HZRDUS Smoke Black vs. RDX

[DiscipleofPenick]

Does anyone know if there's a major difference in these shafts? I looked on the Project X website and GolfWorks, and it looks like they have identical profiles (torque and launch) I see the RDX has some kind of aerospace carbon fiber in it. 

[NM01]

The rdx is the updated version of the smoke black which was an updated version of the original black. 
 

The feel in these shafts improved with each release. The rdx is 1g lighter which is basically nothing. One would need to see the EI profile to tell how what the differences are in the two version. When the original hzrdus line was designed they focused purely on performance and feel wasn’t taken into consideration. They focused on that in the smoke line and in my limited testing with then rdx version it’s been improved even more. 

[DiscipleofPenick]

@RickyBobby_PR thanks. don't know if you saw any of my other posts but I'm looking at the Sub70 Pro Driver and both versions of the Smoke Black are their stock offering. I swing a Diamana White in my current driver, so it seems like this shaft would actually work well for me. They are both low launch shafts, while the RDX has just a bit more torque 3.1 to 3.5. And it's a little lighter so there's some speed too. 

The other shaft option that is a $40 upcharge is the ProForce V2 Black. That's got 2.9 torque, but is a mid launch. Also a few grams lighter than my white. I like to hit the ball high, so that doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't balloon. I'm not considering the Fuji Ventus or any of the Graphite Design offerings, as a big reason for going to the Sub70 is to keep costs down.

[NM01]

29 minutes ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

@RickyBobby_PR thanks. don't know if you saw any of my other posts but I'm looking at the Sub70 Pro Driver and both versions of the Smoke Black are their stock offering. I swing a Diamana White in my current driver, so it seems like this shaft would actually work well for me. They are both low launch shafts, while the RDX has just a bit more torque 3.1 to 3.5. And it's a little lighter so there's some speed too. 

The other shaft option that is a $40 upcharge is the ProForce V2 Black. That's got 2.9 torque, but is a mid launch. Also a few grams lighter than my white. I like to hit the ball high, so that doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't balloon. I'm not considering the Fuji Ventus or any of the Graphite Design offerings, as a big reason for going to the Sub70 is to keep costs down.

By Diamana white I’m assuming the Diamana white board.

Using torque, flex or the description of low launch/low spin to pick a shaft or even swing speed is fruitless. Torque like stiffness has no industry standard, it’s measured differently between brands and also in many cases different machines. Torque is more about feel than anything and two shafts with same torque but with different profiles even from the same manufacturer will feel different.  Shafts don’t spin so and launch is based on club delivery. Shafts can impact how one delivers the club because of feel, loading, etc
 

To be honest there’s not way to tell if either of the smoke versions will work for you. Based on my experience with the Diamana whiteboard compared to the smoke black I prefer the whiteboard. The black rdx is a nice improvement in feel but for me it doesn’t work with my swing and many others I know that swing 105+
 

You would need to find somewhere to demo the shafts to see what you think about them 

[CRW]

I thought the Smoke Black in a similar weight/flex was softer than the original Black. I liked the original and didn’t care for the smoke. I played the RDX in TX in several weights/clubs and found them to be more like the 6.5 flex in the original Black. 
 

But like everything else, you need to hit them to know if it will work for you. 

[DiscipleofPenick]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

By Diamana white I’m assuming the Diamana white board.

Using torque, flex or the description of low launch/low spin to pick a shaft or even swing speed is fruitless. Torque like stiffness has no industry standard, it’s measured differently between brands and also in many cases different machines. Torque is more about feel than anything and two shafts with same torque but with different profiles even from the same manufacturer will feel different.  Shafts don’t spin so and launch is based on club delivery. Shafts can impact how one delivers the club because of feel, loading, etc
 

To be honest there’s not way to tell if either of the smoke versions will work for you. Based on my experience with the Diamana whiteboard compared to the smoke black I prefer the whiteboard. The black rdx is a nice improvement in feel but for me it doesn’t work with my swing and many others I know that swing 105+
 

You would need to find somewhere to demo the shafts to see what you think about them 

Yes, White Board 70X. I swing at 107, though I agree with you that figure will only help me get in the ball park for a shaft. I think the only place near me I could try shafts is Golf Galaxy, without having to pay for a fitting.

[NM01]

48 minutes ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

Yes, White Board 70X. I swing at 107, though I agree with you that figure will only help me get in the ball park for a shaft. I think the only place near me I could try shafts is Golf Galaxy, without having to pay for a fitting.

Good thing is the smoke rdx and smoke black were no upcharge offerings so they should be available at GG

[sanzo]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:29 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

By Diamana white I’m assuming the Diamana white board.

Using torque, flex or the description of low launch/low spin to pick a shaft or even swing speed is fruitless. Torque like stiffness has no industry standard, it’s measured differently between brands and also in many cases different machines. Torque is more about feel than anything and two shafts with same torque but with different profiles even from the same manufacturer will feel different.  Shafts don’t spin so and launch is based on club delivery. Shafts can impact how one delivers the club because of feel, loading, etc
 

To be honest there’s not way to tell if either of the smoke versions will work for you. Based on my experience with the Diamana whiteboard compared to the smoke black I prefer the whiteboard. The black rdx is a nice improvement in feel but for me it doesn’t work with my swing and many others I know that swing 105+
 

You would need to find somewhere to demo the shafts to see what you think about them 

Sorry, do you mean that this shaft is more suitable for under 105 then?  

[NM01]

1 hour ago, sanzo said:

Sorry, do you mean that this shaft is more suitable for under 105 then?  

Swing speed is far down the list for choosing a shaft. Forgot what thread it was posted in but there was a social melds post of a long drive hitter talking about using a shaft labeled as ladies and many of the guys on long drive tour using a “ladies” flex shaft.

Feel and balance of the shaft with head combo, the weignt and how all those work with one’s swing is what determines whether a shaft works. If the weight and feel which is also going to come from the shafts stiffness profile are a match for the golfer then the results will show up in the performance 

[sanzo]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Swing speed is far down the list for choosing a shaft. Forgot what thread it was posted in but there was a social melds post of a long drive hitter talking about using a shaft labeled as ladies and many of the guys on long drive tour using a “ladies” flex shaft.

Feel and balance of the shaft with head combo, the weignt and how all those work with one’s swing is what determines whether a shaft works. If the weight and feel which is also going to come from the shafts stiffness profile are a match for the golfer then the results will show up in the performance 

Ok  it's just I was at my very first driver fitting this week- and the hour passed like 20 minutes lol , but I ended up with a shaft that was probably last on any list I had , I thought maybe a 60g R or stiff shaft  suppose it was actually a 5.5 60g shaft but it was ' low trajectory ' ie low launch , the Rdx black  it was not on the range but Into the monitor , so no real idea of ball flight  but iv read  it's for a faster ,more aggressive swinger' to get the most out of it and I don't think I'm that ( 94) so I'm a bit worried about it , even tho he said it was best for me  will just have to wait and see when it arrives I suppose 

[NM01]

3 hours ago, sanzo said:

Ok  it's just I was at my very first driver fitting this week- and the hour passed like 20 minutes lol , but I ended up with a shaft that was probably last on any list I had , I thought maybe a 60g R or stiff shaft  suppose it was actually a 5.5 60g shaft but it was ' low trajectory ' ie low launch , the Rdx black  it was not on the range but Into the monitor , so no real idea of ball flight  but iv read  it's for a faster ,more aggressive swinger' to get the most out of it and I don't think I'm that ( 94) so I'm a bit worried about it , even tho he said it was best for me  will just have to wait and see when it arrives I suppose 

The marketing information from companies is marketing but just a general guideline. We can use the low launch and low spin label if shafts. Unless someone has a late release they aren’t going to be seeing that lower launch or spin. Same for the fast aggressive swinger it’s about a feel one the shaft and how it works with one’s swing. 
 

I am over 100mph and have an agressive transition, the original hzrdus black would be a better fit on paper than the original hzrdus yellow. Yet in my fittings the hzrdus yellow was a better fit along with other shafts that have a higher balance point.

When it comes to indoor fittings you have to have a baseline with your current setup, compare the numbers with the options being used on the fitting and see if there are improvements not just with total distance or carry distance but the numbers that lead to them. Ball speed, launch, spin, peak height and descent angle along with dynamic loft since you can’t see the actual ball flight. And also how each setup feels.

Where did you get fit at?

[sanzo]

34 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The marketing information from companies is marketing but just a general guideline. We can use the low launch and low spin label if shafts. Unless someone has a late release they aren’t going to be seeing that lower launch or spin. Same for the fast aggressive swinger it’s about a feel one the shaft and how it works with one’s swing. 
 

I am over 100mph and have an agressive transition, the original hzrdus black would be a better fit on paper than the original hzrdus yellow. Yet in my fittings the hzrdus yellow was a better fit along with other shafts that have a higher balance point.

When it comes to indoor fittings you have to have a baseline with your current setup, compare the numbers with the options being used on the fitting and see if there are improvements not just with total distance or carry distance but the numbers that lead to them. Ball speed, launch, spin, peak height and descent angle along with dynamic loft since you can’t see the actual ball flight. And also how each setup feels.

Where did you get fit at?

McGuirks in Belfast NI, they had a good setup and large premises/ stock.   I did a bit or research beforehand but I really wouldn't know about numbers for spin, launch angle, ballspeed ect or what to look for   tho the Avg.height was 96 ft he said, so that's not too low. He said the dispersion and AVG. Distance was better than my old driver and better than with the ventus shaft and - better than the stiff HZ.black one ,so we went with the 5.5 60g one  and right now j have to trust the thing I was recommended for anc just play it as is  btw- I always thought my flight was a little too high so maybe the ' low trajectory '  would not make it go  low low  but lower than what I had before  which is good

[NM01]

3 hours ago, sanzo said:

McGuirks in Belfast NI, they had a good setup and large premises/ stock.   I did a bit or research beforehand but I really wouldn't know about numbers for spin, launch angle, ballspeed ect or what to look for   tho the Avg.height was 96 ft he said, so that's not too low. He said the dispersion and AVG. Distance was better than my old driver and better than with the ventus shaft and - better than the stiff HZ.black one ,so we went with the 5.5 60g one  and right now j have to trust the thing I was recommended for anc just play it as is  btw- I always thought my flight was a little too high so maybe the ' low trajectory '  would not make it go  low low  but lower than what I had before  which is good

Most people won’t know the numbers, the fitter when appropriate during the fitting would explain what he/she is seeing in swing, ball flight and numbers and shown the golfer the difference so the golfer could make a decision based on data and what they felt and/or saw. Sounds like the fitter did that.

i agree that you will have to or should trust what you went with. Lots of people have gone to a fitting and come out with some head, loft, shaft or a combo of them they didn’t expect. Usually based on old, outdated and incorrect “conventional wisdom” that has been debunked with data and technology.