Would you consider this a hard or smooth transition

[shailey]

Thinking of trying something different. I have included screen shots of the metrics on this 5 iron. This is normal, but I am as high as 102 with a 5 iron. 

Do you consider this a hard transition with a late release or smooth transition with late release?

[RickyBobby_PR]

It’s an aggressive transition to an extent because you pull on the handle.

Because you pull on the shaft you get steep with the shaft in transition. This causes you to have to stall and early extend as  well as early release to hit the ball. What you see is a roll of the hands to square the face. If you didn’t early release you wouldn’t hit the ball.

But all of that is a result of your takeaway and backswing. You don’t turn the core or any any hip depth. This is going to make the ability to transiting and shallow properly

[shailey]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s an aggressive transition to an extent because you pull on the handle.

Because you pull on the shaft you get steep with the shaft in transition. This causes you to have to stall and early extend as  well as early release to hit the ball. What you see is a roll of the hands to square the face. If you didn’t early release you wouldn’t hit the ball.

But all of that is a result of your takeaway and backswing. You don’t turn the core or any any hip depth. This is going to make the ability to transiting and shallow properly

Pretend you can see me smiling as I write this so you don't take what I am saying wrong. Because there are things about me that you do not or cannot know.

I would love to see my early extension go away.  But, it is something that I have to live with now due to a back surgery that removed cancer. That is why I did not ask for a critique of my swing and only asked for thoughts on transition.  My upper/lower body separation is almost non-existent due to the lumbar and thoracic region being full of scar tissue.  There are things that I physically am not able to do now.  I can barely turn sideways, bend over and lift a jug of milk due to the pain, but I can bench 405 and squat over 500 pain free since it is a straight line movement.  I have to overcome many things with pure strength now (including my golf swing) and it has been life changing.   

But since you brought it up, I will address what I have done to compensate for my inability to separate my upper and lower body. I am working with a PGA professional that had one of his current students finish in the top 5 at Pebble Beach this past week.  He has been able to help me work around these issues and get to where I am consistent again and playing quite well (I'm barely over a 4).  His list of clientele is quite extensive as far as elite players go due to being able to communicates exceptionally well., works with what he has and doesn't create something that can't happen.  

But if you look at the metrics of the swing I am not as steep at impact as most early extenders or players that are 6'5" (-2.1* angle of attack).  I re-route with my hands about halfway in the downswing which is not ideal, but I have no other choice.  Then through therapy I have worked on cervical spine mobility and control.  This way I can still somewhat cover the ball (as best I can) with my chest and not stand WAY up while pushing back like most early extenders.    I am hopeful every day as my wife helps me with my stretching that this tissue will break up and I can enjoy side and rotational movements like I used to.  

So you think I am aggressive.  Thank you for your input.

I see you play the Modus 120.  What flex do you play and what kind of swing speed do you have?  Do you consider yourself aggressive? The reason I ask is because that is actually the reason for this post.  I have been researching the Modus 120 and feel I am in the middle of needing X or TX.  No one has these to try in my area, so I guess I will just order both and get the metrics on them.   

[MacTourney]

Just a couple comments.

1 hour ago, shailey said:

 My upper/lower body separation is almost non-existent due to the lumbar and thoracic region being full of scar tissue.   

 I re-route with my hands about halfway in the downswing which is not ideal, but I have no other choice. 

It's within normal limits at the top so you might have more range on the return than you believe, but it needs to be assessed during a hands-on session to avoid any potential injury. 

If you reroute you are releasing early, not late.  I would say you are going toward the strike robustly-plus with an early release.   Ever watch any of Padraig Harrington throw releases, they could be just what the doctor ordered.  Love your enclosure...

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, shailey said:

Pretend you can see me smiling as I write this so you don't take what I am saying wrong. Because there are things about me that you do not or cannot know.

I would love to see my early extension go away.  But, it is something that I have to live with now due to a back surgery that removed cancer. That is why I did not ask for a critique of my swing and only asked for thoughts on transition.  My upper/lower body separation is almost non-existent due to the lumbar and thoracic region being full of scar tissue.  There are things that I physically am not able to do now.  I can barely turn sideways, bend over and lift a jug of milk due to the pain, but I can bench 405 and squat over 500 pain free since it is a straight line movement.  I have to overcome many things with pure strength now (including my golf swing) and it has been life changing.   

But since you brought it up, I will address what I have done to compensate for my inability to separate my upper and lower body. I am working with a PGA professional that had one of his current students finish in the top 5 at Pebble Beach this past week.  He has been able to help me work around these issues and get to where I am consistent again and playing quite well (I'm barely over a 4).  His list of clientele is quite extensive as far as elite players go due to being able to communicates exceptionally well., works with what he has and doesn't create something that can't happen.  

But if you look at the metrics of the swing I am not as steep at impact as most early extenders or players that are 6'5" (-2.1* angle of attack).  I re-route with my hands about halfway in the downswing which is not ideal, but I have no other choice.  Then through therapy I have worked on cervical spine mobility and control.  This way I can still somewhat cover the ball (as best I can) with my chest and not stand WAY up while pushing back like most early extenders.    I am hopeful every day as my wife helps me with my stretching that this tissue will break up and I can enjoy side and rotational movements like I used to.  

So you think I am aggressive.  Thank you for your input.

I see you play the Modus 120.  What flex do you play and what kind of swing speed do you have?  Do you consider yourself aggressive? The reason I ask is because that is actually the reason for this post.  I have been researching the Modus 120 and feel I am in the middle of needing X or TX.  No one has these to try in my area, so I guess I will just order both and get the metrics on them.   

Sorry to hear that. I was mostly pointing out that you don’t release late but early and why that’s the case.

What I see in the video is a quick transition and a pull of the shaft. This is why I consider you aggressive. Some one like Hideki is smooth, that may be an extreme example but if you compare him to let’s say fowler you can get an idea of what is considered smooth and aggressive.

Imo shafts labeled for aggressive swingers don’t always fit aggressive transition golfers and vice versa for smooth swingers and shafts designed to fit that swing type. Wanted to get that out of the way before replying to the question about my shafts and swing.

I am an aggressive in transition. The modus 120 have a softer design for each of the flex compared to other shafts like a dg s300. I play 120s and just like the feel. I’m not as sensitive to weight and flex as others are. I have had kbs tour which are stiff to flex as they like to say, I’ve had s300 and px6.0 in irons. I’ve had dg105 r flex for awhile when I was borrowing a buddies Bridgestone irons. I don’t know my swing speed but my 7i is roughly a 160 club. I don’t noticed much difference between my miuras with recoil 110, i525 with px io 6.0, pxg 0311t with px 6.0, the clubs I’ve had modus 120 in.

The best thing to do is test the shafts somewhere to see if you like the feel and weight. Then go get fit

[shailey]

22 hours ago, MacTourney said:

Just a couple comments.

It's within normal limits at the top so you might have more range on the return than you believe, but it needs to be assessed during a hands-on session to avoid any potential injury. 

If you reroute you are releasing early, not late.  I would say you are going toward the strike robustly-plus with an early release.   Ever watch any of Padraig Harrington throw releases, they could be just what the doctor ordered.  Love your enclosure...

I reroute my hands by tilting the butt end of the grip outside of the target line halfway in the downswing. I played professional baseball, so I have pretty good hand eye coordination.  Also, when my career ended, I played at a high level of golf reaching a high of +2.7 before I gave it up for a while.   Here are a few pics.  One shows the shaft position right before I reroute.  The 2nd is the very next frame (with a 120 fps camera) where I point the club outside the target.  The 3rd is what we call a throw release, is that the same that you are talking about with Paddy?   

The last two were taken from the side as I don't take many from the side.  This is why I thought I had a late release.   So I guess I was wrong.    

[shailey]

22 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Sorry to hear that. I was mostly pointing out that you don’t release late but early and why that’s the case.

What I see in the video is a quick transition and a pull of the shaft. This is why I consider you aggressive. Some one like Hideki is smooth, that may be an extreme example but if you compare him to let’s say fowler you can get an idea of what is considered smooth and aggressive.

Imo shafts labeled for aggressive swingers don’t always fit aggressive transition golfers and vice versa for smooth swingers and shafts designed to fit that swing type. Wanted to get that out of the way before replying to the question about my shafts and swing.

I am an aggressive in transition. The modus 120 have a softer design for each of the flex compared to other shafts like a dg s300. I play 120s and just like the feel. I’m not as sensitive to weight and flex as others are. I have had kbs tour which are stiff to flex as they like to say, I’ve had s300 and px6.0 in irons. I’ve had dg105 r flex for awhile when I was borrowing a buddies Bridgestone irons. I don’t know my swing speed but my 7i is roughly a 160 club. I don’t noticed much difference between my miuras with recoil 110, i525 with px io 6.0, pxg 0311t with px 6.0, the clubs I’ve had modus 120 in.

The best thing to do is test the shafts somewhere to see if you like the feel and weight. Then go get fit

Gotcha.  I understand now. 

I have gone through a fitting and it was at Club Champion (over 2 hours from my house) and it was actually a very bad experience.  He kept trying to push me into something I didn't like or want.  He kept putting "players distance" heads on shafts after repeatedly telling him I don't want distance, I want control.  Then after hitting about 6 shafts, recommended me to get the Project X LZ 6.0 shaft.  On Trackman, I was at 98 to 101 mph and the ball was going 135 feet in the air and 218 yards with his head suggestion.  To top it off, everything was going left.  Those are not ideal numbers in my opinion because the ball would become uncotrollable in the spring or playing tournaments in the midwest this summer where winds can get gusty.  So I wound up just going with a head I like and going back to old faithful, DG X100. I have used X100 since 1996.   

My irons are actually 1* weak, so my 5 iron (at 28*) is weaker than the majority of 6 irons now and even some 7 irons.  I love the feel of blue shafts and I know the 120 has that same active type of feel to it, so I want to try it.  I was just thinking of flex.  I guess I am going to make up a TX and an X flex and get the stats off them with my simulator. 

[shailey]

23 hours ago, MacTourney said:

Love your enclosure...

The enclosure is a dual purpose.  Baseball and golf.  I owned a training facility for years when I was working with professional pitchers so I have a cameras, stands etc that I use in there. One of my cameras is a Casio ZR1000 that can do a true 1000 fps.  I don't ever go over 120 for hitting or golf though except when filming pitchers.  Then I put it on 480 fps.  The cage itself is 70 x 16 x 12 with the golf insert being 10 x 12 x 10. 

My oldest is still playing college baseball and it is there for him to work on his pitching/hitting and I still do a few lessons in there.  I can take the golf portion down within about 6 minutes.  The batter boxes are concrete and level.  The mound is built to major league specs and has all we need in it.  

I have a 40 acre flat field that I hit balls into when I don't mind going for a walk to pick them up.   I can't hit during the summer though since we grow hay then.  But one of the courses I am a member at has a giant range and I can hit all I want there, so it doesn't matter.  

[MacTourney]

Beautiful landscape!  Yes, Harrington has a couple throw sequences on Instagram and Facebook which are really good viewing. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

19 minutes ago, shailey said:

Gotcha.  I understand now. 

I have gone through a fitting and it was at Club Champion (over 2 hours from my house) and it was actually a very bad experience.  He kept trying to push me into something I didn't like or want.  He kept putting "players distance" heads on shafts after repeatedly telling him I don't want distance, I want control.  Then after hitting about 6 shafts, recommended me to get the Project X LZ 6.0 shaft.  On Trackman, I was at 98 to 101 mph and the ball was going 135 feet in the air and 218 yards with his head suggestion.  To top it off, everything was going left.  Those are not ideal numbers in my opinion because the ball would become uncotrollable in the spring or playing tournaments in the midwest this summer where winds can get gusty.  So I wound up just going with a head I like and going back to old faithful, DG X100. I have used X100 since 1996.   

My irons are actually 1* weak, so my 5 iron (at 28*) is weaker than the majority of 6 irons now and even some 7 irons.  I love the feel of blue shafts and I know the 120 has that same active type of feel to it, so I want to try it.  I was just thinking of flex.  I guess I am going to make up a TX and an X flex and get the stats off them with my simulator. 

Unfortunately fittings are only as good as the fitter: club champion can be hit or miss and depends on the fitter and also what the golfer communicates about expectations and how well the fitter accepts and understands them

[shailey]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Unfortunately fittings are only as good as the fitter: club champion can be hit or miss and depends on the fitter and also what the golfer communicates about expectations and how well the fitter accepts and understands them

You are right.  That stands true with anything in life.  The better the communication, the better off you are.  I filled out their form that they had and repeatedly told him what I wanted and he mentioned my age and how I should be transitioning to players distance...blah blah blah.  He did not listen whatsoever.  I still have the email that he sent me that said his colleagues have reviewed my information and would like to give me another fitting at no charge to try and get me into clubs that suit my needs and accomplish my goals.  So...maybe I should take him up on that.  

[ballplayer002003]

I was reading through your posts, I have the Modus 120x shafts and I feel as if I have a hard transition too.  I was a former baseball player and I absolutely love this shaft.  It's a bit softer than what you currently swing (x100) but it's much smoother too.  My swing is more like Jon Rahm, not much of a backswing but a lot of torque.  The shaft keeps up, no problem. 

[shailey]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:55 PM, ballplayer002003 said:

I was reading through your posts, I have the Modus 120x shafts and I feel as if I have a hard transition too.  I was a former baseball player and I absolutely love this shaft.  It's a bit softer than what you currently swing (x100) but it's much smoother too.  My swing is more like Jon Rahm, not much of a backswing but a lot of torque.  The shaft keeps up, no problem. 

I got the shafts in on Friday and tried the 120X already.  On the simulator I used the exact same 8 balls that I used for the baseline.  My ball speeds went down 2 to 5 mph, launch was 1.5* higher, smash factor was the same and spin rate went up on average 300 rpm.  On a simulator, that meant my carry distance went up so I hit it further.  However, my dispersion was not as good as with the x100.  So then, I went and hit balls into the field. They were shorter than my normal distance.  In the video of my swing, I could see the shaft flexing back into the ball and the club head was well ahead of where the x100 is at the same point in my swing. All of that even though the hands/grip are at the same point. 

So I pulled the X out and am trying the TX now.  I am hoping that this feels the exact same as the X because I loved the feel of it. 

[ballplayer002003]

52 minutes ago, shailey said:

I got the shafts in on Friday and tried the 120X already.  On the simulator I used the exact same 8 balls that I used for the baseline.  My ball speeds went down 2 to 5 mph, launch was 1.5* higher, smash factor was the same and spin rate went up on average 300 rpm.  On a simulator, that meant my carry distance went up so I hit it further.  However, my dispersion was not as good as with the x100.  So then, I went and hit balls into the field. They were shorter than my normal distance.  In the video of my swing, I could see the shaft flexing back into the ball and the club head was well ahead of where the x100 is at the same point in my swing. All of that even though the hands/grip are at the same point. 

So I pulled the X out and am trying the TX now.  I am hoping that this feels the exact same as the X because I loved the feel of it. 

Yes, I love the feel, and I think the TX will be your shaft.  I have never hit them, but like I said, they are a bit softer than the x100.  They just feel smooth, the x100 to me felt way more stout (which I don't mind either) but I would never use the word smooth with the x100.  When I was fitted, using the Mizuno fitting tool, the Modus never even came up on the recommended shafts for me.  The top one was the x100.  I picked the Modus because I was used to it I guess.  It was in the last set of clubs I had and is in my gamers now.