Beakbryce

That says it all! Thanks for that.

This discussion is not about recycled balls as they are truly not deserving. I have bought one dozen new golf balls in the last 10 years and that only because I was sent a Dick's gift card and there wasn't anything else to buy there. I find on the course and then use several different brands of quality balls and it doesn't seem to affect my score. I have played Titleist balls to where the Titleist almost can't be read. Trust me that if the ball was ruining my score it would get tossed. For most people, the ball is much higher quality than their swing. I think MGS should hit a single ball a couple of hundred times and see exactly what the yardage and offline difference is from beginning to end. That would be a cool test and maybe put to rest this notion that a ball like the Pro V1 can't be hit a couple of hundred times without significant loss. I have found a couple of balls that didn't fly right, but easy to diagnose after a swing or 2 and I just tossed those. 99% still playable. Every found ball is like $2-5 in savings to be put towards other stuff. Like clubs, bags, green fees. It's all about priorities.

Uh, yes!

The reason there are so many grinds in specialty wedges, like Vokeys, is to optimize turf conditions and swing path. In my local area, desert golf, one would think that the turf is always rock hard so maybe buy a grind for that turf. But it isn't true all year round. I have Vokeys, and they play better during the summer than the winter. If you buy irons and they interact with the turf in a pleasant way, then I think set wedges. I am really looking for a replacement for my 50 Vokey and having bought Rogue ST irons this year I am thinking about their gap wedge as I like the turf interaction.

So, the whole bag was safe, right? Pulled the trigger on a Paradym X 5 hybrid to maybe better fill the only kind of gap in my bag. I have a heaven wood and a 4 hybrid at about the same degree lofts but use the 4 for low shots and wood for high shots. Additionally, the longer shaft on the heaven wood results in a 10 yard difference. The problem is the next club down is a 6 hybrid so have been trying, with mixed success, to choke down on the 4 hybrid to cover the yardage gap. Hence the 5 hybrid. Callaway pre-owned has a 24% off sale going and I found one with the shaft in my 6 hybrid that I really like. Time of year means it isn't shipping for a few days. Stand by for a mini review and how the gapping works going forward.

when I started playing I watched to see how I could improve. There was a lot more demo work during the broadcast which increased my understanding of the game. Now we are lucky to see one swing analysis and it's usually the driver. I read a lot of golf magazines as well. I still watch all year long. I watch them all btw, PGA, LPGA, college. I watch in fast forward. I slow down for good shots. To many commercials, too much talk from the talking heads. I really hate it when they are doing the best player to not win a major or best players not playing well. It's a 40 year career for these players. Slumps? I am surprised there aren't more slumps. There is a reason I really like the European announcers. Some light reminiscing and a little yardage work. None of this "it's an impossible shot" that a 10 handicapper could handle. Sure, some of them are really hard, but a lot of them are mere hyperbole. Especially out of traps. Let's face it. They went from Venturi to Miller to Azinger to Immelmann. They all spoke the truth but it's a lot kinder and gentler group now days. VANILLA. Kizner, now that should be fun. Golf magazines are all about selling expensive golf crap. Nothing new there anymore. Or maybe at 71 I have just lost my patience. There are better how to videos on you tube now than any telecast tries to provide. Thank you Quite The Chap. Want to grow the game? Show people how to play it. Sure I want to watch the players going at each other. Love the pressure. It's amazing that out of a 156 player field one person ends up better when they are all good. I had 2 rounds this year where it felt like I couldn't miss. Must be how they feel day in and day out. Would it kill them to show the really difficult shots from the day before, analyze lie etc, what options were available, and then demo the shot from the same location? They could do this before play the next day and intersperse those within the telecast. Say 2 an hour. I would rather see 8-10 of those than watch players wonder around the green looking at a 2 foot putt for what seems like 10 minutes. I mean, who needs the line on the ball lined up for a 2 foot putt? With todays greens, I would like to see a player have to putt out and get it done in less than 90 seconds. By that I mean when it is your turn, you putt until it's in the hole and you have 90 seconds. The greens look hard enough not to really bother if one is on someone's line. If they are soaked, then revert to todays way. Lets go. In fact, shot clock for everyone. Set up behind the green. Like football.

Home simulator equipment. The ongoing Rapsado test is very illuminating as the kinks are worked out. Those testers and other contributors have one of the best test threads going. I am intensely interested in "quiet" nets, turf mats, and launch monitors.

Look at Sun Mountain. Good time of year to buy last years model. Good prices.

Absolutely one of the funniest things I have read this year! and so true.

I haven't but if they have a demo near me I will go try them out. Thank you.

I work with one of their reps when I am buying clubs and he said not on the pre-owned site. That may have changed. Regardless, I always ask. Also AARP membership, best looking guy in my neighborhood, golf nut, MGS tester, and anything else I can think of! and, before you ask, the best looking guy in my neighborhood gets the biggest laugh!

It's all good. But then... At the beginning of this year I wasn't really looking for any new clubs. Lucked into deals for 8-9-PW when the Rogue ST irons went on sale with an additional military discount. Then I was just fooling around and took the Odyssey questionnaire on what putter I would play and ended up buying an Eleven. Thank you to the Gods of my ancestors and the Putting Gods! That putter and the new clam shell grip I found online at the same time has cured my yips. Actually making some good putts. Maybe a GBB 19 5 hybrid?

Thank you for the info. I am not actually looking for a new driver. My Epic is fine. However, if I can feel it in my hands I would try it, so it is on my list. I had just noted that the sound of the newer drivers was muted thud. From the discussion, it looks like a majority of golfers prefer that so probably why the manufacturers are going that way. I like to feel the hit in my hands so sound isn't as big a factor for me. If the driver was 15-20 yards longer, I wouldn't really care how it sounds... Maybe that's the secret the manufacturers have found in their testing. Everyone can live with a muted thud if the driver outperforms significantly what they have, but if it is too loud, they lose a significant portion of buyers who just won't purchase a loud driver. I have always waited several generations between drivers. They all advertise longer, but my perception is they aren't all that much longer over the last few years, but they are definitely getting straighter. Maybe that's a topic for another day.

Mostly Titliest Pro V's and Vice pro plus. MGS has shown that higher compression balls work better for every ball speed and I concur with that as I hit a lot of different balls. We find a lot of balls on our course and I have tried them all. Interestingly, I found a Pinnacle Soft the other day and hit it. I kind of thought it was an oxymoron as Pinnacles are rocks. I hit it because I had just read that it would pass the new ball test proposed by the USGA. It went nowhere. I only hit it once so didn't think about the sound.

I agree. If it can't be felt in the hands, I am not into the club.

I started with wood woods. Maybe the sound is what drew me to the original GBB when it first came out. What a revelation sound wise. I still have that club, maybe I will take it out in the next few weeks. Probably won't be as impressed.

I like a rifle shot sound so you may be on to something there. I hate the dull thud. I play with lots of people with different drivers and most times I couldn't tell you how the other drivers sound, it's just not memorable. I wonder if the companies have focus groups that listen to driver sounds and vote for the one they would like to play. Would be interesting to "hear" those results. You are right in that with the metallic sound it may be easier to figure out where it hit on the club head as it gets tinnier enhancing "feel". If it is a dull thud all over it just doesn't work. I also wonder if this is a swing speed issue. Want a larger bell sound, hit the bell harder! Gosh I hope that isn't true because I am at that age where the swing speeds begin to decline.

It struck me in the last few days that either I lack any feel and sound discrimination, or the hot new clubs just don't appeal to me. If you have read any of my posts about drivers, the realization that I love my years old Epic driver is well, epic. I just went through the Mizuno long game review process and the driver left me cold. I wasn't into the sound which I felt was not memorable and couldn't feel where the ball hit on the clubface. I passed them on to test to @Silver Fawkes and while he just got them, he already appears to love the sound and possibly the feel. You might want to follow his review as he tries out the driver, 3 wood, and 4 hybrid as it already looks like he is going to be a strong reviewer. Anyway, back to this discussion. When the Stealth first came out I hit one at a demo day and wasn't impressed. I had a chance over Christmas to hit the Ping 430 driver and the Paradym X driver. Both clubs are highly rated for my swing speed. I wasn't enthusiastic about the sound or feel of any of these clubs. This is pretty weird as I have always liked Callaway woods and have felt in the last several years that Ping is building nice woods. I was really hoping in particular the Paradym X would blow my socks off because I have started looking for a reasonable price on Callaway pre-owned and am now rethinking that notion. I'm hoping I can blame the lack of sound to my years being around jets and guns, but feel? Really trying to find an excuse. Please let me know if you have started to discern less feel and sound from the new generation drivers or it's just me! I hate to see a grown man cry, but I can take it.

Looks like you are well on your way. Very informative write up so far. Love the numbers. That spin rate is what killed the clubs for me. I can't wait to see the optimized profile with a shaft fit to you. I found your discussion of the sound fascinating. Maybe someday we retake the PAT together!

yes... all the time. It works. Although I use a regular divot tool.

Required reading in the Marines when I was in. Have to believe there is at least one Marine in the USGA hierarchy. It has way more applicability to business than say "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" and other required reading for MBA students. Just saying. The USGA learned they didn't have the War Chest they needed when Solheim came after them over square grooves. Taking the long approach they now have loads of money and scads of media attention over the new ball test. Just the fact that this thread appears to be one of the longest in MGS history shows they have accomplished a good part of their goal, meaning buy in and capitulation from the people that matter even though the consensus seems to be most of us peasants don't want it. Classic Tzu. I think they have already won this battle without taking any kind of hit, leaving them to enact other stuff sooner rather than later. "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." I would be curious how many dues paying members of the USGA don't renew. My guess is not a lot.

This topic is way to heavy but... Stop keeping score. Respect the process and not the result. Stop bearing down for the rest of the round after a bad shot because that makes each and every following shot critical, when it isn't. It's just one of many. So many... You are overthinking a process that may have many thoughts during setup but, and this is critical, just one thought during the swing. If you have one problem club, hit your drive and then hit from that clubs yardage until you can't stand it anymore, and then hit it again. Whatever you do, don't go mindlessly whacking a bucket of balls with that club. Hit with other clubs and hit it every third or fourth shot. Or you could just get that club measured to make sure it still meets specs or buy a new one. Just saying. If it is more than one club, like all your woods, or long irons, or wedges, seek help. Lots and lots of help. Professional help. Your golfing buddies probably have plenty of tips. Surely that is a better way to go than worrying about all that memory stuff you are hoping to conquer. I will tell you that in 5 years time, whatever is holding you back now will not be present then. Please cease your worry over the present and worry about what it will be in 5 years because it will be something else entirely! Ok, so mostly tongue in cheek here. But the process and not worrying about score is critical to getting better. To many people write to much stuff about golf being in the 5 inches between your ears. Even if it is 99% mental, you MUST learn to respect the 1% that isn't.

Just an aside. Love this scorecard with pace of play.

Course rating procedures were developed by who again? Trained raters visit courses and evaluate them using specific guidelines provided by the USGA. Subjectively, it appears the guidelines are based largely on yardage instead of agronomy. They do not take into account todays agronomy, course conditions being what they are now on even the least kept up courses as opposed to general condition of courses back when. Additionally, pro golfers are not scratch players. Apples and oranges. The only way this comment works is if the trained raters went back and rated the courses as they played agronomically, not just yardage, in whatever year you want to compare. Have to believe that shot values back when would include fairway cuts and green speeds that would make the courses harder which would negate the distance difference and the strokes number. Since this isn't going to happen we are as you say, being subjective. However, logic has to intrude somewhere in this discussion. If you don't think it was difficult to play golf in the 70's or 80's, hitting to shaggy fairways and putting greens at 6-8 on the stimp meter, you aren't going to believe the course rating of today is pretty mystical in comparison. Clearly you won't believe that the runways pros hit into today are responsible for the additional 17 yards to correspond with the additional 300 yards of course length and your 1.3 stroke difference. Again logically, many of us believe the USGA has brought this on themselves by killing golf courses for the US Open to obtain hard and fast playing fields which exacerbates and skews the distance "problem".

Mostly keep the wrist quiet while chipping. Have some stock yardages: 30 and 40 yards=58 wedge 50 yards=54 wedge 60 yards=50 wedge Place the ball just inside the back foot and use a straight back straight through putt stroke that is slightly longer. Hands ahead with a square clubface. Not much if any body rotation. This is a good running chip method for me. If one doesn't stay down though this shot it is a shank waiting to happen. Practice it every day. Can use it for low ball flight for longer than 60 yards but that requires a lot of practice and feel figuring out yardages. When pitching, break the wrists with the ball maybe an inch forward of the chipping spot which gets height and more spin. Play this with more of the bounce. I am with the group that uses the body to turn through the ball, facilitated by lifting my right heel a little. If I am short sided with a bunker or hazard, I make sure to get it on the green and take the bogey if I miss the putt. Probably the only time I don't go for it when in trouble. Difference between pitching and chipping for me is the height of the ball. I chip most of the time because our greens are open to the front and at least one side and it is easier to adjust the stock yardage for green speed than figure out bounce bounce stop.