RoverRick

My opinion is that 3-putts are caused by leaving the first putt 5-6 feet from the hole. I rarely miss the read by 5-6’, but can easily go 5-6’ short or long. Short is worse because at least long means you got to see it go past the hole. You can even align the ball perfectly and hit it exactly on line and leave it 5’ short or even bounce it off the back of the hole. Conversely, a perfectly paced ball slightly off target will still leave you a tap-in. Or at least a very makable putt. I turned all my striped balls with the stripe sideways so as not to focus on it.

A year ago or so, I got a Triple Track putter, ball, and ball marker. I felt I was spending hours (actually just a few seconds) lining up all the lines. I don’t think it helped me make a single putt. I bought a sleeve of these Tour Response Stripe balls a couple of weeks ago. Same story. I line it up from behind the ball, but when I get over the putt it looks aimed somewhere else. In the end it simply changes my focus from the hole to the ball. I look at the hole and focus on it and the distance. I’ve found I putt best when I don’t worry about anything but centering the putter behind the ball and aiming the face at the spot I picked as my target and then focus only on distance. I also allow my subconscious to aim the ball. Almost the 3 bears method. “That feels too much, that feels too little, that feels just right”. The same for speed or even how hard to hit pitches and chips. Intentionally hard, soft, and then what feels right. But the ball itself performed as good as a ProV1, considering it’s been wet, muddy, cold and windy. I do like some of the colors.

I love the concept of the stripe. I tried it and the Callaway Triple Trac, but it just doesn’t work for me. The ball itself is good. Also, for some reason I can find a plain white ball better.

I should have also pointed out that there are a 8 of members, perhaps former members since it has gone outside the forum that I have been in a daily chat group for the past 10 years. Two of whom I’ve never actually met, but still consider them close friends. The others I have met with to play golf on numerous occasions in Vancouver, Tennessee, and a few times in Texas. They have met other places that I have missed. We shared houses and played golf and even gone to weddings. All because of MGS.

Wow. I have been on this forum for 13 years and 6500+ posts and probably only respond to 1 out of 10 threads I have read. So this one is tough to respond to without writing some epic novel, perhaps entitled Rover’s Odyssey, because it really has been a journey. That journey was from a no handicap 120 shooter to a 0.2 handicap index back up to a 13 and back to a 6 as of Friday. It has influenced every part of my game. In just the past year, the 2 threads that have influenced me the most are the LAB Golf putter thread and the Weekly Virtual Tour thread. I was fortunate enough to be selected as a tester for the LAB putter. I selected the DF2.1 because, as an engineer, the design looked like it was the absolute best design made for getting the ball in the hole. It gave no thought to aesthetics and only function. I took it a step further and went with a bright red head and white shaft simply because I wanted to start conversations. It certainly has and at least 5 people have bought LAB putters based on playing with me and seeing it in action. Although I did 2 putt from 25’ yesterday, and a MEZZ1 purchaser 4 putted from 20’ on the same line. It was not the equipments fault. I’ve been a good putter for a decade, thanks to a thread below. The combination of this method and the consistency of the DF2.1 has meant that since last May, have putted 22-33 times every round. The second thread that I have participated in during the past year is the MGS Virtual Golf Tournaments. This has really made me focus on making pars, especially on stroke holes. Often when I’m playing in the regular money matches and I got off to a slow start, and know after 3-4 I’m not going to win the stroke bet. With my group it is rare that a net over par will be in the money spots. With so many in the bet, it is also rare for someone else to not cover a net birdie. The MGS VGT has made me want to “stay in the fight” and play more conservatively so I can post a good round.

Date 02/16/2024 Course Name Sulphur Springs CC Gross Score 83 Course Handicap 6 Gross Strokes over/under par 11 Net Score to Par 5 Net Score 77 Net Birdies or better 2 Longest Drive 207 SIM Round? The good news is my handicap dropped to a 6, it was 65° sunny but a 17 mpg south wind at tee time. The bad news was that by the 7th hole the wind had increase to 25 mph from the north, the temperature had dropped, and my handicap was still 6. The bogeys on the front were some poor chips, but the bogeys on the back were just bad swings. I think the only good swing was the tee shot on 13.

I am vacillating between a SIM2 Rescue 19.5° and a GAPR Mid 18°. The beauty of this Is they use the same adaptor sleeve, so I can have the other head in the bag and swap on the range. The Rescue is higher and perhaps more forgiving, but the GAPR with the flat face is straighter. I’m finding it is course conditions and swing conditions to be the determining factor.

Thanks. I didn’t make it today. I had a work problem that came up last night at midnight and didn’t get it sorted out until 2pm. I usually do send the driver down the middle but short. It’s usually the second shot that cause me all the problems. Also, the key to putting is pitching and chipping. When your 4th shot is within 4-5’ golf is easy no matter how you get there. However, when you are dropping and hitting your 4th shot it is a different deal.

Low 70’s? I have 3 rounds low 70’s since July in gross score. But I am not consistent at all tee to green. I play 4 times a week and usually have 1 round that’s good that I post here and 3 rounds that are horrible. My course handicap has fluctuated between 5 and 13 in the last 18 months. It depends on how my legs are working. I think it will be a 7 tomorrow, but GHIN hasn’t updated that yet. I started out posting a good and bad but soon realized others didn’t want to hear me complain that I didn’t swing well and made 8 doubles or that my legs hurt. I wrote about it in another thread. Today I kept it in play today. I had no doubles and no penalties. You probably do not play with someone that averages 27.1 putts per round with a low of 22 putts and a high of 32 putts since last July. I went the entire month of September with just one three putt. I really have guys that call me One Putt Rick. Others call my putter “Big Red”. If I can avoid doubles/penalties I will shoot in the high 70’s fairly easily. I expect to chip-in with a 9 iron, to sink every putt, and never expect to 3 putt. Of course this is not the case. The problem is while I posted a -1 net last week and a +4 net the week before, I also had some high 80’s, and 2 rounds I didn’t even finish except to play the par 3’s because I couldn’t walk. I also had a smooth 90 one day with 1 deuce where I won a bunch of money. We have a deuce bet that even if I’m feeling bad I will try my hardest to get on the green because I always have an opportunity to birdie with a GIR. With my old set up if I don’t turn properly, because of knees and ankle I come over the top and pull it 40 yards left. There are a lot of bad things 40 yards left of the green. The new setup I hit only draws, and it’s easier on me physically. I’m planning on playing tomorrow because I felt so good today.

Date 02/14/2024 Course Name Sulphur Springs CC Gross Score 76 Course Handicap 8 Gross Strokes over/under par 4 Net Score to Par -4 Net Score 68 Net Birdies or better 7 Longest Drive 220 SIM Round? The LAB Golf Directed Force DF2.1 was my Valentine today. It was cart path only and a little windy. My ankle was sore so I wanted to limit my walking, so my true goal was to keep it near the cart path. I made some swing changes and set up closed and hit draws all day. My ball striking was really good most of the time with driver and irons, although I limited my power. That was in part intentional and part in wanting to save myself for the walking I feared I would have. It turned out that I only had to walk across 1 fairway. My short game could have been a little bit sharper, but I’m never that sharp on muddy ground. The exception was a chip-in on the third hole for birdie. My putting was great, and I never had a second putt from outside 1 foot. I had a 58’ birdie putt that stopped dead center of the hole 4” short. I wasn’t even mad. My bogeys were tap-ins, and other than an over-draw on 14 that ALMOST went OB, I never got in trouble all day. Overall, it was the best round in a while, maybe all year. Okay, I’m not happy that I missed par putts on both par 5’s on the back from 8 and 10’.

Porzak says to keep the hands low during the first part of the take away like “holding a beach ball under the water”. But like I said it was meant as a thumbnail view.

So Wednesday we had 3 out of town members join our group. We have 4 tee times on Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. We will sometimes even take more. Anyone with a handicap and $20, 10 for low net and 10 for skins, is welcomed to play and an additional $20 goes into the Deuce Pot. I was the organizer that day so I decided to go in the last group with the 3 “strangers”. I had seen them but never spoke to them before. One of them (a 1 handicapper) had a center shafted Bettinardi with a BGT Stability shaft that he putted terribly with and every hole he talked about trading it in on Thursday for different putter. We talked about my DF2.1 all day. On 14 they were talking about how I didn’t miss a putt inside 10’. On 15 he 4 putted for double and I 1 putted for par. I said instead of Club Finders he should go across the street to PGA Superstore or Dallas Golf and get a LAB. “Here, try this one.” He drained a 15’er and “F#(#*# yeah. I’m going to buy a lab putter tomorrow.” I don’t know if he did, but I suspect he will be back with one next time I see him. Truth be told, I didn’t have a great drive and laid up so that I could hit a wedge from a different angle. It’s the number 2 handicapped hole and putting across the green is tough. They all went on the right side of the green while I came in from the left. While I made a great one putt, I would have been trilled with a 2 putt from their angle. Which is why I opted to lay up and trust my wedge game.

It’s not from the swing. It’s the putter. I’m not exactly sure where short game stats start but I’m really good inside 100 yards. And while I feel like I miss too many putts I average 27 putts per round. When I keep the ball in play I’m usually in the hunt. We also have 3 bets. Low Net Score, Skins, and Deuces. Deuces can’t be covered up and can be a big pay day. We have had up to 24 players at $20 each in the Deuce Pot. There can be 0 and we all get our money back. I think 8 was the highest. I won low net on Wednesday, but no skins a we had 1 deuce winner. $300+ for him. I had a deuce Friday with 13 in the pot and a skin and won pretty big considering how poorly I played the middle 10 holes. It’s my 4th 2 of the year. Including a 63’er in January.

I typed the TGMN first and had skipped Porzac then went back, so the hands low take away was what I was thinking, when compared to the TGMN. Also, I was attempting to give a thumbnail of each and highlight some differences off the top of my head. There are a lot of things in common each of the method. One of the main points of all of them is keeping your hands in front of the body.

I missed the spell checker continually changing it. I thought I caught them all. Because I thought I had corrected all of them the joke went right over my head. I did think, “cnosil is a pretty good golfer, why is he depressed?”

They are drastically different swings. Marcus Edblad (MES) is all about the trail side being the dominant side. Release the club early and have the trail hand faster than the lead hand. The swing is a push. Finish high right. More arms less body turn. Jim Venetos (JVS) is the opposite. The swing should be lead side dominant. It is a pull. Set up with the trail foot back and take the right side out of play. The rest doesn’t really matter. More arms less body turn. Porzac Golf (PG) is more wrist set with the club head outside the hands, hands low. And pull with the lead hand to the hip and turn hard. More body less hands. Mike Malaska (MM) is similar to Porzac but I would describe it as more trail side and hands. Equal body and hands. Todd Graves/Moe Norman (TGMN) is higher hands, totally different set up and hit the positions of the swing. Less lower body, more shoulders, late hands. Eureka Golf Swing Steve Johnston (EG) is an open stance, inside take away, in-to-out swing, huge turn through the follow through. I’ve tried them all during the past year. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of them. For me, I am searching for the most consistent and the easiest on my high mileage body. Like I said in the previous post, I just watched JVS last week, in spite of the excellent advice from @NC Golfer last April. The more I get into this, the more I realize why I was so much better in 2016 than since 2018. I was hovering around a 1-2 handicap from 2014-2016. I didn’t play in 2017. I started back in 2018 and began the quest to rebuild my swing. In spite of what I said just hours ago in a previous post, I will be sticking with this hopefully the rest of my life and many years. I will not attempt to marry JVS and TGMN swing thought. Jim has said something that really resonates with me about why you have good drivers of the ball and good putters of the ball but very few that can do both. Full swings are lead side dominant and putting is trail side dominant. I’ll add chipping in to trail side dominant since to me this is just putting with a lofted club. I will report back next week after some practice and some more thought. According to my GolfShot App, with the TGMN I was sometimes 24° out to in and 49° steep. Off the first tee yesterday with the JVS I was 14° in to out and 29° shallow and hit a 220 drive into a 22 mph wind and drew it into the wind with a way less than center face strike. I was so excited about my first real opportunity to hit with that wind yesterday, that I forgot about staying still and rotated too much and re-injured my right quad and ruined the rest of my round. Not all of the holes, because I still managed 3 birdies and won $200 but my overall score was bad.

I believe all hole-in-ones are lucky. I’ve made some perfect shots that have been so close and seen many more. I even had the ball hit the flag and bounce into the hazard. I saw an absolutely terrible shot go in the hole. Well, that’s subjective because obviously he hit it the right direction and close to the right speed. But he skulled it 155 yards into the hole. Here’s a pic of one that landed a few feet passed the hole and spun back rolling just by the hole from 11/26/23. No one could have hit this shot anymore perfectly and it still didn’t go in. You can see the pitch mark and my back was towards the tee box. I had several last year and one this week that rolled passed the hole within inches. My lone ace was on a 145 yard hole into a 25-30 mph wind to an island green with the pin at the back. I pitched a waist high 5 iron and landed on the green to ran it back to the hole. We couldn’t see the bottom of the flag, and I assumed it was close. When I drove around and didn’t see it on the green, I didn’t run and checked the hole. I got another ball and a wedge and looked in the water hazard behind the green. I asked another guy to check the hole as he walked by on his way to the drop zone. No one had hit the green. He looked and said, “Yep It’s in there.” There wasn’t a huge celebration. I was too stunned. Actually, the quote is not quite true. He said something besides “Yep”. Don’t want to get a strike. He said he could see my mark on the ball. Interestingly, that is a pin location in the normal rotation and was there on Wednesday. The wind wasn’t as severe and it wasn’t a 5 iron and instead of landing it on the front and running all the was across the green I hit a really great shot that landed just below the crest of the green and ran over towards the hole. Speed looked great. I thought would be in or near the hole. It was not on the green. I did check the hole first, but sadly I had to retrieve it from the lake before chipping it for a tap in bogey. While I didn’t see the hole-in-one, it probably hit the stick and that’s the only think that stopped it. While the pin location was drastically different, the picture and the ace were the same green. If I had to choose the picture was the “better” shot. Obviously the ace was the luckier shot.

@jbern Thanks for asking. It’s been 10 months since my last update in this thread. Looking back on this now, the thing I got most wrong was when I said I have gotten over my ankle problems. It comes and goes and is affected by weather. I’ve played some great golf and some horrible golf. I have tried 4 other swing methods, Marcus Edblad, Prozac, Mike Malaska, Jim Venetos. All trying to get rid of the same problem. Hooking the irons and pushing the driver. None of those have been as consistent as the Todd Graves/Moe Norman swing. Graves will say Moe Norman 100 times but his teaching is based on Moe’s swing but there are differences. First, Graves training aids, since you brought it up. I bought the training club second hand. I thought it was … meh. The grip was great but the one I have is a 6 iron with a 4 iron length. It is a great concept, a training device that you actually hit balls with, but its usefulness was short lived. Once I got used to the hand position, I rarely used it. The ball position trainer is important because of the consistency in setup it provides. I didn’t buy one but created one with an alignment stick and some electrical tape. The Swing Position Trainer I created by sticking a shaft inside another shaft. Second, the swing itself. For a while I had very consistent ball striking. But I began pulling the irons and pushing the driver. I know now that this stems from hanging back on my right side. The root cause of this is the right ankle, knee, and quad. I was injured again in October and have struggled with quadricep tendinitis since. I have a new brace for that. Thanks to @NC Golfer I recently tried the Jim Venetos swing. I was 100% wrong about that swing. I said I thought it required a shift of the weight that would hurt my back. The Venetos swing is all about Stillness of the lower body. Since my main problem is a weak right leg, I found that shifting back to my left side the problem. Norman had a “quiet” lower body. Venetos has a “still” lower body. Set up left and keep it there. Last weekend was the first time I even looked at the Venetos swing. I gave it a try on Wednesday. While I still made some bad swings, I shot 79 net 71 and won some money. The right foot back, still lower body produced excellent contact with an in-to-out path and a shallowing transition. There is still work to do.

Date 02/07/2024 Course Name Sulphur Springs CC Gross Score 79 Course Handicap 8 Gross Strokes over/under par 7 Net Score to Par -1 Net Score 71 Net Birdies or better 6 Longest Drive 240 SIM Round? Much better. I still made 11 bad swings (perhaps I should say less than good instead of bad), but I made significantly more good swings. I figured out I hanging back on my right side because of my right ankle, so today I dropped my right leg back and “felt” that kept 90% of my weight on my left leg. I say felt because there were a number of times I could I had a really good weight shift. My bad swings were more of a tempo issue than anything else. As the round went on I had fewer mistakes so this was a very exciting day for me.

The average daily wind here is 17.2 mph. I play a lot of 3/4 knockdown shots with 1 more club to a certain yardage. I can’t say that I use a specific formula anymore. I just have in my mind if it’s a 1, 2, or 3 club wind. We have a new driving range/practice facility that has north and south facing range tee boxes (tee lines?) so I can hit from either side if I want to “dial in” how much it affects the ball on that day. But most important is number 9, an island green modeled after 17 at TPC Sawgrass. It is very unforgiving. We have a practice pitching green that I will drop some balls 130 from there into the same direction as Hole 9 and hit a few balls so that I have a pretty good idea what to hit on that hole. Usually I’m not overly concerned about approach shots with the wind other than to see where I want to miss if I get the distance wrong. 9 and 18 are island greens. 6 & 16 have water short and right. Etc. So I want to err on the safe side. There are a number of holes that I will look at the pin location on the tee and see where I want to attempt to hit my drive to give me the best angle. Having said all that, the last couple of rounds the wind has been way below normal, and I’ve played like crap.

Thanks. I could have played today, but I decided to just stay home and didn’t touch a club. This is not normal for me. It was also cart path only today I spent yesterday working on a swing change. More of a setup change than anything.

No real coopetition from me this week on the leaderboard. I strained my leg getting a cart out of the mud Wednesday on the second hole. I went Friday but quit and hung around. Didn’t even go Saturday or Sunday. But looking forward to Wednesday.

Date 01/31/2024 Course Name Sulphur Springs CC Gross Score 84 Course Handicap 8 Gross Strokes over/under par 12 Net Score to Par 4 Net Score 76 Net Birdies or better 4 Longest Drive 237 SIM Round? It was an absolutely beautiful day that I almost ruined with 10 pull-hooks typically followed by a slightly thin chip or pitch. The best part was I spread them out so that I could enjoy screwing up 1 shot on at least every other hole. It was just frustrating to get in position and feel like I made a good swing and watch the ball go 30 yards left and 10 yards long. Then hit the next one 30’ passed the hole. But 75° and sunny with no wind on January 31, it was a beautiful day.

Love em! They reduce bag clatter to some extent, but most importantly, since every club has a home, I can instantly see if I left a club somewhere.

Oops. I thought I had a net birdie on another hole. I see it was magically corrected.