Grit Golf

By far it's any lie on a hillside. If the ball is above my ankles or a club head below my feet I have to chip out sideways or face a 50/50 chance of hitting the ball at all. My local course is cut through a bunch of hills and if you get out of position you have a good chance of finding yourself trying to scrape your way out of an awkward lie. Had a few round killer holes caused by awkward lies.

I bought a pickup truck bed worth of components from the estate of a mom/pop club builder. He built mostly dynacraft stuff, so I got a lot of odd components from the 80s. I believe hireko bought out dynacraft the same way that diamond golf bought wishon? From what I understand Dynacraft was a big name with amateur club builders and both dynacraft and hireko did/do a lot of club building education and seminars. As far as the lower end of components go, the only ones that really deserve the bad rap are the "clones". Quality is really poor.

I took mine out for a cobra ltd 4w and consolidated the 3 and 5 wood. The ltd fairways are monsters, there's a reason cobra staffers are still bagging them even though they are like 5 release cycles old.

I went for the deal as well, only downside is the 3 week assembly delay, I can't wait for mine to get delivered! I went with the 0811XF Gen 2, based on the MGS CG/MOI report it occupies a unique spot in the CG and forgiveness charts that only the ping gmax, and Cobra speedzone xtreme w the tour length weight can match. I'm fighting the hooks right now and based on a video from the TXG guys I'm hoping the max forgiveness can help stabilize the head. When I saw I could get the PXG new w hzrdus smoke yellow cheaper than either the ping or cobra, it was a no brainer!

I just bought these electrolyte packets called liquid iv from Costco, I'm going to give that a try. The cooling towels are a good tip. I'm trying to be smarter about it. I'm half considering the rash guard/under armour type fisherman's shirts as well, bit I don't know if that would help or hurt w the heat?

The quarry is awesome down by you!

This thread rocks! I got mild sun sickness after a long round last week (while wearing spf 50 no less). I seem to get zapped once or twice a year and wind up with a pounding headache after the round despite hydrating and wearing spf 50. I was planning on switching from a ball cap to a wide brim style hat as a result, many good recommendations here!

Hi guys, Joe from sunny Cleveland Ohio! I started golf late (@27 years old), and have been at it for 6 years. It's a hard game to learn at any age, and I've been chipping away at the handicap, I'm currently playing off a 16. I'm a tinkerer, I love the equipment side of golf. I also love the process of getting better. I've learned alot about myself through golf. I pore through the most wanteds and love the data driven approach to mygolfspy, that's what drew me in. I use tableau in my day job and when I saw embedded reports instead of marketing hype I knew I had found the right community. Cleveland, Ohio area. Home course is Boulder Creek. The best thing about golf in our region is the courses and professionals (both teachers and fitters) are FANTASTIC. Worse part is the weather and short season! I'm in the "digital marketing" business (web sites, online ads, email and such) and have a technical web and database background. The unofficial motto of the city of Cleveland is 'its STILL Cleveland against the World'. We're an underdog town with a hard-working scrappy attitude. I have a small workshop in my basement for golf equipment and an eBay shop that I call GRIT Golf because it reflects the mindset of hanging tough in a round, of putting in the work to get better, and of the DIY approach I believe in on the equipment side.

Pinhawks are a separate entity, and they are pretty good. Dave Tutelman preferred pinhawk heads over other single lengths due to their matching of his "progressive gapping" preference. He talks about it in a 3 piece article on his site that's pretty dense w data and analysis (if that's your thing). I have a dynacraft hollow body driving iron that I got from hireko for $17 (for the head). I paired that up w a recoil pull and I love that club, it's my go-to for tee shots if driver isn't behaving. What I will say is that I glued together a few of their sets for buddies and lofts, lies and head weights are not spot on. I have a loft lie machine in the basement, so no big deal. Other than that they work.

For me, I was leaving the face open with the t1100 and I often do that w other low torque shafts, especially if the flex is too stiff in the mid section of the shaft. It was plainly visible on trackman. I think there's value in using torque and EI curves to narrow the field so to speak. My fitter was talking to me about torque, so right or wrong he was using that number as one data point. I'll have to educate myself on why you shouldn't look at torque? That's new information to me. Up to this point I've trusted Russ Ryden's site for that info because he measures all shafts he reviews the same way on the same equipment. Regardless of what the ping shafts are based on or who makes them, Im saying it's my opinion that it is refreshing they don't call it some made up name like "Elements Chrome Xtra Bling" - they call it ping tfc419. That's more honest. I also think ping does a great job of collaborating with their suppliers on design, I see a disproportionate amount of people happy w ping "made fors". To me, that adds to the value of the brand and removes confusion. Just my 2 cents.

I think the poll is a false dichotomy, but I get the point. And I do think the right shaft, whether aftermarket, free upgrade, or OEM offering is super important. I've never bought a new iron set, but have bought a few individual clubs new here and there. I usually buy the club(s) I want lightly used with a senior or sometimes ladies flex (always cheaper on eBay) and put what I want in. Good example, I just snagged Mizuno 919 forged on eBay for $379 that had ladies flex Tensei. Pulled the tenseis out, listed them for $80, and threw in C tapers that I pulled from my last set before I sold it. $300 and some shipping all in to get exactly what I wanted in a mint set.

TO BE CLEAR, the t800 and the t1100 are different shafts. Different in everyway, most notably the t1100 gets its name from the carbon fiber pre-preg used to give it it's stiffness and resistance to hoop deformation (t1100). That material is super expensive, so in the "made for" Callaway used a lower modulus carbon, called t800. If you are a member of Russ Ryden's golfshaftreviews site you can see the EI curves, they perform quite differently. It's a members site, so I won't steal his IP by posting it here. 1) Now on to your question, does that make it worse. In the t800 vs t1100 example (GBB Epic), the t800 is a better shaft for MOST golfers. It's higher torque which helps close the face, and it promotes a dynamic upward angle of attack while stabilizing the head well for a light shaft. T800 fit me better than the t1100, I tried both when I was gaming the Epic. Golfers at the elite level will likely feel differently. It's also helpful that it's a cheaper shaft to make (helpful to Cally and to the consumer so they don't have to spend $799 to get the driver that fits them). 2) There are OEMs selling "real deal" stuff. But for most oem offerings, there is a super premium version of that shaft from the manufacturer that you are not getting. A good example is MRC Kuro Kage, they put a KK "silver" in alot of OEM clubs, but there is also a $350 version of that shaft called KK ti-ni that uses exotic premium materials and performs differently. To me, Callaway isn't one of the worst in "duping" customers, I think they give enough info to know the shafts are different and they emphasize being fit into the right shaft. Taylormade/Cobra have pushed the limits of good taste in the past. I like Ping's approach of private labelling shafts from other manufacturers and working with the manufacturer to design the shaft around their head and performance goals. It's impossible for a customer to confuse a PING TFC80 shaft with a UST Recoil shaft (both made by UST but different), and the Ping TFC and really all of the private label stuff performs really well. I know alot of GREAT golfers fit into ping "made for" options above all else in the cart. I've even put pulled ping fairway and hybrid shafts into other MFG heads because I like em that much and they go for a song on eBay. I think Ping has it right.

Tom Wishon wrote about how all manufacturers have switched to using overseas foundries for their major product lines (including his custom fit components business). He discussed the quality being there from overseas foundries and the US foundries at the time not keeping up in quality, innovation, or price. I don't know if there are any foundries in the us making cast or forged iron heads, but there are a few Asian countries (not just China) that produce good parts. I think Cobra's MiM wedges are an exception, I believe those heads are produced here. I know there are boutique putter and wedge companies who mill heads from solid billet that are made here and not vastly more expensive than the Japanese forgings (Epon, Miura, etc). You'll never see it in a most wanted, but Bell Putters is a cool underdog/mom and pop type company that mills putters from billet in the US and sells at a price cheaper than cast putters imported from Asia by other brands.

I'm on the other side of it, I'm 6' but have a 6'4" wing span and 33" wrist to floor (ape arms). Depending on the MFG, that leaves me 1-2* flat and 0-.5" short. I hated a set of Cobras I bought (standard lie and length for Cobra) 5 years ago and when I went to a professional fitter for an equipment eval the lie board, and line test we're showing that the clubs worked. It wasn't until I took a lesson that my coach who I had worked with before was able to show me on video that the clubs worked because I had changed my swing to make them work (jumping before impact to create space and get the club steep). That jumping was killing my consistency leading to fats and thins. My point is, if you're a good ball striker you will be able to adjust your movement pattern around a 1/2in, maybe 1 in difference and the difference in lie that goes with it. You might not even know you're doing it, your body is just adjusting to the task. To the previous poster, yes, geometry doesn't lie, BUT, the static geometry of your wrist to floor measurement and height changes when you are in a dynamic movement. The golf swing is a dynamic movement. Remember, effectively what you are doing by adding length is making your 37" 64* (+2 lie) 7 iron length 7 iron into a 38" 64* (+3 lie to length) 5 iron length 7 iron. So if you go 1" longer, you will have to bend the lie 1 flat to maintain the same hand position at address. Adding an inch and not adjusting lie will put you in a more upright position with higher hands. Higher hands at address cues up added steepness in my swing, but your mileage may vary. Regarding the desire to be more upright - I was talking to a fitter/teacher who has a deal w Cobra selling 39" single length irons (+1.5"). He teaches a "rotational" swing from an upright position for those w low back pain/injury. I don't know if he adjusted the lies flat on those sets or not,but several of his students had a massive swing change immediately "click" from being in a new position w the new gear. Being professionally fit is great, but if something feels off, it's worth it to experiment. If I were you id go on eBay and buy a stray g2 head and a glue-in shaft extension. All-in cost should be well under a hundo and you will definitely learn something about your swing DNA that would not be exposed by a professional fitter who is trying to stay within the guard rails of a 1 hr session and "the swing you brought" that day. I think there's benefit to intellectually understanding how your swing works and how able you are as a golfer to adjust. Best of luck!

The idea of having lofts stamped makes alot of sense. At the end of the day, iron performance is about length, loft, and the construction of the head. Great posts about golfer ego, that is in my opinion what is driving buying behavior, which is ultimately steering more brands to keep the trend going. Its good because there is some innovation happening to make clubs that go a long way easier to hit consistently. With that said, because of all the innovation and the influence of marketing on the product itself, there is a wider range of variables in an off the shelf "7 iron" for example than ever before, and that's what I think is bad. It's my opinion that it's easier than ever now to buy a 5i-pw set off the rack that won't "work" for a given golfer, because a 5i isn't a 5i.