RDel90

Putter is built and shipped. Should be here this weekend! More updates to come.

Don't forget to keep us posted where you go for fitting and the outcome! Also to answer your question CC addresses the fitting price in their website FAQ. Is the fitting fee applied to the cost of the recommended golf clubs? "Simply put, it is not. Our immersive fitting experience is driven by factors like an expansive demo matrix, cutting-edge technology, extensive training for fitter and builders — there is a significant cost in maintaining these assets. We try to explain it like this: If a store is offering a free fitting, they don’t have the technology or variety to offer you the very best in custom fitting. Being the best in the business means we have to charge for our fitting experience."

Maybe it helped they knew my intention was to purchase through them and not just get fit and go elsewhere?

Didn’t really convince them, they just did for me.

Also want to add when fitted irons orginially, and gave CC my price point, my fitter knew she couldn't put me in non-OEM shafts, sho she had me test shafts with profiles that she knew were similar to OEM offerings.

Lostgolfballs.com is also a great place if you want to play around with balls and save some coin. They have a variety of quality of balls from near mint (maybe hit once or twice) to "good" which may have scuffs/marks. They also have tour practice balls different size packs, colored balls.

I've been a MTB-X fan for the last year and half! Love em! Especially when they have their deals and when you can get some friends to go in on 5+ doz to get the best price. But then I picked up some clubhead speed and needed to drop some spin. So I found the Bridgestone Tour B X and gaming that this year.

Precisely what cnosil said. I was fit at my local CC which is a Golf Digest Top 100 fitter. Make your budget and expectations very clear upfront. My fitter spends good time with me and is very thorough. I paid for my first full bag fitting and just bought irons (with OEM shafts). Eventually went back for a driver shaft, hybrids, and after a year upgraded my iron shafts and each time they waived fitting fees. Sure maybe they have been a little more and I've questioned that, but I'm comfortable with my fitter and feel like the time they spend with me is worth the extra cost. Plus I love seeing all my trackman data saved for review later. Even when I priced out my KBS C-taper shafts and grips to buy and install elsewhere, I might have only saved maybe $10/club.

Thanks. I’m pretty excited to see how it goes and looking forward to posting updates.

So I've been interested in armlock putting as I've ventured down the single plane swing path and the armlock style putting with forward press is very similar to my swing style. Current putter setup is 34" TaylorMade Spider Tour Black double bend (standard 3 deg loft and 70 deg lie). I feel very comfortable with a full locked lead arm/more upright setup in putting so figured lets take a look at Armlocks. I have a pretty straight back straight through stroke. I was originally looking into the Odyssey Doublewide and the Bettinardi Studio 28/Kuchar style. I didn't like the fact Odyssey putters had a counterbalanced grip, so if a grip change was needed or wanted, it would comprise the balance of the putter (not really a fan of the SS counterbore). No go for me. I wasn't a fan of the appearance of the Bettinardis. Also, biggest factor was that I wasn't really sure on what shaft length I actually needed (I'm short only 5'6") and most off the shelf arm locks were only 40" or 42". I saw PXG had their Putters (both Gen2 and Battle Ready) on sale currently. I'm also currently gaming Gen 2 0211s and love the way those feel. Seeing as there is a PXG fitter pretty close, I decided to go check them out. Biggest downside PXG charges $50 to schedule the fitting. Seems like the fitter is regularly at this location anyways. Going in, I was eyeing either the Gen2 Mustang or the Spitfire. Both similar in head weight to my current STB, but closer to blade type profile. The Mustang has 2 configurable sole weights while the Spitfire (similar to Scotty Phantom X) has 4 and seems to offer a little more flexibility. The Armlock shaft creates a setup of 7 deg loft and 73 degree lie. The armlock hosel set sets up a face balanced putter. Weight adjustments can be made to accommodate stroke for more toe or heel balanced. The PXG fitting was outdoor and on actual practice putting green which I really liked to get the feel on actual grass. So there was no SAM or electronic measuring equipment. So where we setup on the practice green, the first flag was about a 10 footer and the far flag was about 25ft. Dove right into the Spitfire first and started at a shorter shaft length (for armlock style that is) of 37.5". Putting towards the close flag. Visually, I really liked the smaller head vs my gamer STB. The weight and balance of the club felt very nice and similar to what I was used to. At address I loved how the converging "wings" of the Spitfire guided my focus to the center of club face. It took the thought about the center of face out of my head and I could just stroke it. I noticed immediately the difference in feel of a full milled putter face vs insert putter. The ball came off the face very crisp with little stroke effort and a nice succinct almost "ping" sound at impact. I felt like a barely had to hit it for a nice smooth roll. The fitter did notice from face on, the lie needed to be adjusted to bring the toe down. So 1 deg flat at 37.5". Stroke was smooth. Holed a few of the putts and those that didn't were tap ins. Next I played with length. I went up to 39" which brought be more upright at address and more fitting to the natural club lie. The top end of the grip was right about the 1.5" below my elbow. It was a little uncomfortable as I felt so upright and too restricted against my arm. So we continued decreasing length in 0.5" increments until I felt most comfortable. I wound up right back where I started at a length of 37.5" so more like more mid-forearm for the top of the grip. Now that length was settled in, I swapped over to the Mustang. PXG says the Mustang stock headweight is only about 10g lighter than the Spitfire, but it felt a lot lighter. Regardless, the weight change threw me off and I just couldn't find a stroke and felt like I was struggling with center face impacts. I didn't hole any putts at 10ft. I also didn't hear the same sound at impact. The Mustang was much more muted. So we then went for the 25ft pin so I could swing away and not think as much about a delicate stroke. Needless to say not much changed. I just couldn't stroke with the Mustang. Then swapped back to the Spitfire still keeping the 37.5" shaft and went for the 25ft pin. Distance control was great! Ranging from a few tap ins to mostly within 2ft from the cup. I really loved the feel and sound. For comparison, I went back to my TM STB. My STB felt soft and almost dull. I left majority of putts maybe more in the 3-5ft range from 25ft out. Definietly had to put a little more into the stroke with my gamer STB. Result: Placed my order for the 37.5" Spitfire. PXG did charge $25 upcharge for the SuperStroke 17" grip (flatso 3.0) for the Armlock setup plus a rediculous $30 for shipping. They said it should ship in about a week. I will update here once I play my first round with the Spitfire and then again after a few more rounds. I also just got the Arccos sensors so I should have some good data. Summary: So I read on a few forums, a bunch of people trying the armlock style of putting but then immediately say they don't like it. From my fitting experience, I wonder how many of those people just grabbed an off the shelf length to try it? The wrong length can immediately ruin the whole experience and the stability benefits of "locking" against the lead arm. I know for sure if I would have just picked up a stock 40" club from a big box store or ebay to try, I would have tossed it aside immediately. If you are looking to dabble in Armlock putting, identifying the proper shaft length first is key.

How do I get the donor badge? I made a donation a few weeks ago. I'd also like the Broke 90 badge. 80 is the goal fo this year!

Yes sir still available.

Just curious what do you do for a living RickyBobby that you have had the opportunity to walk through these facilities? I'm assuming you aren't the driver for the Wonder Bread car While PX and UST may not use same graphics but different specs for OEM vs aftermarket, would you say based on what you know and articles/research such as the Golf.com one and others out on the web, that it is conceivable (and maybe becoming less common) other manufacturers may still do this?

Sold.

Swing trainer and Ball position trainer have been sold. Just have the Perfect Impact training club remaining.

Well then glad to compare notes and make sure the info I have or know is correct.

And I'm not trying to argue anything with anyone or saying my knowledge is 100% accurate and yours is not, just simply sharing what knowledge I have.

Well I'm going not only by what materials we have contributed to the sporting goods industry but also discussions I have had with unbiased fitters and I do know the "small group of people in San Deigo." I just used PX as an example name, not saying they do or do not have differences in OEM vs Aftermarket. I'll agree this may not be 100% the case for all shafts, but this is what I have researched and also been told. Do I have a definitive list of bill of materials and specs for all shafts to 100% verify? No, and I bet you do not either. I can 100% tell you that you (nor I) cannot tell the difference visually looking at standard modulus material vs a high modulus material, and in agreement with No Putts Given, I do know offshore mass manufacturing technologies (not just in composite sporting goods) have closed the gap in terms of achieving handcrafted/domestic quality and performance. Offshore labor costs are significantly cheaper which also helps. Why do you think most manufacture overseas? I KNOW for a fact this is the case with hockey sticks. Pro models are considerably different carbon construction from their same retail counterpart. You can visually see the difference in the wall thickness if you cross section a graphite/carbon hockey stick. Our San Diego friends happen to be the same group that also designs those. Quoting an article from Golf.com "It’s important to note some manufacturers have shifted away from “made for” shafts and started putting premium aftermarket versions in their newest products. Others offer the shafts with an upcharge. The difficulty is knowing whether the shaft in your driver is a premium aftermarket version or one that has identical graphics but happens to be made with lower cost materials." https://golf.com/gear/golf-accessories/stock-aftermarket-golf-shafts-fully-equipped/

Let me preface my response with a little background of myself. I have a degree in material science & engineering (how you choose the right material for an application and how to make a material that has the properties you need) and I work for a company that makes high performance synthetic fibers, some of which are in shafts you may be playing! First understand at the end of the day, you are buying a club head (CH) which market price is usually around $500 for a driver. You're not going to buy a $500 driver without being able to swing it or test it, so the CH manufacturer has to give you a shaft with the head. There is no CH manufacturer that makes their own shafts and adding a shaft only then adds to the retail club cost. They understand not every golfer wants to drop $1000 on a single club so the need is for a shaft that doesn't add more to the cost of the head, and every golfer and swing is different so they also need a shaft that can cover a wide range of golfers (95 percentile) to maximize sales. So they form partnerships with shaft manufacturers to provide 'stock' shafts on their clubheads to get the best appealing performace. Remember the shaft is coming out of the CH manufacturer's pocket to get you to buy their $500 head, so what's the best way to keep costs down? Lower quality/materials. A stock shaft that a CH manufacturer sells you with their CH, is not the same as the aftermarket. 'Quality' contains both tolerances (influenced by manfuacturing processes) and material selection itself. When looking at the fibers (carbon, aramid, or other) that go into making shafts, there are two key material properties in this application, Modulus and Tenacity (or simply tensile strength). Modulus is a measure of the stiffness of a material, that is the resistance to deform/bend, and tensile strength is the resistance to break. These properties are inversely related, that is a high strength material would bend much more (i.e. less stiff) before breaking. So for fibers we have standard modulus, intermediate modulus, and then the high modulus and strength (this is typically the aerospace grade fibers). Of couse the higher you go in these properties, the more expensive the material/fiber. So an OEM/stock Project X HZRDUS sold by the CH manufacturer with their head may be made with standard modulus materials (remember the CH manufacturer is paying for this so they need to keep add on costs down so you buy their head) while the aftermarket Project X HZRDUS version sold directly by True Project X may be made with intermediate or high modulus fiber. Because the materials properties and design/number of layers are different, this influences flex profile, shaft kick point, torque (these are not material properties but design properties). The higher performance fibers will have tighter tolerances so ultimately the final performance of the shaft will have more spec consistency based on the design or it could take less layers in the design (ie lighter weight) to get to same required design properties. A stock shaft may very well fit most recreational golfers as it was selected to fit such a wide retail audience with a wide range of misses, but as your swing gets more consistent and repeatable, you may want tighter and higher performance through aftermarket made with higher grade materials to help maintain that consistentcy and really reduce your misses. Sorry for the long winded response but hope this helps!

Strange, I’m following my own thread, but I get no notifications when’s there are replies.

It's been a long journey for me too and I feel I am just starting to get comfortable aside from the short game right now. I just can't believe what a difference when I swapped shafts. When I was conventional, I could not for the life of me hit the KBS C-Tapers. Then fast forward a year and I couldn't swing the original Elevates and loved the feel and results of the C-Tapers. I just need to get the short game practice time in. Recently got a free set of the Arccos sensors and bout the Caddie Link (sensors free if you own a new Ping club in the last 2 years). Looking forward to see what data I get to drive further improvements.

This was a great read! What a journey. I started mine about 9 months ago. Started with the Graves/Moe method (Kenny helped my with some training aids) the first 6 months, but I couldn't get comfortable with distance from the ball to swing like Moe. Also being shorter, Graves ball position/stance width was too wide for me and I was just too inconsistent. Almost wanted to give it up. Then I started following a lot more Kirk Junge over the last 3-4 months (also tempted since he is only about 45 min from me now in South Florida) and find his hybrid setup for impact method must more comfortable for me (narrower stance but still use the Graves ball position, and don't have to worry about keeping back foot down). Both Graves and Junge say its all about the setup and find my misses are all setup dependent. Originally, my SPS miss was a straight hook ending up 35 yards left of target. When getting re-fitted for iron shafts (I'll tell you about that in a moment) I found out my face to path was about 3.5 degrees closed. Fitting seeing that it's said it's about 10yds offline for every degree face is closed/open. I had too much forward shaft lean delofting/closing the face. Fixed my "rod" lead arm and got the face more to square which seems to straighten things out. Going back to fitting, when going from the 2 plane to SPS, did you get refit? Or sounds like you will as you explore single length or graphite shafts? I was fitted in my clubs (PXG 0211 with TT Elevevate 95 Stiff, 2 deg flat, 84 mph swing speed) Jan 2020 with a conventional swing. Sortly after switching to SPS, I gained some good club head speed (about 7mph with irons and 13mph with driver) but was hooking consistantly. I just couldn't control my club face. Also, I noticed a brig drop in smash factor. I really had to be deliberate and slow my swing (6i to about 75-77mph - even slower than when originally fit) to keep ball flight straight and get smash factor back up. So I went to get re-fit for shafts this Jan, and moved up to KBS C-Taper 120g Stiff. Talk about going boardy in shafts!! Also moved up grips to midsize from standard (just couldn't bring myself to dive into the JumboMax). Now no swing thoughts about technical address or what I need to do and I can just swing away. 6i is about 91mph now and hitting straight and baby draws. Makes me wonder how many people get frustrated with SPS without proper fitting or realizing thier gains. Like me, maybe their 2 plane sticks might not be the right setup for SPS? Recently, also switched to the Bryson ball, Bridgestone Tour B X (Previously played Snell MTB-X) and it's been a world of difference! That ball is awesome (only complaint is a little firm/clicky on the putter). With new shafts and gamer ball I got my 6i up to a 182 avg carry. Drives are about 275 average total with the occassional 300+ dropped in. I highly recommend the Tour B X. Like you at one time, I'm at a point now where my short game is costing me a lot of strokes. I just cant get comfortable. More often thin misses and with some occassional fatties thrown in. Constantly trying to adjust something so I'm in my own head. I'm losing at least 10 stokes with wedges 75yds in. Just hard to get the practice time in with a 7 month old baby! Following as I'd love to hear more on your progress!

More specifically I am in the West Boca Raton area. 18 handicap these days. Just looking to meet some new people and possibly get a regular game going.

Strange I never received notification of the post replies and don't have a PM in my box. Items are still available!!!

Single Plane Swing Trainer - $40 Perfect Impact Training Club - $40 GG Ball Position and Alignment trainer - $50 Take all 3 for $115 (+$10 shipping)