[New course strategy change tees?]

Interesting stats for shooting a 59.

GIR>fairways.

Make some putts

[Scottie's 2024 Wins -- Do they flatter to decieve?]

2 hours ago, netBogey said:

I got thinking about this when I was watching the TSN+ coverage yesterday morning and one of the announcers said something about how the fact that Scottie's wins were at signature events is "more impressive." 

I'm not trying to say that Scottie doesn't deserve the praise that he's gotten.  He's far and away the best player of the year (no one is close).  What I'm saying is that I'm personally not more impressed with beating 70 people than 150.  That's what I've always thought the Masters was the least impressive of the majors. 

I think if the 4 events he played were full field he probably wouldn't have won all of them.

 

You’re diminishing how good Scottie is. The guy finishes in the top 10 about 55% of the events he has made the cut in. He rarely misses a cut and has multiple wins per season since the 2022-2022 season.

The guy is a winner and it’s far more impressive when you are beating the best players in an elevated event over a full field that may have less higher ranked players. Even if those events were full field he wins those still. A full field event is filled with guys ranked farther outside the top 50, Monday qualifiers. Sponsor exemptions. A full field event isn’t more impressive than an elevated event

[Pace of play]

4-4.5 hours is a normal pace of play. There’s not much to do to have the pace of play for the course to be faster than that. Unless the course spreads tee times way out which I doubt would be beneficial to the course 

[3rd Category of courses?]

2 hours ago, rhaze91 said:

I have no issue with people paying what they are asking and what they charge.  If people pay it and they fill the sheet so be it.  I’m just saying to be evaluated as a “public” course  should there be a different standard.  The cost they charge allows them as a better course to create a much better experience, much better course conditions and such.  It allows for renovations and a lot of money to improve the course over time with re-design and such.  Some really great muni’s that are affordable yet are great courses, Bethpage, memorial park in Houston come to mind. Those are much more “public”. 

To say Pebble is true public yes, anyone in public can play for the price. However two night min stay, green fees and all other costs associated with traveling brings that 1 round of golf to probably $4000.  Now I don’t begrudge people for paying that.  I just think when a list comes out on what is a top public course Pebble, Pinehurst, Bandon should be evaluated on a different scale that Bethpage, Memorial Park, Landmand in Nebraska, Lawsonia, etc….

I guess when I think of public it’s a day to day course or even a few times a year course.  Not a once in a lifetime course.

 

They are resort courses. That attract a higher end client. They aren’t exclusive in the same way that a private club is. Again Pinehurst is alot more than #2. There are 8 other courses at the resort and they are less expensive. So Pinehurst is a true public resort with varying degrees of courses and fees. 
 

Theres no need to designate some places differently than the rest because of price or that the people who can play there is limited by their financial status.

I have courses near me that are well over $100 and are public. Yet there are golfers who choose not to play them because of the coast. Are they now some level of upscale course? I have a semi private course about 5 mins from where I live that’s about a quarter of the price of the public courses I play.

Your last statement sums it up for me and that is a perception issue based on cost and affordability. Rather than acknowledging that that they are still accessible to the public and doesn’t require a member to get access. 

Edit: what does having a different category of course category solve?

[I accidentally unlocked how to generate leg power and it's sorted my swing tempo in the process]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I am not stating anything either way.   If you watched the video I posted he hits shots using various approaches/techniques to see how they compare.   Ridyard has been showing comparisons between the shallow approach taught by people like Parker MacLaughlin and the steep approach taught by Joseph Mayo in many of his videos. 

You can both continue going back and forth with your opinions and examples to prove yourself correct..    

 

Ridyards videos are about chipping as were the two posted by mission man after that. As we see in those the pressure to the trail side doesn’t really happen. It’s pressure on lead leg and no movement to trail foot.

Pitches are a longer swing with some rotation. As GG says you want the rotation to match the swing. So there will be some rotation with a pitch, not as much as a full shot. This will cause some pressure shift to the trail side just because some of the body and of course the club moving that way, very similar to how Porzak talks about his preferred way for pressure to move which comes from the upper body rotating.

It’s far less than a full swing and for many it’s not “forced” like in a full swing 

[Golftec iron fitting]

3 hours ago, KC Golf said:

I have never tried a Golftec fitting,  After two lacklustre OEM fittings, I may give this a shot.

Go to a trusted independent fitter or find an oem whose rep or demo staff have good reputations. Titleist is using very qualified fitters who are also teaching pros.

An independent fitter usually isn’t trying to make a sale and has a lot more experience.

The fitter makes or breaks the fitting. Then it’s about how well the golfer communicates with the fitter

i personally would never use golftec for a fitting or lessons 

[Do you find really low scores in a tournament interesting or boring?]

33 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

At those yardages and conditions that are very playable to the typical recreational golfer, the top pros would threaten 55-56 much of the time!

I play on a tour with about 40 club professionals and NCAA college golf coaches, and two guys who used to play on what is now the Korn Ferry Tour (I think it was the Hogan or Nike Tour when these guys were playing it).  These guys are all in the “Open” (e.g. - scratch) Division; I play in the Senior Net Division. However, I have been paired with both of the former professional tour golfers, who are now in their 60s, and I can assure you that 99.999% of amateur golfers would not be able to beat these guys, yet both of them still carry zero to plus handicap indexes. The guys playing on ANY of the professional golf tours are better than these two guys by a significant margin, so there’s no way that these so-called “plus-handicap amateurs” could compete with KFT or PGA Tour (or DP World Tour) players on anywhere near a consistent basis. Sure, lightning may strike once in a decade and these amateurs might shoot 66 or 67 on a difficult track, but to compete on the professional tours, you need to do that in about 75% or more of your rounds to be even somewhat competitive.

They couldn’t compete with mid of the road lpga golfers. I have friends who play with some on a periodic basis. In stays between -1 to +1 and gets beat by 10 shots from the same tees and he’s 300+ off the tee

[3rd Category of courses?]

On 6/16/2024 at 2:15 PM, rhaze91 said:

I guess I’m more trying to say they shouldn’t be considered or evaluated for comparison to a true public course.  To call it public is technically true, but let’s be real it’s not available as they have created a pricing structure that makes it impossible for most of the public.

It’s public because it’s open to everyone, has nothing to do with cost or ones means.

You can call it high end public or whatever but it’s not different than any other consumer product where there’s low end and high end. Torrey is one price for non residents which is significantly higher than it is for residents. Still public. 
 

There are watches that cost more than some cars, there’s watches that are very affordable. Everyone is free to buy what fits their budgets. 
 

But let’s not forget Pinehurst has multiple courses, number two is the most popular because if it’s history, but to many it’s not even the best one on the resort 

[3rd Category of courses?]

On 6/16/2024 at 1:45 PM, goaliedad30 said:

I guess what I don't understand is that even with their current pricing models, the tee sheets at Pebble, Pinehurst, Bandon, et al are essentially fully packed, seven days a week. That means to me that there seem to be sufficient people who can afford it that it's "accessible". It may not be accessible to every golfer on the planet, but there sure are enough that are playing there.

Compare that to Augusta where no amount of money will guarantee you access.

Of course they are.
 

1) they are bucket list courses and there are plenty of people who will take a once in a lifetime trip to play them 

2) there are plenty of people on this country that have the money to play them. Not sure why this is a surprise to anybody, except for those who despise those who have worked hard for their success and are enjoying the fruits of their labor. We all should be striving to be as successful as possible. I’ll leave it there to not go down what some may consider political talk

3) their prestige and demand allow for those prices. It’s not different than any other luxuries item or hobby. There are all kinds of levels within hobbies. 

 

[Special Exemption for TW's]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

If this is fact, we may need to re-think our position on the ball rollback.  Jacked balls would increase the odds of reaching more par 4's off the tee and even get the shortest hitters onto par 5's in two.  Let the quest for 54 begin.

Well they want that with the current equipment which I’m good with.

Fast and firm fairways, non penalizing rough all make for lower scores. Shorter courses benefit the shorter hitters and longer courses penalize them. Strokes gained points this out. The tour has a good mixture of both right now.

Plus they don’t utilize the full length of the courses with tee boxes usually forward most days. I’m good with keeping things where they are at

[I accidentally unlocked how to generate leg power and it's sorted my swing tempo in the process]

9 hours ago, cnosil said:

I am thinking the answer to this question will be revealed soon.  Based on my quick watch there seems to be little lateral pressure shifting and mostly vertical forces.    I expect James to do a followup video with a breakdown of the data captured from the pressure plates.

 

 

The amount pressure shift in a pitch shot is very small. Most good players will start with about a 60/40 lead side setup. In the pitch shot the trial side will get to somewhere around 55% before moving back to the lead side.

in a regular swing it will be around 70% on the trail side in the takeaway

[Is there really an anti-left driver set up?]

9 hours ago, aguybadatgolf said:

I may have been misunderstanding my coach but my takeaway was I wasn’t releasing my hands at impact causing the push to sneak in. I took that as I need to flip my hands, sounds like not lol. Thanks for the feedback!

Flipping the hands is what’s causing the left shots. If you’re not closing the face there is a reason somewhere in the swing causing that. More than likely you are running out of room in the downswing and shaft is getting steep and you have to slow down to let the arms and hands catchup and the face is open.

what happens at and just before impact is a result for something earlier in the swing and is a symptom not a fault. Address the fault

[What was it like watching Tiger in his prime?]

1 hour ago, Sheep said:

Excellent question. Had the privileges of following Tiger around during one of his lowest rounds as a pro at the 1999 Buick Invitational. It was the first time I'd seen him play and it was a surreal experience. The way he walked / stalked around the course was wild to watch. After that day, I came away with a couple of thoughts: one, I wondered why he wasn't winning every week and two, I couldn't see how his playing partners could even concentrate (with all the crowd movements, noise).

I volunteered at several of his events at congressional. There was a sea of people following him on the range then to the first hole and all around the course. It was 10-20 people deep and somewhere between 25-50 people long if not more.

i had the chance to follow him, Freddie, Phil for a practice round at the presidents cup at rtj. The sound off his clubs is like no other pro. I’ve spent hours watching pros at congressional hit balls on the range before practice rounds and tournament rounds and their contact and the sound is unreal, but his is even different from theirs

[DeChambeau doesn't hit his 8 iron 200 yards]

1 hour ago, Haro said:

Take home message for  me  is when the TV announcer says he hit his 8 iron X yards, its could be a loft of 7 or 6 iron.  
my other take message is that there is no standard loft that correspond to the Number on the iron 

 

What nobody knows is how much he’s delofting at impact or any pro for that matter. They could say Rory is hitting his 8i and whatever distance it goes for that shot but he could have a loft of a 6i at impact.

unlike most amateurs whose 8i has the loft of a 9i, pw or other wedge at impact

[Special Exemption for TW's]

2 hours ago, Micah T said:

I think a lot of us on here have forgotten that the PGA Tour is an entertainment product that has to be sold. It is in the tours best interest to have the biggest name ever in the sport, and arguably the biggest name in athletics ever, in the field whenever possible. The R&A and USGA’s job is to protect the history/legacy/integrity of the game, not the pga tour. It exists because they posses a sellable product, and like any other business they made a move to protect their brand. I think people forget that outside of the Olympics (and really this is debatable too) sport is an entertainment business, just like music and movies.

Exactly on many levels. How they setup courses is there to entertain their viewers. They want longer drives and lower scores. Their viewership, sponsors and partners do too. The PGA of America also does. 
 

 

[Scottie's 2024 Wins -- Do they flatter to decieve?]

The consistency in how Scottie performs is what makes him good, so it doesn’t matter if the other top pros aren’t consistent which btw happens every year for the top pros. They have ups and downs.

also the players has a lot more than 80 players. So it’s a full field event with a strong field.

Then let’s add in that someone of Scottie’s standing on the tour gets to pick his tournaments that meet his schedule so he’s only going to play in the majors, the elevated events and a few others. You’re not going to see him at smaller tournaments. 
 

Winning on the of a tour any week is hard to do, all wins are flattering and what Scottie is doing is on a level not seen very often on tour

[Comparing Current Clubs to Older Clubs]

16 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

In 1982 the new Ping Eye 2 PW was 49 or 50 degrees.  My 2018 model of the I 500, the PW is 44 or 45 loft.  Anybody know where to find lofts of 1960s and 1970s Macgregor and Wilsons?  Were PW lofts even higher than 50 when Arnie vs Jack was the weekly battle?

in the 60s and 70s pw was 52° it moved to 50° in the 80s but clubs were also starting to change then. In the 90s as more club options became available pw moved to 48°.

The i500 is a hollow body players distance club. It’s a completely different design than clubs from early 2000s and older. Comparing lofts between a blade and this type of club is nearly pointless. The design for the hollow body is going to be far less spin than an mb. Even between the i500 and i210 on similar strikes I saw a 500 rpm difference in spin and a couple degrees difference in launch.

It would be no different than comparing the i500 to the Titleist T100, their CB and MB lofts. They are different designs and thus lofts have to be different to account for the launch and spin

[What/How Did You Practice Today?]

41 minutes ago, PrismFlopper said:

So I saw a clip the other day of mickelson saying if you hit off a tee that the ball goes 5 yard further. Yes Ik I’m nowhere near his level but my habit for lack of a better term is that anytime I hit a wedge off the tee like PW,GW,SW I tend to hit it WAYYY SHORT. the only thing I can think is it’s getting way more spin and height causing it to go short. Nylons have ideas or can help explain that to me. I have this most often with par 3s and I think that causing some of my lost shots. Maybe I’m teeing it a little bit cause me t get under it… idk. 

How far above then ground is your ball when it’s on a tee?

[Grip Strength Thru The Bag]

For all full swing and partial swings the grip is the same throughout the bag. The grip changes for chips

An interesting not that comes up in lots of threads about changing grips for certain clubs.

Weakening grip to fix a draw is a common misperception for what needs to change just like strengthening a grip is to fix a slice

Had an high level instructor tell me that the person who had me weaken my grip because of my draws and pulls was giving bad advice. The issue was my swing and how I come to far from the inside.

Interesting thing is this came up recently in a thread on wrx and Monte confirmed the samething about it being typical and incorrect things  people do to fix draws.

[Comparing Current Clubs to Older Clubs]

1 hour ago, Gripit said:

I don't look for or especially like the new stronger lofted irons being sold today. 

Lofts have been getting stronger since the 60s it’s not a new thing. There are plenty of clubs that have the same loft and number stamped on them that haven’t changed since the 80s. Pretty much every players type iron has the same loft today as it did in the 80s or 90s.

The stronger lofts you are talking about are in newer style of clubs. Players distance (p790 from tm, i5xx from ping) as examples, along with those in the gi/sgi. Then best part of golf is there are sets of clubs for everyone regardless of loft and number stamped on the iron.

[Do you find really low scores in a tournament interesting or boring?]

41 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

after thinking about this for a while and reading through the comments, in some way I wish that scores were always really low so that "scratch amateurs" would stop thinking that they would be able to compete against tour players - in any form or fashion.

the "I'm a plus handicap and could beat a KFT player" comments need to stop... really.

Many have a misperception of how good a scratch golfer is. Yes they are good but not that good. There are 3-5 handicaps that think that is good golf. Its night and day between a scratch and a 3-5 handicap 

[DeChambeau doesn't hit his 8 iron 200 yards]

56 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

do stand by my belief that sets with wider gapping would be useful for
lower swing speed players like juniors, seniors, and women.  There simply isn't sufficient demand for them, apparently.  I would definitely buy a 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50° set were it available as a stock item.  

If you look at certain sets typically player distance and gi/sgi there are larger gaps usually in the 5-6° range. Thats because of how these models are designed for launch and spin so closer gaps in loft are beneficial.

57 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I'm coming to believe that it's mostly a cosmetic preference, Ricky.

For you yes. You have a preference to see certain numbers on certain clubs. That setup has existed since the 80s all the way to current clubs that are like the T100, CBs and MBs. This is what many ignore in the debate about lofts. Players type clubs haven’t really changed. It’s the GI clubs that have a complete different design. Not sure why people get hung up on lofts to start with but even more so on clubs that have only been around for about 20 years that are designed to help get more height without being detrimental because the spin isn’t high like in players clubs.

The lofts on players distance, gi/sgi aren’t just cosmetic or random and don’t match the lofts of players style clubs because they don’t have the same characteristics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wedge Setup]

Determine what shots you normally have and what clubs your normally use for them.

One of the reasons that many say high handicaps shouldn’t use a 60 is because they want to full swing it and that is going to lead to a lot of issues that will cause lost strokes. Also it can be tricky to use around the green and  ball that gets on the green sooner and rolls out is going to be more predictable shot for most amateurs.

 

[Counterfeit Smoke Green PVD]

Contact true temper/px and have them tell you.

 

[Do you find really low scores in a tournament interesting or boring?]

What I don’t like is watching the. Best in the world be out to shame because some s*** decided the setup needed to be ridiculous. Theres nothing fun watching Nelly Korda and other top level golfers look bad, same on pga tour.

nor different than watching a pitcher get rocked in the first inning and flounder like a fish out of water because the manager doesn’t want to go to the bullpen too early. Or a blowout in basketball, football or any other sport. That’s not even remotely close to entertaining.

Golf courses don’t offer the same challenge to all golfers. The guy who drives it 200 is playing the course differently than the guy who hits it further even at 230 yards it’s a different course for that golfer than the 200 yard golfer.

Good shots are rewarded with good results not a ball rolling off the green because they are baked out and hard.