GolferXY

So true! But then again, they take say, 20 minutes to finish a hole let's break that down. Scratch: Driver. Walk to the ball in the fairway. Primp your gear, check your yardage, stand over the shot, blah blah blah. Total, 5 minutes. Walk to green, take 10 minutes to finish the hole. 5 minutes or so walking from tee to green. Total 20 minutes. Too long. Speed it up please. Weekend warrior: Driver: search for 5 minutes for your drive lost in the woods. Throw another ball out onto the fairway 20 yards further toward the green. Hit the ball way left and way short. Search for the ball. Scull the wedge. Chip it to 30 feet and 3 putt. 10 minutes walking tee to green. Total 18 minutes. Too long, but the only way to get faster is to get better. Both of these scenarios are illustrative of what I have witnessed hundreds of times on the course. The scratch golfer has the seemingly easier task. He/she only has to tweak their set up, they've already done [and are doing] the hard work on their game. The new golfer has to want to improve, have the time and finances to pay for it, and have the athleticism to accomplish it. It seems that you have a bias against those who play slow even though they don't have to. I do too! They appear to expect the whole world to slow down to their pace. But you also seem ready to overlook the slow play of any but the best players. I don't blame, I just witness.

To insinuate that I am professing a "bad thing" is an opinion I disagree with and a charge that I deny. I invite you to reread my post. I did not generalize that high handicaps or skills were the cause. To the contrary, I stated that the most egregious slow play was because of those who choose to play slow. Denying that the issues of lack of skill don't impact pace of play is, in my experience, wrong. In addition, you imply rather directly that I am in some way making an ethical statement regarding those whose skills can, shall we say, be improved in order to help pace of play. I make no ethical judgements regarding those folks. They pay their money, they get to play, and I wouldn't change that, ever. I was a self described hacker once. Denying the effect of skill level on pace of play is your right. It doesn't make you wrong or mean you have some agenda. But it doesn't make you right, either. I envy you playing all those rounds in all those places and your pace of play not being affected by the less skilled golfers ahead of you. I would wish that my experience was similar, but unfortunately it hasn't been. This doesn't make me wrong, either.

Excellent post, good to hear from someone who is on the starter/marshal side. You definitely bring up issues, especially working with the groupings, that I haven't dealt with.

Well, of course. I think most can agree on that. Seems a simple thing, right? Play is slow because people are playing slow. The disagreement, and there is one, is what makes these players slow. I agree that the most egregious slow players are slow because they play slow, not because of physical or mental limitations. They choose to be slow for whatever reason. Add this to a lack of skill, and you get the never-ending round of golf. However, you aren't going to convince me of your argument by citing personal experience because I have a little experience too, and whether through a difference of opinion or a difference in kind, I have seen 5 plus hour rounds on courses with a marshal and a policy. You can argue that the marshals aren't doing their job if they allow players to fall too far behind and you'd be right. However, and maybe this is just a Northwest thing, we don't have marshals on every course, and most courses that do have marshals don't have them every day. It's tough to schedule volunteers when we get so much inclement weather I guess, and then when the sun shines the courses are brutalized by the influx of people and the marshals are overwhelmed. I think many of the marshals, being volunteers for the most part, are hesitant to do more than give a warning. I've only seen one group asked to leave, and that was because of over indulging in alcohol, never for slow play. The majority of slow playing golfers would benefit from advice on etiquette and a reality check about the state of their game. Rules won't stop a 25 handicap from thinking he should play like the guys he sees on TV, or speed up the guy who's taking a business call on his cell when it's his turn to play. Anyone seen the "be right there" finger salute from the golf cart? My personal hackle raiser is when all four folks in the foursome in front of me drive or walk to the first ball, wait for the golfer to hit, then go to the next, and so on. Ugh! A close second is watching a foursome of folks waiting for the group in front to clear, waiting for an unrealistic amount of time as though not aware of yardage, only to hit a wayward shot that doesn't get within a hundred yards of where the previous group had been. That can happen every once in a while, it's happened to me. But that shouldn't happen on every hole. Let's not forget the elephant in the room. I've read most of this forum and I may have missed the reference, but has anyone mentioned alcohol and it's affect on speed of play? Wow! Nothing makes a golf game or an attitude go south as quick and easy as a beer or two too many.

You know, every time I read that title I think of the line in "Unforgiven". Little Bill, looking up at the business end of a double barrell shotgun: "I don't deserve this" William Munny, pointing said shotgun: "Deserve's got nuthin' to do with it".

There it is. Well said.

Exactly! And while we're at it, let's make alley bumpers in bowling the standard! Nope, I don't mean it. I don't bowl either.

The rules of Golf are not designed for tour professionals, they're created for all golfers regardless of ability, status, competition. That said, I play it as it lies, but would nave no heartburn if the USGA were to change the rules. I try to play by the rules as written - try, because I don't presume to be an expert. Until that time, I hit out of divots and like it! It's just another chance to embarrass myself and get a laugh out of my friends!

Tee boxes. Talk about unfair! If I had a magic wand I would require that all tee boxes presented the perfect lie - flat, no divots, good footing not hampered by others divots [or craters in many cases]. Yep

The game is not merely hard. It is diabolical! I swear it was invented just so we could laugh at each other over a shot of whiskey.

Sounds like maybe someone slammed their club in frustration?

Golf was invented by a bunch of Scotsmen strolling through the heather. The concept of play it as it lies is as old as the game itself because playing conditions were rough, courses were carved out of the gorse with rakes, hoes and shovels. Even a good lie was a bad lie, or so I'm led to believe. Now even the poorer courses are designed, mowed, maintained. Maybe one would think that there should be an expectation of a good lie when you hit that centercut drive. That just isn't the game. Hidden hazards, hitting through the fairway into a patch of brush, swales, hardpan, etc. happen even on the best shots even on the best maintained courses. I like the challenge of hitting out of a divot. It wasn't always that way! But knowing that golf will try men's souls, I still come back again and again. If I wanted a perfect lie on every shot, I'd haunt the local Top Golf or similar with mats to hit off of. Gimme the dirt and grass and hazards and hanging lies. Give me trees and mud and hard sand bunkers. Play it as it lies, my flag flies high! Just fix your divots guys.

That is an idea! I wonder how that would affect muni's that can only survive by cramming as many people through as possible.

Distance may not be a problem if the players are making good contact. If you have a foursome spraying from treeline to treeline, or topping the ball down the fairway, of course this will slow down play. I hazard a guess that lack of distance may not be the big issue, but there are plenty of issues to bat around. And distance secondary to overall poor ball striking does most certainly affect the length of the round. I wonder how many people playing on that world class course you are privileged to play on are poor ball strikers. Maybe a few, I'll grant you. But my experience is that most folks paying to play a top notch course generally have some game. And that course will generally have marshals expediting play.

I and my partners play ready golf tee to green, the exceptions being birdie (or better) golfer has the honor on the tee, and furthest putt goes first. If we aren't held up by groups in front, we finish in 4 hours easily. Waiting for the group in front to clear can be a tricky maneuver because if I hit my best shot I'll hit into them. Problem is I rarely hit that perfect shot, so time wasted. Embarrassed much? Bigger issue is the team golfers where everyone in the foursome gathers around the guy hitting, then moves as an elk herd to the next guy's ball. Frustratingly familiar around these parts. There are millions of new golfers since covid, most of whom look like rookies facing that hall of fame pitcher. Strike one! Foul ball! Dribbler to first base! Maybe things will improve once golfers get a bit better, too. An easy first step would be for all courses to post that we play ready golf, and what that means. Have the starter point it out especially on busy days. Golf publications, social media, and golf sportscaster could and should also mention in in broadcast, podcasts, etc. Make our sport better and more enjoyable for everyone from a first timer to a scratch. JMO.