IONEPUTT

I was merely stating the fact that you and the OP both live in PA. and it might be a good idea for both of you to get together to solve his issues with his irons. To that I added my own personal experience with swing weighting irons that I learned from over 19 years of club building. Since YOU live in PA and the OP lives in PA. I think I directed my response to the correct person, unless you are not interested in helping out a fellow site member that lives near you? Hopefully the OP will see this post and decide if he wants to contact you for assistance.

Since you and the OP are both in PA. might be a good idea to set up a meeting and you two can work it out in person. That is what I would recommend for the OP at least. As for swing weight, I like to build up a set of irons so all the clubs are the same SW from longest to shortest. Adding lead weight in the hosel of the head will NOT hurt anything. Fact is all of Golfsmith and Wishon clubheads had a small weight port at the bottom of the hosel for this very purpose. Golfsmith even sold the weights that fit into this weight port for the purpose of adjusting the swing weight of any of their clubs. Great feature in a head that I rather wish other club makers would include into their head designs. With todays club with no port in the hosel, I just add a lead weight into the tip end of the shaft to adjust the swing weight to what I'm looking for. This said, I'd have to say you got screwed over by GOLFUSA when they re-shafted your irons. It would appear that the guy that assembled your clubs was a useless jerk. IF he could NOT build up your irons with the mid size grips you requested to the swing weigh you wanted, he should NOT be building clubs in the first place. It's not that hard If one knows what one is doing.

I watched that video with Ian and while he did hit the ZNE shaft wedge different than with the steel shaft, I did NOT see much if any improvement in his shots. Not straighter or better distance control. Just different not better. Not sure I saw a good reason to spend $180 on a wedge shaft for no improvement in performance. And I have 4 wedges in my bag now, so that would mean $720 for 4 shafts no including labor charges for those that don't do their own club work. So far I have not hit it enough in my 60* wedge to tell if it's any better than my steel shaft wedges. Time and more range time will be needed before I decide one way or another.

With 20 pages of posts on this, Would someone please tell me IF you have found any real gains with these OTTO Flex shaft testing? How much have you gained in terms of distance with the same or better accuracy? Was it worth the time and money in the end?

I just wasted 20 minutes of my life watching a video by a guy that maked at least 3 errors in the video. And he himself admits that his method of releasing the shaft when he did the photos of how the shaft bends after it is release caused the shaft to move to one side every time. This alone is a good reason why he got his false test results. I developed a way to release the shaft when I do a FLO alignment test that does NOT cause the shaft to move to one side and it's very simple to do, just something this guy was not smart enough to come up with but I did years ago. And never in this 20 minute video does he show the results of Sprine and FLO alignment of a shaft with a golf club. I have done this a numpber of times and I can tell you for a fact that sprine and Flo alignment DOES make a difference. If you watch the video you might also notice that he mentions SPINNING. Not Sprine. He doesn't even know the correct word to use for the process. He is also wrong when he states that the shaft only oscillates once during the golf swing. This is totally wrong. Fact is the shaft bends first as the golfer starts the back swing. Then it bends again at the top of the back swing and the downswing begins. And it bends once more just before the club head contacts the ball. So again this guy is wrong in his thinking. Pleas feel free to believe this guy or you can have a shaft Sprine and FLO aligned and see the difference with your own eyes. I have done real world tests that show just how much difference a properly sprine and FLO aligned shaft can have on the performance of a golf club. As an example, I had a driver that hit every ball with a big fat slice as it came from the factory, And after I did a sprine and FLO alignment on the factory shaft and re-installed it in the head the ball flight was perfectly straight every time. That driver went from a slice machine to a fairway finder with the factory shaft just by doing the sprine and FLO alignment work. I'll let you decide if that is worth it or not. I know my answer to that question. I also dis-agree with this guy about sprine finding to be a waste of time. I've been doing it for 20 years and it does work, If this guy doe not know how to do the job correctly that is his problem, not FACT. I fugured out how to do a proper sprine alignment years ago, too bad he didn't do the same before he posted this video filled with false claims.

That impact tape image looks a lot like what I got with a driver I had before I did a spine and FLO alignment on the shaft. After the alignment the impact pattern was about 1/4 of the size as it was before the alignment work was done. I'd be willing to bet that half of what you are seeing is due to the shaft, and half is you. Only way to know is to have the shaft either SST Pured or spine and FLO aligned and try the club again.

I have never felt a need to use anything on my irons or wedges to see impact. I can see where I hit the ball with my irons just by looking at the face of the club and see the ball dimple pattern on the face. No need for tape or wax for me at least. As for cleaning the wax out of grooves. I'd think you could do that pretty easily with a standard club cleaning brush you use to clean out the grass pieces that fill the grooves after a shot from the rough. Should work just find. Might want to try it a few times at the range to double check before you give it a go on the course to see IF you can notice any difference in ball flight or spin just to be safe. I started using car wax on my woods after I took a club making class and the instructor recommended applying a coast of wax on the clubs after they were finished to protect the paint on my new driver or fairway wood. Just seemed like a good idea to cost the face of the club as well on all new woods I assembled after that. For range use I just fill a small pill bottle with the wax and put the small container in my golf bag. My latest trick is to fill a used up Chapstick tube with the car wax and put the small tube in my pocket when I go to the range or course. It's so small I don't even notice I have it my my pocket when hitting balls so it's a great way to go.

I tried impact tape when I first started playing golf 21 years ago. Switched to impact wax a year later as it's easy to use, cheaper than either tape or foot spray and most of us have a can of it in the garage. Common name for this impact wax is Paste Car Wax. Just apply a thin layer on the face of your club and let it dry for a few seconds until it turns white and you are all set to go. I can hit dozens of balls with this wax and see exactly where the balls are bding hit on the face of my clubs. Easy to clean off with your golf towel when you are finished. Much cheaper than foot spray as well.

All golf balls do the same thing. Once they find their "Happy" place, they no longer move about and get nice and steady as they spin. With out the movement the spinner gets a lot quieter as well. Some balls are so out of balance, that they start to bounce around inside the little cage over the ball and if not for that cage they would bounce right off of the spinner. Those are NOT the balls you want to use on the course.

there has been two tests that I know of. One was on driving accuracy and the other on how straight golf balls roll when they are spin balanced. Both tests showed a noticeable improvement in performance. Straighter ball flight off the tee and the balls rolled straighter on the greens. My personal testing shows the same thing, both off the tee and when putting. Well worth the time it takes to spin up a box of golf balls from my experience.

you might want to try a different shaft, one designed just for a faireay wood, and not for a driver. All my woods have fairway wood shafts that weigh 85 grams and are made just for woods. You might want to try one and see if that helps.

Simple answer to your question is that I did NOT give up on fairway woods at all. Just the opposite in fact. I currently carry 4 fairway wood in my bag. 3-9. This gives me a nice 15 yard gap between all my clubs, from driver down to LW.

Retail price for those BGT shafts is $180 so 3 for 360 would be a good deal. Assuming they work for you enough better than the shafts you are using now. I have ONE on order and that's enough until I find out if they work better than what I'm using now. On the flip side of that, If they don't work any better than what I'm using now, than there is not good deal to be had. I'll know more when the shaft gets here and I can try it out at the range.

I have the 130 grams version on order. Like you I play steel shafts in all of my irons and wedges so 130 Grams is what I have now and 130 BGT would make the most sense to try.

As for which wedge would I install the BGT wedge shaft in, I'd try it in my 60* wedge as that is the wedge I use the most for all types of shots, Both appoach shots into the green and pitch shot when just off the greens to bunker shots from firm sand. Not sure if it would be an improvement or not, but it might be worth a try. Fact is I have one on the way to me as I type this. There factory sales rep contacted me about the new wedge shaft and I told her I would be interested in doing a test and review on their new wedge shaft, so now I have one on its way to me. I will do an in-depth test and post a review after it gets here and I have finished my testing. The BGT wedge shaftt only come in the .335 " tip diameter style, so I'll have to use an adapter when I install it in a .370" hosel head.

It's very easy to replace the shaft in your putter, but I would not do it as I saw ZERO improvement when I tested one of the BGT $200 shafts in one of my putters a few years ago. I had two Dart putters, exactly the same in every way, So I installed one of the BGTshafts in one and left the other one as stock, I then hit balls for about 3 hours on a local putting green, hit 10 foot, 20 foot and out to 50 feet, both up hill and down hill. I took photos of my results for later . When I was done and looked at all of the photos, I saw NO difference in either accuracy or distance control. Bottom line is that the $200 shaft did nothing at all to improve my test results. Putting is one of the strengths of my game, so maybe if I was a bad putter it might have helped, but for me it was a total waste of both my time and money. NOT saying the BGT shaft is no good, just saying it's not any better than a standard steel putter shaft that came in my Dart. IF you have not tried the Dart putter I would highly recommend you give one a try if you can find one today. Great putter that is very easy to align to your target and it gives me excellent results on both long and short putters every time. Best oem putter I have every tried, and I have tried hundreds of them over the years. Reason I have two of them is that after using a Dart in a putting contest as Golf Galaxy I liked the Dart so much that I purchased the one I used in the contest before I left the store, Only to learn two days later that I won the contest and they sent me a second Dart putter as my prize. Now I have two of them, one with the factory steel shaft and the other with the $200 BGT shaft installed.

I'm glad your elbows are doing ok now that you are playing graphite shafts in your irons. I'm also glad my tendonitis in my left elbow went away years ago. At $55 to $60 a shaft for those Steelfiber shafs it would cost quite a lot to re-shaft all my irons and wedges. I have been playing golf for 21 years now with no injuries of any kind, Knock on wood. so I'll stick with playing S flex steel shafts for now. I hate to think what it would cost if I had to have my clubs re-shafted and I didn't do the work myself.

You mentioned some Aldila Tour iron shafts, so I went to the Aldila website to look up the specs on those shafts, but there is no mention of them on the Aldila site. They have Tour shafts but only for woods or hybrids, None for irons . Not sure what this means but they don't seem to be selling them currently, Can you provide some info on those shafts?

I have a theory on why you can feel the difference in your hands buy not helping with your elbows. When I was looking for a good set of graphite shafts to use to build my wife a set of new irons, I looked at all the graphite shafts listed in my Golfsmith catalog about 18 years ago. I noticed three things about graphite shafts compared to steel. One was the weight, second was the price, and third was the torque rating for the graphite shafts. Most every shaft i found had a torque rating of between 5.0 and 6.5*. That was for L flex shafts. Steel shafts have a torque of between 1.9* and 2.2*. 2.2* being for the L flex shafts. So the graphite shafts have a much higher torque rating compated to the same flex steel shafts, In the case of L flex it was 2.2* for steel and over 5* for graphite. Since there are hundreds of golfers on half a dozen golf forums that say that low torque shaft just feel too harsh and how they much prefer higher torque shafts in their clubs, I can't help but wonder is what your elbow is feeling is how the steel shafts do NOT twist as much at impact and that is the reason your elbows hurt when you play steel shafts in your irons. NOT the vibrations so much as the twisting action of the cluhhead at impact being 2 or 3 times as much for steel shaft irons compared to graphite shaft irons. You mention that your hands can feel the difference but not your elbows. My own tests have shown that the inserts do reduce the vibrations by a big factor, so I have to think it might be the twisting of the club head that is hurting your elbows and not the vibrations. Does that make sense to anyone other than me?

sorry my error there. You did try them which is good to know. My mistake. But as many others here are prone to post, what works for you or in this case did NOT work for you doesn't mean it would not work for others. They didn't work for you, but they did work for me so who's to say if they would work for the rest of the golfers out there with elbow issues?

Have you actually tried using a set of irons with vibration absorming inserts your self or are you just repeating what you heard somewhere. Reason I ask is that I have done my own tests and the inserts I'm using do in fact work quite well. So I stand behine what I posted before, they work and they work well.

I would recommend you forget about getting new graphite shafts in your irons and just have vibration dampening insrts installed in the steel shafts you were fitted for. Much cheaper and they work better than graphite at reducing the vibrations you don't like and your joints can't stand. I've been installing them in shafts for my customers for years and have not had one complaint yet.

I take it that is your way of saying you don't believe me??? That's fine with me, but it was what the Trackman data was showing when I hit the Ping G400 Max driver with a low torque X flex shaft that was priced at $500 a stick. Believe what you like it doesn't matter to me one way or another.

You would NOT need a new shaft a few years later, and I never said you did or would. Going by your posts, I think that my experience with shafts is a lot different than yours. Unlike you, I find that I see the most improvement in driver performance by installing a properly aligned shaft than I do with changing the head. When I was having a driver fitting 2 years ago we used the then new Ping G400 Max head. I really liked the head as it was pretty easy to hit and with the right shaft I was hitting 80% of the fairways with it. My current driver at the time was about 15 years old, and a much less forgiving design, but with the high quality shaft i had in the head, I was hitting it just as far and hitting 75% of the fairways. The Ping G400 Max at the time was selling for around $500 or so, and the shaft I was fit for was another $500 plus the cost of the tip adapter plus labor if I wanted to have the fitter do the install. I just cound not see a good reason to spend over $1000 for a new driver and shaft combo to gain the small 5% more fairways hit. In the end, I decided to buy a two year old Callaway driver and I then was able to try a few high quality shafts for a lot less money. I ended up with an even better fit with the used driver and shaft combo and saved over $750. While my route to upgrading my driver may not be for everyone, I sure works for me and my back account is a lot bigger as well.

I like your plan of action on this cnosil, You demo some clubs, then if you find one you want to buy, you wait until they go on sale or you find a used one. Great way to get what you want and save money in the process. You mentioned that a "new shaft", is NOT a new driver, Quite true, But if you look at the title of this thread you will notice it is called "Upgrading" your driver, NOT buying a new one. I did that for a reason, and it was so replacing the current shaft in a driver could fit into the discussion. Of the 3 options, I lean toward getting a new shaft IF you have a good driver head that was made in the last 4 or 5 years to work with. Most all new drivers today have adjustable hosel designs, so changing the shaft is as easy as un-screwing the old shaft and installing a new owe. There are two good reasons I do "not" buy new drivers, One is the price they want for them these days, I'm just not paying out $500 to $600 for a new driver that is at best 1 or 2 percent better than what I have. The USGA put a limit on how HOT the face of a club can be, so the fact is that all drivers built in the last 20 or so years can NOT be built any hotter so ball speed for a given club head speed is NOT going to go up, It can't and still be a conforming driver. The small improvement in driver perfromance is only in how forgiving the club might be for off center hits. And if I may, I'd like to point out something I read in an e-mail I got from MGS about how the shafts that come in todays high dollar driver are "not" one of those $250to $350 shafts the shaft companies are selling today. They are in fact rather cheap low end quality shafts that the factory gets from the "lowest" bidder. From my point of view, when a golfer buys a new $500-$600 driver, they are getting a new head with a cheap shaft that is not all that great. My experience from building clubs for almost 20 years is that a golfer would be much better off to spend the money on a good high quality shaft and keep the head they have. Especially when a good quality shaft can be purchased for well under $100.