[3 vs 4 Wheel Push Carts]

My original pushcart was a Bagboy Quad and I Now have a ClicGear 3.5 three wheeler. Both are great carts but the ClicGear is easier to push although either is acceptable. Even on hilly courses, stability is not an issue with either. I do prefer the ClicGear as it holds a variety of bags easily. 
 

 

[Is GolfWRX even relevant anymore?]

I have found it interesting as I saw this thread asking a question about the relevance of another forum. 

From a personal standpoint, I have for many years looked at both MGS and Golfwrx but have only recently began contributing to both forums. Each forum has its own culture which seems to be relevant enough to attract a large number of people willing to wade in. I think the question has to be, is MGS, GolfWRX, or any other relevant to my interests and are people at least civil in dealing with someone that may disagree with them.

Like Stu and a couple of others, I approach golf differently than the vast majority of people that frequent both sites. I am a feel player and my personal observation is that modern golf has got so caught up in technology and it’s “benefits” to players that has become somewhat one dimensional in its thinking. Pronouncements that one should or should not play blades, CB, or “game improvement” irons comes out of that thinking as an example to make you a better player. Personally I play just about everything from the hickory era to modern equipment and that the technological improvements are not as impactful to a decent player than is almost taken for granted. I think you should play what brings you the most enjoyment and embrace the challenges of the game. 

Thank you for indulging my rant. Back to the original topic. I think GolfWRX and MGS are both relevant to their online communities.

 

[Found Ball Etiquette]

“Please let any lost balls come to a complete stop before picking them up” is my first rule of golf ball etiquette.

[How often do you purchase new wedges/do they really change year/year?]

I replace my modern wedges every 2 to 3 years, mostly because of wear and tear. 

[Building The Perfect Team (twosome/foursome)]

I play in at least a few scrambles every year, most are charity events and we make it fun. For shots off the tee, we go from shortest to longest which keeps everyone’s mind in the game. For approach shots and putting, we use the most skilled last which relieves a lot of the pressure on the weaker players.

Keeping it upbeat is always better than being too serious even in more competitive events. Our groups usually punch above their weight.

[Driver]

Or just buy an adjustable driver and leave it on the native loft that you think suits you. 

[Off the top of your head....]

8 hours ago, DrRob1963 said:

I have two regular gaming sets, plus multiple other iron sets plus persimmon woods and all sorts of wedges. "A mad golf club collector" as my wife puts it!

For both of my gamer sets, I know the lofts, lengths, swing weights and distances of each club. As one poster said, this helps me move between sets, and also with hired sets when travelling, so I know roughly how far club each is going to go - because that's the single most important thing.... How far will I hit this club? 

A man after my own heart. I have 10 or 11 restored hickory sets that get significant play. A couple classic iron sets in addition to my modern set. Large assortment of woods in hickory, classic, and modern.

[Off the top of your head....]

6 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Average golfers don’t deliver the DYNAMIC LOFT needed because they strike the ball with no or even backward shaft lean. 
 

So playing stronger lofts actually help they deliver a more effective DYNAMIC LOFT

 

Static loft is not a fitting tool in the club fitting world; it is a means to get to a desired dynamic loft to produce ideal flight and yardage gaps. 

I don’t disagree. But even average golfers carry clubs throughout the range at least to the SW. My point is there is no need to Jack the loft. The reason is marketing. The shaft is at least as important in this equation as well. 

[Off the top of your head....]

6 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

When you are educating these golfers.  Do you spend any time explaining to them why lofts have changed in relation to materials and weight placement in order to maintain playable Launch angles?  

Actually, with the exception of the 60 degree and above wedges, all of the lofts have existed in most sets from at least the 1920’s. Many golfers struggled with irons with less than 25 degrees of loft (mid iron) just like today. They had various high lofted woods to compensate, does that sound familiar. Although most irons were butter knife blades, there were clubs with greater flanges and different weight placement. Until 1938, there was no club restrictions and players ( especially good ones) had a variety of irons to produce the shot shapes they required. I have introduced a lot of good golfers to hickory and they are amazed at the versatility and trajectories possible with a hickory shaft. Steel shafts were legal after 1924 in the US. Bobby Jones still used hickory for his 1930 grand slam largely due to the feel and versatility.

So, in answering your question, yes we do talk about how to maintain launch angles. For the first time player, I use magic marker with a rough equivalent to a modern set as a base to start. After two or three holes, good golfers are having a ball, working shots and getting very creative. I would encourage anyone to give it a try, these old clubs are still very playable. 
 

 

[Off the top of your head....]

15 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

It seems we agree on most of the nuts and bolts of what is important. I would assert, however, that there is just as much excess ego involved in sticking with "traditional" lofts and refusing to play (or even try) what might be better clubs for your game simply because they are "jacked" as there is in trying to find clubs that allow you to hit a given number a given yardage. Marketing aside, the important thing is what works for your game. The number on the club is irrelevant. 

I play modern clubs as well as everything dating back to Pre1900 because of my fascination with the game. I just updated my modern woods in November. I was fitted into a set of TM P790 irons for my 65 th birthday a couple years ago. I live in the middle of a golf course and love trying players irons from every manufacturer. I sold the P790’s to a friend last year because of the lack of feel and because flyers would go too long. I went back to a fully forged club because I found better control. The P790’s are very good clubs as are other brands.

You are absolutely right that the number on the club is irrelevant, at least to you and me. Nevertheless, there is no way to justify having PW at 41 or 42 degrees as some SGI clubs have. It screws up the back end of the bag for the golfers that are generally less informed. The ironic part of the situation is that the extra wedges you have to buy all have the lofts on them. There are a lot of players out there with their iron sets being 7-PW followed by three or four extra wedges, basically an extra set.

There have been technological changes, virtually incremental from year to year and some are featured strictly to sell more clubs. Do they make someone a better golfer, maybe, maybe not. Good golfers are usually more knowledgeable and likely get their facts straight. Interestingly virtually all the players clubs from OEMs have close to standard lofts with PW around 46.

 

[Off the top of your head....]

7 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

I hit the 7 iron in this set approximately the same length as my previous 5 iron, but the shaft is about an inch shorter. The dispersion IS much better. That's not their marketing, it's actual observation and measurement. And it makes sense that the shorter shaft provides more accuracy. I've always been more accurate with shorter irons, not longer. How about you? (No idea what your graphite comment has to do with anything. I've had one set of graphite shafted irons, and they were longer in length and less accurate, so didn't last long.)

Again, loft is a number that simply measures the upward tilt of the face. Many other factors play into launch angle, descent angle, carry distance, stopping power, etc.  The numbers that are important to me are distance, dispersion, and release and roll. If the iron that most effectively maximizes those is jacked or not... why would that matter to me? It's absolute silliness to eliminate irons because they don't meet your idea of traditional lofts. 

My comment is not disputing the importance of dispersion, it is critical and you have found a club that is more accurate. That does not negate the argument that I am asserting. The primary reason for the loft creep over the last thirty years has been playing on the egos of guys that want to say they hit a 7 iron 150 yards. The 2 iron and 3 irons are going the way of the dodo bird after almost 100 years for one reason only, marketing.

That being said, all of the factors you make in the second paragraph are absolutely valid and important. What has been done though is eliminating the 2 and 3, creating a need for a GW and an extra wedge at the other end. My point on the graphite shaft being half an inch longer than the same Club in steel is for marketing purposes. The half inch extra length will likely give you extra length at the expense of dispersion, exactly like your 7 iron.

I am an organizer of historical golf events and introduce new people to historical play routinely. The understanding of the lofts and how the numbered sets evolved to make it easier for players to understand is one of the fundamental evolution of the modern game. For sixty years, there was rough standardization, the last while anything but. 
 

You are well informed, most golfers are not and my cynicism is rooted in what I believe is marketing hype for one purpose, to sell the latest toy as being better, whether it is or not. 

[Off the top of your head....]

I know all my lofts as well as the yardage that I hit each. It was important in making up my sets, even more important for me because I frequently play other sets of clubs frequently and can make the yardage adjustments. Since I organize and play in historical events with clubs from different eras, knowing the lofts is very helpful moving back and forth. You may be interested that loft for loft, the difference in iron distances is at best 1 to 1.5 clubs over the last 100 years.

One more point about jacked lofts. You can rationalize that a shorter shaft will give you better dispersion with shorter shafts, then why are graphite iron shafts routinely a half inch longer than steel. Simply marketing smoke and mirrors. I would rather buy a set where a five iron. was a five iron, but more importantly that a PW was actually a PW. Given the current lack of any standardization, we might just go back to mashie- niblick and niblick, oh I forgot, we now call them gap wedge or approach wedge.

My take is you need to know your lofts and yardages when testing new equipment along with dispersion to assess whether the new equipment is better than what you currently play. I am all for getting proper equipment that gives you a chance to approve, I am opposed to the current marketing trends in the golf industry that confuse rather than enlighten the situation.

[When your swing feels foreign]

I agree that there are going to be days that it seems you forgot how to play. On another front, as we age, there is a tendency to believe that we can maintain our tempo like we were younger. Truthfully, once you are in your 50’s or after a significant injury, facing reality and making a few adjustments can help you maintain your scores.

I did not age gracefully on this front. I was in good shape for my age but still tried to swing as hard as I used to. It did not work. Once I made a conscious effort to slow my swing down to a sustainable tempo, my scoring improved. Chasing distance in my opinion is not the way to go especially over 50. I am now almost 68 and in season play almost everyday. Playing within myself has kept my scoring in the same ballpark as 20 years ago, one tee forward. I have a better short game to compensate for shorter length. Trying to swing to hard is the easiest way to go off the rails in my opinion.

[Range-to-Rounds ratio?]

Shaping shots for no reason is not being creative. The shotmaking skills I am talking about is basically applying the wedge matrix throughout the bag. Learning to confidently hit half and three quarter shots for example with other irons is very useful depending on pin position, wind, etc.. This is particularly in getting back on track when you don’t have your best stuff. Playing with a short set of clubs can help you accomplish the same thing.

I was not suggesting that a person should not practice outside of a round. I am suggesting that battle testing is a very good teacher. I play most of my rounds with several friends that are evenly matched. We all want to win and pride ourselves in being solid grinders even when we don’t have our best. All of us by the way do well in CC competition because we thrive on the pressure of our matches.

One other advantage of being comfortable with controlling swing tempo is it makes it easier to right the ship. 

[Range-to-Rounds ratio?]

Shotmaking and creativity do aid in improving scores. Almost everyone introduced to hickory golf show improvement in their modern game as well. There is no better way that I know of to gain new perspectives on course management and improving tempo.

Personally, I almost doubled my games in the 70’s this year. I had rounds in the 70’s with several different sets of irons including five hickory sets. By the way, it is not only me. We have several people that have done the same. There is more than one way to improve and I would not be dismissive.

Incidentally, my best score of the year was a 74 (2 over) from 5500 yards with a set of Jack Whites from the 1920’s. The yardage would be roughly equivalent to 6200 with modern clubs. My best round with modern clubs was 75 at 6,000 yards. 
 

By the way, i take my game very seriously.

[Range-to-Rounds ratio?]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I'll address the 3 comments above that I quoted:

1.  Seems like many courses are changing and the practice area is not free and require either range ball or round purchase to use the facilities.   There are also a lot of courses that don't provide practice bunkers or a short game area.  

2.  Depends on where your issues are.  Would you advocate for a tour level short game and ball striking that results in lots of penalties or multiple shots to get into short game range?   Players need to assess their skills and see what is costing them the most strokes during a round.   I don't think anyone is advocating for just spending time hitting driver on the range but spending time where improvement is needed.   In some ways I favor quality ball striking and functional short game as I generally won't incur lots of penalties with the short game.  This is kind of where I am with my game;  I'm trying to become a better ball striker so I can take the pressure off my short game.  I'm looking to get GIR up so I don't have to rely on my short game as much.  It isn't about how pretty my swing is, but how effective my swing is.   I previously spent lots of time on the short game because I was incurring to many extra strokes in that aspect of my game.  Now my short game is functional and I am working to improve the quality of my ball striking.    There isn't a single answer;  consider the difference between a players that can barely advance the ball 50 yards, has a massive slice, and has achieved a double bogey before they even get into short game range versus the player that shooting upper 80s or the player that is in the upper 70s.   

3.   You repeat the "You learn to score by scoring" isn't as true as it used to be.  Traditionally people built their knowledge/strategy of how to play golf by playing golf.  This is what you are advocating and it works,  but it is a slow time consuming process.    Like it or not,  the game has evolved and there are spelled out strategies on how to play golf better and it can be accomplished from your sofa and not on the course.   These skills are discipline, mental strength, where should I target my tee shot, where to target my approach shot, how to manage recovery shot, and understanding your shot dispersion (which can best be obtained on a range or launch monitor).  

I agree with you that to play better golf, that you need discipline, mental strength, good course management skills and confidence in how you play shots. There is a role for practice but most of the elements you talk about are in my opinion best honed by playing. I personally believe that the game has not “evolved” as much as you make it out to be. Golf is played on grass, lies are not perfect and frequently not flat. Hitting a shot on the range has some value but lacks the consequences of playing and the ability to deal with the pressure that brings.

I like to play well but my first priority is to enjoy myself. What attracts me to the game is the mental challenge in playing, score though important is secondary. There is a place for focused practice, but the thrill is in the hunt. In my opinion, modern golf has become somewhat one dimensional, creativity and shotmaking has devolved in my opinion. That is why I derive so much enjoyment in playing with historical clubs. The side benefit is that my swing tempo is the best it has ever been and I have a greater variety of shots to choose from. That comes from playing, adapting, developing better course management.

Everyone needs to find their own way. What works for me, may not for you. The reason I play golf is the challenge and camaraderie. To me the range is more like work and quite frankly does not give me the satisfaction that playing does.

[Buddies Trip- Prize/Gift]

As Middler suggests, prizes from the courses you have played (towels, ball markers, etc.), especially if they are premium courses. Great memories.

[Range-to-Rounds ratio?]

During the season, I play almost every day. My practice is on the chipping and putting for 10-15 minutes a couple times per week. My typical warmup before a round is five or six chips and the same number of putts. Loosens me up and gets the green speed. If going on the road to play one of the tough Clublink courses, I double the warmup shots and May hit a few drives on the range to loosen up.

It’s I have aged, I would rather play than hit range balls. My older range rat friends get hurt far too often from hitting so many balls. 

[Grass roots effort in changing who buys with a hole in one.]

As stated before, it is a tradition, not a rule and you can interpret it however you want. Depending on the circumstances and how large your group is you decide whether to just buy for your buddies that witnessed it or the extended group you play with, your choice.

I speak from experience in that I have had five myself. I did not buy for anyone I did not know. In my case no one tried to be a jerk and if they were, they can pay for their own drink. I have also enjoyed the hospitality of others that have had their aces.

[Five club challenge..........]

Not hard for me to choose since it is not uncommon for me to play a short set of hickory clubs just for fun. 
 

I would choose the following:

16.6 degree wood, putter, 5 iron (27*), 8 iron (39*), 50 degree wedge.

I find using five or six clubs a great way to develop your shotmaking skills and get away from todays one dimensional thinking.

[Waste of Money]

Another waste of money is buying one of the clubs advertising easy to hit drivers or sand wedges that are sure to get you out of the trap with flashy names. 

[Waste of Money]

I consider any tee that claims that it will give you more yardage to be a waste of money. 

[PSA?: Walking and sitting?]

I am also 67 and have a bad right knee requiring a custom brace. I walk 90% of the time using a Clicgear with the seat attachment. It helps a lot and I play many days in a row. In your initial post you mentioned that it was only when golfing that you had the problem and could still walk several miles. 
 

My question is are you swinging too hard as that puts added stress on the right knee. I dialed things back a bit on my swing and it helps a lot. I also have softer soled shoes as they reduce the stress and pounding. Talk to your primary care physician if I can, some of the advice I gave you came from mine, he is also one of my golf buddies. I plan to keep walking for the health benefits.

[When to (realistically) upgrade your driver?]

I upgrade my driver every one or two years because I want to and usually get the new one as they bring out something new. I play more than half my games with hickory or classic clubs and have so many drivers from the early 1900’s to my recently acquired SIM2 Max.

In my opinion chasing distance is not the best strategy especially as we age. I am now in my late sixties and have learned that keeping the drive in play is more important than distance. A smooth tempo and a club that suits your game breeds confidence. A controlled swing also reduces the chance of injury.

Back to the topic. Get a new one when it suits you, but have realistic expectations. Personally, I would not make a decision based on hitting into a bay. I have a trusted fitter that knows my swing and has helped me for almost twenty years. He and I know what works best for me and can pick the shaft and head due to his knowledge of the shafts properties. For me, I learned that a driver needs to be at least D3 and I prefer a heavier shaft. By the way, the SIM2 Max has been a fairway finder, just what I wanted. I have won a lot of toonies ($2 coin) from guys chasing distance.

I like nice shiny toys like anyone else and it is fun with a new toy whether it is hickory, classic steel or modern.