Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[Goober]

That hackmotion looks like a lot of fun.But the $1000 price tag for the best model turns me away 

[vandyland]

13 hours ago, Goober said:

That hackmotion looks like a lot of fun.But the $1000 price tag for the best model turns me away 

Yep, I get that. I will have some crystallized thoughts in my review conclusion in a few weeks but I must say it is an impressive device. Whether or not you can actually interpret the findings and make meaningful changes is the real question. 

Also, I played 9 holes yesterday and had a FANTASTIC round. Hit the par 5 first in two (280 yd drive, 233 yd 4 wood to 25 feet, two putt birdie). Birdied the par 3 3rd. Birdied the par 5 4th hole and only had one bogey on the 190 yd par 3 6th hole. So a 2 under 9 hole round where I hit 8/9 greens and didn't miss a fairway. PRETTY GOOD! I would chalk it all up to having a more "connected' finish and not rolling my forearms excessively. Will this feel last??? Only time will tell. As always with this thread, I am filled with optimism. 

[vandyland]

Well, as always, I couldn't leave well enough alone. I looked at video of my swing (again) this weekend and noticed my old issues showing back up: Flat shoulder turn, no hip depth, early extension in the downswing AND the backswing. I really struggle to get my trail hip UP and BACK in the backswing and when I do, it is hard to figure out how where to go from there. I have just been swinging flat for a long time and I can play decent golf like that but most every really good player gets back into that trail hip in the backswing. I fight this battle almost every year and then give up because I can't do it over a month or two, this year will probably be the same thing. Ultimately if I get more shoulder tilt my right hip will naturally move back a bit to keep me from falling over but the transition ends up feeling very strange. 

[vandyland]

A positive development on the practice side, I have replaced my very thin mat with a much more substantial mat in hopes of extending the life of my ligaments and joints as my right elbow was really starting to bother me. This is what I previously used, a very cheap mat from Amazon. Very flexible and light but not great on the protection side of things:

Fast forward to this mat I salvaged from a range that was getting upgraded. Probably 5x heavier in terms of static weight but waaay more comfortable, notice how much thicker it is:

I have been using this mat for about a week now and my elbow feels better already. This was a much needed upgrade and I may not even need the anti-fatigue mats under it anymore but I have them already so I will just keep them there. 

Played golf on Friday and shot a fairly smooth 74. Swing felt good with the increased shoulder pitch but I have to be careful not to get too passive in my arms as they can get pinned to my chest which is not really what I want. Ball was coming out higher and driver was especially good. I challenged myself on a few shots and hit two balls OB on what I knew to be risky shots in the moment. So a 74 with two balls OB I will take as I made 5 birdies on the day which is excellent for me. 

Edited September 9 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Played in a member/guest over the weekend and it was ugly (we finished dead last in our flight and almost dead last in the entire event on points). Posted differentials of 6.8, 10.1, 9.3, 5.9 and 6.6 for an average differential of 7.75. Unfortunately I was playing off a 1.9 index so I was ZERO help to my partner. Everyone in our flight was stroking off my index so I never got a single shot all weekend and was just giving them out left and right. I am trying to fight the urge to see how many times I got beaten straight up (no strokes) by my opponents but it felt like it happened a few times for sure. Driver was bad, irons were ok, wedges were meh, putter was very bad and sand/specialty shots were a joke. 

But I learned a valuable lesson -- short of actually sandbagging, I am really a 5-6 hdcp. I played with a lot of 6-8 hdcps this weekend that were just as good if not significantly better than I am. So I should be very careful to never let my handicap get so low again. It was a combination of playing tees that really suited my game and allowing too many people to say "that's good pick it up" on 3-5 foot putts. I probably missed at least FOUR putts in that range this weekend. I would say the course we played was a bad course fit for me but that is just loser talk. I got outplayed (and out handicap managed) by the field and I won't make that mistake again. At least we didn't buy our team in the calcutta. 

[Josh Parker]

The handicap issue is tough. Too many don't post their good scores and many also post "glorified" scores which drops the handicap.  Some of the guys decided to do a match play tourney and one of the guys has already been caught being dishonest. Shot a great round from tips and got strokes but then posted it as playing from the whites. It's a 3 shot difference with handicaps.  His would have dropped after this round. 

Will always be sandbaggers. 

[vandyland]

9 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

Will always be sandbaggers. 

That is true but I also have to be honest and say I just didn't play well. Frankly I was a 2 hdcp for like a millisecond but this tournament takes your lowest index during the year so I was stuck with it. I don't care if I win I just hate potentially looking like the guy with the vanity handicap. 

[Josh Parker]

2 minutes ago, vandyland said:

That is true but I also have to be honest and say I just didn't play well. Frankly I was a 2 hdcp for like a millisecond but this tournament takes your lowest index during the year so I was stuck with it. I don't care if I win I just hate potentially looking like the guy with the vanity handicap. 

Tournaments are different too!  Different mindset than playing with the guys.   We hit our handicap 20% of the time.  If you shot a 5 or 6 over it matches the norm. 

[Goober]

Did you ever pursue the Hockey Slap Shot Drill from BroomForce? 

[vandyland]

14 hours ago, Goober said:

Did you ever pursue the Hockey Slap Shot Drill from BroomForce? 

I did. I think that is a good feel, particularly for sequencing on the downswing. Right now I am focusing on getting my trail hip BACK and my lead shoulder DOWN in the backswing. 

Hit about 50 balls yesterday at about 70% effort with a PW. Most came out fine but turned a little left on me. I think my arms being flattish is okay so long as I keep my left side bend in the backswing. I am still getting a *little* flippy at the bottom.

Edited Tuesday at 01:44 PM by vandyland

[Goober]

Looks great. One thing I never understood is shoulder tilts.imho, one would think everyone would tilt their shoulders automatically.Since golf is played on a tilted plane.My problem is I tilt on way back. But I get square shoulders at impact:(.I can do it on practice swings.But once I introduce a ball it is a no go. 

[Jim Shaw]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:33 AM, Josh Parker said:

The handicap issue is tough. Too many don't post their good scores and many also post "glorified" scores which drops the handicap.  Some of the guys decided to do a match play tourney and one of the guys has already been caught being dishonest. Shot a great round from tips and got strokes but then posted it as playing from the whites. It's a 3 shot difference with handicaps.  His would have dropped after this round. 

Will always be sandbaggers. 

I have been reading this thread with @vandyland and a few others, i am struggling understanding why golfers would get "vanity" handicaps or "higher" handicaps..

Golf is the one sport I have played where there is a mechanism in place that enables players of all levels to potentially compete against each other on a "fairly" close playing field. 

I can't play tennis against a professional tennis player and have a "match" or a professional squash player and have a match (just a couple of games that come to my mind at 6:57 am PST)

However if Tiger woods wants to play a match, he is a +10 and I am a 2, he has to give me 12 strokes, and will most likely dust me but whatever...

I truly believe that the R&A and the USGA and the governing bodies have set up a system that is in the best interest of the game, and I also believe that 75-80% of golfers that keep a handicap do so with integrity, probably more maybe 90-95%.

In my lifetime "sandbaggers" have been quietly identified and monitored by the members of their clubs and get called out at some point. 

Just my morning rant lol...

[cnosil]

17 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

I have been reading this thread with @vandyland and a few others, i am struggling understanding why golfers would get "vanity" handicaps or "higher" handicaps..

 

IMO, vanity caps are so that you appear to be a better golfer than you really are.   While there is a handicap system players don’t count all their shots or only post the good scores.   People want higher handicaps so they can win tournaments and prizes, they only post the bad scores to bump up the cap.   

[Josh Parker]

21 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

I truly believe that the R&A and the USGA and the governing bodies have set up a system that is in the best interest of the game, and I also believe that 75-80% of golfers that keep a handicap do so with integrity, probably more maybe 90-95%.

In my lifetime "sandbaggers" have been quietly identified and monitored by the members of their clubs and get called out at some point. 

Just my morning rant lol...

I do for the most part as well.  I think local rules and muni courses that aren't maintained great can cause the "vanity" scores to a certain degree.  We have local rules for our bunkers because we have so many deer that trample thru them.  We also have to remember that for most, they don't play tourney golf and its local games or the MGA where they play a number of different games every time they meet and play.  People hate losing.  They play for a couple bucks and true scores aren't always posted.  (granted, some of them probably just simply forget) 

Sandbaggers will always be called out at some point for sure!

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:23 PM by Josh Parker

[Jim Shaw]

2 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

I do for the most part as well.  I think local rules and muni courses that aren't maintained great can cause the "vanity" scores to a certain degree.  We have local rules for our bunkers because we have so many deer that trample thru them.  We also have to remember that for most, they don't play tourney golf and its local games or the MGA where they play a number of different games every time they meet and play.  People hate losing.  They play for a couple bucks and true scores aren't always posted.  (granted, some of them probably just simply forget) 

Sandbaggers will always be called out at some point for sure!

 

Yes, most don't play high level tournament golf, but anytime you play for money I won't play unless the player has a registered handicap and if I play well and they play well and they dust me, that is the last time I will play for money with them. 

I am trying to get my head around if local rules really affect the handicap much, for example if your local rule is to move your ball in the bunker and everyone gets to do it then in theory the better bunker player should "do better". you know what I mean? it just levels everything out. 

[Jim Shaw]

10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

IMO, vanity caps are so that you appear to be a better golfer than you really are.   While there is a handicap system players don’t count all their shots or only post the good scores.   People want higher handicaps so they can win tournaments and prizes, they only post the bad scores to bump up the cap.   

I understand the "why" behind it, and as I stated IMO it is the minority, at least in the circles I have played in for my golfing career. 

The only thing my index does for me is get's me slotted in a certain group the 1st. two rounds of a tournament, the lower the index the better players you start with, which is really not an issue in most of the tournaments. 

10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

IMO, vanity caps are so that you appear to be a better golfer than you really are.   While there is a handicap system players don’t count all their shots or only post the good scores.   People want higher handicaps so they can win tournaments and prizes, they only post the bad scores to bump up the cap.   

 

[Josh Parker]

Just now, Jim Shaw said:

I am trying to get my head around if local rules really affect the handicap much, for example if your local rule is to move your ball in the bunker and everyone gets to do it then in theory the better bunker player should "do better". you know what I mean? it just levels everything out. 

It does level until you play a different course and you run into a bad lie in a bunker.  People fluffing shots (in general) but posting a score creates vanity handicaps.  Some people want to look better and some want to look worse depending on how they "use" their handicap.  

If they just have it to have it, then you will see them with a lower handicap than you will ever see them play.  If they play for local games, you will see a big gap in scores on posting.  They pick and choose.  

I personally don't get it, but it happens way too much.  

[Jim Shaw]

1 minute ago, Josh Parker said:

It does level until you play a different course and you run into a bad lie in a bunker.  People fluffing shots (in general) but posting a score creates vanity handicaps.  Some people want to look better and some want to look worse depending on how they "use" their handicap.  

If they just have it to have it, then you will see them with a lower handicap than you will ever see them play.  If they play for local games, you will see a big gap in scores on posting.  They pick and choose.  

I personally don't get it, but it happens way too much.  

Usually in a field of 70 or more I will hear about 1 or 2 guys that are sandbaggers, usually club tournaments ie club championships, not provincial or national as handicaps don't count, may be one reason I enjoy playing in those.

Off topic a bit but how many times would most of your playing partners play at different courses, most of the guys I play with only play our home course and maybe make a trip or two throughout the season to travel with some buddies on a golf trip. Percentage wise they probably play 90% at one course.

[Josh Parker]

5 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

 

Off topic a bit but how many times would most of your playing partners play at different courses, most of the guys I play with only play our home course and maybe make a trip or two throughout the season to travel with some buddies on a golf trip. Percentage wise they probably play 90% at one course.

It really depends.  I would agree, most of the time its 80-90%  

[vandyland]

Good topic/discussion here @Josh Parker and @Jim Shaw. For me, I didn't belong to a private club until last year so prior to that I was playing 4-5 different courses on a regular rota. I would say two were massively overrated from a difficulty standpoint and two were properly rated and one was underrated. The two that were overrated were long but wide open and not a lot of trouble. As such, I could spray it but still be fine. The underrated course was fairly short but extremely penal/tight off the tee and that used to really punish me. Now that I belong to a club which I would again say is overrated from a course rating and slope perspective. It is pretty rare you will lose a ball out there and there is not a ton of thick rough. The bunkers are penal and the greens are insanely fast, you can get used to both of those things though. 

On the vanity capper front, there is another aspect that I would point out. You can be heavily influenced by the group you play with. People that love to give you every 4 foot putt, or tell you "take a breakfast ball" or "don't worry about that lost ball, it is under a leaf somewhere" or "move off that root, you don't want to break a wrist (but don't take an unplayable)" or "I was talking in your backswing..hit another", etc etc. Also there are people that just don't like shooting a bad score and will give themselves any help they can like the items above or not re-teeing when they hit OB with white stakes and treating it like a lateral hazard (I see that ALL THE TIME on public courses). I don't really care what vanity cappers do and outside of a tournament I don't care if you are playing by the rules or not. It wasn't until last year when I (politely) put my foot down and was like "I play by the rules, you do what you want but stop scooping my ball when it is 3 feet from the cup." 

[Josh Parker]

4 minutes ago, vandyland said:

On the vanity capper front, there is another aspect that I would point out. You can be heavily influenced by the group you play with. People that love to give you every 4 foot putt, or tell you "take a breakfast ball" or "don't worry about that lost ball, it is under a leaf somewhere" or "move off that root, you don't want to break a wrist (but don't take an unplayable)" or "I was talking in your backswing..hit another", etc etc. Also there are people that just don't like shooting a bad score and will give themselves any help they can like the items above or not re-teeing when they hit OB with white stakes and treating it like a lateral hazard (I see that ALL THE TIME on public courses). I don't really care what vanity cappers do and outside of a tournament I don't care if you are playing by the rules or not. It wasn't until last year when I (politely) put my foot down and was like "I play by the rules, you do what you want but stop scooping my ball when it is 3 feet from the cup." 

I see a lot of this as well!  

[Goober]

I think dump the handicap idea.And let everyone play lowest score wins.If you stink, than get better.
 

Ive rarely played with a vanity handicapper.But played with many many sand baggers 

[Josh Parker]

4 minutes ago, Goober said:

I think dump the handicap idea.And let everyone play lowest score wins.If you stink, than get better.
 

Ive rarely played with a vanity handicapper.But played with many many sand baggers 

I'm with @Jim Shaw, I love that golf is one of the only sports that you can compete no matter where you are at with your game. 

[vandyland]

Well had a quick 9 hole round this morning that went well, 2 birdies and 2 bogeys for an even par 35 with no lost balls. Was leaving iron shots slightly out to the right but was hitting my driver exceptionally well including one that went 302 yds in the fairway. Had an up and down out of the bunker as well. My current feels seem to be getting more ingrained, lead shoulder down in the backswing (which keeps my trail hip back) and then staying connected in the downswing and not rolling my forearms too much through the ball.