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David LD

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  1. Like
    David LD got a reaction from nvizble1 in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    Bryson's one length heads do NOT all weigh the same -they are the same length but each head is subsequently heavier and they are significantly heavier than standard iron heads and that's direct from Cobra's tour department - I spoke with them a few years ago when they had first come out because I wanted to try making my set of pro blades one length -they told me I couldn't do it with out heavily modifying them because the heads would be too light so I'd lose a lot of distance off the longer irons (5 iron would be shorter - all irons at 7 iron length for"one length")
     
    But I mean if you weigh your clubs all your irons will be a different weight, but again SWING WEIGHT is the weight of the balance point so your 5 iron feels the same as your 9 when you swing it so you can have a consistent swing with your irons and this is much different than the literal club weight which is going to vary over every club.
  2. Like
    David LD got a reaction from KC Golf in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    Bryson's one length heads do NOT all weigh the same -they are the same length but each head is subsequently heavier and they are significantly heavier than standard iron heads and that's direct from Cobra's tour department - I spoke with them a few years ago when they had first come out because I wanted to try making my set of pro blades one length -they told me I couldn't do it with out heavily modifying them because the heads would be too light so I'd lose a lot of distance off the longer irons (5 iron would be shorter - all irons at 7 iron length for"one length")
     
    But I mean if you weigh your clubs all your irons will be a different weight, but again SWING WEIGHT is the weight of the balance point so your 5 iron feels the same as your 9 when you swing it so you can have a consistent swing with your irons and this is much different than the literal club weight which is going to vary over every club.
  3. Like
    David LD got a reaction from William P in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    I don't have a build sheet - I can get you certain specs of you want.
     
    I borrowed a swing weight scale when I built my drivers, I have different ones a different weights for different setups - I'd argue that it's quite difficult to keep the ball under the wind with a really light head. Most of my heads are closer to 200grams and I have a few which are around 230...mostly playing 75 gram shafts with a 62 gram grip
    I'm also playing a lot heavier and stiffer shaft that most guys - I've seen 45 gram driver shaft setups for ppl chasing speed, but to me I feel like I'm going to split the shaft in half. I'm already swinging over 150mph club speed and I added weight for stability and control.
    Now for my irons idk my current swing weight because the last 3 sets I had I bent the shafts in 30 swings or so and I had to get a custom set of the true temper x7s they made for Jason day who was also bending his shafts -they are about double the thickness of the x100 and reinforced at the tip.
    Since I didn't know if they would bend on me or not I figured I'd dial them in and then weight them after - granted I'm also playing with the shaft lengths - I build all my own clubs, but it's not like I can go get fit somewhere  because not only is there no demo equipment, but I can't really even compare to a stock shaft, plus I might bend or break the stock demo stuff.
    For your R7, I'd bet the head on it is at least flattened - my father had one which he played from 2006 to maybe 2015ish and the head died, if I remember correctly it actually cracked on him - and he's not a long driver, he can hit the ball,but has major back issues - it was a great driver head though.
    I mean if you really want to play that head or just play around, over the past 4 years or so the biggest golf improvements have been with the shafts.
    If you're looking for any specific specs or build suggestions I can give my opinion or try to point you in the right direction.
    As for driver swing weight - I do just build to feel, but I'm also going off always using a 75 gram shaft 60-63 gram grip - so the only factor is head weight and then matching that to shaft cpms (stiffness) but if you hand me say a d10 and then a lighter or heavier club I could tell you this one is the d8...I was also hitting close to 40k balls at the range and breaking at least 12 drivers a vear (the heads all crack or warp only the guys using the super light shafts break shafts, I haven't broken a shaft in 8 years)
    Like I was saying in my original response - the swing weight matters the most across your irons.
  4. Like
    David LD got a reaction from William P in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    I was asking your swing speed because if it's on the higher end there are a couple brands which have very weak tips that bend and warp easily - especially - on the lighter shafts.
     
    In general there's been a trend to go to much lighter shafts for irons - I think this is a very large mistake - there's a fine point where the weight of the club stabilizes your swing - if you want to share your swing speed and the shaft I can possibly help you troubleshoot what might be going on or hopefully at least tell you where to look -if you got fit recently and are unhappy I would go back to the place and complain they might be able to at least get you a discount on shafts...
    If you built them yourself, it could be an issue with craftsmanship (no offense ) it's just virtually every tutorial I've seen on YouTube is making some kind if mistake -mostly with shafting beads or the epoxy blend or curing.
  5. Like
    David LD got a reaction from William P in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    Bryson's one length heads do NOT all weigh the same -they are the same length but each head is subsequently heavier and they are significantly heavier than standard iron heads and that's direct from Cobra's tour department - I spoke with them a few years ago when they had first come out because I wanted to try making my set of pro blades one length -they told me I couldn't do it with out heavily modifying them because the heads would be too light so I'd lose a lot of distance off the longer irons (5 iron would be shorter - all irons at 7 iron length for"one length")
     
    But I mean if you weigh your clubs all your irons will be a different weight, but again SWING WEIGHT is the weight of the balance point so your 5 iron feels the same as your 9 when you swing it so you can have a consistent swing with your irons and this is much different than the literal club weight which is going to vary over every club.
  6. Like
    David LD got a reaction from William P in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    Did you get fit for shafts? What's your club speed and what's the flex of the shaft?
     
    They could be too light, it could be your swing, they could be too flexy or too stiff - possibly too stiff if your consistently hitting them 40 yards left. There are a lot of factors you really need to get for for shafts by someone who knows what they are doing *** or do it yourself by looking at your launch monitor numbers, spin, etc
  7. Like
    David LD got a reaction from William P in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    It seems a lot of ppl are confusing consistent swing weight across their irons for the individual club weight - I agree you should find what feels best, but then you make all your clubs the same swing weight for consistency - all your clubs are literally going to be a different weight though - swing weight is the measure of "feel" of balance across your clubs -you want your irons to all "feel" the same so you can make a repeatable swing
  8. Like
    David LD got a reaction from William P in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    @BigBoiGolf
    With all due respect, is there any chance for one that your scale is broken?
    Every scale I've ever used has been very sensitive with in about 1/4 of 1 gram.
    There is a very specific way the club has to be put into the swing weight scale as well as weight "on" the fulcrum point should actually yeild a "zero" change if it's literally over the fulcrum point because physics... Fulcrum point = a seesaw... Any one who's ever gotten on one as a child knows if you have 2 ppl about the same weight or balances out - as well as you could have a 3rd person just stand in the center but it doesn't impact either side of the seesaw unless the shift their weight from the center...
    With that part cleared up let's also be really clear that the setting weight scale is a measurement of balance between how heavy the head is vs how heavy the club is at the grip - so in essence the balance and feel of the club.
    It's also extremely important to note the most important aspect of swing weight is that you have an even saying weight across all your clubs or at least all of your irons weigh say D2 for example. This is very important if you're playing at a high level so you can make a consistent swing between clubs.
    It matters for some players a great deal more than others as well as when it comes to building a consistent set.
    So with swing weight we are looking to make a set of clubs all feel the same despite being different weights and sizes for example your 4 iron would feel the same as your 9 iron despite the 9 iron being shorter -this is partly why the club head weighs on your lower irons are heavier in general.
    Now there is no reason you couldn't play with clubs that have swing weights all over the place, but there's no reason you should want to do this because it can cause you to hit errant shots if the swing weights are too far apart from each other.
     
    Now for myself I've played around with building a hybrid one length set as well as while tweaking my clubs playing with them all over the place or even trying  different swing weights. More specifically when I was playing my wedges with a fatter grip (lowering the swing weight) reducing the "feel" of the head being heavier - i consistently bladed my wedge shots.
    I would say in general the heavier the club is the LESS the swing weight matters for consistency across your irons and the lighter the weight the more you will notice a difference.
    As well as the faster your swing speed the more important and more noticeable it is - I would also say the better player you are the more noticeable and the more important it is.
    I don't think it matters too much if your irons vary a little to your woods to your driver - I think you can have more variance because you already have a large lenghth variance, as well as your woods and driver are going to be the lightest clubs in your bag.
     
    Now if you're talking club weight for the driver or adjusting swing weight over a club length increase or decrease it matters a tremendous amount and the total club weight, as well as the head weight will literally impact the flex of the shaft.
    As a more direct example if you take a look at professional long drive you see many players have shifted to seinor flex or even childrens flex shafts (yes really) - part of the reason for this is for long drive heads there's been a crazy reduction in driver head weight - for example from the epic flash to the paradygm head the driver head weight went from 220 grams all the way down to 179 grams - a 40 gram reduction in head weight - it made it so if you were playing an x flex shaft - it now plays like a 3x or 4x and dropping down to seinor flex is really playing closer to an X stiff flex shaft at that very light head weight.
    So yes having consistent swing weight across your irons is still relaxant and matters more the better player you are - and the actual club weight matters even more.
    This isn't even getting into how swing weight for fitting is important for different shafts - it can greatly impact ball flight and launch angle, it depends on your individual swing, height, flexibility, etc...
    For example I play an F12 on my driver, but most ppl would hate something that heavy in the head, quite literally they would have a hard time just getting the club head to the ball
     
     
  9. Like
    David LD got a reaction from cksurfdude in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    Bryson's one length heads do NOT all weigh the same -they are the same length but each head is subsequently heavier and they are significantly heavier than standard iron heads and that's direct from Cobra's tour department - I spoke with them a few years ago when they had first come out because I wanted to try making my set of pro blades one length -they told me I couldn't do it with out heavily modifying them because the heads would be too light so I'd lose a lot of distance off the longer irons (5 iron would be shorter - all irons at 7 iron length for"one length")
     
    But I mean if you weigh your clubs all your irons will be a different weight, but again SWING WEIGHT is the weight of the balance point so your 5 iron feels the same as your 9 when you swing it so you can have a consistent swing with your irons and this is much different than the literal club weight which is going to vary over every club.
  10. Like
    David LD got a reaction from cksurfdude in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    I was asking your swing speed because if it's on the higher end there are a couple brands which have very weak tips that bend and warp easily - especially - on the lighter shafts.
     
    In general there's been a trend to go to much lighter shafts for irons - I think this is a very large mistake - there's a fine point where the weight of the club stabilizes your swing - if you want to share your swing speed and the shaft I can possibly help you troubleshoot what might be going on or hopefully at least tell you where to look -if you got fit recently and are unhappy I would go back to the place and complain they might be able to at least get you a discount on shafts...
    If you built them yourself, it could be an issue with craftsmanship (no offense ) it's just virtually every tutorial I've seen on YouTube is making some kind if mistake -mostly with shafting beads or the epoxy blend or curing.
  11. Like
    David LD got a reaction from cksurfdude in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    Did you get fit for shafts? What's your club speed and what's the flex of the shaft?
     
    They could be too light, it could be your swing, they could be too flexy or too stiff - possibly too stiff if your consistently hitting them 40 yards left. There are a lot of factors you really need to get for for shafts by someone who knows what they are doing *** or do it yourself by looking at your launch monitor numbers, spin, etc
  12. Like
    David LD got a reaction from cksurfdude in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    It seems a lot of ppl are confusing consistent swing weight across their irons for the individual club weight - I agree you should find what feels best, but then you make all your clubs the same swing weight for consistency - all your clubs are literally going to be a different weight though - swing weight is the measure of "feel" of balance across your clubs -you want your irons to all "feel" the same so you can make a repeatable swing
  13. Fire
    David LD got a reaction from cksurfdude in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    @BigBoiGolf
    With all due respect, is there any chance for one that your scale is broken?
    Every scale I've ever used has been very sensitive with in about 1/4 of 1 gram.
    There is a very specific way the club has to be put into the swing weight scale as well as weight "on" the fulcrum point should actually yeild a "zero" change if it's literally over the fulcrum point because physics... Fulcrum point = a seesaw... Any one who's ever gotten on one as a child knows if you have 2 ppl about the same weight or balances out - as well as you could have a 3rd person just stand in the center but it doesn't impact either side of the seesaw unless the shift their weight from the center...
    With that part cleared up let's also be really clear that the setting weight scale is a measurement of balance between how heavy the head is vs how heavy the club is at the grip - so in essence the balance and feel of the club.
    It's also extremely important to note the most important aspect of swing weight is that you have an even saying weight across all your clubs or at least all of your irons weigh say D2 for example. This is very important if you're playing at a high level so you can make a consistent swing between clubs.
    It matters for some players a great deal more than others as well as when it comes to building a consistent set.
    So with swing weight we are looking to make a set of clubs all feel the same despite being different weights and sizes for example your 4 iron would feel the same as your 9 iron despite the 9 iron being shorter -this is partly why the club head weighs on your lower irons are heavier in general.
    Now there is no reason you couldn't play with clubs that have swing weights all over the place, but there's no reason you should want to do this because it can cause you to hit errant shots if the swing weights are too far apart from each other.
     
    Now for myself I've played around with building a hybrid one length set as well as while tweaking my clubs playing with them all over the place or even trying  different swing weights. More specifically when I was playing my wedges with a fatter grip (lowering the swing weight) reducing the "feel" of the head being heavier - i consistently bladed my wedge shots.
    I would say in general the heavier the club is the LESS the swing weight matters for consistency across your irons and the lighter the weight the more you will notice a difference.
    As well as the faster your swing speed the more important and more noticeable it is - I would also say the better player you are the more noticeable and the more important it is.
    I don't think it matters too much if your irons vary a little to your woods to your driver - I think you can have more variance because you already have a large lenghth variance, as well as your woods and driver are going to be the lightest clubs in your bag.
     
    Now if you're talking club weight for the driver or adjusting swing weight over a club length increase or decrease it matters a tremendous amount and the total club weight, as well as the head weight will literally impact the flex of the shaft.
    As a more direct example if you take a look at professional long drive you see many players have shifted to seinor flex or even childrens flex shafts (yes really) - part of the reason for this is for long drive heads there's been a crazy reduction in driver head weight - for example from the epic flash to the paradygm head the driver head weight went from 220 grams all the way down to 179 grams - a 40 gram reduction in head weight - it made it so if you were playing an x flex shaft - it now plays like a 3x or 4x and dropping down to seinor flex is really playing closer to an X stiff flex shaft at that very light head weight.
    So yes having consistent swing weight across your irons is still relaxant and matters more the better player you are - and the actual club weight matters even more.
    This isn't even getting into how swing weight for fitting is important for different shafts - it can greatly impact ball flight and launch angle, it depends on your individual swing, height, flexibility, etc...
    For example I play an F12 on my driver, but most ppl would hate something that heavy in the head, quite literally they would have a hard time just getting the club head to the ball
     
     
  14. Like
    David LD got a reaction from THE GOLF GUY in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    I don't have a build sheet - I can get you certain specs of you want.
     
    I borrowed a swing weight scale when I built my drivers, I have different ones a different weights for different setups - I'd argue that it's quite difficult to keep the ball under the wind with a really light head. Most of my heads are closer to 200grams and I have a few which are around 230...mostly playing 75 gram shafts with a 62 gram grip
    I'm also playing a lot heavier and stiffer shaft that most guys - I've seen 45 gram driver shaft setups for ppl chasing speed, but to me I feel like I'm going to split the shaft in half. I'm already swinging over 150mph club speed and I added weight for stability and control.
    Now for my irons idk my current swing weight because the last 3 sets I had I bent the shafts in 30 swings or so and I had to get a custom set of the true temper x7s they made for Jason day who was also bending his shafts -they are about double the thickness of the x100 and reinforced at the tip.
    Since I didn't know if they would bend on me or not I figured I'd dial them in and then weight them after - granted I'm also playing with the shaft lengths - I build all my own clubs, but it's not like I can go get fit somewhere  because not only is there no demo equipment, but I can't really even compare to a stock shaft, plus I might bend or break the stock demo stuff.
    For your R7, I'd bet the head on it is at least flattened - my father had one which he played from 2006 to maybe 2015ish and the head died, if I remember correctly it actually cracked on him - and he's not a long driver, he can hit the ball,but has major back issues - it was a great driver head though.
    I mean if you really want to play that head or just play around, over the past 4 years or so the biggest golf improvements have been with the shafts.
    If you're looking for any specific specs or build suggestions I can give my opinion or try to point you in the right direction.
    As for driver swing weight - I do just build to feel, but I'm also going off always using a 75 gram shaft 60-63 gram grip - so the only factor is head weight and then matching that to shaft cpms (stiffness) but if you hand me say a d10 and then a lighter or heavier club I could tell you this one is the d8...I was also hitting close to 40k balls at the range and breaking at least 12 drivers a vear (the heads all crack or warp only the guys using the super light shafts break shafts, I haven't broken a shaft in 8 years)
    Like I was saying in my original response - the swing weight matters the most across your irons.
  15. Hmmm
    David LD got a reaction from EnderinAZ in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    @BigBoiGolf
    With all due respect, is there any chance for one that your scale is broken?
    Every scale I've ever used has been very sensitive with in about 1/4 of 1 gram.
    There is a very specific way the club has to be put into the swing weight scale as well as weight "on" the fulcrum point should actually yeild a "zero" change if it's literally over the fulcrum point because physics... Fulcrum point = a seesaw... Any one who's ever gotten on one as a child knows if you have 2 ppl about the same weight or balances out - as well as you could have a 3rd person just stand in the center but it doesn't impact either side of the seesaw unless the shift their weight from the center...
    With that part cleared up let's also be really clear that the setting weight scale is a measurement of balance between how heavy the head is vs how heavy the club is at the grip - so in essence the balance and feel of the club.
    It's also extremely important to note the most important aspect of swing weight is that you have an even saying weight across all your clubs or at least all of your irons weigh say D2 for example. This is very important if you're playing at a high level so you can make a consistent swing between clubs.
    It matters for some players a great deal more than others as well as when it comes to building a consistent set.
    So with swing weight we are looking to make a set of clubs all feel the same despite being different weights and sizes for example your 4 iron would feel the same as your 9 iron despite the 9 iron being shorter -this is partly why the club head weighs on your lower irons are heavier in general.
    Now there is no reason you couldn't play with clubs that have swing weights all over the place, but there's no reason you should want to do this because it can cause you to hit errant shots if the swing weights are too far apart from each other.
     
    Now for myself I've played around with building a hybrid one length set as well as while tweaking my clubs playing with them all over the place or even trying  different swing weights. More specifically when I was playing my wedges with a fatter grip (lowering the swing weight) reducing the "feel" of the head being heavier - i consistently bladed my wedge shots.
    I would say in general the heavier the club is the LESS the swing weight matters for consistency across your irons and the lighter the weight the more you will notice a difference.
    As well as the faster your swing speed the more important and more noticeable it is - I would also say the better player you are the more noticeable and the more important it is.
    I don't think it matters too much if your irons vary a little to your woods to your driver - I think you can have more variance because you already have a large lenghth variance, as well as your woods and driver are going to be the lightest clubs in your bag.
     
    Now if you're talking club weight for the driver or adjusting swing weight over a club length increase or decrease it matters a tremendous amount and the total club weight, as well as the head weight will literally impact the flex of the shaft.
    As a more direct example if you take a look at professional long drive you see many players have shifted to seinor flex or even childrens flex shafts (yes really) - part of the reason for this is for long drive heads there's been a crazy reduction in driver head weight - for example from the epic flash to the paradygm head the driver head weight went from 220 grams all the way down to 179 grams - a 40 gram reduction in head weight - it made it so if you were playing an x flex shaft - it now plays like a 3x or 4x and dropping down to seinor flex is really playing closer to an X stiff flex shaft at that very light head weight.
    So yes having consistent swing weight across your irons is still relaxant and matters more the better player you are - and the actual club weight matters even more.
    This isn't even getting into how swing weight for fitting is important for different shafts - it can greatly impact ball flight and launch angle, it depends on your individual swing, height, flexibility, etc...
    For example I play an F12 on my driver, but most ppl would hate something that heavy in the head, quite literally they would have a hard time just getting the club head to the ball
     
     
  16. Like
    David LD got a reaction from Clubs by Buzz in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    @BigBoiGolf
    With all due respect, is there any chance for one that your scale is broken?
    Every scale I've ever used has been very sensitive with in about 1/4 of 1 gram.
    There is a very specific way the club has to be put into the swing weight scale as well as weight "on" the fulcrum point should actually yeild a "zero" change if it's literally over the fulcrum point because physics... Fulcrum point = a seesaw... Any one who's ever gotten on one as a child knows if you have 2 ppl about the same weight or balances out - as well as you could have a 3rd person just stand in the center but it doesn't impact either side of the seesaw unless the shift their weight from the center...
    With that part cleared up let's also be really clear that the setting weight scale is a measurement of balance between how heavy the head is vs how heavy the club is at the grip - so in essence the balance and feel of the club.
    It's also extremely important to note the most important aspect of swing weight is that you have an even saying weight across all your clubs or at least all of your irons weigh say D2 for example. This is very important if you're playing at a high level so you can make a consistent swing between clubs.
    It matters for some players a great deal more than others as well as when it comes to building a consistent set.
    So with swing weight we are looking to make a set of clubs all feel the same despite being different weights and sizes for example your 4 iron would feel the same as your 9 iron despite the 9 iron being shorter -this is partly why the club head weighs on your lower irons are heavier in general.
    Now there is no reason you couldn't play with clubs that have swing weights all over the place, but there's no reason you should want to do this because it can cause you to hit errant shots if the swing weights are too far apart from each other.
     
    Now for myself I've played around with building a hybrid one length set as well as while tweaking my clubs playing with them all over the place or even trying  different swing weights. More specifically when I was playing my wedges with a fatter grip (lowering the swing weight) reducing the "feel" of the head being heavier - i consistently bladed my wedge shots.
    I would say in general the heavier the club is the LESS the swing weight matters for consistency across your irons and the lighter the weight the more you will notice a difference.
    As well as the faster your swing speed the more important and more noticeable it is - I would also say the better player you are the more noticeable and the more important it is.
    I don't think it matters too much if your irons vary a little to your woods to your driver - I think you can have more variance because you already have a large lenghth variance, as well as your woods and driver are going to be the lightest clubs in your bag.
     
    Now if you're talking club weight for the driver or adjusting swing weight over a club length increase or decrease it matters a tremendous amount and the total club weight, as well as the head weight will literally impact the flex of the shaft.
    As a more direct example if you take a look at professional long drive you see many players have shifted to seinor flex or even childrens flex shafts (yes really) - part of the reason for this is for long drive heads there's been a crazy reduction in driver head weight - for example from the epic flash to the paradygm head the driver head weight went from 220 grams all the way down to 179 grams - a 40 gram reduction in head weight - it made it so if you were playing an x flex shaft - it now plays like a 3x or 4x and dropping down to seinor flex is really playing closer to an X stiff flex shaft at that very light head weight.
    So yes having consistent swing weight across your irons is still relaxant and matters more the better player you are - and the actual club weight matters even more.
    This isn't even getting into how swing weight for fitting is important for different shafts - it can greatly impact ball flight and launch angle, it depends on your individual swing, height, flexibility, etc...
    For example I play an F12 on my driver, but most ppl would hate something that heavy in the head, quite literally they would have a hard time just getting the club head to the ball
     
     
  17. Like
    David LD got a reaction from B_R_A_D_Y in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    It seems a lot of ppl are confusing consistent swing weight across their irons for the individual club weight - I agree you should find what feels best, but then you make all your clubs the same swing weight for consistency - all your clubs are literally going to be a different weight though - swing weight is the measure of "feel" of balance across your clubs -you want your irons to all "feel" the same so you can make a repeatable swing
  18. Like
    David LD got a reaction from B_R_A_D_Y in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    @BigBoiGolf
    With all due respect, is there any chance for one that your scale is broken?
    Every scale I've ever used has been very sensitive with in about 1/4 of 1 gram.
    There is a very specific way the club has to be put into the swing weight scale as well as weight "on" the fulcrum point should actually yeild a "zero" change if it's literally over the fulcrum point because physics... Fulcrum point = a seesaw... Any one who's ever gotten on one as a child knows if you have 2 ppl about the same weight or balances out - as well as you could have a 3rd person just stand in the center but it doesn't impact either side of the seesaw unless the shift their weight from the center...
    With that part cleared up let's also be really clear that the setting weight scale is a measurement of balance between how heavy the head is vs how heavy the club is at the grip - so in essence the balance and feel of the club.
    It's also extremely important to note the most important aspect of swing weight is that you have an even saying weight across all your clubs or at least all of your irons weigh say D2 for example. This is very important if you're playing at a high level so you can make a consistent swing between clubs.
    It matters for some players a great deal more than others as well as when it comes to building a consistent set.
    So with swing weight we are looking to make a set of clubs all feel the same despite being different weights and sizes for example your 4 iron would feel the same as your 9 iron despite the 9 iron being shorter -this is partly why the club head weighs on your lower irons are heavier in general.
    Now there is no reason you couldn't play with clubs that have swing weights all over the place, but there's no reason you should want to do this because it can cause you to hit errant shots if the swing weights are too far apart from each other.
     
    Now for myself I've played around with building a hybrid one length set as well as while tweaking my clubs playing with them all over the place or even trying  different swing weights. More specifically when I was playing my wedges with a fatter grip (lowering the swing weight) reducing the "feel" of the head being heavier - i consistently bladed my wedge shots.
    I would say in general the heavier the club is the LESS the swing weight matters for consistency across your irons and the lighter the weight the more you will notice a difference.
    As well as the faster your swing speed the more important and more noticeable it is - I would also say the better player you are the more noticeable and the more important it is.
    I don't think it matters too much if your irons vary a little to your woods to your driver - I think you can have more variance because you already have a large lenghth variance, as well as your woods and driver are going to be the lightest clubs in your bag.
     
    Now if you're talking club weight for the driver or adjusting swing weight over a club length increase or decrease it matters a tremendous amount and the total club weight, as well as the head weight will literally impact the flex of the shaft.
    As a more direct example if you take a look at professional long drive you see many players have shifted to seinor flex or even childrens flex shafts (yes really) - part of the reason for this is for long drive heads there's been a crazy reduction in driver head weight - for example from the epic flash to the paradygm head the driver head weight went from 220 grams all the way down to 179 grams - a 40 gram reduction in head weight - it made it so if you were playing an x flex shaft - it now plays like a 3x or 4x and dropping down to seinor flex is really playing closer to an X stiff flex shaft at that very light head weight.
    So yes having consistent swing weight across your irons is still relaxant and matters more the better player you are - and the actual club weight matters even more.
    This isn't even getting into how swing weight for fitting is important for different shafts - it can greatly impact ball flight and launch angle, it depends on your individual swing, height, flexibility, etc...
    For example I play an F12 on my driver, but most ppl would hate something that heavy in the head, quite literally they would have a hard time just getting the club head to the ball
     
     
  19. Like
    David LD got a reaction from Shapotomous in Why are we still using Swingweight?   
    It seems a lot of ppl are confusing consistent swing weight across their irons for the individual club weight - I agree you should find what feels best, but then you make all your clubs the same swing weight for consistency - all your clubs are literally going to be a different weight though - swing weight is the measure of "feel" of balance across your clubs -you want your irons to all "feel" the same so you can make a repeatable swing
  20. Like
    David LD got a reaction from GaryF in Forged vs. Cast   
    The current generation of them are all forged... but the feel has more to do with the metal blend, the shaft, and the grip vs being forged or cast - I played a set of cobra MB's the past 10 years I can feel the exact spot the ball hits on every shot. In general the more thin the face is the more you are going to feel it - the thicker cavity back irons have a lot less feel by design.

    Personally I think Muzino makes a far superior product to Callaway - the tend to be a bit more bespoke - though the wear could really just be the tungsten metal vs nickle chrome - though if your buddy has a much faster swing speed or plays a lot more that could also by why. If I'm not mistaken tungsten is a bit more brittle and corrodes faster than chrome, which is a bit softer - so you get a lot more feel from the softer metal. 

    The problem is there is a lot more marketing BS than physics facts when it comes to these, but you've gotta play with what feels best to you and will help you score better. There are tons of options - a lot of them a great options, but you'll play best with the one that's fit specifically to you.
  21. Like
    David LD got a reaction from GaryF in Forged vs. Cast   
    It boils down to the laws of physics and feel...

    I can tell you without question none of the pros are playing with the off the shelf stuff you can buy at the store
    There is a huge difference in the new metal mold injection "cast" heads which are technically "cast" but are really molded.

    Grooves wear out faster on softer metal - so it depends on which metal blends they use for the head - typically forged are significantly more durable.

    I mean think of it this way - you wouldn't want a cast samurai sword because it would break hitting against a forged one - the forged one might bend
    but you can always resharpen it.

    If someone is playing cast iron heads for years without any wear, they must have a very slow swing speed - all irons will wear after 20+ years of play if they are hit fast enough.
     
    As for some tour pro's playing cast irons - can you name a few - that you really know exactly what is in there bag? A lot of them play fully custom stuff that you
    can't buy or get anywhere and it's a secret as well - but they might be stamped or look a lot like their cast counterpart.

    I can say I've cracked several cast iron heads, granted there are very few people swinging as fast as me.

    I can say with 100% certainty it's that way with shafts as well - for example one of my best shafts I have - only 15 total were made I was one of 6 guys to get one.

    No one really knows what is in the pro's bag except for themself, their sponsor, caddy or their tour cart manager - companies don't pay them thousands or millions of
    dollars to promote their custom bag...

    The bottom line is - if you get fit, by someone who knows what they are doing, you will find what works best for you - aside from that it's really personal opinion.

    Generally speaking - cast irons have a weaker bond and less feel than forged irons and the metal mold injection casting is the strongest, but also uses the softest metal. You've gotta have a strong understand of metallurgy and physics to really understand the difference between the different grades of metal and process of how they are made. It's something which can be learned in a few minutes.

    Since you mentioned Ping - I mean just read their own marketing for their new i525 irons - they are literally directly saying the forged irons are better and allow for more forgivness and a hotter face.

    https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/irons/i525

    "A powerful new design engineered with a forged, maraging-steel face significantly increases speed and distance while providing a pleasing feel and sound. All packaged in a compact, players-style model perimeter weighted to elevate forgiveness and deliver long, towering shots that hit and hold the green."

    ^^ these are an example of "Metal Mold Injection" heads - the back is molded or "cast" but the face is forged and the clubs are listed as "forged" clubs.
  22. Haha
    David LD got a reaction from pingman79 in Forged vs. Cast   
    If they aren't playing custom clubs then I wouldn't consider them "pros" once you get to a certain level of playing it's mandatory - I can tell you this - to a very large extent non forged or metal injection heads - as in cast heads - are typically too weak too hold up to a loft lie adjustment when put into a loft lie machine, the cast heads crack very easily and no one worth their salt playing is going to leave that up to chance when then need to hit a shot which really counts.

    If you have a fast enough swing speed - anything over about 100mph on a driver - you are going to be constantly warping your clubs - at a least little by little - every swing you take.

    So cast heads without question do not hold up to multiple loft lie adjustments - which could need to be made weekly or even daily for some tour players - granted I suppose it's possible for a few of the top guys to have say 50 or more 7 iorn heads on their tour cart and swap them out for new clubs every week so in the case if there is no expense spared it could be possible, but probably unlikely.

    I say unlikely because even if they are all different - for my self, I wouldn't want to switch my clubs every week or every other week, I want to play the same head - each individual one has a unique feel - they are never all identical.

    I'm a professional long driver - there's all kinds of stuff available to me which is not available to the general public - a lot of it is purposely kept a "secret" to a large extent it wouldn't help or improve play for the average golfer.  I mean any decent club builder could tell you this...

    Not only that but it changes from year to year - to not specifically speak badly about any brands there was one driver head this year which the consumer model didn't turn out correctly, but the low run long drive heads did - consumers couldn't buy them - they were tour issue only heads, but the consumer models were all defective.

    This kind of stuff happens all of the time with irons as well - it's going to happen more since the global supply chain was completely blown up the past two years.

     
  23. Sad
    David LD got a reaction from pingman79 in Forged vs. Cast   
    It boils down to the laws of physics and feel...

    I can tell you without question none of the pros are playing with the off the shelf stuff you can buy at the store
    There is a huge difference in the new metal mold injection "cast" heads which are technically "cast" but are really molded.

    Grooves wear out faster on softer metal - so it depends on which metal blends they use for the head - typically forged are significantly more durable.

    I mean think of it this way - you wouldn't want a cast samurai sword because it would break hitting against a forged one - the forged one might bend
    but you can always resharpen it.

    If someone is playing cast iron heads for years without any wear, they must have a very slow swing speed - all irons will wear after 20+ years of play if they are hit fast enough.
     
    As for some tour pro's playing cast irons - can you name a few - that you really know exactly what is in there bag? A lot of them play fully custom stuff that you
    can't buy or get anywhere and it's a secret as well - but they might be stamped or look a lot like their cast counterpart.

    I can say I've cracked several cast iron heads, granted there are very few people swinging as fast as me.

    I can say with 100% certainty it's that way with shafts as well - for example one of my best shafts I have - only 15 total were made I was one of 6 guys to get one.

    No one really knows what is in the pro's bag except for themself, their sponsor, caddy or their tour cart manager - companies don't pay them thousands or millions of
    dollars to promote their custom bag...

    The bottom line is - if you get fit, by someone who knows what they are doing, you will find what works best for you - aside from that it's really personal opinion.

    Generally speaking - cast irons have a weaker bond and less feel than forged irons and the metal mold injection casting is the strongest, but also uses the softest metal. You've gotta have a strong understand of metallurgy and physics to really understand the difference between the different grades of metal and process of how they are made. It's something which can be learned in a few minutes.

    Since you mentioned Ping - I mean just read their own marketing for their new i525 irons - they are literally directly saying the forged irons are better and allow for more forgivness and a hotter face.

    https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/irons/i525

    "A powerful new design engineered with a forged, maraging-steel face significantly increases speed and distance while providing a pleasing feel and sound. All packaged in a compact, players-style model perimeter weighted to elevate forgiveness and deliver long, towering shots that hit and hold the green."

    ^^ these are an example of "Metal Mold Injection" heads - the back is molded or "cast" but the face is forged and the clubs are listed as "forged" clubs.
  24. Haha
    David LD got a reaction from pingman79 in Forged vs. Cast   
    The better the player you are - but also the faster club head speed you have - forged heads are FAR superior to cast heads - the metal blending they are able to do makes a substantial difference. There's also a longevity factor - if you want to change you clubs every year you might want to play cast. You can play a set of forged heads for several years before they warp or wear out. Cast heads wear out significantly faster.

    High quality forged heads are always going to reverate more and you will feel them more in the shaft on miss hits, cast will always have a bit more vibration dampening becuase there is more "space" in the metal vs forged.

    There are also the newest metal mold injection heads which are more superior than forged, but the quesiton is will you feel it or will it make a difference in your game. The better the player and the faster you swing speed - the more the head is going make a difference.
  25. Like
    David LD reacted to cnosil in Forged vs. Cast   
    Players customize or get their clubs customized to meet their needs.  This could involve length, loft, lie, grind, drilling, custom weights, lead tap, or multiple other things.  If Arnold Palmer wasn’t in that photo we could have thought it was @BIG STUgarage as he grinds and tweaks his clubs to meet his specific needs. This is an old school golfers approach to getting clubs to work for them since manufacturers couldn’t cast or forge one offs for the players.   Players of Palmers era including amateurs did this all the time.  
    Today players like Tiger, Rory, Rose, Bubba, Phil, Rickie and other top tier players get one off forgings of irons that are labeled prototypes or one off shafts with specific bend profiles.  Let’s call these players potential needle movers for a brand 
     
    can you clarify your definition of “custom”?  Are you saying all players have manufacturers create special one forgiving  jigs or molds to cast one off irons specifically for them? Or that they have shafts specifically made just for them based on a call to the manufacturer.   That would be custom.  IMO, This is available only to needle movers. 
     
    Or are you saying that all pros have access to people and equipment that take an OTR club and fine tune it to their game by grinding off some of the toe or heel, or drilling out holes to add or remove weight, adjusting low and lie to fix direction, launch angles, and gapping, adding lead tape, or using a shaft that may not be publicly released but was made in limited quantities? That would be customized.  IMO, this is available to all pros, high level amateurs, and amateurs with the money to pay for it.   
     
    I am trying  to understand what you are saying and it seems like you are using words that potentially mean different things.  
     
    If we look at cast versus forged, pros play all kinds of OTR clubs, some are forged, some are multi construction with cast and forged parts, and some are cast.  I210s are a popular iron at the pro level and they are cast. Vokey wedges are popular at the pro level and they are cast.  As an amateur, I personally can’t tell the difference.  Maybe I am wearing one out faster than another,  but having tested lots of clubs, I can get just as good of a performance out of a cast head as I can out if a forged head.  
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