once anaerobic storage capacity is exhausted — approx 6 minutes worth over 24 hours, with 24 hours to fully recover —- you’re in an aerobic state…. actually training slow twitch muscles v recruiting fast twitch. The very first energy stores the body uses up is the anaerobic stores. The main issue is, unless one keeps very close track of the time element most folks will be totally unaware they've shifted into aerobic work... until they notice fatigue which is way, way too late for speed training. There IS some anecdotal evidence that power lifting can benefit speed training but I'm unaware of any professional org that advocates that for speed work.
Aerobic work of any type is the exact opposite intent of the specificity of speed training. Not saying you aren’t supporting improving speed or your body overall or adding slow twitch muscle or strength as there are overlaps in any non-isolated muscle training. It greatly depends on individual PHYSIOLOGY prior to speed training. If one is highly athletic or in great shape some differences may not be readily apparent. I think jumping or wall-ball is not aerobic in general but If you’re doing free weights, which are generally aerobic in nature, you're likely to degrade speed training results. Doing everything in bursts is the best general policy. All of my knowledge is based upon work done by the USOC commonly referred as “The Bat Speed Study” and well documented in numerous academic publications. The Institutes of Sport in Australia and Sweden have years of data as does the old East Germans and Russians who did this in the 1950's. Kelvin Miahira in Hawaii was a brilliant source from his studies at the U. of Ha. Plenty of other sources if one seeks them out. All the best.
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16 hours ago, Feynman22 said:
Would echo some of the comments and absolutely combine the stack with some form of golf fitness - e.g. basic compound lifting with some explosive stuff (med ball slams and jumps). I think Medicine ball slams are some of the best bang for buck. You could make great progress with a ball and a set of resistance bands for example.
Worth trying something like FitforGolf for guidance, but there are a number of accounts that share great content on instagram for free (GolfWOD is another one).
I'd also combine it with consulting a pro who understands/specialises in adding distance. I can recommend a number of coaches on skillest who could potentially offer some advice. Without knowing anything about your specific scenario, you could likely add 10mph on easily.
Padraig Harrington is the best example of what's possible. He's added on a lot of speed and distance as he's joined the seniors tour, so age shouldn't be a limiting factor. Incredible what he's done really.Everyone slows with age because that's what humans do. Yes, one can add back speed at any age (I have) but there are physiological issues that cannot be overcome no matter what. It also takes longer to achieve speed results as well. That said adding strength BEFORE speed training OR in between Stack / lengthy protocols is fine... just not during. Speed training is pretty simple... it's max effort swing reps with alternating over-speed and under-speed aids of some form. In 2007 I used a blank shaft and SwingChains to gain 19 MPH. Today there are a variety of things out there. The Stack is the best because of the app and support not necessarily for the actual regimens. NOTE: When speed training, one SHOULD NOT combine ANYTHING that is not done as bursts either (i.e. reps as many as possible in 30 seconds or 8 - 10 reps in 8 seconds or less), other than flexibility training. Proper speed work as The Stack is doing two things: Laying down neural pathway to fire / sequence the muscles and recruiting Type B or X fast twitch muscles as well as overall strengthening. Lifting or weight room work that requires slow twitch muscles or is aerobic only teaches going slow and doing such will degrade the speed training. One CAN do small parallel things as a few reps of 8 - 10 lb wall ball tosses on an off day or flexibility at any time as tai chi, pilates, MobilityStick work (my personal favorite), yoga. High speed games like ping-pong boxing speed bag prolly won't hurt. Another is swinging a blank shaft 8 - 10 times on off days and this totally supports what The Stack is doing... just don't do more than about 10-12 reps. Avoid any other activity no matter how much sense it might make as It'll just slow progress and results. Have been there since 2007.
I can attest that John Novosel Jr's training works. The Stack does also. Baseball training group Driveline.com is going to get into golf and they have years of training big league hitters / pitchers. Mark Immelmann did a podcast with them in December I believe and it's worth a listen. All the best.
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On 2/27/2023 at 6:40 PM, Backofthecup said:
This program definitely does not work for everyone. I haven't had any luck despite being the perfect candidate. I'm over ½ thru the 2nd program and I've had a lot of frustrations with this program. Thinking I've found something and then it quickly fades away. It's a lot of time and investment so think hard before you put the $$$ to invest in this. These gains that people are posting are hard to believe. Don't know anyone that uses it another than our Head Pro. When they baselined his driver speed @ only 96 mph I should have known. Like my mother used to tell me, "If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is".
The first time I trained for speed in 2007 I failed to see ANY improvement for the first 6+ weeks. Morale: We're all different. While I've no idea your baseline stuff, your swing, heath, history, based on my experience here is what I think could help you. 1) In the APP go into the courses and do the Neural OverDrive course. Do not care about the speed results. 2) Get just a blank drive shaft with a grip preferably a driver or 3 wood shaft without the hosel to attach the clubbed. Cut about an 18" piece of flexibility tubing and slip if over the head end of the shaft so you have sort of a whip. It'll give you just enough resistance to activate your fast twitch muscles. Now, swing this a dozen times as absolutely as fast as possible then hit 10 range balls with your regular driver as fast as possible(do not care where the balls go). Repeat the session three times 3x a week for 3 weeks. Then go back to the Stack and see if you've made any gains. If Yes then continue with the Stack. If No go back to the shaft and driver protocol. Lastly hit your driver at the range as much as possible just as Karl Berkshire says. Eventually you'll improve but you first have to overcome either your mental or physical roadblock. All the best.
On 1/30/2023 at 9:05 PM, Golfing Rabbit said:Hi, my husband did a session on my profile by mistake, is there a way to remove that? Thanks
On 2/22/2023 at 10:47 AM, casey_0507 said:Just bought The Stack and a older model PRGR Black. Can't wait to get this started.
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On 3/2/2023 at 1:54 PM, WaffleHouseTour said:
New stacker here...
Firsts, impressed with the baseline test and exposure to the AI, and all the built in videos. Really like the automatic connection to my Mevo+ (seamless). Surprised at the length of rest time - but given my fumbling attempt to change the weights maybe that is actually a good thing.
Second, QUESTION I have of you veteran Stackers, if I know life/work is going to get in the way of when the AI tells me I should do my next session - should I do it a day earlier or a day later? (I was surprised after doing the baseline on Tuesday it is telling me to wait until Friday for my first foundations work out - and know I'll be gone for work...)
No! If anything take another day off. The body and brain need the downtime to recover. If you can't find the time to do a complete workout then get a blank shaft and swing that as fast a possible 2 sets of 10 - 12 swings. OR use the Stack with no weights in the same manner. Laying down the neural pathway to fire the fast twitch muscles is actually more important than brute strength. All the best.
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On 3/1/2022 at 5:48 PM, 88Buster said:
A new convert to the Stack here. I'm a bit different than most of the people on this thread as I am in my mid-60s and most definitely not swinging the Stack or my driver in the 100s LOL. Due to a series of unrelated but simultaneous issues, I was unable to touch my golf clubs for the last 2 years after having played regularly for most of my life. While getting out on the golf course is still not realistic at the moment, I am now able to practice again and am committed to rebuilding my game even if only at a practice facility for now. I started hitting balls and working on my short game in early January, and acquired the Stack in mid-February. My realistic goal was to get my driver speed back up to around 95 mph which is about 7-8 mph more than where I found myself in January, and to pick up about 1 club in my irons.
Anyway, my first Stack Foundation session was a bit of an anomaly as it was well above my baseline results. I returned to my 195g baseline in session 2 and have made steady progress each session thereafter and today in session 6 I finally got over the top of those session #1 numbers and up 6mph from baseline. That Stack gain appears to be translating to about +1mph gain in my short irons, +1.5mph in my mid-irons and TBD in my driver (after 2 years not swinging a club, I'm still working to get comfortable and consistent with my driver swing).
I find my biggest challenge has been the stress that practicing and using the Stack has had on my core muscles. I generally have been hitting balls on Monday-Wednesday-Friday since mid-January. I have experimented with incorporating my Stack training into those practice sessions or alternatively doing the Stack training on the off days. Either way, I've been struggling to recover between practice sessions and, while I'm not injured, I'm having to work hard to get warmed up on those hitting days. I think I may try taking the 2nd day of rest between Stack sessions and see if that helps (although it will be a challenge for me to show that level of patience
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Overdoing it physically and training to go slower by hitting a lot of range balls at targets. CHS training has zero to do with accuracy… that’ll come later and besides your swing is changing. Must have adequate recovery time for fast twitch muscles to store anaerobic energy… about 24 hours of rest / non-anaerobic activity. (Think days off for MLB pitchers) Focus on Stack on alternate days and hitting only a few range balls afterwards if you want. No more than a handful of full out rips with driver. Cut down to 24 or so shots in other range practice sessions. Practice in uber slow motion at home in front of a mirror if you wanna work on your swing. All the best.
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On 2/28/2022 at 4:14 PM, BMart519 said:
Your grit stays at 100 if you do it on either of the 2 days listed in your "optimal window" so you can do it every 3rd day and still maintain the score.
Mine doesn’t. Grit varies. Sending Stack an email.
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On 3/1/2022 at 5:48 PM, 88Buster said:
mid-February. My realistic goal was to get my driver speed back
Keep going!!! Totally normal “progress” and you’re just getting started! I lost 1 MPH after Foundation; now up 10 MPH at end of Neural 1. Trained for CHS in ‘07 (high teens eventually) and saw very nearly the same pattern. It just takes effort over time. Gaining CHS can take several days / weeks / months+ depending on age, overall physical condition at start, height, swing technique, etc. Just Ask DeChambeau. We are not at all the same so guard against giving up way, way too soon. Do not hit balls before a Stack session …. evuh. That wastes anaerobic energy from the fast twitch muscles we’re trying to recruit. Scale way back your range practice sessions… especially with the driver. I’ve added some TRX / wall ball / slam ball exercises to improve strength / power / conditioning post Stack workouts and it has helped me gain CHS. I was a sloth.
Good info inside the app on blending Stack with other stuff. You can email McKenzie and get a reply as well. All the best.
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On 2/14/2022 at 2:58 PM, deWiz Golf said:
Hi cnosil,
We only have one account here and this is the only account we are posting from.
Hopefully you'll receive responses from users who can tell their story on how they are using deWiz in their training. We see deWiz users finding value in connecting the deWiz numbers to how they swing when they hit it well, i.e., how long is the swing, what tempo is it and so on. By knowing your numbers you also have a tangible reference point. A great example is deWiz wedges as it puts a number to any wedge swing so you know how long your 9 o´clock is and you don't need guess any more.Another feature with the product we see being appreciated is the portability and easy of use that allow users to compare numbers between practice and on course play and learn how their swings differ.
There is a lot of new features in development, and you can follow us on social media to get tutorials and insights on how to use deWiz.
As we still are quite new to the market, it takes a little time to generate enough users and reviews but they are starting to come.
https://www.independentgolfreviews.com/dewiz-swing-modifier-training-aid-review/
Product sounds interesting and 15 years ago I had a Sunto watch for clocking club speed so things have progressed. Can a user establish swing "baselines" for the dewiz to metric against or is it merely capturing wrist location data from the current swing only? Will dewiz provide the angles of a swing plane backswing v through swing? Will dewiz provide data in a vertical plane such as at start of downswing as the hands should start down essentially vertically or through impact as the lead arm begins to elevate into the followthrough? Regarding hand speed, does dewiz have the capability to provide data for a specified location in the swing? (i.e. Is it a user decision to view their hand speed 1/2 way down or 1/4 of the way down, etc? I may have missed this but will dewiz capture arm / forearm rotation? All the questions I have at the moment without actually seeing dewiz person but sounds like a useful tool. Thanks!
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On 8/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, Measure2x said:
I totally agree with you. Just don't have the $350 at the moment, so I'm living vicariously through you guys.
One thing I think is interesting is the Stack System seems to use weights much heavier and lighter than SuperSpeed. I haven't noticed people talking about that aspect on the various threads. I think Sasho/Jertson must be taking a different approach. I trust them more than anyone else.
Based on my observations:
SpeedSpeed goes from ~255-262 grams (Green light stick) to 335-343g (Red heavy stick)
Stack System goes from 48g cap/152g shaft=200g with no weights all the way up to 480g (200g stick w/280g weights on). 280g is the heaviest I've seen in any of the posted protocols.
There is a significant difference between the two systems. I think that's interesting and I'd love to hear more from Sasho on why they think such heavy weights are still effective.
Keep posting results. These are super motivational. Attached are pics of my poor man's version. I might have to plunk down the big bucks and join the club.
Over/under training goes back to an US Olympic study for women’s softball. That study revealed hitting 10 ball sets 3 times a week with max effort using a bat 10% heavier, 10% lighter, normal bat, increased bat speed considerably. Sooooo, based on the bat speed study, my Ping driver weighing 328gms, thus the max speed training weight would be 360gm. Of course it’s fluid and student dependent which is where the app comes in. I’m confident Sasho has more science than me but this is the basics.
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On 8/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, Measure2x said:
I totally agree with you. Just don't have the $350 at the moment, so I'm living vicariously through you guys.
One thing I think is interesting is the Stack System seems to use weights much heavier and lighter than SuperSpeed. I haven't noticed people talking about that aspect on the various threads. I think Sasho/Jertson must be taking a different approach. I trust them more than anyone else.
Based on my observations:
SpeedSpeed goes from ~255-262 grams (Green light stick) to 335-343g (Red heavy stick)
Stack System goes from 48g cap/152g shaft=200g with no weights all the way up to 480g (200g stick w/280g weights on). 280g is the heaviest I've seen in any of the posted protocols.
There is a significant difference between the two systems. I think that's interesting and I'd love to hear more from Sasho on why they think such heavy weights are still effective.
Keep posting results. These are super motivational. Attached are pics of my poor man's version. I might have to plunk down the big bucks and join the club.
I'm no Phd but I've trained for CHS and have had superb gains in the past. The answer to your question is it's pure biomechanics. The early 1070's US Olympic blue ribbon study committee referenced the "Bat Speed" of female softball players. They discovered that swinging a bat 10% heavier v normal, 10% lighter v normal, normal bat ten reps each / three - 5 days a week, as fast as can be done, consistently elevated bat speeds for all players. This training is referred to as "overweight/underweight" burst training. MLB has used similar training for years.
BUT it's not about the training "club" weight necessarily as it is how it's applied. You train for speed by going faster.... in everything! In other words, 1st because the brain has no reference and lacks knowledge it has to be taught what speed really is. As training moves along a player lays down a new neural pathway to fire/sequence the muscles/motions to generate increased velocity. Humans LEARN that fastest while using a lighter weight training object. At the same time we are trying to recruit a subset of fast twitch muscle fiber named Fast Twitch B or X. This portion of overall fast twitch fiber is unique as it will behave as true anaerobic fiber (energy stored within the muscle) OR it will "switch" and behave as slow twitch which is not switchable. We are by nature a sedentary creature conserving energy and thus prone to using / recruiting fast twitch B/X as non-fast twitch fiber. Think of a marathoner trying to run a 60m sprint. Or the inverse of a sprinter trying to run a marathon. Two completely different training approaches though both are running. This is similar to what happens in golf.
So how does one recruit fast twitch B/X muscle? 1st, everything must be done in bursts; as fast as possible; even to the point of losing stability and control. We learn best while "over training & failure.” Think High Intensity Training.... as many reps in 8 seconds or 8 - 10 reps with minimal rest between reps as fast as possible. 2nd, Using a lighter/heavier/normal "club" (over/under training) and something that replicates the same general motion. 3rd, players brains must have feedback to verify that performance in improving thus speed radar is essential.
Final thoughts: With speed training sometimes "less is more" as rest is essential for both the brain and the muscles. (Humans only have about 7min of anaerobic capacity stored within fast twitch muscle fiber. It takes about 24 hours to replenish it so don't hit a bunch of golf balls before/after speed training.) If one wants to swing slow(er) then train slow… use primarily a heavier driver v normal or lift weights. (Speed is
not the same as power. Think whine RPM v engine torque.) It's why The Stack System has a wide range of weights to zero in on the most effective mixture. Having trained for speed in the past, the SS software is intriguing and makes perfect sense. All the best.
Addendum: The many variable weight combinations of the SS are brilliant as not every user has the identical strength / speed demands or will develop at the same rate over time, have like gains. Having a handy piece of software do all the results tracking is far easier and effective than manually as I've done in the past.
The Stack System Review and Progress Thread
in Member Reviews
Posted · Edited by RD McAvoy
Disagree if you want but that doesn't make anything I've posted inaccurate. BTW, I think you completely misunderstand what I'm saying and I've never heard Sasho mention lifting while he is Stacking. So here are some fun facts: Weight training is primarily aerobic in nature.... the opposite of the purpose The Stack is intended to do. Weight work CAN also be non-specific anaerobic in nature if done in burst modes. Fast twitch muscles possess a finite energy capacity stored within the muscle fibers themselves and even the highest trained individuals (Olympians) have merely 6 - 8 minutes IN TOTAL capacity. Once human anaerobic energy stores are consumed the body switches to aerobic muscle energy (glycogen from fat) and the fast twitch muscles are done as they no longer have an energy source. Approximately 24 hours is required to replenish anaerobic energy. (Gee, wonder why the Olympians take full days off during the games after a competition? Why MLB pitchers run out of gas? Boxers lose their punch velocity / force? Etc.) This is simple and basic human physiology. Further, as to the time length of training, a total Stack workout may require 30 minutes but the actual Stack exercises (swings) themselves require only about 1 second each. There's plenty of unused anaerobic capacity for the fast twitch muscles to consume during Stack training.... so long as one hasn't previously used up their anaerobic capacity lifting weights or in a gym beforehand! Finally, aerobic activity will not recruit switchable fast twitch type B or X fiber. That's an indisputable fact and that is exactly what The Stack System is coaching users to do. I began studying this topic in 2004 and ALL of these facts are out there in numerous scientific articles, research, journals, and books dating from the 1950's.