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Everything posted by Hecaviator

  1. Hector Friday Harbor, WA At 75, I walk all rounds (100+ in 2020). Normally carry, but use a hand cart in the winter due to bad course conditions. Sun Mountain three-wheel
  2. Yeah. Asking which one a person might spring for without knowing the price is really a silly question.
  3. Hector, Friday Harbor, WA Right-handed First choice: 18* hybrid with ES 75 F3 regular shaft Second choice: 3 wood with regular shaft. Currently play a 21* Titleist TS3 hybrid and would like to compare it to the Hogan, and hopefully fill a hole in my bag between the driver and the TS3. I have taken my old Taylormade 3 wood out of the bag. I use Shot Scope and will put a tag on the Hogan hybrid (or 3 wood) to verify performance. 14.2 handicap as of today Thanks for the opportunity to apply for this test
  4. Hector Friday Harbor, WA Cobra F9 Speedback 14.2 100 (+/-) TSi 3 NOTE: I am gaming a TS3 21 degree hybrid and just ordered a TS3 25 degree hybrid. Putting a TSi 3 driver in the bag would complement those hybrids. I actively use Shot Scope V3 to track my rounds, and would install an additional tag on the TSi driver to provide a Shot Scope comparison with the Cobra driver.
  5. Hector Handicap 13.0 Current wedges: Titleist Vokey SM6 50 and 56 degree, and Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal set wedges pitching (44 degree) and gap (50 degree). The 50 degree Hot Metal gap wedge is about 10 yards longer than the Vokey 50 degree and the Hot Metal 44 degree pitching wedge is about 12 yards longer than the gap wedge. What appeals to me about raw wedges: wondering if they might improve my spin to better stop shots on the greens. I'll install Shot Scope tags on the raw wedges to gain accurate data. Have played 55 rounds since April 1 this year - I'll give the raw wedges a real workout.
  6. Just FWIW. Over the past 50 years I have competed in two sports that use handicapping in an attempt to level the playing fields: 1) golf; 2) sailing. I used to race sailboats 80 to 100 days a year. Now I play 80 to 100 rounds of golf a year. I have deep respect for those who have invested enormous amounts of time and thought in formulating handicapping systems in the effort to level out competition. That said, I realized long ago that both sailing and golf handicapping are fundamentally flawed, mainly because of two factors: 1) the variability that exists among the parameters employed in the mathematically formulae handicapping involves; and, 2) flaws in the calculations. Within these categories, there are numerous factors in play - many of which are inherently dynamic. These factors introduce opportunities to improve both sailing and golf handicapping, but achieving improvements would demand so much effort that the payoff for doing it isn't there in the subjective sense that most humans employ. Most people simply wouldn't feel the "payoff" is worth the "effort required". Good enough, it seems, is actually good enough for most of us most of the time. Course rating just happens to be one of the greatest variables: from state to state, region to region, and country to country. From my observation over many years, playing golf across the USA and a bit internationally, course rating is the biggest variable factors of all. Consider that my handicap in New Zealand is nearly 7 strokes higher than my handicap here in the States. I'm convinced it is because the approaches to course rating are so different. But that is another aspect that we don't need to divert to in this discussion. Frankly, because I have observed the limitations of both sailing and golf handicapping for many years, I don't hold much hope for meaningful improvements in either. They are both "good enough", even though neither is truly great. We could spend thousands of hours talking about the strengths and weaknesses of handicapping in both sports and how to fix the flaws. If we did, we almost certainly wouldn't arrive at any major improvements or viable solutions to the basic flaws, but would have enjoyed a lot of beer and good company. Maybe that is the greatest value of handicapping. If one wanted to invest the time and effort, what tracks might be followed that hold the greatest promise. I my estimation data is the key. We have vastly more of it today and (thanks to computers) we have vastly more capability to pose hypotheses and qualitatively assess the influence of various factors. That is what "Money Ball" was all about, and statistical metrics continue to blossom in sport, business, and many other endeavors because some people see an opportunity to make it pay off economically. So, I will continue to play golf knowing that the handicap measure of my potential (not my performance on a given day) is what will be used to compare me with other golfers. I will also recognize and accept its imperfections. When I was actively sailing, I had an alternative available: one-design sailing. That is what I chose to do most of the time, though I also sailing in handicapped events many times. In one-design competition, unlike handicap racing, there is no mathematical adjustment applied to correct for variabilities among hull shape, weight, sails, and even underwater appendages like folding or fixed blade props. By invoking strict physical design specifications and limitations on straying from them, everything is oriented to reducing the variables as much as possible. So, in theory (and almost in fact), it is the skills of the crew that determine who wins and loses one-design sailing races. It generally proves out. In one-design sailboat classes, in local fleets as well as at national-level competition, the same small group of individuals or crews usually win. They win most often because they are better than the other competitors. Every once in a while, someone who is usually in the middle of the fleet will break through, but if you hold enough individual races in a regatta (typically five to sever), the cream rises to the crop almost every time. That is demonstrated by the fact that the truly great sailors can move into a different one-design class than they usually sail in and compete right at the top immediately. They are extraordinary sailors. I've never done anything in my life as intensely competitive as one-design sailboat racing, and that includes very active participation in several sports in high school, in football in college, and in the competition of business. Nothing even comes close to high level one-design sailing competition. Imagine playing chess against a grand master while competing at the upper levels of a marathon or triathlon. You have two or three 1.5 to 2 hour long races in a single day where, if you lose focus or don't max out your physical effort for even a second, you fall behind and probably lose because someone else is maintaining their focus and effort at that level. Maybe that is why I am now golfing instead of competitively sailing <grin>. I suggest we accept golf handicaps for what they are, with all their warts and inequities. At the end of the round, does it really matter if we are buying the beer or the other guy is?
  7. Following up on Tony's, Harry's, and Chris' speculation in the latest No Putts Given (Episode 54?) in response to a couple tweets from the corpse of Adams Golf, what bizarre predictions or fake news can we gin up. I'm thinking that we will soon see Adam's Kirkland Signature irons and hybrids on the aisles of our favorite superbox store, probably strategically displayed somewhere between the alcohol and camping tents. Costco is already in the business with balls, gloves, putters, and (i have heard but not seen) wedges. What easier way to buy credibility in the golf equipment market could there be than bringing Adams back from the crypt that Taylormade cast it into?
  8. This may not help you much, but it depends heavily on the weather on the given day and what kind of game you play. If you play the ball in the air and it the wind isn't blowing, I would suggest you will enjoy Bandon Dunes or Pacific Dunes most. Much of Bandon Trails is more sheltered from the coastal winds by the trees, but it is my least favorite Bandon course. If you play the ball on the ground, don't miss Old MacDonald. I suspect the Sheep Ranch will be similar to it, but it is new and I haven't played it. If you have a chance, also play the Sandpines course up in Florence and/or Bandon Crossings south of town. Both allow carts, so If you are worn out from walking Bandon, they are a good break.
  9. I definitely vary my tips based on the quality of the experience the caddie provides. My experience at Bandon is dated at this point, but we are planning to correct that error next February. The caddies at Bandon are pros, and expect to be compensated appropriately. BUT, there is definitely a range in terms of the quality of service they offer, and sometimes they just have an off day. Some see an old guy and seem to figure this is just bag haul. Be very clear about what you want from them. I'm not usually assertive enough, so I have to bear some of the blame for less stellar days. One day at Bandon I had a guy who thought he should be reading every putt for me. He was really into the line, but didn't have anything to say about pace. I can see the lines, but pace is more subtle there than most places I've played because of the undulations and length of putts you get. Of course, I have played there only in the winter, and I suspect the pace is more consistent in the summer. I finally told him I could see the line and he didn't give me anything on the greens after that, even though I asked. The other thing he wasn't very helpful with were carry distances for fairway bunkers, which is critical at Bandon. There are a lot more fairway bunkers just waiting to suck your ball in than anywhere else I have played. I know my carry distances with my clubs if I hit them right. He couldn't tell me the carry distances. He'd just say "It's a six iron". That wasn't a very good day, and he got tipped accordingly. It probably pissed him off. I should have told the folks in the shop why I tipped him as I did, but didn't want to cause problems. The next day I asked for a different caddie, and this guy gave me shot lines and distances without having to request them. He also was very good reading the undulations and pace of the greens. Within three holes we were totally synched up. It was a great day. I was probably overly generous, but it was such a contrast from the previous day. I think I tipped him $60 or $70, but that was over10 years ago. FWIW, the son of a neighbor caddied for me at Chambers Bay and was head and shoulders above any caddie I have had at Bandon. But then we had played together and he knew my personality as well as my golf game. He probably saved me 6 to 8 shots each time he caddied for me.
  10. Friday Harbor, WA Most interested in testing the sports creme. I currently use a different brand of CBD sports creme as a topical for relief from the pain of gout flareups and it works well. I haven't used it in association with golf. I'd like to compare the Kanibi with that brand. I would also consider the other Kanibi products, especially the tinctures or gummies. I tend to be focused and play quickly. I've been working hard on my mental and physical control during the rounds in an effort to eliminate rushed decisions and get my 14 handicap down to single digits (I'm 75, so it is a challenge). I'm slowing everything down to a more consistent pace without rushing my walking or sequence of play. My wife and I, and the other playing partners that I typically play with, walk 18 holes in 3.5 hours or less if slower players aren't in front of us, so there are a lot of 7am tee times. I don't use a fitness tracker.
  11. Hector / Friday Harbor, WA Current GHIN 14.9 Mizuno JPX919 Hot Metal Shot Scope member - will acquire new tags for the Wilson irons and use for accurate comparison to current irons.
  12. 14.5 Handicap, Western Washington Playing Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metals (5 / GW), 8 iron distance 138 yard carry. All I know about Sub70s is what I read on MyGolfSpy Playing 4 to 5 days a week on a variety of courses, mostly north of Seattle. Have just put a Shot Scope V3 in play, and will acquire a second set of tags for the Sub70's so I can provide detailed data comparing them with the Mizunos. Also have a set of Hogan Ft. Worth Blacks that I play January through March, 8 iron distance 144 yard carry. I would love to test the Sub70's against the Hogans as both are marketed through DTC consumer models.
  13. Hey Kyler; I have been through the transition in both directions. I started in the early '60's with Wilson Staff woods and irons. They were so much better than my game could live up to that it is a miracle I hit anything. After a layoff for 25 years, I started playing again. I don't remember what I bought, but they weren't anything notable. After a few years I decided that if I couldn't golf well I might as well look good. So I bought TaylorMade Supersteel Bubble shaft irons and some Ping woods. I still have them. They are still better clubs than I am a golfer. Then I started buying "up" in terms of irons. Went with Ping S55's, then Wilsons. Tried Nickents and some others. But I couldn't hit them as well as the Supersteels, so I backtracked for a few years. Then, on a trip to Bandon, my golf buddy and I were on the range. He was hitting his new Cleveland super game improvement irons. I think the model was something like HLI - in any case they were the ones prior to the HB3's.I knew his game well and couldn't believe how well he was hitting them. So I tried his on the range and bought a set the next week. Since then I have bought two more sets of the Cleveland HB3's. They are extremely forgiving, high trajectory, and long. You just have to get over how ugly they are in the bag. The sets of Cleveland irons are sitting in: 1) the garage; 2) the storage locker; and, 3) New Zealand, where we spend our winters. I still revert to them when my swing goes in the gurgler - which means they may get played soon. Last fall I decided to buy myself one more really nice set of irons before I croak - so I got fit and ended up with Mizuno Hot Metals. Then, in December I had a chance to buy a set of Hogan Ft. Worth Blacks really cheap and did so. I took them to New Zealand, intending to sell them after playing a few rounds and make a buck. I played them for two months there and quit thinking about selling them. They (and one set of HB3's) are sitting in our landlord's basement until we can return once Covid-19 has ceased. I played those Clevelands three rounds this winter (New Zealand summer) and still love them. But the Hogans are really special. They are traditionally lofted (34 degree 7 iron) but consistent as a clock and longer than the Mizunos, which are known to be hot clubs. Sorry to be so long-winded, but my conclusion is that you ought to give some of the new irons that are one or two tiers above super game improvement another look, especially the Hogans. You may be surprised how forgiving they are. Which Hogans are you playing? Maybe stepping back to the Edge irons will get you to a comfortable feel. But, if you are dead set on moving to super game improvement irons, give the new Cleveland HB Turbos a look. Like the Cleveland sets I have kept forever, they are ugly as a bulldog. But they are by far the easiest irons to hit I have ever had. I still carry the HB 3 3-iron and use it as a hybrid with the Hot Metals, slotting it between the 5 iron and my new Titleist TS3 hybrid. That old Cleveland 3 iron is my "go to" when I need 180 yards carry into a green. Because it flies so high, I can actually stop it on the greens. Good hunting. Hector
  14. Thanks Jaskanski; I wasn't aware that Trakman had such a chart. As far as carry distance, it seems pretty consistent with estimating swing speed by dividing your carry distance by 2.3, which Nic mentioned. However, as I look at the Trakman chart I have to wonder what sort of course assumptions they have programmed in. The differences between the carry distances and the total distances on the chart just seem, shall we say, highly optimistic. I fairly consistently hit between 215 and 225 carry with a slight draw and medium to medium-high trajectory. Based on that, using Nic's correlation value, I figure my swing speed must be on the order of 95mph. Fine so far. But I sure don't see total distances of 247 to 276 yards. 46 to 53 yards of roll just doesn't match the reality I see on the course. FWIW, our course is getting increasingly firm as summer advances, but if I get a 20 yard to 25 yard roll I'm pretty pleased. Maybe my spin rate is higher than what the Trakman program employs, reducing the roll out. But it sure doesn't show up in my shot shape.
  15. Hector Cyre - Friday Harbor, WA I have been using gps-based yardage aids for many years. Presently have and use a Bushnell watch/gps. It is my primary yardage reference at this point. I just ordered a Shot Scope, and will be starting with it in a week or so. I would be happy to use both the Sky Caddie and the Shot Scope each round and compare them as part of the test. If you wish, I would also continue to use the Bushnell and cover that in the test as well.
  16. Thanks Nic. That translates to just a tick over 95 mph for a 220 yard carry distance. Probably pretty close, if a bit crushing personally. I guess I'd better get the Speed Sticks out and get serious about their training protocol.
  17. We sometimes hear reference to swing speed as a metric for selecting a shaft or (as in the latest NoPuttsGiven video #44) a driver. But for those of us who don't reliably know what our swing speed is with our driver, or any other club for that matter, IS THERE A TABLE SOMEWHERE THAT CORRELATES DRIVER DISTANCE AND SWING SPEED? Even if we don't know our swing speed, most of us know or can easily determine our average driver carry distance. I'm not talking the longest drive we've hit this year and I'm not taking into consideration roll (total distance), just the carry distance. When the trajectory and ball flight characteristics are relatively conventional, not hooking hard or a big banana fade, that carry distance should correlate to some degree with the average swing speed, right? I suspect it correlates pretty well, allowing somewhat for equipment and smash factor (efficiency) differences. So, with reference to the "best" drivers based on swing speed that were mentioned on NPG#44, as a guy who is hitting his average drive (carry distance) 220 yards, do I fit in the slow swing speed category (less than 95 mph), the middle swing speed range (95 - 105), or the high swing speed range (over 105). AND IF THERE ISN'T A READILY AVAILABLE REFERENCE TABLE WE CAN LOOK AT, SHOULDN'T MY GOLF SPY DO US A FAVOR AND DEVELOP ONE AND PUT IT ON THE WEBSITE?
  18. I love doing things: golf; sailing; skiing; fly fishing; hiking; biking; flying. My name is Hector. I'm an aviator. Made sense to me at the time. My other email address is HecMariner.
  19. The data is in. A couple weeks ago, five days on a 152 km bicycle tour - gained 6 lbs. Last two days, sitting around the house on my butt in self isolation - lost 3 lbs. Uh, we ate pretty good on the bike trail, but.... Back on the stationary bike tomorrow. Don't want to waste away.
  20. We are self-isolated for at least 30 days. Just got back from New Zealand (our winter/their summer) on Sunday, where we had self isolated the last 10 days after a bike tour on the South Island. That adventure required four flight legs. Then we flew a non-stop from Auckland to Vancouver and drove home. We don't want to be a risk to our friends and neighbors, so are staying at the house. Our club's course is closed. So I grabbed the shag bag and a couple clubs and headed for the yard. Wife asked "Where are you going?" I replied, "I'm going to practice chipping.". Wife, "No you're not. I've seen you chip." That's so cold.
  21. All due respect, I feel it is WAY too early to even initiate this discussion. MyGolfSpy has a social responsibility to its members to error on the side of caution. Even suggesting undertaking major tournaments before we know confidently that we have some semblance of control of the Covid-19 virus is not the right thing to do. Not even as a "I wish". The situation is much too dynamic to plan for holding such large, complex events that could attract thousands of people. We truly don't know what we are dealing with yet. All the data indicates, and responsible health professionals are recommending, that we nationally need to institute isolation and protective practices immediately to keep the death toll as low as 100,000 Americans. Once we understand better what the future holds, we can start to discuss the scheduling of tournaments, majors or not. Golf is a game. Protecting people, sometimes from themselves, isn't. Sorry to be strident about this, but MGS is way off base on this one.
  22. Oh My Goodness..... Hector, Washington State HI 16.9 Two sets in play: 1) Mizuno JPX919 Hot Metals; 2) Ben Hogan Ft. Worth Blacks 1) Mizunos, 155 to 158 yards; 2) Ben Hogans, 158 to 162 yards
  23. Uh, that's it? This one needs some work folks. It isn't up to the usual MSG standards. I've seen video clips of Chris when he really gets into it, and he is much more engaged and really interesting to listen to. Much more than he was in this question/answer session. This wasn't close to his best or yours. Maybe you had a different objective than what I was expecting when I read the introduction. Maybe this feature needs to transition to a video interview. Could you start with a Skype connection like you use with Tony for No Putts Given? Anyway, YES I am interested in learning more about the people in the business, but this isn't the ticket. Folks I want to hear more from in the future? Dave Pelz on effective practice. Ben Crenshaw on design. Kim Braly on shaft evolution. And a dozen more I won't bore you with. With regard to the last question to Chris about growing the game. We all know that young people have to get into golf or it will slowly die. Last summer I think I saw the future that will save golf. It will engage youngsters, but it will also change the game. It was in Campbell River, B.C., Canada of all places. A guy who made a bazillion dollars (Canadian dollars, but still a bazillion) came home to Campbell River, bought an old course, and started pouring large buckets of money in. He shut it down for a year and totally rebuilt the course. He has a four or five story hotel underway on an adjacent property. He also built a new "clubhouse", that isn't really a clubhouse so much as an extensive entertainment/recreation center fronting onto the driving range. He included a small pro shop to put people on the course, a very good restaurant in a "bar food" sense that also has stuff kids love, and about eight hitting bays hitting into the driving range that are state of the art equipped with high end launch monitor systems and large displays. They have comfortable seating for about six to eight people, and remind me of old-time bowling alleys where everyone had a beer and was really engaged socially. In fact the atmosphere was much like the bowling alleys I remember as a youngster. Everything was first class. The driving range, the restaurant, the fixtures, the simulator set ups, the rental equipment, the staff. When we drove into the parking lot initially a "greeter" was out there to welcome us, help us get our clubs out of the car, and answer questions about the course and facilities. And this person really KNEW golf. It was so out of the norm that it was almost unsettling. We were there on a Thursday and stayed for about six hours to watch the U.S. Open on TV in the restaurant. We ended up stuffing our faces with a LOT of good food and a few beers. The facility was incredible. Every single hitting bay was busy every single minute we were there - mid week, middle of the day. There were a lot of families, including a LOT of kids. They were so excited about the golf, it was infectious. We were hearing things like "When I get to play on a real golf course, I'm going to..." It was like nothing I've ever seen on at a golf course before. The hitting bays fronting on the driving range are even heated and sheltered so they will be comfortable in the winter. It was sort of a high class, mini Top Golf carried to the extreme in a small town in British Columbia. I had a chance to talk to the owner at length. He was very busy with this gigantic project he has going, but he took the time to talk to me - a visitor who was just having lunch and watching his big-screen TVs for free. (We did end up playing two rounds of golf there that week. The course was immaculately conditioned, though not the sternest test even in Campbell River) He was totally enthusiastic and very transparent about his project and business model. I commented about all the families that were there. No accident, he told me - his pricing actually allows a family to come in for a couple hours for less than the cost of taking the kids to the movies (not counting all the food and drinks they consume). His marketing approach was very impressive, with special birthday party sessions available, etc. His idea was that this is an entertainment center, focused on golf. He was busy setting up leagues for the winter months, which in Campbell River B.C. are real winter. THAT IS THE SORT OF THING THAT WILL GROW THE GAME - MAYBE EVEN SAVE IT. I know this is way too long a post, but I had to share this with someone who really cares about the game.
  24. Hey Lefty. I am about a 17, going higher I fear. Whatever you choose to do, I strongly recommend getting properly fit for your new clubs. A good fitter can dial you in pretty nicely, especially in terms of the combination of heads and shafts. I had never been properly fit for irons until last September, when I bought a set of Mizuno JPX919 Hot Metals after extensive testing over several months. I have found that I can hit them fairly well, and that the KBS C-taper LIte shaft worked for me. Then, in December I had a chance to buy a barely used set of Hogan Ft. Worth Blacks with UST/Mamiya Recoil graphite shafts (F3) at a great price and jumped at it. We winter in New Zealand so I brought them down here and have been playing them two or three times a week. I have been pleasantly surprised at how forgiving they are given that they are pretty "bladey". They are traditionally lofted (7 iron is 34 degrees) versus the Hot Metals which are jacked (7 iron is 30 degrees). Yet the Hogans are, if anything, a bit longer club for club. I will be leaving the Hogans here and switching back to the Mizunos when we return home in April. Bottom line, I think you should invest the time necessary to find a club (and shaft) that are best suited to you. For me both Mizuno and Hogan are a big step up. Both companies make quality products. When I spoke with Hogan during my initial search for new irons, they recommended the Edge model so that might also be the best bet for you as a 20 HI. But my experience with the Ft. Worth Blacks has been a pleasant surprise. FWIW, I like the technology of the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer for narrowing the choice of shafts, but I insisted that we do five sets of three swings with the MSO. I have professionally worked with data for 45 years and wasn't ready to accept that one set of three swings was sufficient, especially given the inherent inconsistency of my swing. The KBS shafts showed up as the preferred option in three of the five sets of three swings, so that is what I went with. The UST/Mamiya shafts were a shot in the dark that happened to work out. Both the KBS and UST shafts are "regular" flex, for whatever that is worth.
  25. A few ideas for you to consider. Do 1) and 2) below BEFORE you test any clubs. But above all GET FITTED! 1) Get a solid baseline on a sim with your current clubs. DO NOT settle for getting data only on one club (6 or 7 iron). Go through the entire bag. You may have to baseline on one day, examine the data carefully, and return on another day to test clubs. Fatigue is a risk if you hit enough to get a solid baseline on your entire current bag. 2) Do at least three to five 3-swing sessions with Mizuno's Shaft Optimizer 3D. Don't let the fitter just have you swing the MSO 3D three times. Most people's swings are not consistent enough to use the data from just 3 swings to narrow the field of shafts and select the best for you. In my case, five 3-swing sessions with the MSO 3D identified the same shaft (KBS C-taper Lite, regular flex) as most suited to my swing in three of the five sets, and it was second in two others. Obviously, that shaftt is suited to my swing. Get all the data details from the Optimizer, not just the recommended shaft. You may find that your current clubs are just fine, but your shafts aren't suited to your swing. Or, after testing through step 5) below, you may find that just putting new shafts and grips on your existing clubs is much less expensive than a new set of irons. Then you can spend the money left over on lessons, which might help more than new clubs. 3) When you get into testing irons, plan to swing at least five models of clubs, more if the fitter is willing. And swing them with more than one shaft if the MSO 3D has not identified a clear "best" option for you. At a minimum, hit the 5 iron, the 7 iron, and the pitching wedge. If the fitter insists just hitting the 7 iron is enough, find another fitter. Go through the whole set if you can, whether with the fitter or on your own using the sim. At a minimum, you will learn a LOT about your swing. 4) Try to fit hybrids into the set during the iron fitting, most likely in the 3 iron or 4 iron role. Test shafts with the hybrids, starting with the one identified with the MSO 3D. But be open to trying others as well. If you select a hybrid with an adjustable hosel and weights, experiment with adjustments. I found that the hybrid tended to hook. We dialed the loft down to the max available, which flattened the lie, and then set the weights heavy at the heel of the club. Bingo, straight as could be and better spin rates. 5) Consider a blended set of irons, e.g., Hot Metals and Hot Metal Pros or JPX 919 Forged. Or even try the MP20 HMB irons for the longest iron(s) in your bag, gapped to work with your irons and hybrid. 6) If a fitter doesn't have the patience to go through this with you, ask to work with someone who does or simply walk away. It's your money.
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