Chipping Technique

[Thisway84]

3 minutes ago, billybogey said:

K.I.S.S.!! Take me awhile to learn. 

But, is paying off as Feet are closer to-gether, Weight on Left Foot, Opened Stance, Moved hands Down on Shaft.

Cleared "Head" & Swing Back & Thru.

Plus; really enjoy hitting "Flop Shot" as "Tick's Off" Young Guns. Big Time!!

Yippee!!

 

When in doubt, open 'er up and swing hard!

[Thisway84]

Chipping is probably the #2 most mental part of the game aside from putting. The last few rounds I have been dialing in my intention and target. I have been seeing nice results through doing some journaling and keeping up with this thread. I have driven my average distance from 23ft to 14ft and my putting make conversion has gone from 36% to 44% which are all huge gains. I have never been a big journaler. I always felt as if there was no point when your swing thoughts and analysis in your head are solid. I'm seeing the benefit of some of that practice though. Thanks again for all the insight, I've really been enjoying the dialogue.

[Mike in Sarasota]

I was very good around the greens for many years, as I got older it declined and it bugged the s… out of me, then I tried cross handed from 15 yards and in and I am now “back” and hole  about 1 a week.  Try left hand low and focus on the right hand.

[cnosil]

52 minutes ago, Thisway84 said:

Chipping is probably the #2 most mental part of the game aside from putting.  The last few rounds I have been dialing in my intention and target.

What do you mean it is the most mental part of the game?     My  studies about course management; specifically DECADE, I think golf become less mental and is more the ability to actually execute the shot.  Golf is really about getting ride of your mental discussions and being able to commit which applies equally to every shot in golf.  I view your intention and target as simply a calculation and not a mental exercise.   Basically make a decision, commit to the decision, and live with the results.   I really liked what Bernhard Langer said during an interview that the mental part of golf is a myth.  

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/bernard-langer-golf-90-percent-mental-myth

 

[Thisway84]

53 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What do you mean it is the most mental part of the game?     My  studies about course management; specifically DECADE, I think golf become less mental and is more the ability to actually execute the shot.  Golf is really about getting ride of your mental discussions and being able to commit which applies equally to every shot in golf.  I view your intention and target as simply a calculation and not a mental exercise.   Basically make a decision, commit to the decision, and live with the results.   I really liked what Bernhard Langer said during an interview that the mental part of golf is a myth.  

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/bernard-langer-golf-90-percent-mental-myth

 

I certainly agree that golf is nowhere near 90% mental. I also agree that intent and target is part of the calculation. I feel the mental side of things come in after you have committed. The main thing that can make you mess up the shot is if you let the intrusive thoughts in as you are standing over the ball. As a single digit handicaper, I know I have a lot of shots in my bag to make things happen. When I do duff the ball or skull it, it is typically due to a mental lapse that takes me out of my commitment. If I hit the ball well and just miss my target, then that is typically a miscalculation or I don't have the skill to match my intent.

In general, I don't feel the mental game has a huge impact off the tee or on the approach unless you are someone who struggles with swing thoughts. Just grip it and rip it, then it's onto the next shot wherever that may be. Chipping and putting have more of a mental aspect because you are trying to hit an increasingly smaller target which you are not looking at when addressing the ball. The "mental game" comes into play for me as a tool to clear my head and simply let my body do what I have trained it to do. I am not someone who thinks if I visualize the ball going into the cup then my brainpower will make it happen. It is all a fine balance that I have been trying to grow in and will continue to do so.

[cnosil]

39 minutes ago, Thisway84 said:

In general, I don't feel the mental game has a huge impact off the tee or on the approach unless you are someone who struggles with swing thoughts. Just grip it and rip it, then it's onto the next shot wherever that may be. Chipping and putting have more of a mental aspect because you are trying to hit an increasingly smaller target which you are not looking at when addressing the ball. 

I personally disagree a bit with your assessment.   I look at my target when I am addressing tee and approach shots.   The degree of error for face at impact is about 1* for short putts and 300 yard tee shots.   Tee shot, approach shot, chip, or putt pick a target, setup, and them make your stroke basically the same. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Don Martin Up-N-In chipper.  Circa late 1950s or early 1960s.  I think it is bronze.  Flat face, about 25 degree loft ??  I know, most golfers don't want to add a club, they want a versatile wedge.  But look at your 14 clubs and see which one you use the least, and do you adjust your bag to different courses?  I think many golfers can drop a long iron or hybrid or fairway.  Or adjust what loft wedges you carry if you don't need one to chip from near or on the fringe. Or look at  Stan Thompson of Ginty fame, also made a chipper called Closup, which I have also, but I think it is for longer chip shots compared to the Don Martin.  Ping just came out with a chipper too. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

3 hours ago, Mike in Sarasota said:

I was very good around the greens for many years, as I got older it declined and it bugged the s… out of me, then I tried cross handed from 15 yards and in and I am now “back” and hole  about 1 a week.  Try left hand low and focus on the right hand.

Brian Harman, the 19 yr old Thai gal who won a few weeks ago on the LPGA, both use the same cross handed that I do.  It took a while to figure out exatly what and how to use the front low hand, see videos of those 2, it is similar to mine, for putting mostly, but can be good chipping too. 

[Thisway84]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I personally disagree a bit with your assessment.   I look at my target when I am addressing tee and approach shots.   The degree of error for face at impact is about 1* for short putts and 300 yard tee shots.   Tee shot, approach shot, chip, or putt pick a target, setup, and them make your stroke basically the same. 

I totally get that. This is what makes this game so awesome. So many schools of thought that are then applied differently 100x's over all to get a white ball in a round hole...

I was struggling with my driver earlier this year taking a similar approach but found I was selecting targets and shot shapes that I had no business creating. I ditched that and simply went with the mentality to aim middle of the fairway and swing hard. Previously I would consistently shut the face down and end up with a long iron into the hole or in the trees. Today I only hit 4/14 fairways but averaged 245yds off the tee and had shots into the green on 9/10 that I "missed" averaging 140yds to the pin. I always aim middle of fairway on tee shots and middle of green on approaches. So for myself, the intentionality and targeting ramps up a bit for chipping and putting. This is in a way where this thread was born from as I realized I needed a place to gather some insights and different perspectives on handling green-side chipping.

And you know what? Next month I will probably see lots of flaws in this current approach and shift my mindset in a different direction. Such is the game of golf...

[Glennyboy]

Good question although you’re asking for a slew of answers that will kind of deviate from it 

just gonna assume the conditions are the most standard default as can be so both pins from the same spot with it being level to the green and both pins not being tucked to the edges and having at least 5-6 paces. Greens being friendly speed around 9 on a stimp with avg receptiveness. And obviously no obstruction or hazard between ball and green.
 

Since these call for relatively default shots I assume you just want what changes we make to these standard default shots. One presumably will be of a lower flighted and the other more of a higher apex variety. I haven’t read through all the replies and may be not the most chosen method but in terms of pre shot setup I would not change a thing. 
 

My setup will be identical in terms of having a narrow stance (maybe a clubs width apart), weight forward but more like shifting your weight forward to feel like your shoulders are level, ball position is the same with mine being maybe slightly forward of center (it could be middle but I feel like my eyes are over my left heel so it seems forward), and have a slightly weak grip on left hand along with a relaxed feel on my left wrist/elbow area. 
 

From there it’s for me all about the shot I’m trying to hit. The further pin I’ll have more of a quicker tempo back and through or a quick one two and have a feel the butt end of the club staying on the left hip. 
 

the closer pin I’ll have more of a deliberate tempo with a slower tempo of a Ooonnee Twwwooo to have time to have the face square up and feel like the butt end of the club finish pointing at my right toe. Then it’s all about practicing and getting your feels and distance down. 
 

You can use whatever club you feel most comfortable with. I prefer to use the same club. I've always use just one club and can manipulate the face at impact to do what’s needed. Easier to just have one setup and have multiple shots with it then a whole slew of clubs with multiple setups that leads to inconsistencies. If they are on the same spot with just the pin being different I think it’s more detrimental having two different setups. 

oh and I have the face just slightly open to expose just a tad of bounce so I’m not pointing the leading edge to sharply on both type of shots. I use a wedgeworks T grind 60° so pretty unforgiving in terms of bounce but I chip and pitch with the leading edge and don’t like using the bounce to chip. 

 

 

[Snowmonkeys1310]

On 9/12/2023 at 11:14 AM, Thisway84 said:

I am interested in hearing how people set up for their greenside chipping. Obviously this shot creation is extremely variable based on lie, pin placement, and slope of the green.

Too long just get to the point: What are your go to setups for greenside chipping in these two scenarios assuming you have an ideal lie. 1) Short pin with a firm green sloping away. 2) Long pin with a firm green sloping away.

Background: I have been working hard at improving my game this summer. In the spring my focus was on my putting, in August I found a great deal of consistency with my Driver and at the end of August I finally broke 80 for the first time since college. When I sent my instructor my arccos breakdown from this round, he pointed out that I was 2/9 on up and downs and that with a little focus there, the 79 that I shot could easily have been a 75. Looking more deeply into my up and downs over my last six rounds, I am 7/31 at a 22% success rate. Doing some digging at an 8 handicap, I should be closer to a 36-40% mark.

When reflecting on my chipping, I pretty much have two go to setups. 1) open stance 58 degree face opened up weight on my front foot / typically used when I need to go over a bunker or the green is running away. 2) open stance 56 degree face shut down hands pushed forward weight on my front foot for everything else... Honestly I use my second setup for 75% of cases. I am finding that second setup is leading to more of a stabbing action at the ball. I typically play on courses that have firm quick greens and my chips are ending up 20+ feet away which does not give me much of a shot at the up and down.

This brings me back to my question at the top: What are your go to setups for greenside chipping in these two scenarios assuming you have an ideal lie. 1) Short pin with a firm green sloping away. 2) Long pin with a firm green sloping away.

Looking forward to any insight!

It's important to be cognizant of which chips you can be aggressive with and which ones you can't. If you combine a short-sided chip with a green that's sloping away an up-and-down should be considered a huge win. Even for a scratch golfer. 

Setting yourself up on the proper side of the green ("missing smart") is a lot of this battle. Pros at all levels are masters at setting themselves up for shots that are easier to execute. They hunt for uphill putts and chips and you should too. Having more birdie putts is the undoubted best way to drop your scores. You're way better off with a 40-foot birdie putt than you are with a short-sided, downhill chip.

1. Short pin with a firm green sloping away
Since you mentioned "an ideal lie" in your post, that would be be in the fringe or the fairway with nothing in front.

In that scenario I'm either putting or taking my best tight lie wedge and trying to land the ball just short of the green and let it trickle on. It all depends on how much slope there is, how much green you're working with, how far off the green you are , etc. For the short one to just trickle on you're just trying to let the ball ride up the wedge face. Don't get "wristy" with it unless you're skilled at that sort of thing.

Just make sure that you put yourself in position to make a bogey at worst. Play percentages on these shots. As a right-handed golfer I prefer uphill putts that break right-to-left. Know your game and play to your strengths.

2. Long pin with a firm green sloping away
This really depends on so many things. Is it a slope that if you catch it the ball gets to the hole? If so you'll want something with some spin.

Let's say the green is 30 yards long sloping away. You're just off the front and the pin is a couple yards from the back of the green. Assuming your fringe is capable of holding a ball that rolls onto it, you should be able to use as a bit of a backstop. You do not want to have a downhill putt after a greenside chip for par, especially if you've got a lot of green to work with. Getting the ball a yard or two beyond the hole should (1) give you a preview of what the comeback putt will do, and (2) give them a chance to go in.
 

[CorporateGolfRat]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:47 AM, Snowmonkeys1310 said:

It's important to be cognizant of which chips you can be aggressive with and which ones you can't. If you combine a short-sided chip with a green that's sloping away an up-and-down should be considered a huge win. Even for a scratch golfer. 

Setting yourself up on the proper side of the green ("missing smart") is a lot of this battle. Pros at all levels are masters at setting themselves up for shots that are easier to execute. They hunt for uphill putts and chips and you should too. Having more birdie putts is the undoubted best way to drop your scores. You're way better off with a 40-foot birdie putt than you are with a short-sided, downhill chip.

1. Short pin with a firm green sloping away
Since you mentioned "an ideal lie" in your post, that would be be in the fringe or the fairway with nothing in front.

In that scenario I'm either putting or taking my best tight lie wedge and trying to land the ball just short of the green and let it trickle on. It all depends on how much slope there is, how much green you're working with, how far off the green you are , etc. For the short one to just trickle on you're just trying to let the ball ride up the wedge face. Don't get "wristy" with it unless you're skilled at that sort of thing.

Just make sure that you put yourself in position to make a bogey at worst. Play percentages on these shots. As a right-handed golfer I prefer uphill putts that break right-to-left. Know your game and play to your strengths.

2. Long pin with a firm green sloping away
This really depends on so many things. Is it a slope that if you catch it the ball gets to the hole? If so you'll want something with some spin.

Let's say the green is 30 yards long sloping away. You're just off the front and the pin is a couple yards from the back of the green. Assuming your fringe is capable of holding a ball that rolls onto it, you should be able to use as a bit of a backstop. You do not want to have a downhill putt after a greenside chip for par, especially if you've got a lot of green to work with. Getting the ball a yard or two beyond the hole should (1) give you a preview of what the comeback putt will do, and (2) give them a chance to go in.
 

I need to think about this more. I am very aware of where to miss on the green (basically shooting center of green 80% of the time on approach). But when I miss the green I have been struggling so much with my wedges... I seriously have been losing 3-4 strokes a round on a chunky chip or flier for the mid range chips, 20-30 yards. I have some really good distance and control off the tee but being creative around greens has always been a struggle in my golf journey. 

I think I am understanding of the choice to be aggressive when I can but even then, I lack the confidence to make the shots. Does anyone have any tips on building this? I practice short game about 3x more in the summer so it gets slightly better but I think I need to get back to the basics on my chipping motion. 

In the scenario 2. above lets say you have a slight uphill tight, but clean, lie. What is the thought in the swing to get more spin? I would think increase your angle of attack and catch it clean, but should I be focusing more on using the bounce or taking my hands out of it?? This is where my mind wanders too far while I think something more "stock" would do the trick. 

Edited February 14 by CorporateGolfRat

[StrokerAce]

don't drag me on this, I know it's a video from youtube but it's short and informative with a tour pro.

Dan Grieve is one of the best short game teachers out there and he was with Morikawa in HI and they went over a few quick things.

Some things I thought were helpful:
* keep your head high/don't change your level i.e. moving down then up.
* lead wrist position is key in bunker
* there is no "right" stance, do what makes sense and works for you - closed, open, square
* wet sand/tight lie in bunker steep, square face and swing left

[Haro]

I try to make Greenside chipping feel much like putting   Methods that work for me

1 chip and Roll. Take a 6 iron look for a spot about 6 feet in from of the ball to land and roll the rest of the way to the hole. It’s a thumbs and wristy stroke that works on uncomplicated flat green that I have  green to work with 

2 LW  It’s art for this wedge. Generally aim at the hole and use the “bounce”.  Can come out different ways. Can use the leading edge and belly   Can use the toe and “ draw” chip. 
For Greenside soft chips I like having shaft lean  I like resting my hand  against my thigh and tapping the chipper with my other hand to co ordinate the action 

Edited April 4 by Haro