USGA coming after Phil & Bryson

[LICC]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:28 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Designers have created the issue of longer courses because that’s their perception of where design is going based off a perceived increase in distance that may or may not be there. Now that they created the problem they want the ruling bodies to save them. 

I haven’t seen it anywhere but I would be surprised at the courses that are deemed short of the scores have gone down at those events. Riviera is a perfect example of a shorter course that has withstood the distance game
 

So much for thinking Riviera is withstanding low scores. The leader is at -19 after the third round. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by LICC

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, LICC said:

So much for thinking Riviera is withstanding low scores. The leader is at -19 after the third round. 

One historic week proves nothing. Not to mention if it’s easily gettable for long hitters Rahm wouldn’t have barely made the cut, Finau wouldn’t be near the back of the pack with him and Brooks and DJ wouldn’t be sitting home on the weekend.

[Bobbers]

On 10/22/2021 at 10:17 AM, LICC said:

It's not that I just want to argue. I don't think your belief is correct. See this from a 2017 analysis from Adam Chandler Crawford:

... the scoring average in the 1960s (the height of Palmer and Player and the rise of Nicklaus),right at 275. (These numbers are taken only from 72-hole stroke play events.)

In the '70s it dropped slightly to 274.3, but that makes sense because there weren't many significant changes to the game. The '60s saw the Ping Karsten putter that revolutionized how putters would be made for the next 50 plus years, but that was the major innovation of the decade.

However, by the late 1980s, the scoring average had dropped to 273.1, over a full shot lower. The '80s was also the time when we see the first metal woods arrive on tour (Ron Streck was the first player to use a metal wood in a PGA Tour event).

The next leap is much bigger. By the end of the '90s, we see the scoring average drop nearly two full shots to 271.4. The '90s brought huge leaps in technology with the Callaway Big Bertha driver, the Titleist Professional golf ball, Adams Tight Lies and Taylormade Rescue clubs -- the advent of titanium and more graphite.

As the technology changed in the '90s and players began to place new equipment in their bags, the scoring average for the 2000s dipped below 270 for the first time and came in at 269.9. If you're following along, you'll notice that over five full shots since the 1960s. When you're talking about almost 450 tournaments per decade, that's a huge drop.

I've been watching professional golf since the 1960's, the early 60's.  At that time George Archer was the tallest golfer I recall and was able to play largely because he had arms long enough to be able to use essentially standard equipment.  I used to enjoy the Craig Stadler's, the Roger Maltby's, the Ray Floyd's, etc. of those bygone days.  "Conditioning" didn't exist.   Technology was relatively stagnant.  To be able to work on a set of woods you had to be able to "whip" a ferrule...  A drop of "five full shots" in that period of time isn't, in my opinion, solely attributable to technology.  Simply look at the athletic ability of today's competitive golfer, when they started playing, the lessons, the support staff that surrounds most of these folks; it's something that's helped scores improve.

If drivers are limited to 46 inches what's to stop them from 44 inches, 43 inches?  Is the goal of the governing bodies to see scores stay at current levels?  Drop no more than 1 additional stroke?  Increase by .75 strokes per tournament?

I don't see how any rule changes, without a stated performance goal in place at the inception of the discussion, are ultimately useful.

[RollingGreens]

You can roll back whatever you want but it doesn’t change the ability to push the body to its limits. Bigger, faster, stronger. It will push the limits of distance but it may not always mean scoring or wins. Perfect example was last week with sahith, risk reward, they cut the grass low for a tight lie and his ball rolled through the green and OB. Create more risk reward situations where you are truely penalized scoring if you miss. 

[LICC]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

One historic week proves nothing. Not to mention if it’s easily gettable for long hitters Rahm wouldn’t have barely made the cut, Finau wouldn’t be near the back of the pack with him and Brooks and DJ wouldn’t be sitting home on the weekend.

This is just about every week on Tour now. It proves exactly what we are seeing. 
The top of the leaderboard is filled with big hitters. 

[LICC]

1 hour ago, Bobbers said:

I've been watching professional golf since the 1960's, the early 60's.  At that time George Archer was the tallest golfer I recall and was able to play largely because he had arms long enough to be able to use essentially standard equipment.  I used to enjoy the Craig Stadler's, the Roger Maltby's, the Ray Floyd's, etc. of those bygone days.  "Conditioning" didn't exist.   Technology was relatively stagnant.  To be able to work on a set of woods you had to be able to "whip" a ferrule...  A drop of "five full shots" in that period of time isn't, in my opinion, solely attributable to technology.  Simply look at the athletic ability of today's competitive golfer, when they started playing, the lessons, the support staff that surrounds most of these folks; it's something that's helped scores improve.

 

Marginally. Increases in driving distances have been directly correlated to advances in equipment technology, looking back decades. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

40 minutes ago, LICC said:

This is just about every week on Tour now. It proves exactly what we are seeing. 
The top of the leaderboard is filled with big hitters. 

You love to move the goal posts to try and prove your point. You specifically called out a post about Riviera and how it’s not holding up and i commented it’s an historic week at this course. Now you want to talk about every week. The post tour championship and early part of the new year courses typically are low scoring events. Riviera usually isn’t.

Lets see if your thoughts about every week hold up over the rest of the season 

[RollingGreens]

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.y2021.html

take a look at the driving stats. Their is a wide variety of winners and quality players up and down the list. The bottom of the list would have a lot of names we didn’t know if distance dictated wins. Never would have guessed that Morikawa and Horschel would both be in the 100s

[LICC]

53 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You love to move the goal posts to try and prove your point. You specifically called out a post about Riviera and how it’s not holding up and i commented it’s an historic week at this course. Now you want to talk about every week. The post tour championship and early part of the new year courses typically are low scoring events. Riviera usually isn’t.

Lets see if your thoughts about every week hold up over the rest of the season 

And you picking a year with massively bad weather and 35 mph winds as an example wasn’t an outlier?  Ok …

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 minutes ago, LICC said:

And you picking a year with massively bad weather and 35 mph winds as an example wasn’t an outlier?  Ok …

I’ve always said that riviera doesn’t yield low scoring. -15 or lower is typically there and even if someone like DJ who won with. -17 the rest of the field was -12 or worse.

Riviera is a course that holds up over time and this week is an historic week.

But you keep doing you and I’ll be moving on as usual from further engaging with you here.

[LICC]

49 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve always said that riviera doesn’t yield low scoring. -15 or lower is typically there and even if someone like DJ who won with. -17 the rest of the field was -12 or worse.

Riviera is a course that holds up over time and this week is an historic week.

But you keep doing you and I’ll be moving on as usual from further engaging with you here.

In the last 15 years, a score in the 260s has won 7 times. 

[Bobbers]

Between 1991 and 2002 John Daly was the longest driver on the PGA tour for all but one year.  John won a total of 5 tournaments.  And who can forget Robert Garrigus, Hank Keuhne, Scott Hend, J.B. Holmes, et. al?