IONEPUTT

A shaft isn't automatically crap because it has a ) torqu rating above 3.0 or because it is available as a no cost upgrade from a manufacturer. I totally agree with this statement above that was recently posted. I have dozens of driver shaft with a torque of 3.0 to 3.5 that are decent shafts. But this is NOT what I was refering to when I mentioned HIGH torque OEM shafts in todays drivers. Most of the extra light weight OEM shafts I'm seeing in todays drivers have a torque of well over 4 and going up to over 6 in many shafts. There was also a post recently saying you can get a $300 shaft in your new $500 driver at NO upcharge fee. If the person that posted that really believed this is true, I;ll let them live in their fairyland world of dreams. I have a driver with one of thsed so called $300 shafts in it. I also have the REAL after market shaft with the same name as the OEM shaft that came with the driver. When I checked the specs for the OEM shaft I found that it had a torque of 4.5, while the after market shaft of the same name has a torque of 3.2. NOT the same shaft at all. The OEM shaft also has a lower kick point and is about 7 grams lighter than the real aftermarket shaft. Also the OEM shaft was a different color, so there is not way it's the same shaft, just has the same name on it. Again, I'll let you decide if you are really getting a $300 aftermarket shaft in that new driver. And before you tell me not all shafts are measured the same way for torque, I already know this fact. But what YOU don't know is that I happen to have a test setup that allows me to measure the torque of any shaft I want to measure. And when I test a shaft, I do it the EXACT SAME WAY with every shaft I test, so what I see from my hands on measuring test IS the same for all shafts. So what I find is real data, not just what the shaft company tells us.

THE STRAIGHTEST SHAFT IN GOLF ACCORDING TO THE GOLF LABORATORY TESTING cnosil This is taken from the Steadfast site and it shows ball dispersion due to off center hits with a driver. I can only assume that you will agree that most if not all golfers hit the ball off center from time to time. Most golfers do it quite a lot from what I've seen watching videos of driver reviews done on a Trackman. They show off center hit much more often than not. And this chart shows what happens with off center hits. The Steadfast shaft has a torque of 2.3* while the other 3 are much higher, and you can see how much more offline the balls fly. I can only hope that you can see the advantage of having a lower torque shaft from looking at this chart. IF NOT, I do not know what I can tell you to change your mind. So you know, this test was done NOT by Steadfast but by Golf Lab, an independant company used by a lot of companies to test their products to provide an unbiased report. Please feel free to pick which shaft you would want in your driver. I'll go with the tighter ball pattern using the Steadfast shaft every time.

Used RH Callaway GBB Epic Max 10.5* Driver Mamiya Helium Shaft Regular Flex +HC See original listing Condition: Used Ended: Mar 17, 2022 , 9:19PM Winning bid: US $222.50 [ 47 bids ] Shipping: $12.99 Economy Shippi As for NOT being able to find an Epic Max for less than $250-$275, that was just more false information being posted on this site. The above driver just sold tonight for $222.50. So much for what some of you are stating as fact that turns out to be false. If you want to know why I didn't buy this driver it's because it came with a piece of crap 45 gram R flex shaft with a torque rating of over 6*. NOT exactly what I would call a good shaft for my over 100 MPH swing speed. Way too light and way too much twisting action and on the soft side as well. Buying this driver would be like buying just the head and at that price I'll wait for a better deal thank you.

I just checked on e-bay and I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for less than $250 - $275. Unless the wrench is something unusual and different than what is used on other brand drivers, you should be able to find one easily and cheap. Heck I have about 5 Taylormade wrenches on hand. You are correct, I could find a wrench online if I wanted, but it would be nice if the wrench came with the driver, as well as the headcover. But it seems you and others seem to want to keep the wrench and headcover when you no longer have the driver for some reason. Not sure why anyone would want to keep a headcover for a driver after they sell the club. Just makes no sense to me. But if is quite common going by what I've found online. AT least 90% of drivers do NOT include the headcover. Maybe it's some kind of ego trip thing. having dozens of used headcovers to prove how many drivers they have had over the years. Why do YOU have 5 TM wrenches? Do you have 5 TM driver or fairway woods too? As for finding a driver for less than $250-$275. fact is I have. Just not interested in either the LS model nor do I want a 9* head. Just not a good fit for me. I also do not want to pay for a driver shaft that is 45 grams with a extremely high torque value that would be a waste of my money as I would have to just get a new shaft for the head to use it.

You keep saying you are a "builder" so I am assuming that you aren't a fitter, but is your approach to shaft selection to focus only on torque? The answer to your question is NO. I do not look only at torque. But I do look at the torque rating of a shaft before I buy. I know from my experience that a low torque shaft works best for me in terms of left to right shot pattern. I also Spine and FLO align every shaft I use when building a club so I know the shaft will perform as well as it can in the finished club. Again, my testing and that of my customers shows me that if a shaft is NOT Spine and FLO aligned it's a corn toss whether it will perform as is should in the club. Based on reading your posts cnosil, all you want to do here is argue with what I post, and not listen to what I post. What I said about NOT believing what TT is saying about torque not mattering is because TT is selling high torque graphite shafts at a very high price, shafts that are NOT all the great. Every shaft company today is telling golfes that their NEW line of shafts are much better than what was available when SST Puring came along, and now it is not needed as their newest shafts are made much better. Truth is I've tested some of these high dollar new shafts, shafts that cost up to $500 a shaft, and they ALL show signs of having a spine and they do NOT FLO in every alignment, but rather they only FLO in one of two alignments. Say what you want, but that is what my 18 years of spine and FLO aligning of shafts has taught me.

FACT is I DID watch the video from True Temper about torque, and MY experiece with building golf clubs for almost 20 years tells me the guy is full of BS. ALL of those TT videos are made by a shaft company, NOT by people that build clubs. EVERY OEM claims their new clubs are better than last years model and you the golfer NEED to buy a new one as soon as you can. Just go out and SPEND your money and give it to the OEM's. Well hear this. NOT ME, I'M KEEPING MY MONEY AND THE OEM'S CAN GO STUFF IT UP THEIR SIX.

Edit: also never came up in the conversation with UST when it comes to fitting golfers. Danny looked at ball flight, swing and launch monitor numbers to determine shaft. You say that you have never had a discussion about torque with UST. That may be true for you, but I've talked to them about it with their VTS line of driver shafts. The letters in VTS stand for Variable Torque System in case you are not aware of that. What I learned from speaking with UST is that their Lo torque verwion of the VTS shafts DO in fact provide a tighter shot pattern compared to their Mid or Higher torque version of the same shaft, flex for flex. You claim that torque is ALL about FEEL. And that may be true for you, But for ME, "Feel" is the "last" thing I look for in a good shaft. What matters to me is "Performance" and pretty much nothing else. I've "Read" online in forums like this one that a lot of average golfers do not like the "FEEL" of a low torque shaft when they try one. My BET on this is that after hitting a "HIGH" torque shaft in their drivers for years, a Low torque shat just feels weird to them. BUT if that golfer was to take the time to learn to "Get Used" to the feel of the Lower torque shaft they might just learn to like it and be happy with the improved performance a low torque shaft can provide in the form of a tighter shot pattern.

Interesting that you posted a link to TPT Golf, as I did a shaft fitting with their line of shafts about 3 years ago. In the fitting the fitter picked a mId torque shaft as being best for me, even when the Trackman numbers clearly showed that I had a much tighter ball pattern with the Lo torque version of the same shaft. Carry distance was 2 more yards with the Lo torque shaft and total distance was 1 yard less with the Lo torque shaft. With the Lo torque shaft I hit 80 % of fairway and with the Mid torque shaft I hit 50%, so I have no idea why the fitter picked the Mid torque shaft as being the best fit for me. After the fitting, I sent the Trackman results directly to TPT and then talked to the head shaft designer at TPT and the designer agreed with ME and NOT with the fitter. He then sent me one of theire Lo torque shafts, same shaft as I hit in the driver fitting, and I'm still using that low torque shaft in a Ping driver The head shaft designer also told me that a lower torque shaft WILL give a golfer a tighter left to right shot pattern just about every time. My driver head speed is around 104 MPH and for me I get a shot pattern that is TWICE as tight when I hit the Lo torque TPT shaft compared to the Mid torque version of the same shaft. I"ve been building golf clubs for close to 20 years now, and my experience is that a lower torque shaft always gives a tighter shot pattern than a higher torque shaft will. That has been MY experience and the gentleman at TPT fully agrees with me.

I would NOT think that a 45 minute drive would be too much of a barriet to improve your driver performance. If it is then I wish you all the luck you can get. I would think spending $500 to $600 on a new driver without getting fit would be a bad choice for most any golfer.

I really hope the op of this thread figures out how to gain more distance with his driver, but I doubt he will if he goes by the mis information that is being posted here by at least 4 guys posting things thar are not true. I'm also getting tired of trying to post the truth when half of the people posting here are posting garbage that is just not true. So I hope this site has a nice time telling fairy tales to one another with no regard to facts and truth. I have much better things to do than try to post the facts when all most of you want to do is live in your dream world. I think I'm done wasting my time here.

I checked the specs for the PX Hardus im10 shaft and the torque rating is way too high to be a good shaft for most anyone. High torque shafts give a much wider left to right shot pattern if your swing speed is over about 60, so that means it's pretty much useless for any good golfer looking to find the fairway. I've done the testing and I know from experience this is true. And if you really believe you are getting a $300 shaft when you buy a $500 driver you are dead wrong and just kidding yourself. There are dozens of articles online that will tell you the same thing if you care to do the research.

I don't play any OEM shafts in any of my clubs. All OEM shafts that are not a "true" aftermarket shaft, You also need to know that even if you had two Ping shafts of the exact same make and model and flex, there would be a difference between the two. NO two shafts are EXACTL the same no matter who made them or how well they were made. If you had 10 shafts and weighted each of them you would fine a difference between each of them. Could be 2 to 3 grams difference from one to the next. So you can not be sure of what you will get when you buy a shaft, especially with a low end OEM shaft. And I have not even mentioned spine and FLO alignment of the shafts as that is a whole other subject that can make a huge difference is how a shaft will perform in the head.

I honestly do NOT care what any tour player can do with a 2* aoa. Fact is this guy is struggling with getting good carry distance from his 110 MPH club speed and is asking for help. And that is what I offered him, Help in gaining more carry yards by increasing his aoa to get the most from his speed. If you don't like my advice, I couldn't care less about it. My advice was NOT directed to you but the golfer that started this thread. If all you can do is attack me for offering my advice, that's your problem and just one more reason I'm not very impressed with the bad advice I see being posted on this site by people like you.

YOU need to learn how to read the English language. I did NOT say the face angle would not change with a loft adjustment, what I typed was that it does NOT make any difference if it changes or not. ALL a golfer has to do is AIM the clubface at the target before taking a grip on the club, and any face angle change is NOT an issue. Why worry about whether the face angle changes when all you have to do is AIM the face where you want to hit the ball and it's a mote point?

You stated in another post that you do NOT want to change your swing. I find it sad you are not willing to make a few simple and easy adjustment to your swing to increase your launch angle and get more carry distance from your 110 MPH club head speed. Simply put, 2 degrees upward angle of attack is just NOT enough to get the most out of your speed. You should be looking to get a 6* or 7* upward attach angle for more carry. Clay Ballard has a nice short video on exactly HOW to increase your attack angle and get more carry yards if you are willing to make a few small changes in your set-up. If you truly are NOT willing to make this simple change, then I wish you luck as you are going to need all the luck you can get.

This nonsense about whether a shaft can effect launch and spin is one reason I do NOT care to much for what is being posted here. So much of what is being posted is just plain Wrong. And I really have to "Langh" when I read how changing the loft or lie of a driver means the face angle will open or shut at the same time. This just makes me lauch so hard. I don't know about you other golfers here, but when I play golf, I aim the face of the club where I want to ball to go, I do NOT just grab the club and swing at the ball. If YOU don't know enough by now to AIM the face of your clubs where you want the ball to go, It's "TOO" late already. You will NEVER learn how to play this crazy game if you don't learn to aim the face where you want to ball to go "BEFORE" you take your grip on the club. Try this simple test; Tee up a ball on a mat, then set your driver behind the ball and LOOK at the face. With a lot of drivers the face will be pointing off to the right and IF you just take your grip with the face that way, you will get exactly what you deserve. a big fat slice. But IF you are smart enough to "Aim" the face of your driver AT your target, will might just see the ball fly straight at the target and not slice. Bottom line is do NOT worry about whether adding loft to your driver will open or close the club face. Instead just learn HOW to aim the face at your target, "Before" you take your grip with your lead hand and it's just NOT an issue.

I went to Golf Galaxy last week and they had about a dozen used Epic Max drivers in their used club racks. So the fact is that some golfers do trade them in and get a lot less than what you are saying is what they go for online. And as I stated last post here not all golfers want to hassle with selling a used club online, they just trade them in, And that is the golfer I'm hoping to find on this site with a good used Callaway Epic Max to sell. May not happen but I'm willing to make the effort to see what can be found here. If the only way I can get an Epic Max for the price I'm willing to pay is just buying a head, then I'm willing to go that route. Since every OEM driver I've seen online comes with a cheap low quality shaft, buying just the head is not a bad way to go. I intend to replace the low quality OEM shaft with a much better after market shaft anyway, buying just the head is very much an option for me. I've looked online for about 2 weeks now and every driver listed has a high torque shaft that is pretty much worthless to me. I'd be willing to bet that those cheap OEM shafts are the main reason I'm seeing so many one year old drivers listed for sale online. They just don't perform very well as they come from the factory. And let's not forget what I posted before, what a club sells for is NOT what the seller gets, after they pay the fees they have to pay to the online dealers. E-Bay doesn't do there part for free as we all know. Fact is I'm NOT in any hurry to build up a new driver so I can wait as long as it takes to get what I want at a price I'm willing to pay. I do not NEED a new driver so if no one is willing to sell me a use one at a decent price, I can live with what I have, which is much better than what the OEM's are selling off the rack with those low end shafts.

I have seen a few Epic Max drivers on E-Bay sell for just over $200, so I can hope to find one from a person that does NOT want to hassle with selling a club on E-Bay. And as we all know E-Bay charges a few to sell a club, so the seller does NOT get the full sales price, so that can be figured into the mix on what an Epic Max is worth when sold. And I'm open to buying just a head without a shaft if that would bring the price down to what I'd be willing to pay. Since I plan the re-shaft the head anyway, just a head and head cover would work fine for me. Most of the Epic drivers for sale on E-Bay are the LS model which is not a good match for my game, which is why I'm looking to pick up the regular version of the Epic Max and not the LS.

I just did a Trade-In check to see what a used 2012 Epic Max would be worth at trade-in and I got a figure of $151.20. That was at Dick's Sporting Goods. Not sure what other stores might be willing to offer but it's a good idea of what a used Callaway would be worth if you were to trade it in. I"m looking for one with a Stiff or X flex shaft should you have one you would be willing to sell. IF you have one in good condition I'd be willing to go above that $151 price Dick's would offer. Let me know if you have on for sale please.

After doing some research on drivers with adjustable hosels I've decided to get a Callaway Epic Max driver. Right handed with either 10.5* or 12* of loft. NOT the Max LS as i do not need a low spin design. If you have a Callaway Epic Max in good condition and would be willing to sell it please let me know. I've been doing some online looking and most drivers being sold do NOT come with the head cover for some reason. Seems like a lot of golfers collect the fool things for some reason. I'd like to get a use driver with both the head cover and the wrench if possible. Please let me know if you have one for sale when you get a chance. Thanks in advance for your help in this.

'm going to try one of their Jupiter 1 driver shafts as soon as I get my hands on a Callaway Epic Mas driver to install it in. Test results with off center hits is very impressive and shows how a low torque shaft can give you straighter drives compared to higher torque shafts. When I was fit for a driver shaft 2 years ago I got much tigher shot patterns when I hit balals with a low torque shaft compared to a mid torque shaft. 59% fairways hit went up to 89% hit with the low torque shaft in a Ping 440 Max driver head. Now I just need to find a nice Epic Max driver head at a good price to get this project started. Anyone have one for sale? Right handed either 10.5 or 12* would be good.

YES, I know the lofts of all of my clubs in my bag. Main reason is that I built the clubs and have the loft data of the club heads I used to build my set. I have a few sets of irons, and all of them have higher lofts than what is being sold today. My irons have right at 4 degrees more loft than what is being sold today, and that's the way I like them. I'm NOT impressed with todays irons just because the new 6 iron goes 20 years farther than mine. If I need more yards I just use one more club.

When I started playing golf 20 years ago. I picked up a few dozen of the MaxFli Tour balls on sale for under $10 a dozen. I got both the regular Tour ball as well as the LT version which has more spin but a lower ball flight so it will not balloon from the higher spin numbers. I loved that ball and I still have a couple dozen of them left in my stash of tour balls. If the new Tour balls are as good as the 20 year old version, they should be great.

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket? NOT my idea of a good idea.

There is a website by an instructor that teaches his students to use shorter shaft driver and how it can mean more yardage and more fairways hit. A few years ago I built a 3 irons to a 7 iron length to see what would happen. What I found was that I lost about 5 yards with the shorter 3 iron, but I was hititng it a good bit straigher. And after a bit to get used to the shorter club, I was on AVERAGE, not losing much at all. Longest shots WERE shorter, but my average was not much shorter at all. Just better ball striking and less off-line with the shorter shaft. So I ended up builting an entire set of irons with 1/4" between clubs instead of the usual 12". I started with the standard 9 iron length of 36" and than added 1/4" per club instead of the normal 1/2". What little distance I lose now on my best shots are made up for with more consistant ball striking and more accuracy with all of my iron shots.