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Tony Covey MGS

*UPDATE* - 2015 Most Wanted Driver Test

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From the original post dated 2-6-2015

As we have seen in year's past, adjustability offers a tremendous advantage.  We generally think (and fit) in terms of face angle rather than loft, but we're also seeing benefits from being able to move weight around. Where we've had different stock shafts to choose from, as you might image, we're often able to improve results. Quite frankly - arguments against adjustability border on delusional at this point.

 

I'm going to have to disagree. In this case I'll let my friend Tom Wishon explain adjustability. I don't think Tom is delusional. He probably has forgotten more about golf clubs and club design than anyone here on this site thinks they know. Take a look at Tom's video and then you can decide for yourself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj5KOk2oXU0

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From the original post dated 2-6-2015

As we have seen in year's past, adjustability offers a tremendous advantage.  We generally think (and fit) in terms of face angle rather than loft, but we're also seeing benefits from being able to move weight around. Where we've had different stock shafts to choose from, as you might image, we're often able to improve results. Quite frankly - arguments against adjustability border on delusional at this point.

 

I'm going to have to disagree. In this case I'll let my friend Tom Wishon explain adjustability. I don't think Tom is delusional. He probably has forgotten more about golf clubs and club design than anyone here on this site thinks they know. Take a look at Tom's video and then you can decide for yourself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj5KOk2oXU0

I'm NOT going to disagree with Tom Wishon, but I suspect for those who don't take advantage of getting a custom fit, the adjustability offers them a "poor man's version" of fitting their driver after purchasing it "off the shelf."

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From the original post dated 2-6-2015

As we have seen in year's past, adjustability offers a tremendous advantage.  We generally think (and fit) in terms of face angle rather than loft, but we're also seeing benefits from being able to move weight around. Where we've had different stock shafts to choose from, as you might image, we're often able to improve results. Quite frankly - arguments against adjustability border on delusional at this point.

 

I'm going to have to disagree. In this case I'll let my friend Tom Wishon explain adjustability. I don't think Tom is delusional. He probably has forgotten more about golf clubs and club design than anyone here on this site thinks they know. Take a look at Tom's video and then you can decide for yourself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj5KOk2oXU0

 

Two issues with your post. The first is you're over-simplifying what Tom says. Actually a part in the video says something along the lines that you'll never be able to effectively fit lie, loft, and face angle for anyone other than a dead square driver using hosel adjustability. Tom is absolutely correct about that, but that's a long way away from saying adjustability does nothing, or adjustability doesn't work. 

 

Certainly manufacturers leave out some of the nuances, but again...also isn't the same as a claim that the technology has no benefit.

 

The second issue is that Tom is applying a static measurement (the green machine) to a dynamic force. In reality, if I take a Tour Edge E8 for example (nominal loft is +/-10°, I believe) and set it to 12°, the overwhelming majority of golfers are going to hit that club higher. This is simply not something that can reasonable be opened to debate. It is repeatable.

 

What is often hidden in that is that face angle and loft are tied together, and so what also happens is that the majority of golfers will start the ball farther to the left (because that's where the face is generally pointing) than they would in the nominal position. This too can't be reasonably argued against.

 

You have systems like Callaway and Titleist (and some of the others as well) that also factor factor in neutral, upright, and fade settings...this is akin to bending an iron upright or flat. It too impacts ball flight, and this too is difficult to argue against.

 

The greater point is that one thing always affects the other. So whenever possible we use adjustability primarily for face angle as it gives us the best chance to help the golfer start the ball on the right line. We seldom adjustability with loft in mind, and only when the golfer would benefit from, for example, a closed face AND slightly more loft.

 

Where we run into trouble is when the consequence of loft exceeds what the golfer is comfortable with. At 12° the face is too shut, for example. When that happens we seldom get good results. I will say that Cobra's smartpad does actually seem to mitigate this to an extent (for those that sole the club), but it remains an issue regardless.

 

So with all of that said, my preference is for those narrower systems (TaylorMade, PING, Callaway), that offer a fairly modest range of adjustability that allows me to make small face angle tweaks without dramatically altering launch and spin...and again, we try to limit those changes to situations where the golfer would benefit from both the loft and face angle change, not one or the other.

 

The most reputable fitters I know leverage adjustability every day. They swear by it. And quite frankly, the majority of those who argue against it are the ones who don't offer it...and more often than not, the root of that is found in cost, and cost alone.

 

This is actually pretty simple. Take an adjustable driver...find a launch monitor and play around with different settings. I promise you the results at one end will be very different than your results at the other. And so quite simply, if you have the opportunity to alter the numbers with one club and you don't have that opportunity with the other, failing epoxy, a bending machine, and in some cases hot melt, the 2nd club is more limited from a fitting perspective.

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We describe it as a dynamic fitting process. Basically we have a good idea where the starting point for each golfer should be. As an example, For a guy who plays a 10.5 degree head with what you might call a mid/mid CG head, we can assume that he'll likely need to step up to 12° in a Tour Edge E8 beta, and there's at least a chance we'll need to drop him down to 10° in a G30 or other true low/back designs.

 

Where multiple shafts are available, we do make initial assumptions as well based on past history. Essentially, we can, to a degree, take what we learned about shaft performance in one head and use it to help us establish a starting point for another.

 

That's where we start and we tweak as we go.

Okay, I just wasn't sure if you set it and forget it or if you made adjustments trying to optimize based on stock options you had available or not. I'm sticking with my predictions now that I know that. Everyone I've talked to about the flex said after you finally dial it in, even if you have to go completely opposite of what you think it's a bomb dropper

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So distance results are out, will callaway stop bitching now? Will TM go all anti MGS and who on earth are Royal Collection?

 

Questions to be answered going forward.

 

Looking forward to accuracy data tomorrow.

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1. I still dislike Callaway.

2. TM might get upset. Nike might also get upset.

3. Never heard of Royal Collection until today.

4. Happy that the JPX 850 came in 6th.

5. Surprised that the Nike Vapor Pro finished dead last.

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Is there a link for the results?

 

IIRC Royal Collection entered the US Market under the brand name Sonartec probably late 90's to early 2000's. They had some sweet fairway woods and Todd Hamilton made their MD hybrid famous when he was chipping all over Royal Troon with it in his 04 Open victory. I don't remember when Sonartec fizzled out or what happened, but RC has always produced high quality and high price tags stuff overseas.

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Is there a link for the results?

 

IIRC Royal Collection entered the US Market under the brand name Sonartec probably late 90's to early 2000's. They had some sweet fairway woods and Todd Hamilton made their MD hybrid famous when he was chipping all over Royal Troon with it in his 04 Open victory. I don't remember when Sonartec fizzled out or what happened, but RC has always produced high quality and high price tags stuff overseas.

 

 

This.

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Here's the direct link to today's Distance results: http://www.mygolfspy.com/2015-most-wanted-driver-distance-awards/

 

And yes, Royal Collection is very much the evolution of the Sonartec line. It was a late (the last) entry in our test and was very much a pleasant surprise.

 

Word of warning...it's loud as hell.

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Under 100mph doesn't quite cut it for me.  Guess I need to turn back the clock or gain some speed!!

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Here's the direct link to today's Distance results: http://www.mygolfspy.com/2015-most-wanted-driver-distance-awards/

 

And yes, Royal Collection is very much the evolution of the Sonartec line. It was a late (the last) entry in our test and was very much a pleasant surprise.

 

Word of warning...it's loud as hell.

I can always take out my hearing aids, if it's THAT loud - lol

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Some observations of an incredibly thorough test...

 

1. Like most, absolutely shocked at the Vapor Pro, and nearly as shocked by the Vapor Speed.  15 yards is a lot...

 

2. To me, anything within 4 yards of the top is more or less a tie -- 12 feet, give or take.  As Tony says, it could mean the difference between an 8 iron or a 7 iron on approach.  But if the difference in stock to stock is that minimal, for my money the heads are a toss-up and it comes down to fitting and set up.  Anything from the Mizuno JPX-850 on up in the high swing speed category would be in play.

 

3. That said, not surprised at all about the Cally Double Black Diamond -- longest stock driver I've tried at various simulators.

 

4. Slow Swing Speed results are fascinating. Would have thought the D200 would have fared better here, being as light as it is. But I'm guessing the negative AoA and higher spin (maybe that last 200 or so RPM does matter?) affected performance.  But again, we're talking 6 yards difference -- or 18 feet.  Seems as thought the lighter head/shaft combo did make a difference in the High SS category though.  

 

5. Vapor Flex #3 in that category? Totally flummoxed - but lower spin must have have helped since it had the steepest AoA?

 

6. On the must hit list: Anything from Tour Edge - they need some consideration, the FlyZ+ - haven't tried that one at all, the JPX-850 and somehow, someway, a Royal Collection.

 

Can't wait for the accuracy findings.  This is getting interesting....

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