LICC

Streamsong is great. I’ve not been to Bandon but I’m guessing it Streamsong is not at that level. But it has the same course architects plus Gil Hanse, and it’s all about the golf. Modern style resort hotel rooms and pretty good food at the restaurants. The Red course is really great and the others are very good. The Black has a different look and feel than the other two, a bit more Australian sandscape style. If you stay there, you are stuck to the resort for the trip because you are far away from anything else.

I watched some of the Euro Ladies Tour event the last two days on Golf Channel, being played at Ferry Point. Oh goodness does the course show beautifully on television. The wonderful mounding and rolls in the fairways, the bunkering, the views of the NYC skyline, the river, and the Whitestone Bridge are outstanding. It’s too bad Trump’s name is attached to this course otherwise it would and should get high level PGA Tour or majors/Am Championships to be played here. I’ve played a decent number of the Top-100 ranked public courses and Ferry Point is underrated. Should be in the top 50.

Eamon Lynch skewered the latest LIV players nonsense: By emphasizing the name recognition of its competitors, LIV is creating a false narrative: these stars are worthy of points and the circuit is being treated unfairly. But individual players are irrelevant to the question of ranking points. What matters is whether the tour on which they compete complies with OWGR rules. LIV doesn’t and has signaled no intent to do so, instead pretending that its players came from other tours with an inalienable right to points. … The gaslighting efforts of Mickelson’s colleagues are most feverishly being directed to the absence of world ranking points. LIV events meet almost none of the established criteria to qualify for points. Undeterred, MBS’s flaxen-haired finger puppet, Greg Norman, seems to think those rules don’t apply and has dispatched players hither and yon to insist that LIV receive immediate accreditation, a process that usually takes up to two years.

Having a number of higher purse, limited field events is fine and probably needed to counter LIV, but I think making them have no cut is a mistake. The cut is a big differentiator from LIV that gives more credibility to the merit of PGA Tour events.

Many of the LIV golfers have become even more unbearable than ever. McDowell's latest comments were just entitled whining. Mickelson, who was popular, has shown himself to be an unlikeable narcissist. Garcia, Koepka, Poulter, Westwood, Reed- all have been incredibly boorish and unlikeable. I don't miss seeing any of them.

MENA is sanctioning the LIV events as their own. The LIV events are going forward as structured. Thus a change to the MENA format.

How is that nonsense? The scheduled LIV events are using the format they said they are using. 54 holes, no cut, shotgun starts. That is a change for the MENA tour.

LIV suing OWGR would likely further delay it ever getting any points.

It would be a frivolous lawsuit but that wouldn't stop Norman or his handlers. OWGR would more likely decertify MENA for changing its format that give the points. MENA was approved as a developmental tour with 72 hole events and other criteria that LIV doesn't follow.

I still don’t see what people are criticizing the PGA Tour for.

The tour claims that LIV Golf has executed a campaign to pay its players "astronomical sums of money to induce them to breach their contracts with the Tour in an effort to use the LIV Players and the game of golf to sportswash the recent history of Saudi atrocities and to further the Saudi Public Investment Fund's Vision 2030 initiatives." The PGA Tour argued that LIV Golf officials have advised players that their agreements with the PGA Tour are unenforceable, while entering into their own agreements with LIV players that "impose contractual restrictions on the LIV Players more onerous in scope and duration than any of the Tour regulations they challenge."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/29/pga-tour-countersues-liv-golf-in-antitrust-fight.html The PGA Tour filed a countersuit against LIV Golf late Wednesday, alleging that the Saudi-backed upstart league is guilty of anti-competitive practices.

I heard Michael Breed the other day address a similar argument. His view was- the quality of the players don't matter if the format of the event isn't up to the standard of receiving points. What if LIV decided to play par-3 courses? It doesn't matter how talented the players are, that wouldn't be justifiable to receive OWGR points.

His quotes here don't seem to be consistent with Monahan's prior statements or positions.

I think the thread has been fine as of late. If someone doesn't like the commentary, don't read it. This potential Fox deal is interesting. LIV would actually pay Fox rather than vice versa.

The increased revenues are from new media rights deals that were just put in place in the past year.

This is a good point getting missed. Qualifying is a big factor in being eligible for OWGR points.

I don't necessarily disagree. Based on the differences in format, I would think LIV could justifiably get 10-25% the level of points of an average PGA Tour event.

What do you think Monahan should have done differently? And don’t say meet with LIV to work together. That was never an option.

That is not business success. That is throwing massive amount of money at people. A predatory competitor with unlimited money and a business objective not predicated on profit is a big threat.

What success? LIV's viewership numbers are rock bottom. The PGA Tour's viewership has been consistently strong for years and its revenues higher than ever.

It's not semantics. He still has to play well and try hard to finish 20th. If he doesn't, he gets paid less. The anti-LIV arguments are not just about being against something different. There is the political aspect of its owners, which I won't go into because the moderators have asked not to, and there is the heavy-handed manner that LIV is disrupting the game. Criticizing the lack of playing merit earnings of LIV compared to the PGA Tour is not just disliking something different for difference sake, it goes to the core of viewing competitive golf.

It's not the same at all. Kisner is acknowledging he doesn't have the length to win some events. That does not mean his is coasting or not trying his hardest to do as best he can. You totally missed the comparison. PGA Tour golfers are paid each tournament based on how well they perform. Judge is not paid game by game based on his performance that day. It's apples and oranges. By LIV golfers getting guaranteed money and their tournament winnings are a draw on the guaranteed money, they have less pressure to perform in the tournaments, as @chisag said.

That is not what Kisner said. Judge and Tatum aren't paid by the number of hits they get or baskets made, with a drawdown of guaranteed money. That is an invalid comparison. On the other hand, baseball and other team sports histories are replete with players that have their best years in the last year of their contracts.

I don't know about the DP fields, but saying LIV is comparable to the 5 lowest strength of field events of the PGA Tour may be accurate. I don't think that adds much to the argument to give LIV OWGR points.