Unofficial Review: 4D Motion Golf 3D Swing Shirt

[mpatrickriley]

So I'm a sucker for golf tech.

This morning, the crowdfunding page went live for a gadget I've been eyeballing for a while: the 3D Swing Analysis Shirt from the company 4D Motion. (The 4D/3D conjunction in this product name annoys me.) The basic idea of the product is to bring the motion capture technology of things like GEARS and K-Motion down to the consumer level. The product is a vest with motion sensors; when you swing, it tracks a host of movement numbers. The app is also intended to analyze your swing and recommend specific corrections.

A handful of images from their site, that give an idea of what it's claiming for itself:

So why does this interest me? Initially, I loved golf gadgets because I was going about golf improvement without a coach. I thought that I could buy a launch monitor and some other sensors and improve that way. And while I still think that can be useful, I've found that these kinds of gadgets are even more useful in conjunction with lessons.

In my case, because of my remote location, I get instruction online, through Jayson Nichol on Skillest. Having gadgets like this accomplishes two goals:

• It gives me measurable data to send to Jayson. Obviously, with online lessons, Jayson is typically limited to analyzing swing videos. While that can certainly be useful (and it has been), video can be difficult at times. Camera position matters a bunch, as can lighting, etc. I've found that it can be really good to add LM data to what I send Jayson, or at times, HackMotion wrist data or Dewiz arm movement data. This is another piece to that puzzle.
• But the other advantage of these tools is that, when Jayson does give me something to work on, I can find out what that change that he wants to see would look like in the numbers. Then, when I'm practicing without him, I'm not wondering, "Am I doing that thing he wants me to work on properly?" That immediate feedback ("oh, my downswing was over my backswing" [Dewiz] or "path is still too far left" [Mevo+, SkyTrak+] means that I can measurably chase the things my coach wants to see.

So, to land this intro post: I got in with the early bird special on this vest this morning. They are supposed to ship in December, and I intend to offer my full thoughts here so that others can see if this will be a worthwhile tool for their improvement.

[billpierce]

18 minutes ago, mpatrickriley said:

So I'm a sucker for golf tech.

This morning, the crowdfunding page went live for a gadget I've been eyeballing for a while: the 3D Swing Analysis Shirt from the company 4D Motion. (The 4D/3D conjunction in this product name annoys me.) The basic idea of the product is to bring the motion capture technology of things like GEARS and K-Motion down to the consumer level. The product is a vest with motion sensors; when you swing, it tracks a host of movement numbers. The app is also intended to analyze your swing and recommend specific corrections.

A handful of images from their site, that give an idea of what it's claiming for itself:

So why does this interest me? Initially, I loved golf gadgets because I was going about golf improvement without a coach. I thought that I could buy a launch monitor and some other sensors and improve that way. And while I still think that can be useful, I've found that these kinds of gadgets are even more useful in conjunction with lessons.

In my case, because of my remote location, I get instruction online, through Jayson Nichol on Skillest. Having gadgets like this accomplishes two goals:

• It gives me measurable data to send to Jayson. Obviously, with online lessons, Jayson is typically limited to analyzing swing videos. While that can certainly be useful (and it has been), video can be difficult at times. Camera position matters a bunch, as can lighting, etc. I've found that it can be really good to add LM data to what I send Jayson, or at times, HackMotion wrist data or Dewiz arm movement data. This is another piece to that puzzle.
• But the other advantage of these tools is that, when Jayson does give me something to work on, I can find out what that change that he wants to see would look like in the numbers. Then, when I'm practicing without him, I'm not wondering, "Am I doing that thing he wants me to work on properly?" That immediate feedback ("oh, my downswing was over my backswing" [Dewiz] or "path is still too far left" [Mevo+, SkyTrak+] means that I can measurably chase the things my coach wants to see.

So, to land this intro post: I got in with the early bird special on this vest this morning. They are supposed to ship in December, and I intend to offer my full thoughts here so that others can see if this will be a worthwhile tool for their improvement.

Will be interesting to see how it works!  I love all the AI driven tools but these models need to be tuned to be effective... takes time.

[mpatrickriley]

7 minutes ago, billpierce said:

Will be interesting to see how it works!  I love all the AI driven tools but these models need to be tuned to be effective... takes time.

For sure. I'm currently a bit of an AI skeptic, not in the sense of doubting that it's useful, but currently believing that because it's a hot marketing term, everything is now "AI" powered.

The reality here is that I just want the software to look at the numbers I'm generating and tell me what is out of the typical range of good players. That doesn't require a lot of high end AI.

For what it's worth: I did buy the "Birdie" level of software, which does include the AI analysis. I'll certainly report back on whether that feature adds anything to the experience; if it doesn't I'll plan to let that aspect of the subscription lapse and just keep using the vest to analyze my own data.

[billpierce]

Just now, mpatrickriley said:

For sure. I'm currently a bit of an AI skeptic, not in the sense of doubting that it's useful, but currently believing that because it's a hot marketing term, everything is now "AI" powered.

The reality here is that I just want the software to look at the numbers I'm generating and tell me what is out of the typical range of good players. That doesn't require a lot of high end AI.

For what it's worth: I did buy the "Birdie" level of software, which does include the AI analysis. I'll certainly report back on whether that feature adds anything to the experience; if it doesn't I'll plan to let that aspect of the subscription lapse and just keep using the vest to analyze my own data.

550 bucks, not cheap. Basically new driver or this! Hmmmm

[Josh Parker]

Interesting..... I will be on the lookout for your thoughts on this for sure.  There are some other products out there do some of the items but not all, so it will be interesting to see what this can do for your game.  @mpatrickriley

 

[billpierce]

2 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

Interesting..... I will be on the lookout for your thoughts on this for sure.  There are some other products out there do some of the items but not all, so it will be interesting to see what this can do for your game.  @mpatrickriley

 

I like that it does on the course so easily!

[mpatrickriley]

27 minutes ago, billpierce said:

I like that it does on the course so easily!

This is interesting. I am not paying for the level that includes the "on course" mode, and to date, I have not really been one to take swing gadgets to the course during my rounds. I know that the Dewiz has an on-course mode that is supposed to register swings for analysis after the round. But maybe with this, I'll wear the swing vest for a round next year to see if/how my swing changes from my garage to the course.

[Rob Person]

Interesting tech for sure. And im.sure down the road this type (of not already) will br implemented into both virtual and in person lessons, possibly even fittings, if the metrics are worthy.

Keep us updated!

As a side note, i have a free swing analysis app (Golf Fix) that offers some of the same data. Just not speed factors. It uses points of reference dots.

 Adjust the camera view from the phone. You can choose front, side, or rear view analysis of your swing. 

[billpierce]

40 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Interesting tech for sure. And im.sure down the road this type (of not already) will br implemented into both virtual and in person lessons, possibly even fittings, if the metrics are worthy.

Keep us updated!

As a side note, i have a free swing analysis app (Golf Fix) that offers some of the same data. Just not speed factors. It uses points of reference dots.

 Adjust the camera view from the phone. You can choose front, side, or rear view analysis of your swing. 

Do you pay for this service? Is it accurate?

[mpatrickriley]

41 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Interesting tech for sure. And im.sure down the road this type (of not already) will br implemented into both virtual and in person lessons, possibly even fittings, if the metrics are worthy.

Keep us updated!

As a side note, i have a free swing analysis app (Golf Fix) that offers some of the same data. Just not speed factors. It uses points of reference dots.

 Adjust the camera view from the phone. You can choose front, side, or rear view analysis of your swing. 

Yes, Mark Crossfield (for whom I work, in part) has done videos about SportsBox AI, which does some of the same work. And GolfTec (which owns SkyTrak) has the same kind of thing in their facilities (and they've featured it in PGA Tour broadcasts this year, I believe).

Undoubtedly, that tech will get better and better, making physical sensors like the 4D Motion vest less necessary.

I suspect that right now, physical measurements are likely more accurate than those extrapolated from video. But maybe I should capture a few swings with SportsBox and see how those numbers compare to what 4D is saying.

[billpierce]

Mark is awesome. Love his simplicity and humor 

[Rob Person]

1 hour ago, billpierce said:

Do you pay for this service? Is it accurate?

It's free, but with optional pay for services. It's a great swing position analysis tool app

[mpatrickriley]

Just now, Rob Person said:

It's free, but with optional pay for services. It's a great swing position analysis tool app

Yeah, my understanding with SportsBox is that, if you have the "user" access, you get a very limited amount of data. "Coach" access costs a great deal more. If I grasp the model correctly, you can send your swing to a coach who has coach access, and he can see all of your numbers.

If I'm reading the 4D Motion website properly, once you buy the vest, you always have access to all of the numbers, without any ongoing subscription. The most basic subscription (which I purchased) gets you the AI analysis and cloud storage, so you can track your progress. But if I don't find those features necessary, I'm grateful that I can still get the data from the hardware without a subscription.

[billpierce]

1 hour ago, Rob Person said:

It's free, but with optional pay for services. It's a great swing position analysis tool app

I think when I looked at it to really unlock the analysis you had to pay -- but will look again. Could be confusing it with other tools.