Mizuno JPX-825 Irons

[revkev]

It does help Richard - Of course I knew about the loft factor - I will on occasion pull the old Eye 2's out for a spin and always have to remember to hit one more club because of the loft differential - I still can play with them.

 

I'm in the same boat as your buddy - a variety of nagging little injuries have taken their toll on my swing speed - I'm in the 94 MPH range pretty consistently - I did hit the 800 and 800 Pros and didn't find much difference between them - it was indoors into a net so its not as if I had any data other than feel.

 

I'm like a kid in a candy shop - just got home from testing bridgestone balls - the course was empty so I'm played about 12 holes sometimes hitting 5 balls off the tee and into the green.

[Super Tuna]

Sorry Rev, the Eye 2's were long before my time in the golfing world and I've never got around to hitting them.

 

The 825 Pro's are pretty much a tweaked i20 though. Smaller sole, higher COG location, different looks and a slightly softer feel. IMO the 59's are a much more demanding club then the i20's, though still on the easy to hit side for a "players" club.

 

Spec wise, Richard is stop on though. The standard 825's look to match better to the Eye 2's. Yes, they have stronger lofts club for club but keep in mind with the different head tech, they'll need to have stronger lofts to keep the same flight. Plus Mizzie will go 2 degrees strong or weak with them if that's your preference.

[Ice]

RK, Tuna's description is spot on..I play the 2 & 3 FLI HIs and that is exactly what the MP-H4s remind me of, a complete set of FLI HIs..My thoughts are, what in the hell is Mizuno thinking(that's rhetorical) in putting these in the MP line?..

 

It's like a Callaway Sr. Design Engineer got loose & somehow managed to end up at Mizzy & got these things launched..They are to players' irons what training wheels are to a road racing bike...That being said, I have not doubt that the quality is first rate and for the golfer demographic that they were designed for, they are the finest irons out there...

 

Like them or not, Mizuno would release nothing less than the best...

 

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

20 HC buys the H4 because he reads they are a forgiving players iron. He has success with them. He thinks he's good now so he buys the MP-65s in 2 years.

[revkev]

Thanks guys - as Richard knows by now when it comes to irons its give me simple or give me death - I don't want to struggle with it, I don't want to fight with it, I have too little time to play golf to worry about having to hit irons a couple of times a week so that I can use a blade or other type of player's iron. Used to drive my pro crazy but he also got it - my schedule can get very busy and unpredictable.

 

I've had sets of players irons both blades and MB's - I get why guys love them, something about the beauty of the ball flight and feel when you've hit them well that is heavenly. For that matter the Ping Eye 2 was a players iron - In fact they were the run away number one iron on tour in their day.

 

I'm really leaning towards the 825's but will see what comes of my fitting later this week - I sure will continue to read this thread between now and then - A little birdie told me that the 825's will be in stores this week.

[Super Tuna]

A little birdie told me that the 825's will be in stores this week.

 

Should be today for the general US release. All the fitting carts at the larger locations should have all the new head and shaft options as well.

[revkev]

Should be today for the general US release. All the fitting carts at the larger locations should have all the new head and shaft options as well.

 

Is that perfect timing for me or what! Wow! This keeps getting better every day.

[RoverRick]

The Mizuno web site changed today to have the H4, H64 and the 825's listed on it. Last night it did not.

[revkev]

Cool - I'm going for a look see.

[RoverRick]

I have the MP62 and a couple of MP FLI HI, the H4 is close to a complete line of FLI HI's and unlike Richard who was appauled at the idea, I would bag the H4's. I love the FLI HI and to me they are stupid easy to hit. The 4 iron is my go to club.

[Super Tuna]

I have the MP62 and a couple of MP FLI HI, the H4 is close to a complete line of FLI HI's and unlike Richard who was appauled at the idea, I would bag the H4's. I love the FLI HI and to me they are stupid easy to hit. The 4 iron is my go to club.

 

I can see that but I also think it's an entirely different thing when it's a fli hi 6 iron, not a 4.

 

 

Rick, I like the iron, I just don't like it in the MP line

 

I can see that. More of a terminology issue rather then a exsistance one. A battle I constantly fight with my project sales guy.

[RoverRick]

The FLI HIs are the best "long iron "substitute" iron that I've ever hit...I would definitely look at an H4 for a 3i substitute, though I don't think that yo can buy them like that, can you?...

 

The 3 is my "go to" at one course that I play & it saves me in more ways than just from 215yds away...I thought about keeping it in full-time, though I need my 18.5* hybrid, so I might dump my 3FM...

 

My problem is the line that they positioned it in, from a business standpoint, not a golf or "snob" standpoint..I'm the one who was looking up the yeti as though it were a "real" animal so I hardly have anything to be snobby about..lol..

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

 

I think you can substitute the H4 long irons for the long irons when ordering from Mizuno. Just as you could with the FLI HI.

 

 

I have the 2 iron out of the lineup right now because I can do everything it does plus a higher ball flight with the hybrid. The true advantage of the 2 iron is ego. But in all honesty when I had to hit a good shot or have a high risk of a penalty stroke, I hit the 4 iron or laid up instead of grabbing the 2 iron. It was at that point I decided to go with the 19* hybrid instead. Having the island green on 18 has made that change in the bag. I was standing in the 18th fairway needing to hit the ball 180 yards into a 20 mph wind when I thought I might not get there with the 4 iron and the 2 iron that I choke down on probably will not hold the green so it is time for a bag change.

[RoverRick]

I can see that but I also think it's an entirely different thing when it's a fli hi 6 iron, not a 4.

 

I would have to hit them first of course. I have my Fli Hi on C Taper shafts and I do not see any particularly high ball flight when compared to the 5 iron or any other iron. It is just a name. It is very easy to hit. If I were RevKev or one of the other winners I would definately give these a fair look, I would probably end up with the MP64's but I might well end up with the H4's. However, I do not expect to change irons any time soon. I am not sure I could find any better ones. I am not spending my money on new ones when the old ones are this good.

[revkev]

This is more fun than when I was serving in a church in Indiana and brought up the change to class basketball - I could deflect any conversation with that move.

 

I have to say that I did not interpret Richard's comments vis a vie the H4 as derogatory towards the club - he was simply saying he doesn't believe they belong in the MP category - that makes sense to me.

 

More important from my perspective are RR's comments about the club itself - The Nicklaus Irons that I play are a similar concept and they've served me well the last 10 years - I've shot countless rounds under par with those irons including my all time low of a 66. The Nicklaus Irons that I have are not Mizuno - I hear Mizuno and I think player's club certainly but I also think, quality - why can't a middle handicapper have a quality club that's build to suit his game? I get the postioning business - we are struggling with our church and school to make sure that we are postioned, that people know whom we are and what we stand for, what we do well and what we are content to let others do.

 

I think that Mizuno is paralying its reputation for quality so that it can grab a bit more of the iron market share. I hope they succeed mightily.

 

I will certainly give the H4's a shot.

 

Great conversation! Very beneficial for me - I really appreciate it. Thanks

[RoverRick]

This is more fun than when I was serving in a church in Indiana and brought up the change to class basketball - I could deflect any conversation with that move.

 

I have to say that I did not interpret Richard's comments vis a vie the H4 as derogatory towards the club - he was simply saying he doesn't believe they belong in the MP category - that makes sense to me.

 

More important from my perspective are RR's comments about the club itself - The Nicklaus Irons that I play are a similar concept and they've served me well the last 10 years - I've shot countless rounds under par with those irons including my all time low of a 66. The Nicklaus Irons that I have are not Mizuno - I hear Mizuno and I think player's club certainly but I also think, quality - why can't a middle handicapper have a quality club that's build to suit his game? I get the postioning business - we are struggling with our church and school to make sure that we are postioned, that people know whom we are and what we stand for, what we do well and what we are content to let others do.

 

I think that Mizuno is paralying its reputation for quality so that it can grab a bit more of the iron market share. I hope they succeed mightily.

 

I will certainly give the H4's a shot.

 

Great conversation! Very beneficial for me - I really appreciate it. Thanks

 

Kev,

 

Since we are talking about you and your forthcoming windfall, I will use that as an example. I have tried and even kept detailed notes about GI vs MB . By MB musclebacks I am talking specifically the MP62's. I even used the same shafts. The exact same shafts with different heads.

 

The GI irons, while they are much more forgiving, they are designed for people who can not launch the ball high enough. Also, it was my experience, that I did not hit more GIR with GI irons than MB. All shots with the GI irons felt the same and I would have to wait until the ball eventually landed before I could tell if I hit it well or not. The MB I knew immediately if I hit the ball well. However, it was not like dribbled the ball 20 feet down the fairway. A typical poor hit for me will be low on the face, the ball will fly lower than normal but shorter than normal and roll. So I will end up about in the same place with both irons. The difference it one will be real low and the other will be real high. Ok, both tend to be to the left also. Bottom line is that the GI clubs do not magically find the green any more than the MB.

 

The real diffence was on the next shot. With MBs in the bag, I have 6 or 7 clubs I can use to chip or pitch with. 7-9 irons and however many wedges. With the GI irons, I could not develop the feel that I wanted with then so only had my gap, sand, and lob wedge to use. Chipping with the GI irons was inconsistant.

 

Now, the other issue is, when that head get on a shaft much more than 35 inches away it gets small. And when you have to hit over water or something with a long iron well, you know the drill. This is why I have a FLI HI 4 iron.

 

So now we come specifically to you. Let's face it, you will probably never again have the opportunity to get a brand new set of irons custom built for you the month that they come out. So you really only have three choices. The MP64, the JPX825, and the MP H4. Why settle for last years stuff?

 

Based solely on what I read on the MIzuno web site, and knowing you are about the same handicap as me. I think you will find that the MP64 to be the papa bear irons. Too hard. Yeah they are great and forgiving for MB irons but bring your "A" game when you have to hit that 4 iron across the pond. The JPX825 to be the mama bear irons. Too soft. These are designed to be super forgiving, but also designed to launch the ball high.

 

However, the MP H4 may be the baby bear irons. Just right. They are actually a combo set and represent the first true combo set Mizuno has offered. Look at the picture below. The scoring irons are still great for around the green but the others are designed with great GI attributes with out the added ultrahigh launch characteristics. These were the ones that I would be looking at if I would have berated and cajoled my perishioner into voting for me. But you get to hit them first.

[RoverRick]

I see here where he wants a grahite shaft. And we all know that shaft is at least 50% of the iron so he will have to hit them and get what he wants. I just told what I would get if I were in his possition.

[revkev]

RR - really nice write up - loved it -

 

I spent a lot of sleepless time last night over a variety of things not the least of which were two unspeakable tragedies going on among those congregants of mine (a year old with terminal brain cancer - if anyone out there is a praying man Hudson is his name and we'll take all the prayers we can get.) So I had lots of time to think about this and I think you're right.

 

My Nicklaus Irons are that very same concept except of course they are 10 year old technology with that same concept. I've enjoyed those clubs immensly and played some great golf with them - imagine Mizzie's with all of their research and experience and quality built in.

 

I'm anxious to go get fit but I'm pretty well sold that this is the way I'm going. What would be the worst thing that could happen? My longest iron is currently a 6 - I could comfortably hit a hickory shafted club with that kind of loft so I'd just put my old Adams Idea pro 4 and 5 hybrid back into the bag if for some reason I wasn't comfortable with the 4 and 5 iron - I'm betting I love them though - I'd love to have the trajectory of a 4 iron down here, even if it were a higher one, beyond a doubt.

 

I think I'm ready for some poradge and a good night's sleep.

[RoverRick]

Rick, what do you think of graphite in irons?..Have you ever hit graphite in an iron?..How much does a graphite shaft cost?...What is the ave. distance gain off of graphite?...How was the feel?...

 

Thanx Rick...

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

My Hogan CFT's were originally graphite shafts, and were supposedly the right shafts for me. Sadly, this was not the case and I never saw any increase in distance or control or anything and spent years reshafting these to finally get them right. However, as part of the 2012: A Shaft Odyssey I did collect some data using Cobra and Callaway clubs with a graphite shaft. Initially, I was hopeful. I was hitting the PW over 150 yards in carry and the 6 iron I occasionally hit over 200. However, unless I went to graphite wedges that meant I would have to cover any distance between 100 (max SW) and 150 with a gap wedge or two. But it stands to reason that if I hit a 3 iron 100 more yards than a pitching wedge, and I hit a pitching wedge 150 yards, I can now hit a 3 iron 250 yards. Sadly this was not the case. The 3 iron went 4 more yards than my current 3 iron.

 

What I did in fact experience was that there was a 12 yard gap between PW and 9. Less between a 8 and 9. Even less with a 8 and 7. So what I was doing was using 8 clubs to cover the distance between 150 and 215. With the XS steel I covered that from 120 to 210 with those clubs. All I had accomplished was to create the need to add more wedges.

 

The only important number with distance is the consistant distance. I have finally figured out that there is no need to even think about the 300 yard drive. That is like the 150 yard pitching wedge. Sure I might can hit it once out of 200 tries. But what have I accomplished.

 

A couple of weeks ago, one of the high cappers in my group said he was always amazed that off the tee, while everyone was hitting driver, I was hittng irons and was the fartherest from the hole after the first shot, yet when we got up to the green, I was usually closest to the hole. I simply said thank you. I did not tell him that with the same force but a different club I cah hit a 5 iron with the almost the same accuracy as a gap wedge because it is the same swing.

Steel vs Graphite Irons.pdf

[revkev]

That's interesting because I've played graphite for years but do play with four wedges -

 

I know the question from Richard was for Rick but since I play graphite I can explain why - I have all kinds of back issues - I made the switch because at the time graphite was touted as easier on the body - I don't know how true this is anymore but I've learned to like the graphite - I certainly get feedback on shots - as you've picked up my 7 iron down are a players type of iron so you know what's going on when you hit the ball - no doubt about that.

 

For Richard why would you switch? You're playing great golf with what you have. I recall that the transition to graphite took a while so why put yourself through that or even think about putting yourself through that and what do you think about class basketball in Indiana?

 

 

There have been so many advances in graphite that they can be made to perform very much like steel, heavier weight, lower ball flight, etc. Depends on what you want.

 

I'm intending to have graphite in my irons simply because that's what I've been playing with for the past 10 years and it works - I currently have G-tech's from Graphite by Design - I have their S/R flex which would be their equivalent to the Project X 5.5's - thats what I have my eye on right now - they're a tad heavier than my current shafts but I doubt I'm goint to notice 10 grams - I'm pretty good - not that good. You know aside from the static measurement and a few swings on the board to get the lie straight I think I'm ready to pull the trigger here - I wish I could find that paper that has whether or not my current lies are set to 1 or 2 degrees flat - I'm such a stupid sometimes.

 

Maybe the Yeti ate them.

[RoverRick]

I should have pointed out that in addition to the graphite shafts, these had jacked up lofts. And they were longer than their steel counter parts. So I got maybe 10 more yards from the shaft being graphite, but with 45 vs 47 degrees and an extra lenght, the pw was closer to an 8 1/2 iron, plus this other distance.

 

As far as graphite easier on the body, maybe the hands but I do not believe any other part. But that is why I got them but now the only graphite shaft I play is in the driver.

 

 

Edit: Of the 30 or 40 shafts I have or pieces of shaft I have left over through the years, I now know that there have only been 4 that fit my swing, so my low opinion of them is certainly uninformed. I can tell you all you need to know about the two shafts. The right shaft is awesome, in graphite or steel. The wrong one is not.

[RoverRick]

Maybe the Yeti ate them.

 

 

I am pretty sure that Yeti are carnivores but Unicorns are herbivores. Maybe one of those ate it. Richard, what do you think happened to his papers? Yeti or unicorn?

[revkev]

I'm anxious to hear his answer to that question but while we're waiting my shafts are standard lengths as are my lofts (if there is such a thing as standard anymore). My gaps are pretty stable at 12 yards - I prefer more clubs at the bottom of the bag -

 

There's a wedge for everything is my motto. Can't wait to try those score wedges out - I'm intrigued by their concept. Is this similar to TMags new wedge?

[revkev]

I'm anxious to hear his answer to that question but while we're waiting my shafts are standard lengths as are my lofts (if there is such a thing as standard anymore). My gaps are pretty stable at 12 yards - I prefer more clubs at the bottom of the bag -

 

There's a wedge for everything is my motto. Can't wait to try those score wedges out - I'm intrigued by their concept. Is this similar to TMags new wedge?

[Super Tuna]

Rick, what do you think of graphite in irons?

 

Not Rick but as a chime in, I love them. Now I'm going to add a caveat in that there's only two that I'm willing to suggest and one isn't for me.

A: The PX Graphite shafts are excellent for anyone that fits the PX profile. I've seen a number of guys make the switch and they've been quite happy with it.

 

B: Matrix Programs. IMO this is Daniel's best shaft design to date. Feels like muted steel, kinda like PXI's, plays like steel but with none of the nasty side effects on the joint. I'm moving into my 3rd set of Program shafts and this time I won't be giving them up.

 

The best way I can put something about Programs: These aren't your grand pappy's graphite shafts. These suckers are burly. It's really, really funny watching some guy try and go from hitting a PX 5.5 and then have a go with a Program X flex because graphite is wussy. Damn funny.

 

I currently have G-tech's from Graphite by Design - I have their S/R flex which would be their equivalent to the Project X 5.5's

 

I'm presuming you know this already but if you're looking at a FCM match between the G Tech's and the PX's keep in mind the 5.5 on the PX scale really means 6.0 on the FCM scale.

 

Again, I imagine you already knew that, I've just seen it catch a few people lately when they don't realize they jumped half a flex and wonder where their distance and feel went.

[revkev]

I appreciate that Super Tuna - I didn't know it for sure but as I've been doing more research I was beginning to get the sense that this was the case. You just confirmed what I was thinking.

 

You are also the second person to make the identical recommendation about graphite shafts. I'm a little leary of a graphite that's 120 gms. Should I be?

[Super Tuna]

If 120g is too much, it's too much either way. And I wouldn't recommend the Programs without getting fit for them.

 

The PX graphite shafts, if you're eyeballing those are certainly under that weight though. They roll in around 90 grams, so right in that sweet spot for light weight yet still being stable.

 

Are you able to swing by a place with a Mizuno fitting cart before placing your order? The shaft optimizer plus 15 minutes to try out it's suggestions plus a couple of similair options would have you sorted out easily.

[revkev]

See RR - I told you it was the Yeti!

[RoverRick]

See RR - I told you it was the Yeti!

 

 

Well, Richard has turned into our resident cryptozoologist. So he is probably right but I think that a rhinoceros is sort of an armored unicorn.

[revkev]

umhhh not that's one to ponder -

 

If he really is a unicorn which Mizuno would he play - that Rhino?